Standup Zone Forum
General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: magentawave on November 16, 2016, 01:08:05 PM
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Pro Marine Supplies has a great deal on eBay for 2 gallon kits of epoxy resin for only $74 with free shipping. It is TABLE TOP epoxy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/282158908847?ul_noapp=true
Does anyone know if this TABLE TOP epoxy works okay for surfboards and sups? My concern is how well it handles UV? (My board will be bright yellow.)
Thanks
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RR epoxy is about $75 a gallon, why even chance it?
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You would want to look at the data sheet to compare closely as the modulas along with other properties could change a lot. If you want to improve your board building and quality of your boards use the best products you can get and learn how they work and like to be used keep changes and variations to a minimum. It is unlikely to have all the properties of surfboard resin so you will be paying for it in other ways weather it is in ease of sanding,strength,longevity or uv stabilisers.
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Yeah, I can't see chancing a blank and all my time only to find out 6 months later that this stuff degrades in UV or can't take an impact.
There's a bottom to the price of a board. Make your blank, use cheap glass but really, resin is such a big part.
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RR epoxy is about $75 a gallon, why even chance it?
I'm not going to "chance it" until I know if it's okay to use. That's why I asked. ;) I'm also waiting to hear back from Pro Marine Supply.
IF it works then it would be the killer deal of the universe cuz it's only $74.00 for a two gallon kit - and FREE shipping.
Why not RR? Because $75 x 2 = $150.00 for two gallons and with shipping it's way too expensive on the west coast.
If that stuff isn't appropriate then I will buy Apex from Fiberglass Source in Oceanside which is close to me for $86.00 including tax for a 1.5 gallon kit. I used Apex last year and most of the glass shops in the area use it too.
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It says it is "UV resistant" so can one of you smart people tell me if the description below is enough to tell you if it's any good for boards?
DESCRIPTION:
Crystal Clear Bar Table Top Epoxy Resin Coating For Wood Tabletop - 2 Gallon Kit
UV Stable Crystal Clear Table Top System is a high performance two
component Clear epoxy system designed for Table Tops, Bars, Wood finishes, See-Through
Encapsulations, Art work, and other applications requiring a clear, strong, plastic coating specifically
designed to resist Yellowing caused by the sun and other Ultra Violet light sources.
The material has an easy to use 1 to 1 by volume mix ratio, wets out substrates well, maintains its
integrity over sharp corners, it has excellent air release qualities, and a relatively fast set time for an
epoxy coating which may be accelerated by mild heat to 160F. While this material will do much
better then competitors products for non yellowing we still do not recommend it for permanent
outdoor applications.
Advantages
100% Solids
Self Leveling, High Gloss
U.V. Resistant Formula
Excellent Air Release
Excellent Color StabilityImproved Impact Strength
Improved Surface Appearance
Early Development of Physical and Performance Properties
Produces a Tough, High Gloss, Water Resistant Coating
Eliminates Craters, Crawling and Fish Eyes
Blush Resistant
Base Resin A-Side Curing Agent B-Side
Appearance: Clear Syrup Clear Syrup
Viscosity, Spindle #4 @ 6 rpm: 12,000 (+/- 2,000) 1,150 (+/- 300)
Weight per Gallon: 9.6 Lbs. 8.0 Lbs.
Mix Ratio: 1 to 1 by Volume or 100 A to 83 B by Weight
Gel-Time (100 gr. mass): 25 minutes (+/- 5 min.)
1/4” Casting Tack Free Time: 2.5 hours (+/- 30 min.)
Thin film Set Time 4 to 8 Hours depending on thickness and ambient temperature
Full Cure 24 to 48 hours for optimum properties
Hardness 70—75 Shore D (full cure)
Elongation > 15%
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While this material will do much better then competitors products for non yellowing we still do not recommend it for permanent outdoor applications.
Thin film Set Time 4 to 8 Hours depending on thickness and ambient temperature
Those two bits would prevent me for wanting to use make me think twice about using this resin for a SUP glass job.
My enjoyment of glassing greatly improved once I stopped using 'alternate' resins and got me some RR.
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"Not recommended for outdoors"... are you out of your Vulcan mind? ;D
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I see "coating" mentioned multiple times...don't see anything about being suitable for "laminating". Not the same thing...1/2 price could lead to a half a*# outcome.🤑
Resin Research's various blends of epoxy have percent elongation of between 2.3% and 6.5 %...this stuff is saying 15% elongation.....that's 2.3% more flex than their most flexible blend and 6.5% more flexible than their stiffest blend. It might end up feeling somewhere between a hard board and an inflatable...ha 🎈
Maybe that's what starboard uses for their flexy race boards🙄.
You already knew the answer before you ever asked...do the right thing...use the right stuff...the risk reward ratio is wack. Put 10's of hours of time and $100's of dollars worth of materials at risk for $75.00?
As Dirty Harry would ask... "do you feel luck...we'll do ya?" Lol 🤔
Best of luck whatever you decide....
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We shall see but the operative words in their description was PERMANENT OUTDOOR APPLICATIONS and no surfboard or sup is permanently outdoors: "While this material will do much better then competitors products for non yellowing we still do not recommend it for permanent outdoor applications."
Maybe 15% elongation would be a good thing - like Gumby? Hopefully they will send me the modulus stuff tomorrow and I'll post it here with RR and Apex.
I will also find out more about the set time and how it works for laminating. If this stuff ends up being crap then I'll go with Apex again.
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So let me see if I understand this. You've going to spend all the time and money to make a board, but instead of using materials you know and trust, you're going to save 75 bucks and use some decoupage shit?
Yeah, sure. Sounds great.
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So let me see if I understand this. You've going to spend all the time and money to make a board, but instead of using materials you know and trust, you're going to save 75 bucks and use some decoupage shit?
Yeah, sure. Sounds great.
No, Bill, that isn't what I'm saying at all. I don't know how many more ways I can say this, but let me try again...
I am asking questions so I can determine if this product will work because that is what humans do when researching something. If I discover that this epoxy is not any good then I WILL NOT USE IT and I will use Apex instead. Got it? Good. ;)
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I'm sure it will work to some extent but it's not going to be optimised for surfboards which is what Greg designed RR for. 15% elongation sounds like enough or a warning flag to put it out of the picture to me along with the cure time!
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Resin Research's various blends of epoxy have percent elongation of between 2.3% and 6.5 %...this stuff is saying 15% elongation.....that's 2.3% more flex than their most flexible blend and 6.5% more flexible than their stiffest blend.
I jacked up that last line in my comments about elongation...it should not read percentage..; but times...as in your brand-X is 2.3 Times more flexible than RR most flexible blend (15%/6.5%= 2.3 times) and 6.5 Times more flexible than there stiffest (15%/2.3%=6.5 times)...huge difference...
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Let me rephrase this then. In the beginning of applying materials to a sport there isn't a body of R&D applied to the materials. It's worth trying anything. When something new comes along like fishnet Innegra, it's worth giving it a go. But we are a long way into using epoxy for surfboards. Considering something like epoxy that isn't even intended to wet out fiberglass, but is simply a wood finish, isn't research. You might as well be asking if you should try using epoxy glue instead of resin designed for surfboard.
No one is going to be able to look at the specifications and determine that it's going to accidentally work fine. There a host of things that go wrong when you use something specifically made for the application, even after years of testing. You'll have to try it. I give it a 99.9% chance of resulting in a wad of fiberglass hardening in your driveway. But you can use the rest to do a scrapbook finish on your coffee table.
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... I give it a 99.9% chance of resulting in a wad of fiberglass hardening in your driveway.
So, you're telling me there is a chance...
https://youtu.be/wGdhc9k07Ms
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All and more made with the stuff. All work great. Strong and durable. I'm cheap.
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The main downside is that it will yellow pretty quickly, so you have to take steps to accommodate that problem. Lately I've been having success with 303 Marine UV Protectant. Since I'm not overly concerned with looks, and I don't build boards but only for myself and friends, it's ok by me. It would be like a medium speed epoxy in terms of drying time and the stuff lays down stellar final coats. You do, if it's coolish, need to heat up the resin (not the hardener) to get it to flow through the pumps. I just use a small ceramic space heater (like 8" square) and turn it on maybe 15 mins before I'm ready for use.
As far as strength, no problem at all.
I'm assuming the great hot coats are due to the viscosity, but it would be interesting to know why the surfboard epoxy guys don't have something similar. And as to the UV thing, I have added just a few drops of translucent blue pigment to my final coat, but it hasn't really helped too much. If I weren't lazy and stupid I'd take more steps to get to the bottom of both these things. Maybe y'all can enlighten me.
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Interesting example of cost/benefit analysis by Biggreen. The table top epoxy cost him about $11 per board. If he used Research Resin it may have been as much as $26 per board. So you look at the cost of the blank, the glass, the fittings and the color. Throw in the labor and materials (brushes, sand paper, tape) and what is the risk vs the reward of saving approx $15 per board? How does he know the boards will hold up over time? Certainly not enough money to risk building a "disposable" board when I look at the risk of using a product that is not designed for building surfboards.
I hope Biggreen will give us a long term review of how these boards hold up over time.
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All and more made with the stuff. All work great. Strong and durable. I'm cheap.
(http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30927.0;attach=79391;image)
Tell us about that board, looks interesting.
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Starman. Two years and counting with regular ass beatings and no issues yet. Flew in yesterday from 3 weeks surf in Mexico and no issues on my or any of the other boards we took. Being on the Gulf Coast there is no "real" board epoxy available, so the shipping costs add up to real money for non pros like me. For the pro? No. For the budget minded or occasional builder? Yes. I have a buddy that's been using the stuff for coming on 10 yrs with no issues at all.
Subber. I've never prone surfed. But all the longboard/nose rider talk lit my fire. Two of the boards pictured are dedicated noseriders. One for me and one for a buddy. And man, we LOVE these boards. What a blast to ride! 2 strokes and your on the wave. I take a sandwich along with me and eat it while I'm hanging out on the nose and cruising along waving at the girls on the beach. I'd recommend a noserider to everyone!
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Subber. I've never prone surfed. But all the longboard/nose rider talk lit my fire. Two of the boards pictured are dedicated noseriders. One for me and one for a buddy. And man, we LOVE these boards. What a blast to ride! 2 strokes and your on the wave. I take a sandwich along with me and eat it while I'm hanging out on the nose and cruising along waving at the girls on the beach. I'd recommend a noserider to everyone!
That's what I was thinking - rad noserider - looks really flat, thin, & wide and carries that width a long way down the parallel rails.
Looks really fun!
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Right on BG!
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Biggreen Cool boards, dude, and thanks for posting them.
And to the rest of you that went full SWAYLOCK for me asking questions - go suck the big one, bitches! ;)
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Good one MW! ;D ;D
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West Coast/East Coast.
This is an addendum to this thread. I'm probably gonna have to wait until Spring to ride this board. It's 79 liters to my 79 liters bare weight. So I suspect this Winter is out until I can get out of the extra gear and back in boardshorts. 7'8"x27.25"x3.75". 21.5"nose, 17.25"tail, table top epoxy. I think it'll be a hot rod, and I like the shape for our bumpy, short period, mushy surf, but maybe too low volume for my weight, our shitty waves and bump. So if I can't find a cute sup surf girl to give it to....any takers? Free, except for shipping. Can try and destroy a cheap epoxy board, and then add comment to this thread...
Course you gotta wait till Spring
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I'm gonna put my bid in now, but I fully concede to either a surfer girl, or another zoner who can underweigh me.
Keep us posted man. I love your work. I'm about to start another 7'6" prone board and it's true, shipping will eat you up. I pick up my resin locally and although it's higher here and I pay tax it's still cheaper than shipping it in from just 2 states away.
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Being away from my shop, I found a local supplier (San Diego) of surfboard epoxy and bought a gallon, along with fast and medium hardener and a bunch of carbon and glass. I'm making some flat molded carbon/fiberglass sandwich plates for an experiment. I'm used to using RR, and the stuff I bought is driving me nuts. Higher viscosity, slow wet out, pulls like hell on the fiber and makes the carbon look crappy. It's supposed to be excellent epoxy, but for me it represents new challenges to a process that's pretty fussy to begin with.
Note the uneven finish even though it was in a mold finished with 1000 grit. Hard to see, but the carbon is also racked by even the lightest brushing. This is the best of five. Not happy.
(http://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/plate.JPG)
I'm always ready to try something new, but I also need to see some potential reward for abandoning tried and true. In this case, it was impatience and convenience, and I'm paying big for it. I've already trashed a couple of hundred bucks worth of time and materials. Saving some money on epoxy that seems unsuited to start with is the last thing I'm going to try. I screw up enough as it is.
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Man, that 7-8 is beautiful! I really prefer the look of the more rounded "evo" style nose you did over the squared off nose that everyone else is doing.
West Coast/East Coast.
This is an addendum to this thread. I'm probably gonna have to wait until Spring to ride this board. It's 79 liters to my 79 liters bare weight. So I suspect this Winter is out until I can get out of the extra gear and back in boardshorts. 7'8"x27.25"x3.75". 21.5"nose, 17.25"tail, table top epoxy. I think it'll be a hot rod, and I like the shape for our bumpy, short period, mushy surf, but maybe too low volume for my weight, our shitty waves and bump. So if I can't find a cute sup surf girl to give it to....any takers? Free, except for shipping. Can try and destroy a cheap epoxy board, and then add comment to this thread...
Course you gotta wait till Spring
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I hear ya, Pono. I'm now so used to using the stuff I use that it may take some adjustment if I use something different. I really like the RR and would love to use it if I were somewhere where it's easily obtained. When I was first trying to learn to build boards was when I bought RR. My absolute ignorant inexperience combined with the cost of the stuff shipped to me made (unrealistically, I'm sure) agonize over every single ounce of the stuff. Kind of crippling, in its way. With some experience, I doubt that would be the case now. And I'll admit it's nice not to obsess over ounces with the cheap stuff. For your purposes, I suspect that if you warm your resin first, then mix, you'll get better results all around.
Cowboy. I got ya, buddy. If I don't fall in love with this board you'll get one of two things. This board, or the pic of a cute girl with her new board! And thanks my friend for the nice compliments.