Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: supthecreek on September 26, 2016, 05:07:14 AM
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Linter suggested I start this thread, since many of us are conversing about the Art of Noseriding.... or lack of, and our quest to master it!
Linter and I are like many SUPsters around the world..... old surfers, who made the conversion to StandUp late in life, as the ravages of life have started making fun of our skills. Many of us came into surfing in the 60's, when becoming a proficient Noserider, was the goal of every surfer.
In my case, I just started getting it wired when the "Shortboard Revolution" made ALL longboards irrelevant and noseriding was thrown into the dustbin. Damn...... :(
2 years later, I saved a black Mickey Dora "Da Cat" from being cut down into a shortboard.... and I have kept a "longboard" in my quiver ever since.
I was alway a solid "noserider", but never a "Tip" rider.
The art of "hanging 5" or "hanging 10" in any meaningful way was still the holy grail..... mainly because it was so hard to accomplish with the style of the masters.
One huge aspect of Noseriding is a serious challenge to SUPsters:
The Hands..... what to do with the Hands?????
We have a paddle in it, which really takes a huge "Style point" off the table.....
A new "SUPstyle" will have to evolve.... hopefully it doesn't include spinning the paddle like a baton.
Let's start at the beginning: Noseriding in History of Surfing
From Wikipedia:
"One of the first commercial surfboard manufacturers Dale Velzy, is credited as being the first to get to the nose to hang five and hang ten in the early 50s. Noseriding is widely considered the origin of "Extreme" surfing and had become such a popular trick by the late 50s that Surfer Magazine publisher John Severson devoted a regular feature, called "Toes on the Nose", starting with his debut issue of Surfer in 1960
Mastering the noseride takes years to accomplish. Once achieved, the thrill of the moment gives the surfer the sensation that their feet are simply gliding on water and that they are defying gravity. "
There is simply no other feeling in surfing quite like a true "Noseride"
For basically 52 years I have chased that "Grail"
The difference between "On the Nose" vs "Hanging 5" or "Hanging 10" is vast.
I have always been comfy on the Nose.... but NEVER much at getting "Toes Over" in any meaningful way.
Some boards were better than others, but all were difficult at best. Until now!
I really have never stood on the nose so easily, and for so long..... the 10' Sunova Style is going to finally get me to the the Grail.
I will "Hang 10" on this board.... the ONLY thing in my way is, my 50 year habit of stopping a "half step away"
This is a HUGE deal to me and my surfing life!
I want to document my last mile.
For me it's the 10' Style.... for Linter, it's the JL Black & Blue Machine.....
One thing is for sure..... the tools are finally in the shed..... now we just have to hone them :)
The "Grail" in pictures, is below the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmo--BQDOu4
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Great stuff, Creek!
I've been able to get to the front 1/3 to 1/4 of my BnB for a good while now but in my book that doesn't count for much. As everyone here must be sick unto death of hearing from me now, only toes over is the real deal. And I've been after that for as long as I've been on a SUP ... with no success until two weeks ago. Since then, I've experienced pretty steady improvement. Yesterday, I got 5 over three times, much to my amazement.
One *huge* factor has been my ability to surf alone, with no eyes on me and thus no fear of not making the wave. It's not just fear of being seen as more of a kook than i am; it's also just not wanting to ruin waves that others might have ridden for much longer. I feel bad about that. But not when it's just me. When it's just me, I feel freer to keep on walking after that first step, and adjusting from there, and if I blow the wave, I blow the wave.
I still suck. I've got less than no style. But for someone who has about zippo proprioception and can build muscle memory to only 1/20 of other people, I'm freaking psyched.
another thing that's helped a bunch is taking a video of Bear, from the Gong site, noseriding on small waves and slowing it down by 90%. man, it's ***amazing*** how many subtleties you can see. they may be obvious to you guys but i'm blind in so many ways that they came as shocking revelations to me. oh, so that's how he did that! wow! gotta try that next time i'm out!
more later.
thanks for starting things off, STC!
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Nice job guys!
Jimmy Lewis told me it's not really noseriding unless you are at the front 1/4 of the board. As he explained, that rule of thumb came from early contests when riders actually made lines on their boards so the judges would be able to see that they were on the nose. Hence the contrast band on the B&B. Joel Tudor though, would have you believe that it's not nose riding unless you are hanging toes over. I prefer JL's benchmark at least for the time being. ;D
Rick, I like the way your paddle ends up in one hand once you get on the nose, I do the same thing. This is one area of SUP surfing where the paddle should sometimes take a back seat for the main act.
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I never have been that fascinated with nose riding for whatever reason, maybe because I haven't been raised with the sport. I did get up to the front 20 percent a couple of times on my big inflatable when it got totally locked up on the rail going down the line. However, that was more me trying to figure out how to turn it back into the wave and not knowing how to turn then. I can turn now, and walk toward the front mainly for trimming.
I have gotten off the pad once on the 8.10 Speed, but i think that I am too big to actually go to the nose on it, even in optimal conditions.
I also thought nose riding was the province of the "skinnies" with ballet artist bodies. It is very impressive that you get out that far on that Sunova, Rick.
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Fragging cool and motivating.
Quite the salesmen for those Sunovas I might add :)
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I love trying to nose ride . Having a sweet board like yours must make it easier! My Joe Blair 8.5 isnt really a noserider but i can still get up on the front. One thing I have found is that you can use your paddle to keep weight back by pressuring the paddle face while walking up to the front for a hang five ! I am not sure if this is cheating in the "classical sense" but its pretty fun when you get locked in on a wave .
Jim in pdx
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This is probably my favorite video of yours Creek. It tells a story and puts the viewer in the mindset of the main character. It's kind of hard to believe that someone with your years and skills isn't always on the nose when they want to be, but it makes me feel better about all the reasons that skill is so hard for me to do.
Linter, you're pretty hard on yourself as usual, but from your recent vids, there is clear and consistent improvement, and it's not like you look any kookier doing it than the rest of us. To me it just looks like you're having fun on every attempt.
I can count the times I've had 5 over on my fingers and 10...only once. Yet almost every session has at least one attempt. It's a fun thing to try, so why not.
Keep those vids coming. I can only watch Kassia, Joel, Alex and Wingnut so many times without feeling completely out of my element. ;)
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BRAVO Creek for starting this thread/documentary! Couldn't have agreed more with Linter on this one! THANK YOU for this and what will follow!
I fully intend to capture my "quest to the nose" via video for my own learning/documentary purposes...and will provide updates here along the way. Both you and Linter are WAY ahead of me on numerous skill counts, but I will persevere! And I know this thread will help me get there!
Now time for me to study the film and make mental notes....I'm pm ya on trying to hool up later this week!
Todd, 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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What a great tune to accompany this tasty vid! That Style really seems to have the front end for this chase. Like you said about the Surf, it's ok, but not a nose rider really.
With a bigger budget I'd like a true nose rider, maybe some day.
Somewhere back in NY is a board from my youth, a 10' specialty nose rider by The Greek complete with cutaway nose covered in black tar finish.
When you've set the rail, through whatever means, don't be shy on the walk forward. Take up a complete facing forward stance, shoulders squared front facing. Just like
when we're paddling.
Toes hanging over is cool, but for the enjoyment of the nose ride feel, just get to the last bit of nose terrain. Standing there, gliding over the water with no board to be seen.
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here's a couple of vids from last year and the year before mostly of me riding the front of the board. i do not call any of it noseriding, and i do think it's an important distinction. i mean, when you say to someone, anyone, that, yeah, i can noseride -- what do yAou imagine they're thinking? i can tell you -- their thinking five over or ten over. 100% of the time or at least 90% of the time.
As Jimmy once told me: Do you know how many guys CLAIM to get "killer nose rides" and they're no where NEAR the nose? You've got both feet past the white line on ALL of those waves. And your front foot is right up there!!! But, as you said, when you FEEL and SEE your toes OVER, it's all the difference in the world. I've been surfing since about '62 and up 'til last summer, I don't think I EVER got a real hang ten. Yes, I've had both feet UP there but never had the feeling of all of my toes crooked over the tip."
i do think i take is a wee smidge too seriously, however, ha ha, as if i'm some appointed keeper of the flame, which obviousy i'm not. it's just something i keep in mind, so i don't let myself off the hook early on my path to continuous holy-grail tip time, to mix as many metaphors as i can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIgQ5QGPED8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ETt_Fk_kII
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anyway, i'll let colas, who was sadly banned from this site, as many of the good ones have been, define what it means to set the rail. please excuse his english. he's french, ha ha.
Nose riding by colas Thurs, January 28, 2010 - 9:37 p.m. For me, longboard, the declic was when instead of trying to "get high" on the nose, I started to do "bite" the nose into the wave by pressing firmly on the side, and have a feeling " piloting aircraft wing "as if the nose of your board was your hand that you go through the car door of your car and" made the plane. " Technically this means that it is necessary that the nose is good in the steep part of the wave, so quite high, so you have to force the edge to keep it there,
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Please don't sew my mouth shut. I've surfed almost as long as you, my Eliminateor model from the Greek taught me how to get up there. And I still do it when the steep section in front of me asks for it, now holding a paddle.
You're a purist. Toes over will win you a contest. Get those toes within inches of the nose and you'll get the same thrill. Believe me.
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After starting this thread, I have read, and re-read, then pondered....
I was clouded in my initial declaration on the video, with regards to "Noseriding" when I said: "I was never very good at it"
Hold that thought for a moment....
I was letting Linters definition: "It's not really noseriding unless you "Hang 5" or "Hang 10" influence me.
While I totally understand where he is going with that..... it leaves too much out, IMO
To me, noseriding has two parts:
1st - riding "in front of the line", as designated in the 1965 Morey Pope Noseriding Contest --- hence the "Line" being drawn in some fashion, on every noserider built, through graphics. My favorite was the Hobie Gary Proper Model (Pic 1)
2nd - "Tip" riding.... which is "Toes Over" or "Heels over" or "Hang Body".... whatever..... as long as you have moved your body physically PAST the end of the nose. Very cool stuff. A "Soul Arch" with the body curved gracefully out in front of the board, with your feet perched on the edge, dragging the board confidently behind your body. See David Nuuhiwa.
Back to my thought:
While "Toes Over" is a great and wonderfull achievement, there is MUCH to be enjoyed by simply "Crossing the line"... the "Noseriding Line"
It's true that I have never been very good at "Toes Over".... but I have spent a vast amount of time "Over the line"..... I pretty much run up front every chance I get.... on everything.... including pointy little boards like my Acid (pics 2 & 3)
There is a HUGE amount of wonder and joy from simply being up front.
The board acts totally differently when you cross the line.... the tail loosens and tends to float around on you, the nose wants to dive under.
When over the line, you have to "Surf" the board very differently.... and THAT is where I get my Ya Ya's!
So much can be done with the ankles and the knees.... subtle moves that tweak the board this way and that.... keeping the tail under control, and holding your ground "over the line". Hugely satisfying and technically difficult.
It turns a lackluster part of a wave into a wonderland.... and I was always pretty good at that!
It ain't toes over, but it's a very cool feeling to climb, drop and turn a board... without ever moving off the nose!
That's the main reason, I haven't ventured toward the "tip" on my Style.... I have been transfixed how well this board is controlled from the nose. I know that it will be controllable with Toes Over as well. The flat nose beckons two feet to plant themselves there and drive the ship. Soon.
My take?
Enjoy everything "Over the line"
"Toes Over" is just the icing on a very tasty cake :)
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ha ha J..... I just saw your reply, which posted as I was writing.... yes.... too much joy, riding the nose in any fashion to be left out!
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i'm with ya, it's all good!
but let me point out that if you search under the term noseriding on youtube, you'll be rewarded with 100s of vids of guys with toes on the nose and approximately zero of guys riding just the front quadrant.
there ought to be a separate term for riding the front 1/3 to 1/4 of the board because, as creek and i both know, getting even five over is wwwway more difficult than front 1/4 riding, so there out to be some distinction drawn. both are fun. both are great. but one is fairly easy to accomplish, while the other ain't. and to think it's often just a matter of 4" or 6". how weird is that? but the diff is huge.
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meanwhile, all semantics and hairsplitting on my part aside, here's a video of Bear/Gong demonstrating what I'd call noseriding. it's been hugely helpful to me, looking at it, because he gets up front in a bunch of different ways. the one step hop. the clean two step. the last-second shuffle. the single step from the second step position on take off. plus, you can see him knife the rail into the wave before he walks time after time. lots of great stuff going on. if only it were easier to take what you see and put it into practice. man, that's hard!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uui1WTzXp4s
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Great noseriding vid Linter.
He really gets the board covered with water -
also gets one or sometimes almost both feet On the inside rail -
he stalls the board a bit sometimes but he seems to be riding fairly fast.
Got to watch that many many more times.
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As with others I agree it is the feeling of "noseriding" that
is so cool. I like parallel stance to get the coolest feeling
- like floating on a magic carpet - I don't get that as much
if I have one foot in front of the other, unless they are still
close togther. Hanging five is pretty cool to but hanging ten
is also in parallel stance - maybe someday.
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This guy does old school with a paddle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ID4ud0Rc2v4#!
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Yes he does!
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Three (3) weeks ago I was swapping emails with Marlon Lewis about the availability of a 10'1" flat nose Jimmy Lewis model B&B. He thought he had one located - in of all places the mid-west. So I pulled the trigger working with JimK only to find out the board he (Marlon) thought was a flat nose was actually a concave nose. And that I would now have to wait until Feb 2017 before Marlon and Dad Jimmy would have anyone....BUMMER!
Well, over the weekend Marlon emailed me indicating he had located a yellow B&B flat nose there in Maui and it was mine if I wanted it. I quickly engaged JimK for the Zoner discount and bam - tracking number and enroute with delivery tomorrow. SWEET NIBLETS!
Thanks to Linter for allowing me to try his B&B and Creek for sharing his Sunova Style - both there knowledge, insight, and willingness to share have allowed me to make an informed decision on what (I think) will work best for me.
And so my nose riding adventure begins.
More to follow......
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Subscribed!
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Sweet! Am sure I'll see you on it somewhere in Newport. Hehe.
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Whew!!! Rome wasn't built in a day.....
I've been out for a couple of sessions over the last several days on my new B&B. At 10'1" and 31" wide I've quickly adapted to its stability, or my lack thereof. Paddling about and getting out thru the slop is pretty easy (when I time things nicely). As for catching rides.....I ain't gonna lie....its been challenging, but I'm definitely up for it and super stoked! I've pearled it as many times as I've had waves pass underneath - (still looking for that magic foot placement for padding into waves). By my second session I started to cross step several steps forward to get my lead (right) foot forward (I'm a goofy) of the line on several rides which was still a foot plus shy of being able to get 5 over. Really liked that feeling as there was at least 6 plus feet of board behind my rear (left) foot. Trying to capture some vid with a Gopro Hero attached to my paddle for learning purposes....been hit or miss thus far.
Loving it....boy am I hooked!
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Nice Whatz^!
Keep at it.... it's totally different to control a board from the nose.
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I was thinking about this thread on Monday. Had a nice long trip with both feet on the Foote logo...no toes over but it was definitely over the line.
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The Foote 10'4" is a pretty good noserider. I can get 5 over sometimes if I stall the board aggressively and cross-step smoothly. I can almost always get comfortable with my feet on the logo. For me, the stall is everything in getting to the front. No stall, no ride. The nose just buries. I also need to cross-step very smoothly. If I don't, I tip the rail out of the wave face and it's over. I brace the paddle into the wave face, but only lightly. Push too hard and the rail lifts. Gots to keep that rail buried and the tail well covered.
I watched a very cool surfer girl at Cardiff styling on her longboard. she didn't cross-step--she took tiny, very fast shuffles. I mean SUPER fast. She had a whole bandolier of super-cool moves, including catching a big breaking wave in the whitewater by ducking down and grabbing the rail. Made it look like part of the big plan. She didn't stall her board to noseride, just stuffed the rail, but she probably weighed as much as my leg. I talked to her a while on the beach. I was mesmerized by her eyes--beautiful. Hmmm, where was I... ...Oh, yeah, so I think if you're light enough you can get away with not stalling, but for a chunkster like me, I think it's everything.
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Yup......it's funny though. I don't even think about cross stepping. I think what I do is a combination of a shuffle and a long cross step...nothing elegant about it...at least I don't think so..I kind of just find myself there all of a sudden. I do cross step back but it's not the smooth transition...usually a few quick steps to the tail. Feels good though.
I always get lost in the eyes too....must be genetic.
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Cross step? I don't do no stinkin' cross step!
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I had a couple sessions last spring on my buddy's 9'2 Sunova Speeed and was playing around with trying to cross step--didn't have much success, but it was fun tryin'!
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https://vimeo.com/110383320
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I have a 10'6" Red Paddle Co and was wondering if this board would be suitable to get starting with nose riding? I'm obviously not going to be able to get toes over but would it be possible to get up towards the nose?
I have other boards too but have seen a brand new hardboard nose rider style for sale that's 10 X 29 (145l) at £500 but is a 2015 model with an older style handle and glass construction but could be an interesting?
Any things to consider would be useful!
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Or you can take an off the shelf, $950 pop-out, and noseride it like this.....
https://youtu.be/KYetbtmRtm0
Which makes me believe, "It's the indian, not the arrow". ;D
Joe is pretty impressive no matter what he's riding, or which end of the board he has going forward....
https://youtu.be/DCEhkQOXcVo?t=1m26s
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Noseriding rules! Not sup, but I shot this two weeks ago. I have fun with it even though I'm a foot and a 1/2 back from the nose.
JP
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Great shot J!
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I learned a great trick to help smooth out my cross step--it's worth practicing. If you start out with your feet in a normal surf stance and step your back foot across forward, you'll almost always tip towards your toes. The step is too long to maintain balance and your back foot winds up in a position where you can't keep your weight even--you automatically go to the edge of your foot and you can't control heel or toe pressure. Instead, I put my weight on the back foot to stall and get my weight even heel to toe, then bring my front foot back close to the back foot, setting it down on the spine of the board. Weight the heel of my front foot that I just pulled back, and step across with a short step. Even your weight out and step across with a long step that gets you as least to the logo. the nose is a short step away.
I walk around the house this way until Diane starts throwing stuff at me. Once you have it down, it's much easier than a shuffle. And it's kind of autopilot for noseriding--stall, stabilize, move forward, keep the rail buried. Presto. Pop the rail and you're done. Look at those Joe pics. His waveside rail is totally buried.
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I walk around the house this way until Diane starts throwing stuff at me.
Video please.