Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Gear Talk => Topic started by: ukgm on March 10, 2017, 01:04:41 AM

Title: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: ukgm on March 10, 2017, 01:04:41 AM
One of us pesky brits has been racing a cut down K15 for a few years to great success. I was wondering how this (now old) displacement design would hold up when compared to 2017 technology ? Does anyone who has paddled a K15/14 have any views ?
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Area 10 on March 10, 2017, 02:39:08 AM
The answer to your question is "yes". Jim Drake was a clever guy. The K15 is of course very wide by today's standards, so it would feel odd to paddle unless you are tall. But it goes like stink. It's especially curiously fast flowing with the tide, so would be great for eg. the Head of the Dart race (a UK river race).  It's a good big guy's board, and I would fully expect you to be faster on it than on your 14x26 Maliko in most conditions except heavy chop or where lots of buoy turns were required. It even can be quite fast in small DW conditions if you are agile. It's a pretty remarkable design. An updated narrower, lighter 14ft version would go like stink. But it does have a rolly feeling to it, and the construction was truly dire. A friend of mine has one and it weighs 44lbs or something.

Starboard did announce a K14, but like various other promised Starboard innovations over the years, it never materialised.

Here's a vid back from when paddling 44 miles seemed like quite a feat. Just 7 years later we have Bertish crossing the Atlantic!

https://youtu.be/2EYd9cCUB6E
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: yugi on March 10, 2017, 04:10:12 AM
^cool route. I always wondered if those canals were doable and you could link them up. I've seen those canals flying into City airport and in Camden.

Man, if I did that I'd pick a board with zero risk to fall in.

That music made my teeth hurt and something about the editing was torture to watch. There are international conventions prohibiting such things.

Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: stoneaxe on March 10, 2017, 09:05:39 AM
Very fast board.....the reason for the 14' class i think. Not so sure about good big guys board. I sunk it deep at 250 lbs.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Area 10 on March 10, 2017, 09:31:49 AM
Yeah I should have said tall rather than big. My paddle buddy back in the day was a little over 6ft 3" and 90kg and he was way faster and more comfortable on the K15 than anything else he tried.

Apart from the bow and tail there's not a flat surface that goes anywhere near the water, so it is very slipery indeed. It does favour a powerful paddler though - it's not a board for Kai-sized nanopeople.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: PonoBill on March 10, 2017, 05:58:50 PM
I don't think there's much question that the K15 is the reason we now have 14' as the limit for racing. Naish was sponsoring a lot of the early races, and didn't have anything that would beat it.  Both the Javelin and the Glide of the era give away a bit of their waterline length and position the paddler high off the water, losing both stability and vector force of the paddle blade.  I found the K15 to be crazy fast. I didn't have one, but I used one a few times. Not a lot of freeboard left at my 235#, but still motored.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: yugi on March 10, 2017, 09:08:29 PM
what is your theory on lower having better "vector forces" on the blade?

I guess the Naish Catalina was their knock-off of the K15. Twitchy and no fun in chop. They retired it pretty quickly. A friend still has one.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: PonoBill on March 11, 2017, 12:27:24 PM
The vector difference isn't huge, but it's there. Raise the height of the paddler above the water and the center of force moves upward. Even if the paddler leans out to compensate so the catch point remains the same and the paddle gets buried, the difference in height of the center of force means more of the force is directed downwards. Get the paddler's feet down to the level of the water, or even better, somewhat below it, and more of the force is applied opposite to the direction of travel.

It's a little tricky to draw this, because you have to consider the angles that the force is applied through. If you just look at blade angle you might think being higher gives a more advantageous force angle. But anyone who has pulled something towards them knows that raising the point you pull from above the plane of motion makes it harder to pull. Some of the force is now being applied to lift the object instead of pulling it.

The paddler high on a deck is doing just that, except he's pushing down, not pulling up.

Again, not huge, but every tweak being applied to these boards is not huge.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Luc Benac on March 11, 2017, 12:36:35 PM
Get the paddler's feet down to the level of the water, or even better, somewhat below it, and more of the force is applied opposite to the direction of travel.

Interesting because anecdotally, one of the thing for me that makes paddling the Ace-Gt very nice is been closer to the water (about 1.5 inch closer than my BF).
I just thought that it was just me dreaming it but now it seems that there is a scientific base to it.
This was one the only thing I did not like with my Eradicator - been almost 7 inches above water - versus 4.5 for the BF and about 3.5 for the Ace.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 11, 2017, 04:15:49 PM
Here is another bird bath in 25 wide.  A guy local has a K15 and he raced it once in Deep Cove.  Was his first and last time.  Said he came in DFL.  Big guy too.  Board looks fast if you have the HP and endurance to keep the speed up.  Maybe will ask him this summer to let me take out for a spin.  Def a dropped COG should help.  Shape looks pretty efficient.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 11, 2017, 05:59:17 PM
"This was one the only thing I did not like with my Eradicator - been almost 7 inches above water - versus 4.5 for the BF and about 3.5 for the Ace."

Well that was a special custom E25 job for Norm tho.  He probs wanted a bit more volume to keep the board fast and not submerged at all.  When he used that board on a DW he told me liked the extra challenge.  He looked at my M14 and commented he really liked the shape.  Promptly after he literally hopped on his board and planed the E25 away from the ramp.  Haha.  He used his Gladiator Hybrid fin.  Sometimes he also uses his old Bark Expedition to DW.  You should consider going on one of his tours down south.  A lady here said she really enjoyed it.  She just got her instructor cert from Mike last year.

Now when I paddled your NH ex-E25 quad modified -> only used a small kicker and small ventral.  Worked fine.  Will be a change from his Ace 12'6 but he looked ok.  He likes to work on his balance anyways.  Noticed he has new paddles as well.  Hmm?  ;)
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 12, 2017, 01:19:11 PM
You should consider going on one of his tours down south.  A lady here said she really enjoyed it.

Sorry, donít mean to hijack this thread, but Eagle, was wondering how much you know about Normís tours? Iíve seen them on his website, and while it wouldnít be in our immediate plans, would definitely be something Iíd be interested in sometime down the road. Only thing is, my wife kayaks but doesnít paddle board. Do you know if Norm is set up to offer kayaks as well as paddle boards?
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Luc Benac on March 12, 2017, 01:37:02 PM
You should consider going on one of his tours down south.  A lady here said she really enjoyed it.

Sorry, donít mean to hijack this thread, but Eagle, was wondering how much you know about Normís tours? Iíve seen them on his website, and while it wouldnít be in our immediate plans, would definitely be something Iíd be interested in sometime down the road. Only thing is, my wife kayaks but doesnít paddle board. Do you know if Norm is set up to offer kayaks as well as paddle boards?

Gord, the Great Bear expedition is on my Bucket List too, hopefully sooner rather than later.
You can PM Norm on FB fairly easily and he is always super nice so if something can be done, I am sure he will.
I assume that you already checked his web site: https://www.normhann.com/supexpeditions/
I should see him soon and i can also ask if needed.

Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 12, 2017, 03:06:31 PM
Hi Luc,

It's actually the Belize expedition that I was thinking of. We already have plans for this year and for 2018, so 2019 is the earliest we would be able to do it. Given that it's so far out, I haven't bothered contacting Norm. So I'm certainly in no hurry, but if you do happen to see him and happen to remember, maybe ask him if he can arrange for kayaks to come along. My wife would definitely want a kayak, and it's possible we would go with another couple, and if they came with us, I know they would want kayaks as well.

I know, I know, what am I doing hanging around with all these kayakers   ;)

By the way, I see you've got your Blackfish up for sale. Looks like a great board and it's priced well. Too bad you are selling after just getting the new fin system installed. Good luck with the sale.

And one final thing. I took your advice on the Werner paddles and sold them both for the price I was offered. Your advice was absolutely correct and I'm glad I took the deal.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Luc Benac on March 12, 2017, 03:15:02 PM
Hi Luc,

It's actually the Belize expedition that I was thinking of. We already have plans for this year and for 2018, so 2019 is the earliest we would be able to do it. Given that it's so far out, I haven't bothered contacting Norm. So I'm certainly in no hurry, but if you do happen to see him and happen to remember, maybe ask him if he can arrange for kayaks to come along. My wife would definitely want a kayak, and it's possible we would go with another couple, and if they came with us, I know they would want kayaks as well.

I know, I know, what am I doing hanging around with all these kayakers   ;)

By the way, I see you've got your Blackfish up for sale. Looks like a great board and it's priced well. Too bad you are selling after just getting the new fin system installed. Good luck with the sale.

And one final thing. I took your advice on the Werner paddles and sold them both for the price I was offered. Your advice was absolutely correct and I'm glad I took the deal.

Yes if they were paddling OC-1 then nothing wrong with that :-)
I got two Blackfish both with multi-fins and my new Ace-GT. I thought it was time to pare down a little bit with the board I was the less likely to use the most. I can be reasonable....
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 12, 2017, 04:34:21 PM
Hi QB - the lady I know who did the Belize tour last month told me she really enjoyed it.  Next time we chat can get the lowdown for you.  She went down with some of her girlfriends leaving hubby behind.  Probs was party time.  Haha.  Would think that Norm could arrange kayaks for some of your group if that was your pref.  He really is a nice guy and would expect him to accomodate your needs.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 12, 2017, 07:07:58 PM
Thanks Eagle,

Much appreciated. As I said to Luc, this won't be something we do anytime soon, but it is something I would be interested in. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 12, 2017, 07:47:43 PM
Hi QB - actually was going to ask her for more details and logistics anyways.  She asked my wife and I to come along with her before she left.  But thinking back her tour was the beginning early January or so.  There were a number of dates to go.  Probs will not see her until the spring or summer -> and did notice this was just a 2019 recon mission for you.  Is always good to know more about stuff like that.  Never been down to Belize.  :)
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 12, 2017, 08:35:43 PM
QB - Yeah looks like they have what your wife and friends want ->

"Sea Kayaking (Paddling)"

Haha.  Just talked to wife about Belize and the tour -> and she told me "Yeah already have checked that out".  Hilarious.  But normally we go to places that have sailing.  So not sure that will work out.  Have been down to Mex Bahamas Aruba DR Costa Rica Panama Columbia etc -> so Belize is right in the hot zone.  But ya never know.  :)

http://www.islandexpeditions.com/our-belize-trips/belize-vacations/coral-islands-sup/trip-summary
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Eagle on March 20, 2017, 10:48:33 AM
QB - talked to the lady yesterday who went down to Belize.  She gave me all the details and said she saw some kayaks.  No one used them though.  She really liked her trip and said that Norm gave her a number of DW lessons.  Out of her group she noted that many were beginners.  :)
Title: Re: Starboard K15 Still a fast board ?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 20, 2017, 08:11:41 PM
Thanks Eagle,

Very much appreciated. Looks like another trip on the horizon!