Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: PaddleSpot on February 20, 2017, 01:19:53 PM
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Amazing downwind run on the "Étang de Berre" near Marseille two weeks ago.
19 km. Wind between 50 and 60 knots. Just my friend David and me 8)
https://vimeo.com/203010425
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It's amazing you can DW with the wind speed that high.
Thanks for sharing your video. I enjoyed watching it.
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8)
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Wow, I would love those conditions. Amazing!
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Nice glides....party on!
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It's amazing you can DW with the wind speed that high.
Actually it was easier than it usually is on this run. The wind flattened the water, as you can see around 01.45
The thing was to check that we always stayed on the track. With this wind, you definitely want to know where you're going to land, and it's hard to make last-minute trajectory corrections (even if I had my magic daggerboard).
I used a double leash (actually, a regular leash doubled with a spectra rope and two bowline knots ) ,and I have two plugs on the board.
And a paddle leash, too.. (just a rope between the paddle and my belt), a helmet, and of course a PFD
I always take a backup paddle, and use a Real-Time GPS Tracker (www.greenalp.com/realtimetracker/) , just in case
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great wind!
odd knots
It might just be weird camera angle but the blue looks like a "noeud vache".
What is the point of 2 bowlines ?
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great wind!
odd knots
It might just be weird camera angle but the blue looks like a "noeud vache".
What is the point of 2 bowlines ?
Not a "nœud de vache" but a "nœud d'écoute" http://mesnoeuds.free.fr/knot.php?knotId=30
The pink one is connected to my regular coiled leash and the 2 plugs. The blue one is the backup, for the second leash/spectra rope.
When I take only one leash, it's this one, with 2 bowlines knots, just in case the velcro fails
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It looked weird but thought I should stay polite in case you were getting all fancy with a nœud d'écoute.
Where do you launch from? Near Beau-Rivage?
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Where do you launch from? Near Beau-Rivage?
Here : https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/43.5486846,5.0291772
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@PaddleSpot
Nice shot of the tail. I thought your DW board was 28" wide. I was a little surprised to see it is 29".
Thanks for sharing the photo.
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I've still no idea what you are doing with the "double leash".... beyond me!
How do you attach the paddle to the front - any pics of the set up there please. Interested to see your paddle leash too ?
Well done for wearing the helmet.....so obvious but hardly anyone wears them.
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I thought your DW board was 28" wide. I was a little surprised to see it is 29".
That's my old 14'x29" F-ONE 2012, excellent in tough conditions :D
I would not imagine to use one of my homemade rounded boards over 30 knots :P
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Well done for wearing the helmet.....so obvious but hardly anyone wears them.
My customized helmet : yellow paint, and pads to protect...the board :-)
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How do you attach the paddle to the front
https://www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=272&idcategory=99
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I've still no idea what you are doing with the "double leash".... beyond me!
And the leash...
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I still don't feel totally safe with this leash, it is made of so many small parts... I have to try just a rope with a bungee shock-absorber.
A 4mm spectra rope with 2 knots just can't break ;D
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Thanks for posting all those pics....interesting to see what you do safety wise.
Cheers!
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Interested to see your paddle leash too
And the hi-tech paddle leash, tied to my belt.
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Work of art that one! Those NSI paddle holders look ideal....might find it tricky getting hold of those in the U.K.
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Work of art that one! Those NSI paddle holders look ideal....might find it tricky getting hold of those in the U.K.
Forget it. I had them sent from the USA by a friend.
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Spot, you’re doubling everything up but leaving out the essential! The leash part itself.
I see you like to play w knots but a simple (long enough) spectra line going from calf cuff to the second board leash plug would do a better (and simpler) job. Then just make sure the velcro is new enough and well closed on the calf cuff.
I don’t believe a 2nd paddle or leash is necessary. Especially for a lake 15km across. But whatever makes you feel good.
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Spot, you’re doubling everything up but leaving out the essential! The leash part itself.
I know, hence the idea of the spectra line with a bungee. No velcro, no articulation, no hidden/impossible-to-check parts.
My feeling is that leashes are not adapted to downwind. Too complicated, to fragile
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I don’t believe a 2nd paddle is necessary. Especially for a lake 15km across. But whatever makes you feel good.
I don't feel like paddling 10km with my hands in the chilly february water. Too old for that, I like some confort ;)
And I'm not even sure I would be able to steer the board with 50knt wind.
But you are right, I never actually used it.
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I don’t believe a 2nd paddle is necessary. Especially for a lake 15km across. But whatever makes you feel good.
I don't feel like paddling 10km with my hands in the chilly february water. Too old for that, I like some confort ;)
And I'm not even sure I would be able to steer the board with 50knt wind.
But you are right, I never actually used it.
Just getting me some of those paddle holder things.....good idea for over here in colder water....snapped paddle or lost paddle would be pretty serious. I could try proning in but with a 5 mm wettie on your arms tire really quick....another paddle much better. Although self reliance is the key it does no harm to have one handy if a pal has a problem too. I think as Yugi suggests it is up to the individual.....if you have a safety boat then not an issue.
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Just getting me some of those paddle holder things.....good idea for over here in colder water....snapped paddle or lost paddle would be pretty serious. I could try proning in but with a 5 mm wettie on your arms tire really quick....another paddle much better. Although self reliance is the key it does no harm to have one handy if a pal has a problem too. I think as Yugi suggests it is up to the individual.....if you have a safety boat then not an issue.
An alternative would be to have a cheap 3 piece travel paddle with you Ninja style :-) or strapped. It might be easier than having a long shaft tied to the board depending the board.
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Just getting me some of those paddle holder things.....good idea for over here in colder water....snapped paddle or lost paddle would be pretty serious. I could try proning in but with a 5 mm wettie on your arms tire really quick....another paddle much better. Although self reliance is the key it does no harm to have one handy if a pal has a problem too. I think as Yugi suggests it is up to the individual.....if you have a safety boat then not an issue.
An alternative would be to have a cheap 3 piece travel paddle with you Ninja style :-) or strapped. It might be easier than having a long shaft tied to the board depending the board.
Yes, considered that idea but tying to the board .....I can strap my shorter surf paddle to the front of my DW not probs...shouldn't interfere.
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An alternative would be to have a cheap 3 piece travel paddle with you Ninja style :-) or strapped. It might be easier than having a long shaft tied to the board depending the board.
Mine is actually a 3 piece paddle, modified so I can connect the upper and lower parts together. It's about 4ft long without the middle part.
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For solo open water distance or dangerous conditions - a backup system is smart. I have been using a paddle wrist leash in our cold waters every time for the past month. Have worked out most the bugs and is now becoming second nature switching sides. Will try the waist attachment option today. Air temps here are now up to a balmy 6C plus sun - so have been back to board shorts and t-shirt for a while now. But snow is expected again on the weekend. So still may need the drysuit again.
A straight spectra line with bowlines is very secure and very strong. Have used that when my coiled was left at home. The paddle to board connections look good for an emergency backup. Much better than prone in cold water. Could only paddle for maybe 15 minutes like that before my fingertips would freeze up.
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I don’t believe a 2nd paddle is necessary. Especially for a lake 15km across. But whatever makes you feel good.
I don't feel like paddling 10km with my hands in the chilly february water. Too old for that, I like some confort ;)
And I'm not even sure I would be able to steer the board with 50knt wind.
But you are right, I never actually used it.
Good answer!
The best part about shlepping backups is usually means you’ll never lose your paddle.
I often have my paddle slip away when we’re having a sit down pause for a smoke in 30+ kn. It’s so not an issue to prone it upwind to collect. I do it all the time.
Kiting the first few times one loses one's board in festive conditions one wonders if one will ever locate it again. Then one gets used to it. Even with a very sober colored board.
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PS - just got back in after trying the paddle to waist set-up. Worked ok but the wrist option worked better for me. Seems just more free away from my body. After a while like most things it just becomes normalized anyways. Kinda feels odd now not having it attached. Also allows you to just let go of your paddle for lunch or snacks on the water. Just tie off to your leash. No worries about it floating away. Same benefit with camera and vid shots. ;)
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I made a paddle leash out of a Velcro bodyboard fins leash....and the Aquapac yellow neck string....not used it yet. Attaches to my Camelbak chest clip.
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For some reason having the paddle attached in front of me just felt constrictive with more potential hazard -> so make sure you are ok with that when you try yours. Once switched back to my wrist it felt a lot better for me. My system stays tight to the shaft so it pretty much stays out of the way. Takes a bit of fiddling at first to get the optimal length - but once set-up like it is now - it works really good. Super low profile flat cord that is not much noticeable anymore.
Have been using the 23 and the green Race Ultra fin pretty much exclusively all winter. That OEM fin is a very good compromise for tracking vs the SIC 7.0 and Gladiator Elite. So far broaching has not been an issue at all. Really liking the turning vs tracking aspects. No probs at all today upwind and DW in 10-12 kts. Was very impressed actually. The SIC is great for quick turns -> but turns too easy when you want more tracking for distance. DW that fin did really good on the 23.
In very light winds like that the 23 catches pretty much every wave. That board just slithers along with such low drag. No comparison to any other board I have tried. With the boof I let it pearl an inch or two - and it pops up under complete control angling down and across swells. Most fun I have ever had in such crappy sloppy cross chop conditions. That little 23 just powers in that. :)
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got a pic you of your wrist leash? In my mind I am trying to figure out how you can change hands without it getting in the way. What length?
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Put it around my left wrist and snug up and go. Can use your thumb to catch any slack as well. Initially would get in the way a bit. After about 20x out on the water - you stop thinking about it. Attachment point on the shaft is tight - but can slide a bit to help take out slack when your hand is around the grip. Works better than my first version with just spectra and knots. ;)
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Ta Eagle
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I wouldn’t wear a paddle leash.
I certainly would never wear a paddle leash without a quickrelease. For several reasons. Wrist velcro quick release cuffs exist or an ankle leash cuff could be adapted.
In solving a problem which doesn’t exist you guys could be creating a very real one.
You have, however, changed my mind to add a piece of safety gear to my pack for cold water downwinds. I will buy and carry some cold water gloves for downwinds when the water is less than 15c/60F. Thanks for that!
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Nice to see somebody else DWing with a spare paddle!!
I reckon its Myself and you guys? Everyone else thinks its overkill.
Great Gliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiides btw :)
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Pretty much the biggest concern this way is cold water and cold air temps -> and having your board float off on you. Then maybe next losing your paddle. The risks are somewhat low and we have not had either ever occur.
But first line of defense is a board and paddle leash -> then maybe a backup plan like a spectra leash and spare paddle for long distances or big wind or big seas.
Many have suffered major consequences using no leash or no PFD. DJ has shown clearly it is possible to survive -> in somewhat warm conditions though. But in 5C cold water - hmmm? Maybe not so lucky. But if one never ventures in cold waters or big wind or crosses longer distances -> then can see not being too concerned. PS and UKR and others like BdeS and CB - are smart to have backups. Just like many now use waist leashes and QR. Always good to know what options are out there. ;)
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Temps today were 5C. Was out in Hydrus dry pants and a t-shirt. Perfect. Wind was 10 kts in a lotsa slop and cross chop. Took out the 23 but swapped for the aircraft carrier Dom. Right choice.
Land on the left is 2 mi away. Right is 5 miles. Buildings in the center 9 miles. No way could you prone 2 miles to shore. Your arms and fingers would fall off in 5C water. Safety first they always say. Was out 2 mi from land -> like pretty much always. Board leash and paddle leash are key when having some fun in cold temps. ;)
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Easy Peasy back up plan if you lose your paddle. These https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5032-166/Ergo-Flex-Handpaddles
are in my hydration pack. Couple them with the water temp appropriate neoprene gloves and your set.
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Another one last week-end ;D
https://vimeo.com/335964465
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Wow, awesome conditions. Nice work getting shots of the other riders. That's the way to shoot a video. 8)
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That was some serious wind. The swell looked like it was lined up pretty good. Fun fun!
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Another one last week-end ;D
https://vimeo.com/335964465
Ma famille me disait que le Mistral soufflait a 120km/h dans la vallée et 200 km/h au Mont Ventoux. Faut bien s'accrocher a sa planche :-)
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Great vid and awesome conditions.. 8)
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Ma famille me disait que le Mistral soufflait a 120km/h dans la vallée et 200 km/h au Mont Ventoux. Faut bien s'accrocher a sa planche :-)
Je ne suis pas allé voir en haut du Ventoux, mais on a enregistré 103 km/h sur l'étang pendant la descente. Faut bien s'accrocher en effet, je ferme généralement la marche avec un leash en corde noué à la cheville et à 2 plugs sur la planche :-)
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Two great vids and epic conditions on both of these runs! 8) Good to see that you have safety in mind too. Thanks for sharing! :)
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Last week's update :)
Less windy but winter is not over...
https://vimeo.com/389816906
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Good stuff! Still very fun conditions 8) Maybe next video some little more board porn at the end so we can really appreciate the shape on its contours.
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The board is a 3bay prototype, 14'x28"
We started from the design of the 3bayAllwater 14' 2020, but I asked the shaper Patrice Remoiville to remove a lot of volume from the front rails and the tail to reduce the impact of waves hitting the board;
My idea is :
- the tail volume is useless, and even unconfortable, on a board designed to surf
- the less tail volume you have, the less nose volume you need to balance it.
So I had him remove 50 liters, from 310 to 260
http://3bay.fr/boards-race-allwater-14 (http://3bay.fr/boards-race-allwater-14)
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- the tail volume is useless, and even unconfortable, on a board designed to surf
- the less tail volume you have, the less nose volume you need to balance it.
So I had him remove 50 liters, from 310 to 260
Very nice! Looks much better than the catalog one without all the volume and I could tell the how the nose is more effective without the extra volume when digging into a bump.
And those shaved 50 liters makes for a lighter or more durable board (which did you choose?)
Thanks for posting.
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Super Olivier.
Je visite la famille de temps en temps a L'isle Sur la Sorgue depuis le Canada.
Je vais etre plus attentif quand il y a du Mistral.
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Super Olivier.
Je visite la famille de temps en temps a L'isle Sur la Sorgue depuis le Canada.
Je vais etre plus attentif quand il y a du Mistral.
Moyennant un léger supplément de bagage, ton Maliko 14' x 26" est absolument parfait pour Berre ;) C'était d'ailleurs une source d'inspiration au moment de supprimer du volume, j'adore ce concept de planche plate aux extrémités fines, ça gomme tout le backwash
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Great video
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Same topic, new video :)
https://vimeo.com/495016531
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Awesome 8)
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Beautiful 8)
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That’s some stoking vids. Here on the other side we are missing the DW chance.
Your board is nice, 3bay by Patrice I guess. He used to be overhere.
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> 3bay by Patrice I guess
Yes, 3bay 14' custom, handmade by Patrice himself :-)
https://3bay.fr/
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Yeah, the first time your board blows over your head and hits the end of the leash like a pissed-off Marlin you start thinking about how to double down on leashes. I've done a couple of involuntary long swims. Not fun. I've also proned in after I lost my paddle (and lost my wing while wingfoiling). Certainly doable, but at 74 I don't want to do it unless I really need to. I'll be adding a short two-piece paddle to my foilboard for Maui downwinders this year. I think I can make one about 15" long that will connect to be about 30". Kneeling and paddling is not wonderful, but it beats the crap out of prone paddling with my shitty shoulders.
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Super. L'etang de Berre semble parfait pour un downwind.
I have to say that when watching some of the big drops, my feet moved on their own volition into a surf stance and I had to go down to the garage to give a pat at my Maliko and Torpedo.
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Yeah, the first time your board blows over your head and hits the end of the leash like a pissed-off Marlin you start thinking about how to double down on leashes.
My leash is actually a 4mm spectra rope, with two plugs, and a bowline around my ankle, with a snap shackle for quick release. Just unbreakable.
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Another one, with a coiled leash inside the spectra rope
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Great vid. Must get down there one day. Only a 2 hour drive from me.
Are you left handed Olivier?
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Great vid. Must get down there one day. Only a 2 hour drive from me.
Are you left handed Olivier?
no, why ?
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Your bowlines look like they are tied by a lefthanded person.
I am in Cannes. If you are ever down this way send me a message.
Looks like you get better downwind conditions there than in the bay of Cannes.
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I suspect he's tying a tugboat bowline, the same one I do. (note: some websites show a very different knot for tugboat bowline--one that I want to learn. Mine starts as an overhand knot that gets pulled through to form the loop). Sailors ask me if I'm left-handed on occasion. I never tie a regular bowline, tugboat bowlines are quick and easy. I tie them automatically, even when I don't really need a bowline. I'm pretty sure that if I tie the sheets in knots while I'm sleeping it will be a trucker's hitch. I tie them with my eyes closed--it's easier. You learn a few knots, and they work forever. Seeing people do some kind of macrame to tie something down makes me physically ill, I have to walk away. I no longer try to teach them a better way. People who can't tie a decent knot by the time they are twenty are simply immune to learning.
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One of my Mistral days in the bay of Cannes. The swell dosnt have enough scope to pick up but its plenty windy.
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Yeah, the first time your board blows over your head and hits the end of the leash like a pissed-off Marlin you start thinking about how to double down on leashes.
My leash is actually a 4mm spectra rope, with two plugs, and a bowline around my ankle, with a snap shackle for quick release. Just unbreakable.
That was some amazing DW conditions! Nice vids :)
I do have a comment on your leash arrangement.
I couldn't tell if you have any stretchy part of you 4mm Spectra Rope, but it didn't look like it.
A guy went surfing small waves with a leash similar to yours.... just an unbreakable thin rope tied around his ankle
I watched him bury the nose of his surf SUP, so it shot up behind him and the line strangled his ankle and almost cost him his foot.
He crawled up on the beach, barely able to talk, he was is excruciating pain.
There were 3 army buddies with him that tried to cut the line off his foot for about 5 minutes.
the line had sunk into his flesh so deep, that they couldn't get a knife blade under it.
I told them to cut him if they had too, but they had to get that line off before he lost his foot.
He just laid there, almost unable to speak... if he was alone, he never would have gotten the line off.
There was a 1/4" deep groove in his ankle left by the thin rope and he could barely walk afterwards.
Not something you want to happen offshore in 50 mph winds, where you could bury the nose and have a similar violent tug on your thin rope leash.
Apologies if you have this all settled, but I thought something should be said in case other readers decided to use a thin rope as a leash.
Pics of the incident:
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Not something you want to happen offshore in 50 mph winds, where you could bury the nose and have a similar violent tug on your thin rope leash.
Apologies if you have this all settled, but I thought something should be said in case other readers decided to use a thin rope as a leash.
You are totally right. But a properly done knot will never strangle the ankle. And I have a triple bungee along the rope. And booties. And a quick release. I've been using this system for 3 years, first with a 10mm rope around the ankle, then downsizing to 6, and now 4mm. I fall a lot, no violent tug so far.
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The cool thing with this system is that you can keep an eye on the wear and tear of the rope. On a regular leash, you generally see nothing until it breaks.
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I stick with Urethane, having a bungee launch something at you is trading one hazard for another. Urethane stretches enough to take up shock but has a lot of hysteresis that takes time to overcome. That means it recoils slowly. Generally, even a serious stretch goes away after a few hours and most of the stretch from a shock is recovered in seconds. But unless it's coiled it won't fire back at you if it gets released. I pull them apart with a truck to see where my old leashes fail. I've done that the dozens of leashes over the years. They don't come whipping back.
I've seen people forego a cuff and just use a rope when they forgot their leash, it always looks really dangerous to me. If I was alone, where my board couldn't nail anyone, and didn't mind swimming in, I'd surf without a leash rather than use a rope, but I'd skip surfing before I'd just tie the thing to my leg.
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I stick with Urethane, having a bungee launch something at you is trading one hazard for another.
The bungee part is only 50cm long on a 3 meter leash, it doesn't provide enough energy for a 14' board to come back to the sender against 40kt wind + bumps.
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Probably so. I've done the same belt and suspenders approach with standard leashes for downwinding, backing them up with 4mm spectra that's a foot or so longer than the leash. I reduce the tangles by taping the cord to the leash about every foot or so and making a flat loop to take up the slack. That gets held to the leash with velcro ties at each end. I don't worry about the swivels--I bypass them. I've never seen more than a few twists.
I see people do clever things like dual leash plugs and then negate the benefit by threading a single line through them to attach the rail saver. I do two loops and one of them is loose and floppy. If the line breaks, which is common, the second one holds and is obvious.
In my testing, I've seen leashes break everywhere. At the cuff, at the rail saver, in the urethane, at the molded join, at the swivel, in the swivel attachment, and cuff velcro wears out or gets plugged with stuff and won't hold. You name it, I've seen it. It's become an end-of-Maui-season tradition--pull all the leashes until they break. Get new ones next year. I should have taken notes and pictures, but I didn't. For some reason, I don't do it in hood river, so I have a big box of leashes I don't use. Handy for hooking up the grandkids and daughters since they don't do spooky downwinders.