Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: PeteCresswell on August 10, 2009, 05:18:42 PM
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212#, exercise paddling, low-wind cruising, a little low-wind surf sailing, a little SUP surfing.
East Coast USA New Jersey junk surf when surfing.
Old guy - probably owns at least a few pair of socks that are older than most "real" SUP surfers.
Just blew $300 on a paddle.
Tried a few Starboard boards at the local dealer: 10 x 34, 12'6" x 30, 12' x 32".
10 x 34 felt the most lively, but I'm told it doesn't have the glide of the 12 x 32.
12 x 32 felt better to me than the 12'6" x 30, so that's probably the one.
But now I'm down to construction.
A big part of that 10 x 34's liveliness seemed tb it's extreme light weight (Starboard's "Technora" construction).
OTOH, browsing the lit, I'm not seeing Technora and universal joint receptacle on the same pages.
Is there something about Starboard's "Technora" construction that rules out use with a sail?
If not, can anybody ballpark the price/weight diff between Starboard's "Technora" and "Wood" constructions for a 12 x 32?
If I seem fixated on Starboard, it is because that's what the local dealer has and I am reluctant to go into something new like this without at least a few demos...
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Hi Pete,
At that weight and for the things you want to do you might try the 11x30 Ultimate Blend. It will feel less stable to you on the initial demo but you won't grow out of it like you might the 12 x 32. I learned on the 12-6 x 30 and have both the 11-2 and the 9-8 now and I'm 260 lbs. The 11-2 is still plenty lively in the surf and cruises well too. I think in a short time the 12 x 32 wouldn't provide the exercise you're looking for...ie: the less stable the better the workout. I also think either the 12-6 x 30 or the 11-2 x 30 are better all around boards for the broad range of things you want to do.
As to construction. I have no experience with the technora...sounds great though. My 12-6 is wood the others are sporttech. The wood does damage easier but is higher performance than the sportech.. I've had to repair a number of dings in my 12-6. The deck and bottom especially. of course I've ridden it hard for 2 years too.
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At a (fairly athletic) 250, the 12'6 got pretty big pretty quick.
At a svelte 230 ( ;-), OK, maybe "svelte" is pushing it) I can put on a dance recital on the 12'6". In the surf, I can move it around, but it is still pretty damn big - I am thinking of going as far down as 10'6".
Still keeping it around though because I know I can toss almost any of my friends on it with a 99% rate of success as far as feeling stable while standing and quickly getting comfortable enough to do a short paddle with me around the lake.
Although - I've noticed that smaller people (<135 lbs), seem to have a lot of trouble keeping the big board going straight. I think it's because the board sits so much higher on the water than intended...so when it's a small first-timer, I put 'em on the big board just for a minute, then go right to the smaller board - which is definitely more tippy, but seems have better tracking for those not fortunate enough to be able to consume half of a cow at dinner.
Of course, for me, the big one tracks just fine and the added water-length means I can make it go faster.
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At that weight and for the things you want to do you might try the 11x30 Ultimate Blend. It will feel less stable to you on the initial demo but you won't grow out of it like you might the 12 x 32.
I just put a hold on the order for the 12 x 30.
Got some kind of SUP event coming up next Saturday and also the local dealer says he has a couple of 11'2" x 30's coming in.
He expresses doubt about 11'2" being suitable - but then again, he's probably got at least fifty pounds on me... maybe 60 or 70.... so he's a true heavyweight.
OTOH based on my experience with the 10 x 34, I'd expect to prefer the 11'2".... as long as it takes a mast foot and the glide is reasonable.
Have you ever put a GPS on one of the long ones vs the 11'2"?
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Although - I've noticed that smaller people (<135 lbs), seem to have a lot of trouble keeping the big board going straight. I think it's because the board sits so much higher on the water than intended...so when it's a small first-timer, I put 'em on the big board just for a minute, then go right to the smaller board - which is definitely more tippy, but seems have better tracking for those not fortunate enough to be able to consume half of a cow at dinner.
FWIW, I tried a few different skegs on the 12 and the 12'6" boards and the effect of more skeg on tracking was noticible. With a 40cm freeride fin both boards tracked so well that I could paddle exclusively on one side or the other.
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At a (fairly athletic) 250... - I am thinking of going as far down as 10'6".
If I were you, I would try to demo a 10 x34 - especially in Technora.
I'm a clueless noob, but the diff between that board and all the others I tried wasn't just a little of this and a little of that... Instead, it was a quantum leap in responsiveness.
OTOH, how well it glides may be another story bc I think any diminishment in glide was masked by it's light weight/responsiveness.
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Pete-
I'm in agreement with ugglysupper and stoneax. I have the 12x32 and at 250 I find it to be a big board. For it's size, I think it's extremely loose (all things relative) and really fun in the surf. It has been great for Florida shin to shoulder high surf. I have the sport tec. Make sure what ever model you get has options for the 2 + 1 set up. I rode mine with the 2 + 1, then switched to a big single for a few weeks, and now I'm back to the 2 + 1.
Your learning curve will progress quickly with a little time on the water. I'm planning on adding a second board in the 10' range, which I never thought I would think about just a few months ago.
I'm not a windsurfer, but for paddling and surfing I think the 11' UB would be plenty of board for you. Remember, I'm almost 40 lbs. heavier then you and I only have about four months experience so take my advise with a grain of salt.
Good luck with it and have fun.
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Hi Pete
I am 200 and have used all of the Starboards you are looking at (I am a Starboard Dealer)
1) - Technora construction is not available with a mast insert option.
2) - The Whopper - 10' x 34" is a great entry board - and surfs smaller waves really well (Ekolu seems to make it handle big ones too).
It's only downfall is that it is not very fast - if you want to race / distance paddle.
3) The Big Easy - 12' x 32" is "faster" than the Whopper - and will sail better.
4) The Cruiser - 12'6" x 30" will be the "fastest" of the 3 and will also sail the best by far because of it's optional "tuttle" box in the center of the board - it comes with a 15" fin for it. It's downfall would be that it will not surf as well as the other 2.
That's my 2¢
It might be hard to try all 3 boards at all 3 styles of use you mentioned - but if you can - give it a shot.
Between the "wood" (which is called Sport Tech by Starboard) and the Technora - the biggest difference is weight vs. cost.
The other construction (the camo one) is called Tuff Skin.
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2) - The Whopper - 10' x 34" is a great entry board - and surfs smaller waves really well (Ekolu seems to make it handle big ones too).
It's only downfall is that it is not very fast - if you want to race / distance paddle.
3) The Big Easy - 12' x 32" is "faster" than the Whopper - and will sail better.
Can you put a number or image on the speed diff between 10 x 34 and Big Easy?
I'm thinking that either way it's sort of the chug-chug feeling - as opposed to really gliding/accellerating with more paddle force.
But if you and somebody of similar fitness are paddling together, does the one on the Big Easy have to keep stopping to wait for the 10-34 paddler to catch up... or is it more a matter of one having to paddle a little more aggressively?
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EastFL, where are you? I'm in Orlando. Hitting waves everywhere from Melbourne to St. Augustine...
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Can you put a number or image on the speed diff between 10 x 34 and Big Easy?
Commenting on my own question...
I think what I'm really obsessing about is something called "Hull Speed". i.e. how fast something will go before it needs to plane to go any faster.
I'm going to put a GPS on the four candidates ASAP.
If I find that hull speed of the 12'6"x30 is, for instance, 3.7 mph and the hull speed of the 10x34 is, for instance, 3.5 mph.... then I'd call that diff insignificant bc I'd never be racing anybody and I do not anticipate doing distance paddling.
OTOH, if hull speed of the 10x34 were 2 mph.... than I'd have to consider that.
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hi Pete
The "hull speed" of the Whopper (10x34) will be MUCH lower than the Cruiser (12x30).
Between the Cruiser and the Big Easy - - it won't be a huge issue.
As an example.
We had our big race on the river here on Sunday.
A new this season SUP'er on his Whopper came in the race for fun.
Finished near the back.
Tried a Naish Glide (12' flat water race board) after the race for about a minute.
Was in the store Monday morning buying a Naish.
Said the Whopper will go to his wife and kids and will be used for surfing behind the boat.
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Unless you're planning on racing, speed isn't that much of a issue. Any of these boards will do for cruising. You should lean toward the board that will do best what is most important to you. If surf is most important than either the 11-2 or 10' If cruising is #1 the 12-6, or the 11-2. I'd only go to the 12' if stability is #1.
Realized I said wood and sporttech earlier...Meant wood (sportech) and tuffskin.... ::). I like the tuffskins for the beating they can take.
Easy...related question...how do you compare the 12-6 to the Naish Glide 12'. I thought they were about the same speed wise.
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^^^ Speed wise they are similar - I do give the edge to the Naish Glide over the Starboard Cruiser.
The big advantage I find for racing is the the Naish Glide tracks much better (goes in a straight line). Due to the less rocker and sharper rails.
The Starboard Pin - is a bit faster in chop over the Naish Glide - due to its boat nose.
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At that weight and for the things you want to do you might try the 11x30 Ultimate Blend. It will feel less stable to you on the initial demo but you won't grow out of it like you might the 12 x 32.
I just put a hold on the order for the 12 x 30.
Got some kind of SUP event coming up next Saturday and also the local dealer says he has a couple of 11'2" x 30's coming in.
He expresses doubt about 11'2" being suitable - but then again, he's probably got at least fifty pounds on me... maybe 60 or 70.... so he's a true heavyweight.
Why don;t you go up the parkway to exit 63. Island Surf and Sail has the PSH boards you can demo up there. 11' PSH should work fine.
OTOH based on my experience with the 10 x 34, I'd expect to prefer the 11'2".... as long as it takes a mast foot and the glide is reasonable.
Have you ever put a GPS on one of the long ones vs the 11'2"?
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Why don;t you go up the parkway to exit 63. Island Surf and Sail has the PSH boards you can demo up there.
I don't want to jerk the Island Surf and Sail guy around - since I intend to buy only from my local guy (Extreme Windsurfing).
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^^^ I applaud your desire to "buy local"
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I'm going to put a GPS on the four candidates ASAP.
Here is what I came up with: two speeds for each board.
- Max sustainable cruising speed
- Flat-out sprint
I sat on each board and used my double-bladed surfski paddle so my lack of SUP skills would not interfere.
Obviously subjective/soft data - especially since the 12'-6" was tested under glassy conditions and the other 3 were done with a 5-8 mph cross wind (I suspect running parallel to the wavelets gives a little advantage)
Board Cruise Sprint
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20' x 18" Surfski 6.6 7.8
145L Sailboard 4.3 4.5
9'6" Wave Ski 4.0 4.8
Starboard Go 3.7 4.1
SUP 12'6" x 30" 4.5 5.4
SUP 12' x 32" 4.6 5.1
SUP 10' x 34" 4.4 4.6
SUP 11'2" x 30" 4.5 5.1
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Maybe somebody else can try duplicating this effort.
FWIW, my Garmin 301 GPS gets a little goofy when attached to a moving wrist or to the paddle itself - so I attached it to one of my surf shoes.
Certainly "Max Sustainable Crusing Speed" will vary individual-to-individual, but it would be interesting to see how "Sprint" speeds hold up.