Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: lopezwill on May 01, 2013, 04:50:02 PM
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I'm 57, 6'4" 225 lbs, 4 years experience with sup surfing, plenty years of lay down surfing. This is a review of the L41, S4, simsup. The reason I'm starting this new thread is believe heavyweights (210 and up) really need different measurements on these simsups to feel comfortable and have a good time surfing these new shapes. I'm an average, maybe above average middle aged sup surfer that has spent a lot of money on sup boards in the last four years.
I first had the 8'5" simsup at 31.5 across, 140 volume. This board surfed great but was too small and tippie for me making it more frustrating than fun in the light and moderate chop I surf in the most. My new L41 is 8'10" 33 across, 159 volume. I'm WAY more comfortable on this board and can just stand in the lineup with very little balance problems. Even at 33 across this board has its challenges in heavy chop and cross chop seas...but is totally doable! I wouldn't want the board any shorter, longer or narrower. This shape seems to be a good fit for my weight and height. You wont find these dimensions on a "Pop out"...yet. I believe these designs will become the norm for small to medium surf around the world for heavier riders. Just my opinion though.
Not everybody is going to like the way these simsups ride. Yes, I said it. These boards have a "Skatie" feel to them. Much different surfing than the norm of riding sup's like a high performance longboard. Cross stepping, tail slides, nose riding etc. The more typical (think of Laird Hamilton ripping longboard) maneuvers. These simsups like to be ridden over the tail while turning, doing cut backs and floaters.
I don't like these simsups in large, hollow ropey waves. I much prefer a narrower ten footer for thumpie sup surfing. These boards are fin sensitive! If you don't have the correct fin set up you may hate the board. Change the fin set up and you will be in love with the same board. I finally have the fins set where I like them and can really milk the performance out of this board. I'm still experimenting on fins to be honest.
The L41, S4 has pinched shortboard surfboard rails. the "Standard" simsups have a fuller, more boxed rail and I think a heavyweight can go shorter and narrower on that design.
Finally the review:
This L41 simsup is super fast! It has skatie, fast feel to it right out of the gate. You can make lots of directional changes on the wave without loosing speed. The board can perform full round house cut backs without loosing speed and you better get ready cause your banking off the soup and bottom turning for round two. These boards work great in smaller, mushie surf for us heavyweights. We finally have a board that surfs like a "High performance shortboard" in small surf...If the dimensions and fin set ups are correct for your weight. My 9'6" high performance sup is collecting a lot of dust. These simsups are just plain fun to surf!
I'll end with saying I like all types of sup surfing. I enjoy longboard type sup surfing too. I have an 11 footer that I still use because I like the glide. I'm really enjoying this simsup! These simsups seem to get the most out of the smaller surf. As a heavyweight I can get more turns and maneuvers in the smaller surf. I'm curious how Stoneaxe - Supthecreek - Ponobill simsups ride?
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LW,
That was a nice review! How does the fins you have used effect the performance? Have u used different Quads than the standard stock fins Kirk sends out?
I have a 5'9" custom S4 coming soon, moving down a little from my 8'0" Vibe also very stable for my currant weight of 165 lbs. and it ripped! Unfortunately I sold it to help fund my new board. I went back and rode my old 9'2" Allwave that now feels like a barge! Hopefully I won't have to re-order a new larger version SS like you did?
With your experience, what fin set up would u recommend?
Thx,
FM
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Thank You. I was trying to figure who the big guys where goin' through the Simmons threads. I should copy and paste my post yesterday in this thread.
So Lopez, 5" made a huge difference?
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Nice review...and good to hear. I have an 8-6 x 33 (approx 160 L) SIM inspired Vec on the way (maybe this weekend) and our specs are almost identical except that I have a few lbs on you. I wanted to get somewhere in between the S1 and the Infinity Phoenix. Wanted to make sure there was enough volume in the rails for me to be comfortable while waiting but I had most of it up front with the tail thinned out. I have Larry's twins going in for fins but it's a 5 fin and I'm sure I'll be playing. Makes sense that these are so fin sensitive. Going to be fun figuring it out.
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fanman
At your weight of 165 lbs the standard fins are fine but don't be afraid to experiment with other quad sets. Right now I'm using all fiberglass quads. Why fiberglass? Because they are stiffer and for heavyweights you get more drive and a more positive turning feel. I don't like those honeycomb or carbon light fins. Good old fashion fiberglass fins for us heavyweights. The fronts are 5" high the backs are 4 1/2". They look like your typical shortboard quad set just blown up a little. I got the backs from Rainbow fin company in Santa Cruz and the people there were really nice to work with. The fronts I took off an old "Twinzer " fin set up I've been keeping in my fin bag for several years.
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Stonaxe -
That board sounds PERFECT! Can't wait for board review. I'm working a completely different quad fin set up. I just don't have it dialed in yet so I'm not posting about it.
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Great review! Thanks for sharing all that info. I was considering to order one of these SIMSUPs and you just gave me the right direction. Yes, I also belong to the Heavies Club (5-11, 230lbs, 49). Two weeks ago I found my nirvana at 32" wide. I come from C4 11-6 x 28, PSH wide ripper 9-6 x 29.50 (too tippy, hated it, sold it in 1 week), C-4 10-6 x 28.50, PSH all around 9-6 x 29.50 (nice in glass conditions, too tippy in chop, sold it in 2 weeks), now...Starboard Wide Point 9-5 x 32. Love it!!!! Ripping every single day (chop or glassy). Happy!!!!
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I recommend Future Controllers that is what Kirk provides now. I love my board S4 8'4" x 31 x 4 5/8 for 135 and I'm 6'3" 240 45. It's taken time for me to get stronger and channel my inner 70's surfing style. The board is fast, stable, strong and nice to look at.
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Good review. Very insightful.
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I should have a 8'8" X 33" waiting for me, though I realized I didn't have Diane mail the check yet, so YIKES. But it will probably be a while before I get it in surf, other than perhaps playing at the Hatchery in the Columbia. Be fun to see if it works there. I'll let you know though. My current weight is 235. I'm aiming to be 220 sometime soon, but we'll see if I can get there without amputation.
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Lopez
insightful and informative review.
I think that an accurate background of the reviewer in key to it's usefulness.
Age, weight, height - surf & SUS experience - accurate appraisal of one's own abilities
and... the fact that you have laid out $$$ on many boards - you have valid comps.
Then a thorough Pros & Cons of board performance
This is a format the makes board reviews most helpful.
As to your query about my experience with Sims.... I've never even seen one :-\
My weight reduction has me jonesin' for a smaller board.
I felt that a Sims would be a good match for some of the waves I ride, but possibly not all...
I have an 8'8 x 32 JP Australia Wide Body coming into JimK's any day now.
It is a carbon (Composite?) construction - VERY light... and quad only... no center fin box
It seems like a good match for all the conditions I surf... so That's my go for now.
When Stoney and Linter get their Sims... I will get to see where they fit in
One, I will get to try on Cape Cod... the other in Rhode Island point breaks... so I'll have good trials.
My next board may well be a Sims... if the JP allows me to retire the 9'6 x 32 Allwave
The Allwave surfs very well in all my conditions... but starting to feel too big at 215 lbs.
Your review seems to support my decision... Thanks for the thread.... great stuff!
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I think that was what made the board and paddle showcase so valuable. Having a good number of subjective reviews from a wide variety of riders from rank beginners to some of the best in the world today made it pretty interesting and informative. It gave people a direction to head in when starting out the search for a new board. I haven't seen anything else come close to being as useful except what we get here on the zone. You just have to dig a little more for it here.
Maybe we could create a more useful review system here. A standard format for subject headers that would make them more easily searchable and a standard format for reviews that would include the specs and experience of the rider as well as the specs of the board and the subjective opinion on its performance in the conditions it was used. Maybe even a standard format for photos to show shape and rocker. The board graphics we did for the showcase made it easy to see what a given board looked like and to relate the reviews to a style of board. We're not going to place scales over them but a couple of quick pics for each would be easy. Maybe a sticky post at the top of Gear Talk that gives the format would be enough.
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I'm in the club - SUP'n 5 years now and I'm 40 yrs old and 6'1" 217 lbs (210-215 ultimately what with my primal lifestyle). Currently ride an 8'10"x29.5" Dave Craig and have a 7'10"x31" 127L SIMSUP S4 on the way any day now I hope. I don't mind the challenge and think it'll be ok with the extra width and fuller nose/tail vs. my Craig. I do expect there too be a learning curve in finding the fore/aft balance point. I'll post a review when I've had some time on it...
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I'm in the club - SUP'n 5 years now and I'm 40 yrs old and 6'1" 217 lbs (210-215 ultimately what with my primal lifestyle). Currently ride an 8'10"x29.5" Dave Craig and have a 7'10"x31" 127L SIMSUP S4 on the way any day now I hope. I don't mind the challenge and think it'll be ok with the extra width and fuller nose/tail vs. my Craig. I do expect there too be a learning curve in finding the fore/aft balance point. I'll post a review when I've had some time on it...
very nice i have a 7'10 x 29.5" S4 coming soon as well! mine will be around 115L. I wish you lived close so i could see what kinda difference an inch and a half of width can make (could be both posi/negs)
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At my current weight of 212, I'm having some concerns about my ability to ride my, very soon to arrive, 7'10" x 30.5", Phoenix V2. What a great reason to shed 10lbs or so. I can't wait!
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lopezwill, i wonder if you've tried any other smaller wide boards, like the Starboard Hero for instance. that board is 9'*33" and 150L, and for me, those are the perfect dimensions. curious as to whether you think the overall SIMSUP shape is what matters, or just having that much width for larger guys is more important.
in general, i wonder if guys over 6 feet tall and over 200 lbs have a sweet spot for width (i.e., 33") when using shorter boards (9' and under). i've tried 8'10" and 31" width, but though it surfs well, it's just too much work in our standard east coast chop. even at 32" i haven't been comfortable, but once i get on a 33" board, all is well.
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At my current weight of 212, I'm having some concerns about my ability to ride my, very soon to arrive, 7'10" x 30.5", Phoenix V2. What a great reason to shed 10lbs or so. I can't wait!
Surf naked at worst case - the wetsuit is good for a few pounds...
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lopezwill, i wonder if you've tried any other smaller wide boards, like the Starboard Hero for instance. that board is 9'*33" and 150L, and for me, those are the perfect dimensions. curious as to whether you think the overall SIMSUP shape is what matters, or just having that much width for larger guys is more important.
in general, i wonder if guys over 6 feet tall and over 200 lbs have a sweet spot for width (i.e., 33") when using shorter boards (9' and under). i've tried 8'10" and 31" width, but though it surfs well, it's just too much work in our standard east coast chop. even at 32" i haven't been comfortable, but once i get on a 33" board, all is well.
In my experience it's heavily dependent on shape and not just width. I'm comfortable on my Craig at 8'10"x29.5; more so than the Coreban Fusion I had in the past because the domed deck on the Coreban was tippier to me. My friend has two 8'6"x30" boards - a Stamps Grim Ripper & a Craig like mine. Both have more of a pulled in nose and the Craig has a narrow pin tail whereas the Stamps is a wider fish tail. I can stand all day on his Craig with no issues but have a heck of time finding the fore/aft balance point on his Stamps. I think it's the foam displacement?
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beached
There are so many variables to shaping a staple high performance sup for heavyweights. Remember the Hobie Sumo? Sort of a disk you stand on that is thicker for more stability. I have never tried one so I won't comment. I did have the 9'3" C4 Subvector with the the recessed deck for stability. I don't hear much about "Recessed decks" lately?
DW once said, (and I've found this to be true for me) "The fuller rails and flat decks are more stable." The pinched lower volume (surfboard type) rails with the domed decks are more unstable and I've found this to be true also.
Maybe this is information most of you already know but as a heavyweight wanting "Stability and PERFORMANCE" these are just some things I've discovered from trial and error.
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I'm 57, 6'4" 225 lbs, 4 years experience with sup surfing, plenty years of lay down surfing. This is a review of the L41, S4, simsup. The reason I'm starting this new thread is believe heavyweights (210 and up) really need different measurements on these simsups to feel comfortable and have a good time surfing these new shapes. I'm an average, maybe above average middle aged sup surfer that has spent a lot of money on sup boards in the last four years.
I first had the 8'5" simsup at 31.5 across, 140 volume. This board surfed great but was too small and tippie for me making it more frustrating than fun in the light and moderate chop I surf in the most. My new L41 is 8'10" 33 across, 159 volume. I'm WAY more comfortable on this board and can just stand in the lineup with very little balance problems. Even at 33 across this board has its challenges in heavy chop and cross chop seas...but is totally doable! I wouldn't want the board any shorter, longer or narrower. This shape seems to be a good fit for my weight and height. You wont find these dimensions on a "Pop out"...yet. I believe these designs will become the norm for small to medium surf around the world for heavier riders. Just my opinion though.
Not everybody is going to like the way these simsups ride. Yes, I said it. These boards have a "Skatie" feel to them. Much different surfing than the norm of riding sup's like a high performance longboard. Cross stepping, tail slides, nose riding etc. The more typical (think of Laird Hamilton ripping longboard) maneuvers. These simsups like to be ridden over the tail while turning, doing cut backs and floaters.
I don't like these simsups in large, hollow ropey waves. I much prefer a narrower ten footer for thumpie sup surfing. These boards are fin sensitive! If you don't have the correct fin set up you may hate the board. Change the fin set up and you will be in love with the same board. I finally have the fins set where I like them and can really milk the performance out of this board. I'm still experimenting on fins to be honest.
The L41, S4 has pinched shortboard surfboard rails. the "Standard" simsups have a fuller, more boxed rail and I think a heavyweight can go shorter and narrower on that design.
Finally the review:
This L41 simsup is super fast! It has skatie, fast feel to it right out of the gate. You can make lots of directional changes on the wave without loosing speed. The board can perform full round house cut backs without loosing speed and you better get ready cause your banking off the soup and bottom turning for round two. These boards work great in smaller, mushie surf for us heavyweights. We finally have a board that surfs like a "High performance shortboard" in small surf...If the dimensions and fin set ups are correct for your weight. My 9'6" high performance sup is collecting a lot of dust. These simsups are just plain fun to surf!
I'll end with saying I like all types of sup surfing. I enjoy longboard type sup surfing too. I have an 11 footer that I still use because I like the glide. I'm really enjoying this simsup! These simsups seem to get the most out of the smaller surf. As a heavyweight I can get more turns and maneuvers in the smaller surf. I'm curious how Stoneaxe - Supthecreek - Ponobill simsups ride?
Hi Mr Lopez.
Excellent review and it sounds like a board that I would be really interested in purchasing. Is yours a total custom or a custom that still maintains the basic correlation of dimensions? :) How much difference in pricing between a standard and custom if its not rude to ask? ;D I'm trying to work out if I'll have to sell one of my children to afford it!! :o That is a joke by the way ;)!
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Here's a sneak peek at what I'll be getting once it's done. It's 9-5 x 32.5, vol 160L, an L41. I only weigh 170 but due to various and sundry I need the stability of someone who weighs, oh, I dunno, 250 or thereabout (ie, SupTheCreek's old weight :D). Also, I have no interest in short-board-style riding, so what Kirk has come up with for me is a longboard simsup, for longboard-type moves (ie, just standin' there in trim, speeding along, hopefully :)). The nose of the board in this pic looks bulbous; I think that's due to the wide-angle lens and that in reality, the widest part is back in the hips. In any event, I won't be doing no round-house cutbacks on this baby; with that tail and the great-big-honking fin that probably comes with it, it'll be hard enough just swinging it around after the take off. Whatever. Seems like it ought to be a great small-wave summertime SUP. Can't wait for it to get here!
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Leroy 13
The board is a custom L41 surfboards out of Santa Cruz Calif. No price difference for the larger simsup. No need to sell one of your kids...maybe your pet dog or something. That is a bad joke of mine by the way.
Linter
Please do a review on that board after you've ridden it awhile. I've been wondering how a longer board with those rails would work? I'm really not concerned about going shorter and shorter in sup designs. I think at the end of the day sup surfers want performance and stability.
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I'm 57, 6'4" 225 lbs, 4 years experience with sup surfing, plenty years of lay down surfing. This is a review of the L41, S4, simsup. The reason I'm starting this new thread is believe heavyweights (210 and up) really need different measurements on these simsups to feel comfortable and have a good time surfing these new shapes. I'm an average, maybe above average middle aged sup surfer that has spent a lot of money on sup boards in the last four years.
I first had the 8'5" simsup at 31.5 across, 140 volume. This board surfed great but was too small and tippie for me making it more frustrating than fun in the light and moderate chop I surf in the most. My new L41 is 8'10" 33 across, 159 volume. I'm WAY more comfortable on this board and can just stand in the lineup with very little balance problems. Even at 33 across this board has its challenges in heavy chop and cross chop seas...but is totally doable! I wouldn't want the board any shorter, longer or narrower. This shape seems to be a good fit for my weight and height. You wont find these dimensions on a "Pop out"...yet. I believe these designs will become the norm for small to medium surf around the world for heavier riders. Just my opinion though.
Not everybody is going to like the way these simsups ride. Yes, I said it. These boards have a "Skatie" feel to them. Much different surfing than the norm of riding sup's like a high performance longboard. Cross stepping, tail slides, nose riding etc. The more typical (think of Laird Hamilton ripping longboard) maneuvers. These simsups like to be ridden over the tail while turning, doing cut backs and floaters.
I don't like these simsups in large, hollow ropey waves. I much prefer a narrower ten footer for thumpie sup surfing. These boards are fin sensitive! If you don't have the correct fin set up you may hate the board. Change the fin set up and you will be in love with the same board. I finally have the fins set where I like them and can really milk the performance out of this board. I'm still experimenting on fins to be honest.
The L41, S4 has pinched shortboard surfboard rails. the "Standard" simsups have a fuller, more boxed rail and I think a heavyweight can go shorter and narrower on that design.
Finally the review:
This L41 simsup is super fast! It has skatie, fast feel to it right out of the gate. You can make lots of directional changes on the wave without loosing speed. The board can perform full round house cut backs without loosing speed and you better get ready cause your banking off the soup and bottom turning for round two. These boards work great in smaller, mushie surf for us heavyweights. We finally have a board that surfs like a "High performance shortboard" in small surf...If the dimensions and fin set ups are correct for your weight. My 9'6" high performance sup is collecting a lot of dust. These simsups are just plain fun to surf!
I'll end with saying I like all types of sup surfing. I enjoy longboard type sup surfing too. I have an 11 footer that I still use because I like the glide. I'm really enjoying this simsup! These simsups seem to get the most out of the smaller surf. As a heavyweight I can get more turns and maneuvers in the smaller surf. I'm curious how Stoneaxe - Supthecreek - Ponobill simsups ride?
Finally someone states the facts, good review lopez! Airplane Flooring (Coremat material) should stay in the plane not under a Sup Surf Board. Not to forget fins being over toed along with inverted flanged boxes in concave bottom boards which causes you to loose 3 to 4 degree cant and your fins become more vertical which will cause your board to be trackey. 99 percent of existing surfboard fins are to small or wrong angled plan shape for Sup Surfing so be careful when spending your money my friends. Mahalo, Larry
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lopezwill, i wonder if you've tried any other smaller wide boards, like the Starboard Hero for instance. that board is 9'*33" and 150L, and for me, those are the perfect dimensions. curious as to whether you think the overall SIMSUP shape is what matters, or just having that much width for larger guys is more important.
Yes, just the other day, swapped boards with a guy so he could try my 7'8"x30" Retro/Timsup, while I just on his 9'0" Hero....he had fun, I didn't.
After being on the Retro that floats my 6' and 205lbs (lost five recently, yeehaw!) just fine, and is as stable as any of the larger boards I've owned.....paddling around, and surfing the Hero in waist to chest high stuff, felt like I was on an aircraft carrier, and trying to get it to speed and turn reasonably was just not going to happen.
My buddy (210 lbs.) in return, while having a slight bit of problem balancing at first (he got better as time went on), loved the Retro once he got is in some waves, and his exact words were, "Damn this thing is fun, I even think it makes me surf better".....which was hard for me to argue, because that was exactly the same way I felt the first demo ride I had out on it.
After his 45 minutes on it or so (and me having to go get it back from him ;D), the rest of the session he talked about ordering one, as has everyone else that I've let try it.
Not saying it's the perfect board for all conditions, and why I have an 8'5" on order from another shaper, but in our average, below head-high (more like below chest high), mushy stuff that we get at SanO were I find myself most of the time, I can see this board as being my "go to", and wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch more guys out on something similar in the not too distant future.
BTW, just got done throwing some Monster on the nose, because with its fuller shaped nose, I think it has the added feature of nose-riding it built right in. Something that on my pulled-in nosed other boards was difficult to pull off.....at least for me that is. :-\
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Here's a sneak peek at what I'll be getting once it's done. It's 9-5 x 32.5, vol 160L, an L41. I only weigh 170 but due to various and sundry I need the stability of someone who weighs, oh, I dunno, 250 or thereabout (ie, SupTheCreek's old weight :D). Also, I have no interest in short-board-style riding, so what Kirk has come up with for me is a longboard simsup, for longboard-type moves (ie, just standin' there in trim, speeding along, hopefully :)). The nose of the board in this pic looks bulbous; I think that's due to the wide-angle lens and that in reality, the widest part is back in the hips. In any event, I won't be doing no round-house cutbacks on this baby; with that tail and the great-big-honking fin that probably comes with it, it'll be hard enough just swinging it around after the take off. Whatever. Seems like it ought to be a great small-wave summertime SUP. Can't wait for it to get here!
Nice.....is that a TipSIMSUP or based on it?
That is like what I'd be interested in....I was thinking 9' but 9'5" is even better.......if it is really for small or mushy waves, I want it even bigger and floatier...to make catching those types of waves even easier...
and I like to surf a long board style, including nose riding.
Let us know how you like it.