Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: JEG on February 12, 2017, 04:44:57 PM
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just another happy infinity sup rider.
I use the whiplash 14 x 25 for flat and calm waters.
I use the blackfish 14 x 26 for rough and ocean waters.
the infinity carbon boards are soo light (will weight & let you know soon) and behave differently to each other as expected.
http://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Stand_Up_Paddle/11622403.jpg
http://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Stand_Up_Paddle/11622395.jpg
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Perfect quiver.
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For the weight conscious both board with fin:
14 × 25 whiplash = 9.5kg (20.9lb)
14 x 26 blackfish = 10.4kg (22.9lb)
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Wow! Those boards with fins are light in weight for the lengths.
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Nice ride JEG. No wonder you're happy :)
Wow! Those boards with fins are light in weight for the lengths.
^ and light as they are, those boards still maintain a solid build.
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cheers Luc Benac!
thats correct weight Night Wing, about 0.01-/+ tolerance.
thanks burchas, I think a got most weather condition covered except for proper dw condition though not to say the blackfish can't handle it and I'm no pro so I'm thinking a dedicated surf/dw board is on the list imo.
I just came back from a head wind 15+knts paddle on the blackfish and the nose either piercing through the mini wave or up nice an low and not too high.
Angle/side wind/wave doesn't affect the board's nose and rail that much like other board with bulbose nose and high rail because of its low profile.
On the way home with the angle swell and the tail wind from behind was a challenge as I have to learn to stand way back to trim/glide mini waves and those wide tail help with stability.
The whiplash glides well on calm to flat water condition and every session is a new experience.
Can't wait to try the blackfish & whiplash in the mini surf to test their behaviour.
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WOW, those are pretty. Absolutely lovely shapes. 8)
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I like my Blackfish a lot, but it's not the best for downwind. Just too hard to steer, even with a squirrel-style fin.
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I like my Blackfish a lot, but it's not the best for downwind. Just too hard to steer, even with a squirrel-style fin.
PonoBill, with my inexperience dw the new maliko 14 x 26 (tested few months ago) compare to the blackfish 14 x 26 felt good on mini dw even though their almost similar in shape (just look at dj stability dw vids).
Maybe someone here can explain the technical details.
Only difference I can see with the blackfish are the tail marginally wide than maliko, square-ish rail blackfish with round-ish rail maliko and blackfish centre channel approx 290mm wide at 9mm deep at the tail.
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Depending on the year of the Blackfish the tail will be a little bit wider, I believe.
Wide 2015>2016>2017
The BF with the full set of fins is often tracking too well for down-winding.
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Exactly how wide is the Blackfish tail anyway? On the 26" & 24"...
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Exactly how wide is the Blackfish tail anyway? On the 26" & 24"...
On my 2015 24" it is 15".
I do not have the 26" at hand right now but I think that it is closer to 16".
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Maybe someone here can explain the technical details.
Only difference I can see with the blackfish are the tail marginally wide than maliko, square-ish rail blackfish with round-ish rail maliko and blackfish centre channel approx 290mm wide at 9mm deep at the tail.
As far as I could tell the Blackfish and Maliko are more different than alike.
Comparing the Maliko 14x24 to my 2017 Blackfish 14x24
- Maliko is around 20L smaller on the volume at 241L (mine actually is 275L)
- Rocker line throughout is completely different
- Narrower tail and much lower tail volume (my tail is 13in wide)
- Slightly more recessed deck at standing area
- very different bottom shape
- different rail shape
There's probably more but it's been a while since I saw the Maliko up close.
If you only look at the 2 boards on paper from birds eye view then, yes,
they look very similar.
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You ridden both?
I've never been on a Blackfish (or handled one). I understood Pono's comment was due to the Blackfish very parallel outline that it's not so turny on a DW. Which is same same feeling I get on a Naish Maliko which has awesome stability for it's width and is a great allround board but is more of pivot off the tail kind of turner on DWs rather than carving up killer turns.
So what are the differences in rocker and rails? And difference in ride if you know both?
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Exactly how wide is the Blackfish tail anyway? On the 26" & 24"...
On my 2015 24" it is 15".
I do not have the 26" at hand right now but I think that it is closer to 16".
On my BF 14 X 26 tail width is 345mm.or almost 14"
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Thanks guys...are they consistent with tail width or bounce around based on what kind of stability the riders looking for in a given overall board width? How does the tail release feel? Obviously the design works very well.
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Thanks guys...are they consistent with tail width or bounce around based on what kind of stability the riders looking for in a given overall board width? How does the tail release feel? Obviously the design works very well.
It would be difficult to know as most of the previous production was "custom" made in USA.
My general understanding is that for the same model, the tail has become narrower every year as the concave shape changed and the release also improved allowing for a straighter tail versus the crescent moon on the 2015 models.
Burchas 2017 14x24 tail is 13", mine 2015 14x24 tail is 15" that said both are custom models but not sure to what extend.
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You ridden both?
I've never been on a Blackfish (or handled one). I understood Pono's comment was due to the Blackfish very parallel outline that it's not so turny on a DW. Which is same same feeling I get on a Naish Maliko which has awesome stability for it's width and is a great allround board but is more of pivot off the tail kind of turner on DWs rather than carving up killer turns.
So what are the differences in rocker and rails? And difference in ride if you know both?
I haven't ridden the Maliko but I've handled it thoroughly. I believe Pono's
Blackfish is a 2015. The 2017 is quite different. Less nose rocker different bottom. Dave added some rounded section in the front with more rounded
rails which become much sharper beyond the rounded section.
The Maliko has more rounded rails, especially in the front section.
as for the the rocker, here is an image to show the differences.
I didn't have much issues with turning my Blackfish. My fin position is
16" from the tail and with the right fin I never noticed an issue, but then
again, I don't have much experience downwinding in conditions like Pono's
or at all for that matter so I can't really compare.
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I've had a few Blackfish models over the past couple of years (along with the Whiplash models). Currently I have one of the 2016 LTD Blackfish boards, 14' x 24". The tail on this board is 13" wide and as others have commented, Dave has pulled the tail in since the first Blackfish design. It also has less of a "crescent moon" shape (see pic below). The tail has also been flattened a bit. Earlier designs had more of a ramp/hump right at the end but the new models are much more consistent with the rest of the deck, as can be seen in the mockup that burchas posted.
I have paddled a Blackfish (this one and older ones) on a handful of downwind runs in California and a couple here in New England so we're not comparing apples to apples when talking about a downwind design that is best suited for the islands or places where you have true, consistent downwind runs. I've had a blast on it downwind and usually run a single fin although Dave frequently uses 2+1 fin setups in open ocean but he's always experimenting and trying out different combos - one of the reasons I love Infinity - he doesn't settle and actually paddles the boards he designs.
The 2017 Blackfish model has been refined and tweaked even more and I can't wait to get one of the new designs. Dave's creative mind has made the Blackfish evolve into a board that is moving towards something that excels and works in almost all conditions, flat water included. Dave finished 3rd on his 2017 Blackfish in the recent Hano Hano race in San Diego, 10 seconds behind 1st place Danny Ching and 3 seconds behind 2nd place Chase Kosterlitz. This is an entirely flat water race in Mission Bay. They're fun as hell to surf too.
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The 2017 Blackfish model has been refined and tweaked even more and I can't wait to get one of the new designs. Dave's creative mind has made the Blackfish evolve into a board that is moving towards something that excels and works in almost all conditions, flat water included. Dave finished 3rd on his 2017 Blackfish in the recent Hano Hano race in San Diego, 10 seconds behind 1st place Danny Ching and 3 seconds behind 2nd place Chase Kosterlitz. This is an entirely flat water race in Mission Bay. They're fun as hell to surf too.
I really, really like the pictures I have seen of the 2017 Blackfish.
The small refinement on the 2016 were nice, but if I had some money I would likely upgrade my two 2015 for a new 2017 14x25.
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I really, really like the pictures I have seen of the 2017 Blackfish.
The small refinement on the 2016 were nice, but if I had some money I would likely upgrade my two 2015 for a new 2017 14x25.
I agree. I think the 2017 design is the sexiest of the Blackfish yet. Something about it that just looks right yet still so different.
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I'm happy with my 2016 boards and it would be nice to see and test the 2017 boards.
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The Blackfish looks really nice.
I get the feeling one gets more up to date info here than on Infinity web site. Is this a "need to know" kind of basis operation? OK for custom walk-in customers but no so confidence inspiring for more distant prospects.
What are 2017 14' Blackfish specs?
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https://issuu.com/infinitysurf./docs/infinity_sup_catalog2017_full_issuu
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The Blackfish looks really nice.
I get the feeling one gets more up to date info here than on Infinity web site. Is this a "need to know" kind of basis operation? OK for custom walk-in customers but no so confidence inspiring for more distant prospects.
What are 2017 14' Blackfish specs?
Infinity is a small, family-run operation. I hear what you're saying but they have their current, up to date catalog available when you go to www.infinity-sup.com. Dave & Justin and anyone else at the shop is more than happy to talk shapes, dimensions, etc. Just drop them an email, hit them up on Facebook or give the shop a call. They are very reachable.
I've added a pic below of the 2017 Blackfish production dimensions. Keep in mind that you can also get a custom board with any dimensions that you'd like.
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The Blackfish looks really nice.
I get the feeling one gets more up to date info here than on Infinity web site. Is this a "need to know" kind of basis operation? OK for custom walk-in customers but no so confidence inspiring for more distant prospects.
What are 2017 14' Blackfish specs?
Few discussions like this directly on their Face Book page.
https://www.facebook.com/InfinitySUP/photos/a.304408852921346.85812.301593443202887/1449537905075096/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/InfinitySUP/photos/a.304408852921346.85812.301593443202887/1449537905075096/?type=3&theater)
Infinity is very approachable and yes they are a small outfit at the opposite of Starboard. Dave Boehne has often taken the time to directly answer my emails and questions and I am a normal Joe out of Canada not a SoCal board-head. I think that this year they are expanding their distribution network and with the new line be made overseas are better able to expand.
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For the weight conscious both board with fin:
14 × 25 whiplash = 9.5kg (20.9lb)
14 x 26 blackfish = 10.4kg (22.9lb)
My 14x24 Whiplash is 26 lbs. Bit disappointing, I wonder why the imports are so much lighter.
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For the weight conscious both board with fin:
14 × 25 whiplash = 9.5kg (20.9lb)
14 x 26 blackfish = 10.4kg (22.9lb)
My 14x24 Whiplash is 26 lbs. Bit disappointing, I wonder why the imports are so much lighter.
I think that there was some information around that the "Limited" a.k.a. made overseas were sometime lighter than the construction in the USA (might be from Kayyadog in this forum).
My 2015 boards are also heavier than the new ones (Blackfish 26 is 26 lbs. and 24" is 24 lbs.) but they are very tough and the construction gives confidence that they will last with minimum repairs. You might console yourself thinking that the little bit of extra weight helps the board keep some momentum and glide once in gear.....
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not sure why my production board is lighter than customer board and it could be the material and build stage process, who knows?
one advantage of my lightweight whiplash is lifting and carrying to transport and it feels light on the glide. But I do feel more of the bumbs/chops/wake conditions and this probably the board weight/width/design of the board combine with my weight. On flat to calm days its a pleasure. I'm looking forward to experement with LA standard fins, probox & the ventral fins oneday with my whiplash.
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Ive only used the twin/ventral combo so far. I might put a standard fin in it just to see what type of differences I can discern.`If it's less stable as a single then I'll rule out ever using one fin on that board. It is very twitchy.
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got any pics of your whiplash with those 4 fins warmuth?
My reasoning for the whiplash is for flat and calm days and the blackfish for the bay & ocean days.
I took the whiplash in a 1-2ft surf and it is twitchy compare to the blackfish. It would be interesting to see the whiplash with the probox/ventral fin setup and compare with the blackfish single fin setup.
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I think that there was some information around that the "Limited" a.k.a. made overseas were sometime lighter than the construction in the USA (might be from Kayyadog in this forum).
I'm not sure if I'm the one that alluded to this but it's possible. Sometimes they may be lighter than customs, sometimes not. Obviously customs, and even production boards, will have some weight variance. Over time, repairs, trapped water etc. will also make a board heavier. The LTD boards are very light but also feel solid and durable. In my experience, they hold up very well. Really nice tradeoff between a competitive price, low weight and durability. I know people say you can only have 2 out of the 3 but these boards seem to be a nice happy medium of the 3.
Ive only used the twin/ventral combo so far. I might put a standard fin in it just to see what type of differences I can discern.`If it's less stable as a single then I'll rule out ever using one fin on that board. It is very twitchy.
warmuth, in my experience and in my opinion, I liked using a single fin in both the Blackfish and Whiplash in open ocean. This is not to say that it's better, just what I prefer. Dave Boehne uses the triple fin setup and sometimes even a ventral in the ocean. It's all about feel and also getting the fins that work the best for you and the board. The reason I like a single fin better is that the triple fin setup that I use has a much shorter height. Surface area was roughly the same when you add everything up but when paddling in swells/chop, as the tail would lift up, it would feel like the fins would break free now and then and slip. I didn't like this feeling and felt more "locked in" with a taller single fin. Again, all personal preference. The one thing I can say is that it's really nice having the option to run a single or trips and/or ventral.
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So far the only thing I really notice is the triple with ventral is much faster to get to speed from a dead stop. Right now I just need to figure out the best option for stability. My board doesn't have a recessed deck for whatever reason, the video Dave linked me showed the whiplash coming with a recess. That combined with a somewhat v shape on the bottom at the back end of the board seems to be contributing to it being quite a tippy board. 26 pounds is also a bit shocking to me for a 3500.00 custom carbon board.
I'll try to get some pics of the fin set up tomorrow.
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got any pics of your whiplash with those 4 fins warmuth?
My reasoning for the whiplash is for flat and calm days and the blackfish for the bay & ocean days.
I took the whiplash in a 1-2ft surf and it is twitchy compare to the blackfish. It would be interesting to see the whiplash with the probox/ventral fin setup and compare with the blackfish single fin setup.
Whiplash 14' by 23" with Allison Race Twins Thought I would share with you my friend!
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I stuck my usual race fin on my Whiplash today with the side fins and ventral and the board was just about perfect stability wise. With the usual small center fin it's just too tippy. That whiplash in the pic Larry posted doesnt look to have the same V bottom mine has, I haven't asked Dave yet why my board is so much different than the whiplash in the Infinity Video as well as all the others Ive seem pics of. Speed wise between the small center fin vs standard race fin I'll have to do some runs when the wind isn't blowing 25mph.
Questions for Larry. Do you make a center fin that's deeper than the one in that pic that is also designed to work with the twins or is it a matter of picking the fin, any fin, with the best balance of stability to speed?
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Larry has the same fin than your kick fin (6" deep) but larger (7" deep). Might be too big for a kicker.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208286101503289&set=a.4186123264468.158878.1626125184&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208286101503289&set=a.4186123264468.158878.1626125184&type=3&theater)
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I stuck my usual race fin on my Whiplash today with the side fins and ventral and the board was just about perfect stability wise. With the usual small center fin it's just too tippy. That whiplash in the pic Larry posted doesnt look to have the same V bottom mine has, I haven't asked Dave yet why my board is so much different than the whiplash in the Infinity Video as well as all the others Ive seem pics of. Speed wise between the small center fin vs standard race fin I'll have to do some runs when the wind isn't blowing 25mph.
Questions for Larry. Do you make a center fin that's deeper than the one in that pic that is also designed to work with the twins or is it a matter of picking the fin, any fin, with the best balance of stability to speed?
You can go to a bigger center fin, but I would go to a bigger Twin because the problem is at the rail not center.
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Ok thanks. Contact you direct through your site to order a set?
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nice boards gents.
ProBox-Larry, which set size fins (probox & ventral) should I get for my whiplash 14 x 25? I'm also going to get the stinger and dolphine keel to try.
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nice boards gents.
ProBox-Larry, which set size fins (probox & ventral) should I get for my whiplash 14 x 25? I'm also going to get the stinger and dolphine keel to try.
Probox Stealth Twins with 6" Stinger Kick and small Ventral.
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warmuth, I talked to Dave today and I wanted to add some additional info to this thread.
The reason your board is different than others you've seen and the one in the video is because you have the 2017 model, the latest and greatest. Same design that Candice raced on most of last year including PPG. Single concave to double to vee out the back this year. This was for added stability and during testing they got higher speeds from Candice.
It has a flat deck because most people prefer that and the boards are higher volume, which means they are strong enough without needing to add a recessed ridge for stiffness. The 2017 Blackfish has a slight recessed ridge to increase stiffness in certain areas and make sure it doesn't flex too much.
Also, weight is determined by volume not by width or length of the board. It all depends on the girth…. a 26” wide board can weigh less than a 23” wide board if the 23” wide board is higher volume. Boards generally come in at the 20-22lb mark for a 12’6” and 21-23lb for a 14' all carbon custom, especially with the trend of higher volume boards. Add pads and 4 fins and you will get to 25+ lbs quick. Keep in mind the production boards do not have the additional fin boxes that you have in your board.
Dave will be posting some new videos in the coming weeks that highlight the features of the 2017 models. Hope this info helps.
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warmuth, I talked to Dave today and I wanted to add some additional info to this thread.
The reason your board is different than others you've seen and the one in the video is because you have the 2017 model, the latest and greatest. Same design that Candice raced on most of last year including PPG. Single concave to double to vee out the back this year. This was for added stability and during testing they got higher speeds from Candice.
It has a flat deck because most people prefer that and the boards are higher volume, which means they are strong enough without needing to add a recessed ridge for stiffness. The 2017 Blackfish has a slight recessed ridge to increase stiffness in certain areas and make sure it doesn't flex too much.
Also, weight is determined by volume not by width or length of the board. It all depends on the girth…. a 26” wide board can weigh less than a 23” wide board if the 23” wide board is higher volume. Boards generally come in at the 20-22lb mark for a 12’6” and 21-23lb for a 14' all carbon custom, especially with the trend of higher volume boards. Add pads and 4 fins and you will get to 25+ lbs quick. Keep in mind the production boards do not have the additional fin boxes that you have in your board.
Dave will be posting some new videos in the coming weeks that highlight the features of the 2017 models. Hope this info helps.
Hey kayadogg,
Am just curious. The board I’m getting from Genna, is I believe she said a mid 2016. It’s a custom board, but she said it was designed to be the same as the 2017 models, and then I’m pretty sure she said there was no difference between the 2016 and 2017 boards in any case. Did I get that wrong then?
(Note that mine is the 12' 6" x 24 1/2" Whiplash)
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warmuth, I talked to Dave today and I wanted to add some additional info to this thread.
The reason your board is different than others you've seen and the one in the video is because you have the 2017 model, the latest and greatest. Same design that Candice raced on most of last year including PPG. Single concave to double to vee out the back this year. This was for added stability and during testing they got higher speeds from Candice.
It has a flat deck because most people prefer that and the boards are higher volume, which means they are strong enough without needing to add a recessed ridge for stiffness. The 2017 Blackfish has a slight recessed ridge to increase stiffness in certain areas and make sure it doesn't flex too much.
Also, weight is determined by volume not by width or length of the board. It all depends on the girth…. a 26” wide board can weigh less than a 23” wide board if the 23” wide board is higher volume. Boards generally come in at the 20-22lb mark for a 12’6” and 21-23lb for a 14' all carbon custom, especially with the trend of higher volume boards. Add pads and 4 fins and you will get to 25+ lbs quick. Keep in mind the production boards do not have the additional fin boxes that you have in your board.
Dave will be posting some new videos in the coming weeks that highlight the features of the 2017 models. Hope this info helps.
Thanks for that. The board is quite stiff, that is for sure. I can feel my other boards "shudder" pounding upwind where this one does not. Id still want a deck recess, the board is quite tall. Im not sure what all that volume is for to be honest. In all fairness I did tell Dave to have at it with the design given my weight so my complaints are less complaining than they are confusion. I know precisely zero about design so his judgement trumps mine. Sorting the fins will have the board working just fine.
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Hey kayadogg,
Am just curious. The board I’m getting from Genna, is I believe she said a mid 2016. It’s a custom board, but she said it was designed to be the same as the 2017 models, and then I’m pretty sure she said there was no difference between the 2016 and 2017 boards in any case. Did I get that wrong then?
(Note that mine is the 12' 6" x 24 1/2" Whiplash)
Hey Quickbeam, not sure if Genna's is the exact same as the 2017, depends on when she had it made. I can find out though. There will be slight differences between 2016 and 2017 versions. I think her board has the slight recessed deck and the bottom contours will be a little different. The 2016 has a subtle single concave. Either way you can't go wrong, you're going to love it.
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Hi Kayadogg,
Yes, I can hardly wait to get it. Genna is coming out my way in mid May, so supposed to be getting it then. But I have a chance to meet her a few hours away and pick it up at the end of this month. Am just hoping it stops snowing long enough for the roads to clear up so I can make the trip and get it at the end of March!
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New vid from Dave featuring an in-depth look at the 2017 Infinity Whiplash. Enjoy.
http://bit.ly/InfinityWhiplash
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thats nice!
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New vid from Dave featuring an in-depth look at the 2017 Infinity Whiplash. Enjoy.
http://bit.ly/InfinityWhiplash
Just got my first Whiplash (a 2016). And now I want another one ;D ;D
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New vid from Dave featuring an in-depth look at the 2017 Infinity Whiplash. Enjoy.
http://bit.ly/InfinityWhiplash
I had another look at the video, and have also paddled my board a bit more. My board is a 2016, custom built Whiplash.
After watching the video there are a few things on the 2017 that I would like on my board. To start with, I like the option to mount the life guard style handle mounts. I have one of these on my Lahui Kai, and while I don’t use it often, I do find it comes in handy. I find myself mostly using it to carry the board. Is just that one extra hand hold point that sometimes comes in handy.
The FCS plug would also be nice. I don’t have a Go Pro, but I might use it for my Speed Coach. In any case, would be a nice option to have.
Reinforced rails and deck. Well, it’s always nice to have a stronger board. My board feels pretty solid, but it is very light. I’ve measured on two different scales. The first gave me a weight of 20.8 pounds and the second showed a weight of 21.4. No matter which is correct, this is still a very light board.
More volume in the nose and changes to the bottom. Not sure on this. I would need to paddle it before making any determination. I really like how my board paddles. I haven’t had it out in any kind of chop yet, but on flat water it is definitely my favourite board. Would need to be convinced with a trial run before I wanted these changes.
The only change to the 2017 board that I’m pretty sure I would not like is the flat deck. My board has the side rails coming up just a bit. I’ve always liked at least a bit of a recessed deck, with raised side rails. Just wouldn’t want a completely flat deck.
So there you have it. If I could take my board, and add the life guard style handle mounts and the FCS plug, that would be about the perfect board for me. And I suppose it would be nice to have the extra reinforcing. Again, my board feels really solid, and I love that it’s so light. Am just a little concerned about how durable it really is given how light it is.
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I'd like to paddle the 16 and 17 back to back just to see what the difference in bottom shapes feels like. The flat deck of the 2017 annoys me, I just don't get it. It's not a surf race board, Candace may use it for that but everyone else is on a blackfish. She was also on a blackfish at the race in Maui earlier this year too. I'm a little less annoyed at the weight on my 17, there is a very real difference in stiffness and I would bet durability between it and my other boards.I'd probably trade 2 or 3 pounds though. My sidewinder and v3 are both under 24 pounds and are just fine. My only real true gripe with the board is that the handle sucks, it's terrible. Way too flexy making it a pain in the ass to carry level. I'm not a huge fan of strap handles in general but 404 does theirs right.
With all that it's still my favorite board. Its fast andby far the best turning, three fins and a ventral and it spins around on a dime without back foot placement needing to be perfect. Cut out some deck and give it a good handle and it would be exactly what I'd want.
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My only real true gripe with the board is that the handle sucks, it's terrible. Way too flexy making it a pain in the ass to carry level. I'm not a huge fan of strap handles in general but 404 does theirs right.
I agree on the handle. The first time I used it I regretted not asking Dave to install something
like SIC's EZgrip or the sup-grip Blue Planet sells. Small thing indeed but something to consider
if you're getting a custom.
As for the flat deck, I used to prefer it over the recessed but now I'm more in favor of the
Hybrid approach starting recessed at the standing area transitioning to flat towards the back,
Like my Blackfish only deeper.
I found the recessed deck helping to my better stance and preventing over-steering due to
unusual rail pressure on the paddling side.
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As for the flat deck, I used to prefer it over the recessed but now I'm more in favor of the
Hybrid approach starting recessed at the standing area transitioning to flat towards the back,
I found the recessed deck helping to my better stance
I am with you there.
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I actually don’t mind the handle. At least, I don’t find it as bad as I at first thought I would. I have had a couple of Bark boards and they have the same style handle, but longer. I really don’t like the handles on the Bark. Find they get in the way on the board, but I find the handle on the Whiplash is small enough that it’s not as big an issue as I thought it might be.
That said, my favourite handle is still the LiftsUp handle I’ve got on my Lahui Kai. I know a lot of people have a real hate on for the LiftsUp handle, but for my purposes, I really like it. I suppose it helps that I am very seldom around sand with my board, so there is nothing to get in and jam the handle.
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I actually don’t mind the handle. At least, I don’t find it as bad as I at first thought I would. I have had a couple of Bark boards and they have the same style handle, but longer. I really don’t like the handles on the Bark. Find they get in the way on the board, but I find the handle on the Whiplash is small enough that it’s not as big an issue as I thought it might be.
That said, my favourite handle is still the LiftsUp handle I’ve got on my Lahui Kai. I know a lot of people have a real hate on for the LiftsUp handle, but for my purposes, I really like it. I suppose it helps that I am very seldom around sand with my board, so there is nothing to get in and jam the handle.
1) I removed the long handle on my Bark Vapor and use only the one built in. So there is nothing getting in the way
2) I have no problem with the handle on my Balckfish once I upgraded it to the latest model
3) The issue with the Liftsup is that if you are downwinding and need a quick purchase on the handle to get the board. Well it is not there... and if it is really cold and you have gloves or just do not want to fish for it in the cold...
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Hey Luc,
I also removed the long handle on my Bark Contender, which is fine for moving around the board. But then all I’m left with is the finger hold handle, and I really don’t like that handle either. It’s obviously O.K. for moving around the board, but I just don’t find it a comfortable handle when using it to walk with or handle the board. Funny thing is that on my Bark Competitor, I don’t find the long handle gets in the way as much. Not sure why but just isn’t as much a problem.
And I get the part about the LiftSup handle being a problem in down wind conditions, but I don’t downwind, or at least haven’t to date, so for me it’s not a problem.
Am also curious about your comments on the “upgraded” Blackfish handle. I’m assuming the new one is the same as I’ve got??? My Whiplash is the 2016. What did Infinity used to use for a handle, or is there a newer one than I’ve got?
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2016 would have the new handle - neoprene with SpeedFreaks on it. 2015 had no neoprene. Lighter but a bitch for the fingers...
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I like the handle on the 2016 WL and BF and I like the BF deck better than the WL. Would be interesting to test the 2017 WL & BF both boards with ventral/probox twins.
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The flat deck of the 2017 annoys me, I just don't get it. It's not a surf race board, Candace may use it for that but everyone else is on a blackfish. She was also on a blackfish at the race in Maui earlier this year too. I'm a little less annoyed at the weight on my 17, there is a very real difference in stiffness and I would bet durability between it and my other boards.I'd probably trade 2 or 3 pounds though. My sidewinder and v3 are both under 24 pounds and are just fine. My only real true gripe with the board is that the handle sucks, it's terrible. Way too flexy making it a pain in the ass to carry level. I'm not a huge fan of strap handles in general but 404 does theirs right.
warmuth, a lot of people do actually use the Whiplash in surf races, especially the 2016 and 2017 models as they have moved away from the true displacement bow into more of a hybrid design. I understand not liking a flat deck though, it's a personal preference. I have a custom 2016 and at the time, Dave was making most with a recessed deck but I asked for a flat deck because that's what I prefer. Just curious what it is about the flat deck that you don't like?
For the handle, it's very easy to remove it and position the screws closer together (through the strap) so it makes the handle lay much flatter to the board. I've done this on a few of mine as I like a handle to be as low profile as possible but still highly prefer the strap handle to an insert handle.
Quickbeam, glad to hear you're enjoying your new board but can't say I'm surprised. If you have a competent repair person near you, they should be able to add screw inserts for an additional handle and also a FCS plug very easily. Those are pretty basic add-ons. If not, it's something you could even tackle yourself.
Here's the new vid on the 2017 Blackfish. Enjoy 8)
https://vimeo.com/212653099
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The flat deck of the 2017 annoys me, I just don't get it. It's not a surf race board, Candace may use it for that but everyone else is on a blackfish. She was also on a blackfish at the race in Maui earlier this year too. I'm a little less annoyed at the weight on my 17, there is a very real difference in stiffness and I would bet durability between it and my other boards.I'd probably trade 2 or 3 pounds though. My sidewinder and v3 are both under 24 pounds and are just fine. My only real true gripe with the board is that the handle sucks, it's terrible. Way too flexy making it a pain in the ass to carry level. I'm not a huge fan of strap handles in general but 404 does theirs right.
warmuth, a lot of people do actually use the Whiplash in surf races, especially the 2016 and 2017 models as they have moved away from the true displacement bow into more of a hybrid design. I understand not liking a flat deck though, it's a personal preference. I have a custom 2016 and at the time, Dave was making most with a recessed deck but I asked for a flat deck because that's what I prefer. Just curious what it is about the flat deck that you don't like?
For the handle, it's very easy to remove it and position the screws closer together (through the strap) so it makes the handle lay much flatter to the board. I've done this on a few of mine as I like a handle to be as low profile as possible but still highly prefer the strap handle to an insert handle.
Quickbeam, glad to hear you're enjoying your new board but can't say I'm surprised. If you have a competent repair person near you, they should be able to add screw inserts for an additional handle and also a FCS plug very easily. Those are pretty basic add-ons. If not, it's something you could even tackle yourself.
Here's the new vid on the 2017 Blackfish. Enjoy 8)
https://vimeo.com/212653099
Personal preference with a recessed deck, for me I have no reason not to be closer to the water, I'd rather gain stability than have a flat rail. I wasn't aware of the change to the deck when I ordered my board or I'd have spec'd it.
Ive already shortened the handle, its better than it was but still lacking when compared to a handle that works well. I like recessed handles over straps but I would rather have the 404 type strap that is stiff and won't twist in my hand. All of my other boards are easier to carry.
Nitpicks and opinions aside, it's my favorite board.
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warmuth, is the handle on your Infinity the newer neoprene style or the older style that is just "fabric"?
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Neoprene, mines a 2017. Its not a deal breaker by any means and I can carry the board, it's a handle, I just find all my other boards to be easier to carry owing strictly to that.
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Regardless of the handle, if I had the $$$ I would love to upgrade my 2015 Blackfish 14x26 for a 2017 Blackfish 14x25.
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Regardless of the handle, if I had the $$$ I would love to upgrade my 2015 Blackfish 14x26 for a 2017 Blackfish 14x25.
I hear you, after seeing the video I wanted one my self then reminded I already
Do.
But it n all seriousness, if that production board was available back when I
ordered my custom, I might have gone with the production, though I still like
My modified nose better and have some other nice tweaks the production doesn't
Have.
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So many great choices now for all water race boards. I think the Blackfish 25 is rising to the top of my next board list. At first I thought the 4 fin set up might be a gimmick, but I am beginning to be a believer from what I am reading. I prefer a planing nose, but like a board that is fast in the flats. Want it narrow, but very stable in confused boat chop. Want it to be a pleasure on a downbreezer and track well. Seems like the Blackfish is checking all of the boxes and rising to the top of my next board list!!
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So many great choices now for all water race boards. I think the Blackfish 25 is rising to the top of my next board list. At first I thought the 4 fin set up might be a gimmick, but I am beginning to be a believer from what I am reading. I prefer a planing nose, but like a board that is fast in the flats. Want it narrow, but very stable in confused boat chop. Want it to be a pleasure on a downbreezer and track well. Seems like the Blackfish is checking all of the boxes and rising to the top of my next board list!!
Yes I feel the same. The added speed on flat for 2017 would fit perfectly in my quiver. Now with the CAD at 1.38 against the USD plus the shipping, a new board is regretfully out of question....
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So many great choices now for all water race boards. I think the Blackfish 25 is rising to the top of my next board list. At first I thought the 4 fin set up might be a gimmick, but I am beginning to be a believer from what I am reading. I prefer a planing nose, but like a board that is fast in the flats. Want it narrow, but very stable in confused boat chop. Want it to be a pleasure on a downbreezer and track well. Seems like the Blackfish is checking all of the boxes and rising to the top of my next board list!!
You really can't go wrong with the Blackfish. Very different than the FX but overall
Slightly more versatile and the 4 fins is the icing on the cake.
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Burchas, how do you like the Blackfish as compared to your FX. If you could choose one current allwater 14 board, what would it be?
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Burchas, how do you like the Blackfish as compared to your FX. If you could choose one current allwater 14 board, what would it be?
I think the Blackfish is more versatile board so it's a better "All Conditions"
board IMO.
The FX feels more natural to me in rough water due to its "rolly"
behavior that i've grown to like but the Blackfish is better in rough water
due to a better volume distribution. The FX is a faster board in flat water.
If I was on the market today and I had to choose between the 2, I would
go with the Blackfish, however, knowing the SIC RS is out there, I might hold
off and try to get ride on it.
But if I'm being honest with myself, after riding the production 2017 Blackfish,
I would probably go the easiest route and purchase it. It's a very good board
but different enough to be another step in the learning curve of understanding
different shapes.
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Burchas, I really appreciate the feedback. Getting a test ride is proving impossible. That is a problem for our sport. I like the sounds of the Blackfish. I mostly paddle a large freshwater lake. At times it can be flat, but more often it is filled with confused boat wake, which can be a challenge on a narrow board. I weigh about 205 and I think managed the FX well at 25 inches wide, but to be honest a bit more stability in confused chop would be nice. I was thinking the Allstar 14 x 24.5, but now I am beginning to think the Blackfish 14 x 25 might be the better option. I have heard several comments that the Blackfish is the most stable board for its given width. Dave Boehne even mentions that you can ride a size lower than you are used to. I hear you about the FX being faster on flats, but I am guessing that there is not too much difference. Right? And if the blackfish is better in roughs and more stable then it may be a wash. I agree with Area10 and others that your endurance will be better if your stability is better. There is a point of diminishing returns for going narrow. I am more into training for exercise and the pure enjoyment of paddling, but I go pretty hard for my age. My race pace is a about 5.1-5.2 in mixed conditions. Nothing to brag about, but respectable. I might race 2-3 times per year, but I do like to keep up with or pass my training partners. I am beginning to mature enough to admit that I don't actually want or need the very fastest shape, due to the trade offs. The FX is a great board, but I am ready for a change. The versatility of the fin combinations would give me more options to find the optimal set up for me. I wonder what if any changes are anticipated for the 2018 Blackfish?
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I wonder what if any changes are anticipated for the 2018 Blackfish?
I hope there will be a lot of changes, so 2017 Blackfish become widely available on the used market :-)
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Rideordie, no doubt you'll feel the difference in stability with the Blackfish over
the FX with the same width, not to mention the difference when you'll add twins
and ventral to the mix.
I usually do away with the twins and just save them for races, where I'll go with
all 4 but very shallow.
Just like you I've matured and came to realization that I don't need the fastest
board but rather the board that is the most amount of fun. The Blackfish is certainly
a lot of fun. I like it better on downwind and bumpy upwind than the FX.
The reason I went with a 24" is only because SUP is still my main workout and
I still need the challenge and keep my legs engaged. I'm almost certain that
I would be faster on a 25" wide in a course such as the Graveyard.
As for 2018, don't hold your breath. Dave is constantly tweaking and testing
the shape throughout the year. My board was manufactured towards the end
of last year and yet the production saw some minor changes since my board's
release ( minor rail angle and another area of re-enforcement ).
If you're ready for a new board I'd say pull the trigger. It make no sense to wait
and see what's around the corner. The one thing I was certain about is that no
matter which board I'll choose, the biggest differentiator in speed and performance
will be my level of technic and training.
The other thing I'm certain about is that no matter how great the board is, if
You're a gear freak like me, you'll end up contemplating your next board around
the same time next year ;)
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Burchas,
I agree with everything you said. Why do you hold off on the four fins only until race time? I don't follow.
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Burchas,
I agree with everything you said. Why do you hold off on the four fins only until race time? I don't follow.
To get a better workout for the legs and work the balance.
The Blackfish is already a very stable board, even at 24".
So I usually ride it with the ventral and Larry Allison's
Dolphin Junior fin which is 7.5" deep and 47sqi.
Then on race day, when I mount the twins, the board feels
extra stable and I'm able to drop the center fin to a 6" shallow
fin or even a 4" fin and rip all the benefits the 4 fin setup allows
with the ability to hammer extra hard.
I also use the twins in the winter, when conditions get somewhat
sketchy and I want to avoid the 35fr water.
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Thanks. Now I get it. That says a lot about the 24 inch board's stability. I think for me 25 should be about right.
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Thanks. Now I get it. That says a lot about the 24 inch board's stability. I think for me 25 should be about right.
Chiming in here to agree. This is the right conclusion based on your posts above. I'm about 210-215 and paddle my 26" BF almost everyday open-ocean. I think I've fallen off twice. Was looking for 24 or 25 but since I was in the used market I had to go with what was available. Still a very fun board. Sleek and stable.
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Bulky,
I appreciate the view from a fellow XL size paddler. Given your choice in width on the Blackfish, what would you choose? A 25 also?
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imo for 210-215 I would go 27". I'm 180 with 26" and its great in all conditions.
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Bulky,
I appreciate the view from a fellow XL size paddler. Given your choice in width on the Blackfish, what would you choose? A 25 also?
Depends on your balance and comfort level. Probably the 25, but I sure would be tempted with the 24. I'm on the 26 and I never fall off, I don't think the jump down 2" is that big and I'd really like to see what the tradeoff would be in speed.
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I am 6' - 170 lbs.
I had both 2015 Blackfish in 26" and 24".
The 24" was faster on flat water, the 26" is faster on choppy/rough water (for me).
The 24" was very stable in the sense that I did not fall.
To me the real criteria was not "falling in or not falling in", but efficiency.
With the 24" my legs would complain after 2~3 km and would be toasted after 6km.
I could likely improved on this by paddling only the 24" and not my other wider boards.
I decided against this and sold the 24" (to a local pro paddler that is having a blast with it) to focus instead on the quality of my stroke using boards that are easier for me to paddle.
By product of this is that I am getting faster on the 26" not as fast as I could be on teh 24" but faster than before :-) and I am back to paddles over 12km without crying like a baby....
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Bulky and Luc, sounds like the 25 would split the difference between fast and sensible. That's about where I need to be. Narrow is fast and fun, until it is not. Thanks for the insights. Now I have to justify spending $1000 more versus the hybrid Allstar. Is it worth the extra money to have the Blackfish? I am struggling a bit.
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Bulky and Luc, sounds like the 25 would split the difference between fast and sensible. That's about where I need to be. Narrow is fast and fun, until it is not. Thanks for the insights. Now that I have the width sorted I need to justify spending $1000 more versus the hybrid Allstar. Is it worth the extra money to have the Blackfish? I am struggling a bit.
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Bulky and Luc, sounds like the 25 would split the difference between fast and sensible. That's about where I need to be. Narrow is fast and fun, until it is not. Thanks for the insights. Now that I have the width sorted I need to justify spending $1000 more versus the hybrid Allstar. Is it worth the extra money to have the Blackfish? I am struggling a bit.
I think the difference is more like $700 in price but the weight difference is
more like 6-7 pounds. What do you think, worth it or not?
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When it comes to money only you can decide.
I personally did not like the 2016 AllStar and to me the 2017 goes in the wrong direction too much volume compressed in too narrow a board. I am not looking for high heels but for running shoes.... Also I am assuming that the extra $1,000 is based on the fibreglass allstar versus the carbon BF? For me for flat water, a lighter board feels better. In chops does not matter as much.
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Luc, you are right on point about that board. I was thinking the same thing. I think a lot of people would prefer the more stable 2016 25 Allstar to 2017 24.5 one. Volume does seem a bit excessive too. Right, I was referring to the cheaper construction, but it is fairly light. Less than 2 pounds more than the full carbon. Something about the spooney planing nose and high stability in a narrow shape drawing me to the Blackfish. And those parallel rails. Just seems like it would suit my preferences well. I think I am talking myself into it. I wonder where would be the closest dealer where it could get a test ride? I live near Columbia, SC.
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I wonder where would be the closest dealer where it could get a test ride? I live near Columbia, SC.
Easy to find out, just give a call to Infinity or PM Infinity or Dave on FB. They are always good at answering and they should know better than anybody else their (growing) distribution network. I am in Canada so by definition far away from all the action....
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I'm not sure this adds to the discussion here, but I'm playing with a fence between the twin fins on my blackfish and going as small as available for the two side fins. The fence is just a nub-shaped bit of .030 aluminum about six inches long pushed to the back of the box. Stability isn't great, but speed is ridiculous and directional stability is good. My blackfish is a 2015, 14' X 25". I suspect that the 2017 with the big channel will be even more stable and benefit more from low drag and whatever the heck those fins are doing. I need more testing time and some other paddlers to see if this is all real, but the speed differences I'm getting are remarkable.
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I'm not sure this adds to the discussion here, but I'm playing with a fence between the twin fins on my blackfish and going as small as available for the two side fins. The fence is just a nub-shaped bit of .030 aluminum about six inches long pushed to the back of the box. Stability isn't great, but speed is ridiculous and directional stability is good. My blackfish is a 2015, 14' X 25". I suspect that the 2017 with the big channel will be even more stable and benefit more from low drag and whatever the heck those fins are doing. I need more testing time and some other paddlers to see if this is all real, but the speed differences I'm getting are remarkable.
Hi Bill,
Do you mind showing your "fence". I have been following this and planning to try to replicate and try this on flat water with the two elliptical.
Thanks
Luc
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Burchas, agree on price between boards , but I saw that the quote was without fins. Another $300+ for the fin package. Right? Geez, did not realize there was that much difference in weight. That is huge!!
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I'm not sure this adds to the discussion here, but I'm playing with a fence between the twin fins on my blackfish and going as small as available for the two side fins. The fence is just a nub-shaped bit of .030 aluminum about six inches long pushed to the back of the box. Stability isn't great, but speed is ridiculous and directional stability is good. My blackfish is a 2015, 14' X 25". I suspect that the 2017 with the big channel will be even more stable and benefit more from low drag and whatever the heck those fins are doing. I need more testing time and some other paddlers to see if this is all real, but the speed differences I'm getting are remarkable.
The 2017 is supposed to be less stable and a bit faster on flat water. Probably aiming directly at the all star as everyone ditches their flat water boards.
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The 2017 is supposed to be less stable and a bit faster on flat water. Probably aiming directly at the all star as everyone ditches their flat water boards.
What I heard directly from a female Infinity rider (she's very light) :
2016 most stable
2015 and 2017 faster than 2016 but a little bit less stable
2017 fastest of all on flat and about as stable as 2015 or very slightly less
Of course this would vary by individual...
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Bulky and Luc, sounds like the 25 would split the difference between fast and sensible. That's about where I need to be. Narrow is fast and fun, until it is not. Thanks for the insights. Now I have to justify spending $1000 more versus the hybrid Allstar. Is it worth the extra money to have the Blackfish? I am struggling a bit.
Sounds like the right conclusion. Luc might be measuring in Canadian inches anyway ;)
Pono +1. I trust you'll be showing us a picture shortly.
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Burchas, agree on price between boards , but I saw that the quote was without fins. Another $300+ for the fin package. Right? Geez, did not realize there was that much difference in weight. That is huge!!
Weight difference is huge, mine is actually 8LBS lighter at 19.5LBS
But as I understood it from dave, those new production boards are
coming at around 21LBS due to extra reinforcement.
As for the fins, If you'll talk to Larry I think you'll end up spending a
lot less than $300, depends on what you're going for.
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Wow!! That is really light. I am paddling my trusty old 2012 Glide GS, since I sold my FX. That sucker has got to weigh close to 35 lbs. Heavy lay up. It's a pig to carry.
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Wow!! That is really light. I am paddling my trusty old 2012 Glide GS, since I sold my FX. That sucker has got to weigh close to 35 lbs. Heavy lay up. It's a pig to carry.
35lbs is heavy though an extra weight can be good on some board's.
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I'm not sure this adds to the discussion here, but I'm playing with a fence between the twin fins on my blackfish and going as small as available for the two side fins. The fence is just a nub-shaped bit of .030 aluminum about six inches long pushed to the back of the box. Stability isn't great, but speed is ridiculous and directional stability is good. My blackfish is a 2015, 14' X 25". I suspect that the 2017 with the big channel will be even more stable and benefit more from low drag and whatever the heck those fins are doing. I need more testing time and some other paddlers to see if this is all real, but the speed differences I'm getting are remarkable.
Ok I am going to try the PonoBill "paradigm".
I had tried it briefly with a center fin but I now made my own "fence" out of an old OEM fin.
Way too thick but for now.
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A nubster center fin on a raceboard!
Whuda think it!
Any real world data yet?
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Any real world data yet?
No scientific data and my wife will tell you that I am often on a world of my own :-)
I took the board to Bunzen lake this morning and ran 6km with this setup. Regretfully at 4.5km, the wind started to really pick-up and I was not able to change the centre nub to a Stinger and make a direct comparison in teh same conditions.
I did notice that I had to push the ventral all the way to the front of the box and this improved both tracking and trimming of the nose.
The board felt good but on a lake....everything will feel good.
Attached is a non scientific comparison of the average of the three fastest 1km x 3 on several paddle runs at different times and places so not a real direct comparison. Fluke or not, this setup came out at the fastest (by a tiny, tiny bit) than other runs. This is just enough to make me want to sand the centre nub to a lower thickness and try again another day fro a direct comparison.
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Changes after discussion with PonoBill.
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Interesting. What happens to rail steer when you go to twins rather than a centre fin?
And buoy turns?
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Interesting. What happens to rail steer when you go to twins rather than a centre fin?
And buoy turns?
I do not know, I do not do buoy turns. I like a race that goes from a to b, for a reasonable distance and with nice scenery.
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:)
Even better, a paddle from a to b through fine scenery that isn't a race at all :)
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Thanks Luc.
A twin fun with a nub faster than a single fin.
MR figured that out, Shaun didn't on surfboards back in the day!
I know how much I fuss with fins on my surf sups and on my raceboards with just one.
Madness! Gotta love it though!
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Interesting. What happens to rail steer when you go to twins rather than a centre fin?
And buoy turns?
It depends which twins you're using. With the stealth twins all of the above works well.
I would never go without the center fin anyway, board would not accelerate and no
forward momentum. Even with this setup shown above, I found the forward momentum
lacking on my FX, haven't tried it on the Blackfish yet but I don't think it's going to make
a big difference. I'll wait for Luc's data. should be interesting.
I did some tryout with the setup below and it was pretty fast and the board was still loose.
These are the twins (4x9) with a matching center fin.
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:)
Even better, a paddle from a to b through fine scenery that isn't a race at all :)
;D That is call a Sunday morning ;)
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Thanks Luc.
It was Bill that made the potential discovery.
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I would never go without the center fin anyway, board would not accelerate and no
forward momentum. Even with this setup shown above, I found the forward momentum
lacking on my FX
I do not have these but would have liked to try them.
Regarding the forward momentum, it is still difficult to say. When I tried before with the small ventral, one day I was skimming over the water like if there was no weight to the board and one day it felt like I had less momentum indeed. I am wondering if water conditions does have an effect.
Yesterday, definitely moving the ventral forward had a positive effect.
I checked distance per stroke and it was pretty good. Moving the ventral forward also seem to have smoothed the values with less variance between long and short.
My gut feeling is that the ventral forward takes over what the centre fins was doing more effectively (tracking and projection).