Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: linter on November 20, 2016, 12:47:10 PM
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for the life o me, i can't kick out of a ride the way most SUPers do -- ie, still standing and ready to paddle back to the line up. instead, i flop off or fall to my knees or -- well, whatever it is i do, it's ugly as sin, if not uglier. makes even my best rides look and feel bad.
my balance makes standing exits impossible. that being the case, are there any other graceful ways to leave a wave?
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You just need to keep practicing. If you are able to turn while on the wave, you should be able to turn up and over it. I'm pretty sure that's the only way. Maybe it's the board you are using.
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i'm looking for something different that the standing exit. don't want to get into the 'more practice needed' thing. in fact, just assume i can do it and am trying to find alternatives.
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I see. It's a balance thing. I didn't realize you've been standup surfing since the dawn of the sport. You have a lot more experience than me.
I guess if it were me I'd just start the pull out and put my hands and maybe one knee on the deck for stability until I got over the wave and was able to stand again.
I'm sure there will be more opinions. What are you riding?
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You can do a longboard exit--turn out hard, step back and let the board come up to you. Catch it with both hands--rail with one, just fending off and stabilizing with the paddle hand--and go to your knees as the board drops back to the water, facing back out and ready to Pocahontas. I do this a lot in bigger waves because you have to step back more and turn harder to get out of the wave. I generally don't have the balance to get back to the middle of the board in the turbulence.
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if i could do the trad longboard kick out, i'd be ***psyched***. by any chance, do you know of any vids showing it done? in all that i've seen, i can't recall one. can you?
I mean, i know what to do from your words but i'd sure love to see a demonstration.
badger: way to make me feel old, man, ha!
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I don't know of any videos, but it's a pretty straightforward thing. Get some longboarder to show you, any good one knows it cold.
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i'm looking for something different that the standing exit. don't want to get into the 'more practice needed' thing. in fact, just assume i can do it and am trying to find alternatives.
Try the Hawaiian pullout (or island pullout). Also a longboard move that's easier to do on smaller less powerful waves as they close out. Walk to the nose of the board, pearl the nose as you turn into the wave, let the tail come around, crouch down a little, punch through as you take strong paddle stroke, boom, you're out the back.
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i've attempted a standing island pull out before but, of course, i never come out the other end still standing. usually ends up looking half assed.
bill: i know the move, i've just never seen it done with a big ass 10'x31" SUP, with rails that don't cut through water like a longboard's rails do, etc. that said, i'm going to start giving it a try.
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Linter: You're right about not much on vid's as far as kickoff footage. I just fall off every which way 80% of the time.....it keeps me cooled off. :)
Personally, I like the way Creek exits waves sometimes....by going off the back end and kicking the board up and over sorta sideways. I recall seeing a couple examples in his clips. I think its especially useful after the wave closes out and (to me) looks kinda cool.
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I have problems doing it too, that moment of instability as you go over the back gets me. I know you don't want to hear this but exit a little earlier before the wave starts to close...the smoother exit makes it easier to do. Carry as much speed as you can on your last drop and turn up and over the shoulder. If you're moving fast you never get much instability and what little there is gets taken care of by the paddle since you'll be stroking hard to get over the one behind it. The only times I make it clean is when I do that....and it feels like you finished the wave instead of bailing.
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i've attempted a standing island pull out before but, of course, i never come out the other end still standing. usually ends up looking half assed.
bill: i know the move, i've just never seen it done with a big ass 10'x31" SUP, with rails that don't cut through water like a longboard's rails do, etc. that said, i'm going to start giving it a try.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem with it. You can compensate by turning much harder than a longboarder would. It's a casual move for a longboarder, much more dynamic for a SUP surfer.
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I think the problem is what you perceive yourself to look like when you kick out. I still dive over the back of the wave sometimes. That just comes from prone surfing. As it closes out, you make a split second decision to either kickout, try to smack the lip and make a hard cutback (mostly in my dreams) or outrun it. With prone surfing you can jump over the back of the wave. Do as Bean and Pono said with long board, or outrun the closeout then turn into the white water and dive over the top of it. You can do the same thing on a SUP, it's OK. Everyone who prone surfed before they SUP surfed does or did the same thing. Supping does give you more options at the end of a wave. As Stoney said, plan for you exit and maintain enough speed to do so. The reason we can finish still standing on a SUP is because of the paddle. The paddle is your handrail to grab on to. Your Ama. Your pole to swing around. Your brace. No matter if I'm kicking out, or stalling with my tail to let the white water pass, I stay up right because I'm bracing big time off of my paddle.
Bracing is a skill in it's own right. Separate from paddling, bracing encompasses many elements. Sometimes you just need a touch, like a cats whiskers. So you feather the blade allowing it to softly glide flat across the surface with just enough resistance to check your balance. Then there is the get low and and lay the paddle as flat as possible to give you maximum bracing to regain your balance. Sometimes this is blended with an almost reverse stroke to add braking as part of your attempt to regain your balance. And combinations there of. What ever it takes for you to stay upright as you kick out. I almost think of it as a stall. I bury my paddle as I turn my board out the back, and then just pause a moment with my paddle still anchored in the water. Using the force of the passing water against it to provide a solid brace that I can use to re-compose myself and start back out.
Of course, if you happened to take the first wave in the set, it's sometimes pointless. You're going to end up swimming anyway as the remaining set waves pound you...
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Yes definitely the paddle as Talldude said and get low when feeling out of balance.
Also spend a day at Malibu first point in the summer. It's a clinic on kickouts and bikinis. Better than a video.
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I see a lot of guys wait until they are almost at a dead stop or the wave has phased out to kick out. With a larger sup this is especially hard... Use your speed and glide on the wave and momentum to help you kick out.
Personally I like kicking out at a nice speed which takes me out of the wave and pointing directly back at sea and I use the glide to get me back out to the lineup fast. This has helped me from getting cleaned up many , many times.
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Wait for the good ones and kick out early was advice from Gerry Lopez.
Like carribe just said . You can maintain some speed and miss the bone zone at a beachbreak - sometimes!
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Lately I've been making an effort to try to hit the lip and make a hard cutback on my longer 10' board. I think that looks so cool to hit the lip with a big board. Consiquently, the end of most of my rides are under water:) You don't get better without trying.
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So you're saying "my dead stop face plant" move is less than stylish? ;)
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I kick out when its over and not before. If I am not done, I bash the lip and kick out in the white water.
I like to maintain board speed when going over and paddle as soon as possible. We are not prone paddling, so try
to remain upright.
You need to have a good kick out option both frontside and backside. Learn both.
I don't see why I would kick out early, unless
Someone is in the way
The guy deeper made it and I need to get out of the way
or something better is behind and no one is on it.
Wife just tole me to come home and deal with the bear. How much fun is that.
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I believe the advice to kick out early from Gerry Lopez is to eliminate getting caught inside and taking an unnecessary beating either from the wave closing out or approaching BEEG wans.
Ask Gerry!
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well, i don't have to learn how to kick out backside 'cause i don't go backside. problem solved!
i think several of you have hit on my real prob w/ kicking out: waiting too long to do it, with insufficient speed to get 'er done. plus, well, i got shit for balance and despite lots of paddle bracing etc etc, i'm usually a floundering fool.
if i can get pono's method down, i'd be happy. i don't surf big waves and it sounds perfect for my go-to stuff.
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Just for fun. Go up up to the schnozz. Do the Quasimodo squat with a bounce while grabbing the outside rail and put pressure on the inside rail. Voila a small wave pullout on a sup.
Also works in hollower conditions - sometimes! Mary's will never be the same.. 8) 8)
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Just for fun. Go up up to the schnozz. Do the Quasimodo squat with a bounce while grabbing the outside rail and put pressure on the inside rail. Voila a small wave pullout on a sup.
Also works in hollower conditions - sometimes! Mary's will never be the same.. 8) 8)
yeah well that assumes i can bend down like that. not a chance. stiff as a plank.
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Oh well. There is a video of J Kimbler on u tube doing a standing Hawaiian pullout on a sup. My i net illiteracy along with my windows phone keeps me from posting it. If I could find it anyone can worth watching..
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmae879RUNc
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Many thanks Badgemeister! 8) 8)
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Adding to the excellent advice of kicking out earlier & really getting practiced with your bracing, I'd recommend going SHORT on your paddle if you haven't yet. I was a couple inches overhead for a while, just went to forehead height & am amazed by the improvement in stability & control.
It's really noticeable in that moment of instability when kicking out of a wave, and you're still in surf stance with the tail weighted... I used to fall a lot at the moment (let's be honest, still do). However, the shorter paddle is that much easier to plant into the water and allow you to come out of the hole, so to speak.
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I've been searching lots of vids in hopes of finding something helpful....nuttin...
I did find this one - Good Lord, looks like a really good way to hurt someone or at the very least give one a good solid concussion. :o
https://youtu.be/OtGo5pFZFbY
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WS, kicking the board back over the wave is necessary and actually the right way to go especially if you are surfing without a leash. You do need to see where you are shooting the board, but it can save a swim (in which case you will be in the way of other surfers) and also avoid hitting someone on the inside with a loose board.
One of the most important surfing rules is, you must maintain control of your board at all times. The line up would much rather have a good surfer who surfs without a leash but maintains control of his board than a Barney with a leash who throws his board indiscriminately.
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A kickout is just an extended bottom turn and then just keep going out the back.
Bottom turn:
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i love looking at a good longboard kickout. it's got a certain kind of class. but what i need now is for pono to get his diane to shoot a vid of him doing it. come on, bill!
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You're going to have to wait a while. She's in Hood River with a new puppy, I'm in Maui with the wind howling.
It's the easiest kickout really, Just step back to the tail to make a deep 180 bottom turn, and just stay there when the turn finishes so the board comes up to you. Just remember to catch it with your hands instead of your face.
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I want to add that a great summer day at Malibu will change your head about style. I should try to shoot some video the next swell after I'm worn out.
Linter, I'd offer that experimenting like Tall Dude says is kind of the best way to figure it out. I'd start by stepping all the way back and blowing it a few times, over turning. After a few falls you'll make one and that's all it takes.
In other good news, my longboard kick outs involve stiffening my back leg completely and the most stylish guys pick their front leg up so it should fit your stiff stance pretty well. I think classic upright longboard moves should be pretty adaptable for you.
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a good many trad longboard moves, well, at least im working on them. i'll get some kind of kickout done right at some point. no matter how good i do on a wave, it always feels like a blown ride if i don't exist cleanly. so that's a lot of blown rides!
i hear you, bill. but i still want to see a vid :0).
SC: let me know if you're coming down south this winter. i'll be in san diego for a few months starting in a week.
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Oh man, I just left SD an hour ago. I'll PM you. tThe in laws just bought a boat down there so you will be seeing my butt in SD far more often now that we have a place to stay.
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Found this surfing video that has some nice moves at ride end....stylish. Check it out:
Min:Sec
00:04
00.52
01:00
01:26.
https://youtu.be/-cRH2pH_ts0
8)
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Gosh...this one too...Cat has some smooth exits!!!
https://youtu.be/RGz8jU3b-do?t=78
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both of those vids are great. love watching alex knost surfing anything, but it's especially cool to see what he can do with crap waves.
same thing with the first video, only better, because those guys are riding little hollow snapping beach-break type surf where you gotta move fast or else. i especially like seeing the goofy foot stand up in a way forward position where it only takes one step to get toes over. i've done that a few times, it feels good, getting up there so fast.
as to the fly away kick out at the end -- i've got a friend that can do that because he's riding super-short, super-light SUPs. and he can get some serious (if dangerous) height. but on a fat and long and thick SUP like my Jimmy, I dunno. Guess it can be done and i've tried it lots with no success. I guess the trick would be to start to exit while you've still got a ton of speed.
my preferred kickout right now, and i'm sure it's as ugly as all the rest, is to pivot out and drop right to my knees, stick the paddle b/ my legs, and start hand paddling back to the line up. probably put some big dents in my board but the JLs are tough as nails, so I'm going to keep doing it. anyway, it feels better than just falling off into the soup.
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for the life o me, i can't kick out of a ride the way most SUPers do -- ie, still standing and ready to paddle back to the line up. instead, i flop off or fall to my knees or -- well, whatever it is i do, it's ugly as sin, if not uglier. makes even my best rides look and feel bad.
my balance makes standing exits impossible. that being the case, are there any other graceful ways to leave a wave?
Masters of the kickout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0nvCKGMF4Q