Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Tom on September 27, 2011, 09:33:03 AM

Title: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on September 27, 2011, 09:33:03 AM
I have had the privilege of being the first to buy a Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle, and used it yesterday in both flat water and in the surf. Bottom line is it does everything Bill says it will do and I am very please. I took it out in dead calm water on my 14 foot race board and it seemed very fast. My GPS’s batteries went dead after about 5 minutes, but I‘d guess I paddled about 2+ miles at a fairly brisk pace. I seemed less fatigued than I would have been with my other paddle.

I then took it out for about an hour in some waist to shoulder high wind swell and it worked very good. I have to adjust to a narrower shaft and a different type handle, but all and all, it really seems great.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: K1SUP on September 28, 2011, 01:46:00 PM
Jealous.  I want one:)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Caribsurf on September 28, 2011, 07:03:29 PM
Bill lent me his paddle for a demo for about a mile or two during the CApe Cod Bay Challenge and I was really impressed.  Felt great from first grip and it felt lighter and more comfortable than my KialoaToro, which I love by the way.

I think he is on to something

 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on September 28, 2011, 07:20:07 PM
I've had it out for the past two days for some surf sessions. Don't know if its all the paddle, but I'm sure catching a lot of waves. Today was pretty special.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 29, 2011, 08:26:10 AM
My bias goes beyond being Bill's bro, I'll be selling them here on the east coast, but I was blown away when I got to use the prototype. It's pretty surprising how much different it feels. So light and paddles so smooth it seems weird at first. I realized after that i had actually picked up my stroke count without even thinking about it. It just makes paddling easier, and the higher cadence just happens. The real shock comes when you switch back to what you were using. I can't wait to get the first shipment.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: linter on September 29, 2011, 09:07:48 AM
when you want me to write a story about it, i'll tell you where to send the paddle  ;D ;D ;D!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 29, 2011, 09:32:08 AM
Glad to hear you like the paddle Tom. I've had quite a few well known paddlers try it while we're down here in Dana Point, both in race length and surfing. All of them are sponsored by other paddle companies, so I can't name or quote them, but they all liked it a lot. So far we've had two criticisms--one guy didn't like the "sharkskin" effect of the handle. Most people really like it--the shaft surface has a uni-directional roughness that lets your hand slide down into stroke position, but resists sliding upwards. Most folks love it, but one person didn't. So I took some 200 grit sandpaper and tried just smoothing it a bit. Pretty cool, you can tune it for exactly how much bite you want, and even make areas of slide/bite,  so that critique turned out to be very helpful.

The other criticism was that the upper glue joint for the handle was rough and irritated one paddler's palm. We were going to shrink-wrap that joint but I like how perfectly clean it looks, so I haven't been doing it. I guess we'll provide shrinkwrap in case someone wants it.

That's it.

People have been describing the catch as "Solid, aggressive, powerful, and positive". All good words. And they call the stroke "smooth, quiet, weirdly steady". I tell people to try pulling harder since the paddle is actually smoother with a hard stroke. They all find that pretty shocking.

Honestly, I'm surprised at how well this paddle works. Every time I take it out it's a revelation. I especially like how it surfs. Pretty much one pull and I'm in most waves, but when I need a few strokes the plant is so reliable and strong that I can up the cadence and make about anything.

It's so steady when I lean back on it that even my weak cutbacks are feeling pretty tasty. I've had to get used to how it works on balance sweeps though, the back of the blade makes a lot of lift, so a hard swing makes the paddle skim over the water. I needed to learn to slow it down, but it gives a huge amount of stabilization force even when it's hardly moving.

I just heard this morning that the first shipment will arrive in Hood River when we get back--140 paddles, mostly 8.5" but we'll have a few 8" and 9".  As soon as I get the ecommerce element of Ke Nalu tested we'll be ready to take orders. Probably about a week.

Those of you that have PM'ed me reserving a paddle, I got your messages, you're on the list. I'll make sure you get them.

The retail price is 375, but naturally we have a deal for zoners and Ke Nalu members. Your choice of either $350 or a new Ke Nalu paddle bag ($65 retail). Like everything we're doing, the bag is a substantial improvement over what's currently available. For one thing it will fit any paddle up to 96". It holds two paddles with a blade separator to avoid scratching, and it's got a gusseted compartment to hold your leash, GPS, and other stuff and a bungee for towel, rashguards, etc.. Available in Red, white or Blue.

I need to figure out exactly how to handle the discount and/or free bag in the shopping cart system, but the coupon code will be ZONER.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on September 29, 2011, 01:28:56 PM
Glad to hear you like the paddle Tom. I've had quite a few well known paddlers try it while we're down here in Dana Point, both in race length and surfing. All of them are sponsored by other paddle companies, so I can't name or quote them, but they all liked it a lot. So far we've had two criticisms--one guy didn't like the "sharkskin" effect of the handle. Most people really like it--the shaft surface has a uni-directional roughness that lets your hand slide down into stroke position, but resists sliding upwards. Most folks love it, but one person didn't. So I took some 200 grit sandpaper and tried just smoothing it a bit. Pretty cool, you can tune it for exactly how much bite you want, and even make areas of slide/bite,  so that critique turned out to be very helpful.

The other criticism was that the upper glue joint for the handle was rough and irritated one paddler's palm. We were going to shrink-wrap that joint but I like how perfectly clean it looks, so I haven't been doing it. I guess we'll provide shrinkwrap in case someone wants it.

That's it.

People have been describing the catch as "Solid, aggressive, powerful, and positive". All good words. And they call the stroke "smooth, quiet, weirdly steady". I tell people to try pulling harder since the paddle is actually smoother with a hard stroke. They all find that pretty shocking.

Honestly, I'm surprised at how well this paddle works. Every time I take it out it's a revelation. I especially like how it surfs. Pretty much one pull and I'm in most waves, but when I need a few strokes the plant is so reliable and strong that I can up the cadence and make about anything.

It's so steady when I lean back on it that even my weak cutbacks are feeling pretty tasty. I've had to get used to how it works on balance sweeps though, the back of the blade makes a lot of lift, so a hard swing makes the paddle skim over the water. I needed to learn to slow it down, but it gives a huge amount of stabilization force even when it's hardly moving.

I just heard this morning that the first shipment will arrive in Hood River when we get back--140 paddles, mostly 8.5" but we'll have a few 8" and 9".  As soon as I get the ecommerce element of Ke Nalu tested we'll be ready to take orders. Probably about a week.

Those of you that have PM'ed me reserving a paddle, I got your messages, you're on the list. I'll make sure you get them.

The retail price is 375, but naturally we have a deal for zoners and Ke Nalu members. Your choice of either $350 or a new Ke Nalu paddle bag ($65 retail). Like everything we're doing, the bag is a substantial improvement over what's currently available. For one thing it will fit any paddle up to 96". It holds two paddles with a blade separator to avoid scratching, and it's got a gusseted compartment to hold your leash, GPS, and other stuff and a bungee for towel, rashguards, etc.. Available in Red, white or Blue.

I need to figure out exactly how to handle the discount and/or free bag in the shopping cart system, but the coupon code will be ZONER.

Who's going to sell your paddles in Sweden? They seem to be VERY interesting. (Looked at the 18 minute film) I really want to know, please!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on September 29, 2011, 01:33:52 PM
We need some pictures posted of the new PonoPaddle and bag..  :)

DJ
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on September 29, 2011, 04:30:14 PM
So i've got one question about that paddle.  It seems that narrower shaft wouldn't be as comfortable.  Kind of like bench pressing or doing exercises with standard bars as opposed to olympic.  Same thing if I were doing lat pullups on a narrow bar as opposed to a larger diameter one.  I'd prefer the larger diameter one so that the stress is over a larger part of my hand/fingers.  I guess a solution to that is adding tennis grip or tape to it but I don't like to do that.  What's your experience with the comfort of the narrower shaft (oh boy, that just didn't come out right) :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on September 29, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
I got use to the narrower shaft pretty quickly. I was in the water for quite a while yesterday, which was day 3 with the new paddle, and I didn't really notice the narrower paddle. I'm sure narrower is stronger because you get a tighter weave, more fibers per square inch for the same weight.

I really can't compare this paddle to my other paddle which is a Werner Carve. The Carve is very a different paddle from most other 'conventional' paddles. I really liked the Werner, but not as much as my new Ke Nalu.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 29, 2011, 04:57:59 PM
I only paddled with it for 15 mins or so, so take what I say with that in mind. One of the first things you notice is how slender the shaft is...wasn't sure I liked it when I first started paddling. After paddling a few minutes though it felt good. Then when we switched back my paddle felt too thick....that went away too though so the difference isn't something you can't adapt to....at least for me...and i have big hands.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on September 29, 2011, 05:23:21 PM
Big hands, slender shaft?   :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 29, 2011, 06:12:58 PM
Okay, whose gonna post the appropriate lewd picture.

the shaft is a pretty odd thing, so far everyone likes it a lot. It's quite a bit smaller diameter than normal, but I think that because you don't have to grip the shaft to control the blade, it doesn't matter. You can paddle with very open hands because there's no wobble, and everyone seems to adapt to that really quickly.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 29, 2011, 08:10:52 PM
 :o ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on October 01, 2011, 04:27:59 AM
Bill,
can you ship the paddle to Spain? If so, I would be interested.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 01, 2011, 07:05:40 AM
And if possible, perhaps one to Sweden please?  :)

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 01, 2011, 08:35:07 AM
We will be able to handle international shipping with the eCommerce system I'm setting up, and we'll be using PayPal as the core transaction choice, and they handle currency conversion nicely, so there should be no problem. We can ship the paddle with the blade off the shaft to reduce package size as long as people are comfortable cutting the shaft to their chosen length and hot-glueing the bits together.

One of the people who has a paddle is an Australian surfing champion, and he changed the length of his paddle in his hotel room at the Huntington Beach Hilton prior to the World Tour contest using the hair dryer with a little tape over some of the air inlet holes, so we know that hotel hairdryers work for gluing.

So we've got that going for us.

He also didn't like the grab of the "sharkskin" shaft, so he sanded it lightly and loved the result. I like to sand it a little above the grip area and leave it fully aggressive at my usual grip. It's nice to have the ability to tune the paddle the way you like it. The "skin" is less than a thousandth of an inch of texture, so 200 or even 400 grit knocks it down. Most people like it and leave it alone, but people who like full control over their paddle transfer might feel it gets in the way.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 01, 2011, 08:51:53 AM
We will be able to handle international shipping with the eCommerce system I'm setting up, and we'll be using PayPal as the core transaction choice, and they handle currency conversion nicely, so there should be no problem. We can ship the paddle with the blade off the shaft to reduce package size as long as people are comfortable cutting the shaft to their chosen length and hot-glueing the bits together.

One of the people who has a paddle is an Australian surfing champion, and he changed the length of his paddle in his hotel room at the Huntington Beach Hilton prior to the World Tour contest using the hair dryer with a little tape over some of the air inlet holes, so we know that hotel hairdryers work for gluing.

So we've got that going for us.



Hello!
Paypal is excellent. But I'm a bit concerned about the glueing. Will there be some instructions on "how to do"?

Cheers

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 01, 2011, 09:08:46 AM
Certainly. The ability to unglue the paddle to fix components and change length is an important feature. We're having hang tags printed that cover all the things you can do to the paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on October 01, 2011, 09:29:46 AM
Sounds good Bill. Pls let me know when I can order it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: K1SUP on October 01, 2011, 10:54:17 AM
If that works as well as your testing indicates that is a great feature to be able to unglue and add a longer shaft if need be.   Wish I could do that on my Starboard paddle that is too short:)

You should sell some raffle tickets for a couple of paddles.  Not sure if my wife is going to give me the ok to buy one as we have just purchased a couple of new race boards but I would be all over a few raffle tickets:)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bing on October 01, 2011, 11:51:34 AM
Hey Ponobill - do you have a website yet ?  How do you order one ?  I am thinking about buying one.  The paddle collection is starting to grow like my board collection.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 01, 2011, 01:38:11 PM
the website will be the Ke Nalu magazine site--I'm adding eCommerce to the site. I'll have it up in a few days, I find it hard to work in Hotel rooms, I need my ancient keyboard and my roller mouse.

What a sissy, I know, but the distractions have been great too. Adequate surf and warm (compared to Oregon) water, and then the finals of the surf contest at Huntington.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: gorgebob on October 10, 2011, 08:50:20 AM
I paddled the Ke Nalu at the BOP. Perfect for me besides the little extra glue on the handle. Gave me something to pick at for 10 miles. (Bill did change to a better handle in the parking lot with a glue gun) No flutter , shaft grip was nice for the distance race as sweat was flowing. No shoulder pain after the race. Looking for photo of the finish with paddle and  the logo side out. I have sent in a request for one .
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 07:56:41 AM
The site is up and working pretty well. I have paddles reserved for all the folks who contacted me. If you are in the USA and want a paddle please give the ecommerce system a try. I'm keeping things a bit quiet until I see what the bugs are. The Paypal stuff works fine, it's the shipping (UPS) that's driving me insane. I probably should just go to a flat (or free in the continental US) shipping rate and forget about the calculated shipping. It's the geek in me that wants to get it right.

The deal for Zoners is still on, but the coupon system is another challenge--it screws up the Paypal reporting. The transaction works but there's no detail.

We'll simply assume everyone that orders is a zoner since we're not talking about the paddle anywhere else.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 08:08:19 AM
Ok, I give, I switched to simple shipping until I can get this fixed. Free in the USA, 30 bucks everywhere else. Obviously the fee won't cover the cost but I want to get these paddles in people's hands.

We'll ship the paddles immediately, the paddle bags will come separately--they aren't here yet. Everyone that orders a paddle from these first 150 gets a bag, it's just going to be Zoners anyway.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 13, 2011, 09:08:47 AM
Ok, I give, I switched to simple shipping until I can get this fixed. Free in the USA, 30 bucks everywhere else. Obviously the fee won't cover the cost but I want to get these paddles in people's hands.

We'll ship the paddles immediately, the paddle bags will come separately--they aren't here yet. Everyone that orders a paddle from these first 150 gets a bag, it's just going to be Zoners anyway.

Great new Ke Nalu homepage! I am thinking of buying your paddle but I'm not sure about the handles? Ergo T-handle and... Will there be pics of them or was it just me not finding the pictures?  ???

Thanks!

Henrik F, Sweden
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: refthimos on October 13, 2011, 09:50:54 AM
Three thoughts:

Understand the site is still a work in progress but looking good so far and the paddles of course look amazing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 12:27:13 PM
I'm working on all that, it will be up in a few hours. The UPS rep is here showing me how to fix the shipping calculator, but we'll keep things as they are for a while.

The post I'm working on covers handles (with pics) and shafts. The shaft is just about flex. They look the same and the 90% weighs the same (five grams heavier). The 60 percent is 40 grams heavier.

I've tried them all extensively, and done flutter and wobble tests. No difference in the wobble, the 60% eliminates the last little bit of vibration. Personally, I'd go with the 100% even with my screwed up shoulders. The paddle feels good anyway. But if you LOVE flex then the 60 percent is worth the difference. The only thing I notice with the 90 percent is a bit more upper hand flex, which might be nice on long paddles.

I will precut the paddles if you like, just drop me an email. Otherwise they ship with the blade attached and the handle loose, with a coat of hot glue on the handle. You cut the shaft, heat it and the handle with a heat gun or good hairdryer and stick it together. Full instruction on Ke Nalu in a day or so. Standard shaft at full length and an ergo-T handle and a 8.5" blade is 82". With the 9" blade it's 83". For you extra tall folks there's a long shaft that yields 86" and 87" respectively.

For NBA players the extended Ergo T goes up to 93" with the long shaft. If you're really short, let us know your paddle length and we'll include a handle with a thicker  ferrule. The shaft is tapered, so if you cut it much shorter than 65" the handle gets a bit loose.  Not completely necessary, it still works, but we were whacky enough to make special molds for them, so you might as well have one.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on October 13, 2011, 12:31:26 PM
When I get my paddle... I am going to take it down the street to the Paddle Surf Warehouse to have them "cut the paddle" with me...

Nothing like a little guerilla marketing.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: weldernot on October 13, 2011, 04:15:17 PM
Yipee towards the upcoming post covering handles.  Like a few others, I, too, want some handle information to help me choose which one to order.  And, like a few others, I'm very excited about ordering soon.

(The paddle bag sounds very cool, too, Woohoo!)


Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on October 13, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
I ordered a couple but couldn't find a place to annotate long or standard shafts.   I sent an email to specify longs.  Is the extended handle really 375?

We may want to consolidate all of these ordering questions to a new thread.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 06:14:46 PM
When I get my paddle... I am going to take it down the street to the Paddle Surf Warehouse to have them "cut the paddle" with me...

Nothing like a little guerilla marketing.

Tim

One of the guys that works there (the big guy) was trying to get me to talk to his boss at the BOP. For some reason he was really excited about the paddles, he picked mine up like it was the holy grail. They're really nice, but still... Good thing he didn't see me toss it into the back of the pickup. I've been intentionally mean to mine to see how they hold up to abuse--at least that's what I tell Diane.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: K-541` on October 13, 2011, 06:44:28 PM
 Well I ordered the 8.5 just could not pass up the free shipping and swag. Just going to have to play salesman at the beach tomorrow to help pay for it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
I ordered a couple but couldn't find a place to annotate long or standard shafts.   I sent an email to specify longs.  Is the extended handle really 375?

We may want to consolidate all of these ordering questions to a new thread.

No, it's 50 bucks. When you look at the store page in grid view the price for the handle gets spaced waaay down. You can switch to list view, I'm going to set that up as standard until I can dive back into the CSS and clean up the pages. They are very complicated.

I've got you covered on the long shafts, though I think you might have gotten the last of them. Oh, nope, one left.

I'm still finishing the configuration page. it will explain all that. The standard shaft with the Maliko blade and an ergo-t handle is 83". With a Molokai (9") blade it's 84". the long shaft takes it to 89
Title: Ke Nalu Sizing Question
Post by: Six Feet and Glassy on October 13, 2011, 09:26:11 PM
Hey Pono Bill,

Sizing question:  What would the nearest equivalent be in your Ke Nalu paddle to QB's 100 sq in?  Should I go by square inches or width?

Thanks!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 13, 2011, 10:46:06 PM
They are a bit different because of the way the blade works. Our 8.5" at 93 square inches feels equivalent to me of the 100 sq inch QB (I own two of them). The 9 inch at 103 sq inches feels like a lot bigger catch.

I like the 9 inch a lot, but it penalizes a sloppy stroke pretty severely. You pull it a little past your feet and it just won't come out of the water. You've got to get it out when the blade is vertical, and you have to feather it. It's not a weight thing--it's actually almost the same weight as the 8.5. I think it's just the huge amount of lift the back side generates. Do a clean stroke and it pops out of it's own accord, get a little sloppy and it's in concrete.

The 8.5 is more forgiving, and the 8" is so quick you can do anything you want. My only complaint with the 8" is that it's so light it doesn't feel like you're doing anything, and it recovers so quick that I can't get my rhythm. I mean BANG, it's back, and I'm not quite ready. I guess if I was a faster cadence paddler I'd like it, but it's a little disconcerting for me.

The thing to remember is that the weight difference is all in the swing weight. The 8.5 and the 9 are almost the same weight, the 8" is 55 grams less in just the blade. That's HUGE in a paddle that weighs 450 grams.

We made some changes in the way the mold works from the 8.5 to the 9" and that's why they weigh the same--because the 9" is actually ten percent lighter per square inch. Then we apply that same improvement to the 8" and it's a way lighter blade--ten percent less area and ten percent less per square inch. Assume the blade is half the weight (225 grams) and then decrease that by 55 grams. Presto--twenty percent lighter swing weight. You have to be quick to keep up with it. I keep getting the paddle back to the front and then stare at it thinking "where did that come from"?

Same amount of carbon fiber, we just squashed more epoxy out of it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: capobeachboy on October 14, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
Bill – I am really, really digging the KeNalu paddle.  I’ve been going back to some of my other paddles now & then just for reference but the lightweight, functionality & versatility of this paddle have me spoiled.  I’m not using a GPS but my reach and stroke feel great thanks to a clean entry and zero flutter.  I’m looking forward to some winter racing to see how it goes and hopefully improve on some of my old times.  I was thinking of trying out an 8" blade for racing but the pull on the 8.5" feels about the same as my Nitro which is a little over 7" so I can understand your comments about it being too quick. Thanks again!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 14, 2011, 06:41:35 PM
I took a little break today from putting paddles together and went for a paddle with the 8" to see if I could adapt to it. Now I'm thinking maybe THIS is my race paddle. It really felt amazing once I got used to the lightness and even more the quickness. It really is pretty effortless. I sprinted way longer than I usually do, and felt just fine, even though I haven't been in the water much lately.

It took me about half an hour to get used to the cadence. I'm paddling probably ten percent more strokes per minute than I usually do--maybe more. I need to count the cadence and get a real number, and I need to get the GPS out, but I'm pretty sure I'm going faster. I think for longer races the nine is the ticket because it's so efficient, but for sprints this little eight feels just right. It seems like the blade is just always in the water. the recovery is so quick it's just never in the air.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 16, 2011, 08:41:15 AM
Ordered my WIKI the day before yesterday just to wake up yesterday morning to see that autumn arrived in full force. -2.2°C  :-\ ( 28 degrees F)

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 16, 2011, 12:43:22 PM
You're going to love it Henrik. Yours weighs 451 grams. On the way on Monday.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 16, 2011, 01:57:45 PM
You're going to love it Henrik. Yours weighs 451 grams. On the way on Monday.

Brilliant! I'll get the full wetsuit ready!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on October 24, 2011, 12:17:36 PM
The paddle arrived Friday... but I arrived back in the area too late to go get it...

I think I am going to cut this one to be a surf paddle... then get the extension to do distances with it if I really dig it...

Looks BEAU TI FUL, I must say!

I like the grippiness of the shaft... can't wait to give it a go!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on October 24, 2011, 07:43:18 PM
This is going to be FUN! Getting a box of paddles, all sizes, If anyone in the northeast is looking to demo let me know....love to hook up for a paddle or even better surf.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 25, 2011, 05:49:12 AM
We ran into a glitch on shipping paddles internationally. I'm working it out, we're going to have to put international distribution together quicker than we thought. I assumed I could forego profit and get individual paddles shipped and get some in people's hands, but DHL and UPS wanted $400 and $450 respectively to get paddles to Australia. Yikes. Good demand in Australia, it's probably the first place we'll get rolling.

On the happier side, folks are very happy with their paddles. We've had some glowing reviews. Remarkable reviews actually. I'll get them up on the site real soon now.

On the less happy side the website is giving me some fits. The logo disappeared a few days ago and hasn't been seen since. Some little glitch in the database--I'm digging through it. And Paypal doesn't like our address format sometimes. Some days PHP looks like Klingon.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 25, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
I really do hope it'll work out fine with international shipping.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Matt Ivey on October 25, 2011, 09:31:41 PM
Bill what is the best way to get ahold of you?  Left a message last week but I am sure you are busy.  Do you prefer email or over the phone? 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 25, 2011, 10:23:57 PM
I really do hope it'll work out fine with international shipping.

Henrik F

It didn't  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on October 25, 2011, 11:27:37 PM
Had trouble finding this thread until someone reposted.  I guess I'm the first one to take one on a Maliko run.... this afternoon.  It was a pretty good gliding day.  I have the 9" and it was fantastic but like Bill posted, you do get penalized for going back too far... so that's actually good.  
Blown away on the fast cadence.  Feels as fast as my QB 93.  Smooth and powerful.  Light, soo light the shaft seems to fly forward with a flick of the wrist.  Great texture on the shaft, no need to add any grip.  Definite WOW factor and a difference I didn't imagine would occur.  Great downwinding blade.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 26, 2011, 03:01:45 PM
I'm still working on it Henrik. What I really need is a good European distributor. No matter what we do, shipping one paddle is going to be expensive because of the bulk. But they don't weigh anything, so ten or even fifty can be shipped for similar money. When the shippers calculate the cost they use "effective weight" and the package size is categorized as weighing 15 pounds, even though it weighs 4, and three of the pounds is cardboard.

We got two more comments today from new Ke Nalu paddle owners, both raving about the paddle and both commented on how quiet it is. I guess being fairly deaf I didn't notice that. I do know how the vortexes look though. Here's brand X
(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/xortexbrandx.jpg)

and here's Ke Nalu
(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vortexKenalu.jpg)

As soon as I get some issues with the site fixed I'll do a page on the comments we are getting. Some really great feedback, lots of it constructive. For one thing I now know that I need to do a separate video on using the extended ergo-t handle. People don't realize how having six or ten inches of ferrule inside the shaft will let the glue grab unless it's good and warm, and heated evenly further down the shaft than you might expect. Even then there's a lot of drag.

I'm loving the extended handle though. I have it on all three of my paddles, and it lets me make little tweaks in the length and test it right away. I'm shocked at how long my race paddle length is now, just from testing and fiddling. I was at 82, now I'm up to 86 inches. Makes a big difference in paddle performance because I get the whole blade submerged before I pull.

With the brisk POP that good feathering causes and a recovery stroke that's just an inch over the surface, my paddling feels great. But when there's chop I need it a little shorter or I start hitting chop on the recovery.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on October 26, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
I'm still working on it Henrik. What I really need is a good European distributor. No matter what we do, shipping one paddle is going to be expensive because of the bulk. But they don't weigh anything, so ten or even fifty can be shipped for similar money. When the shippers calculate the cost they use "effective weight" and the package size is categorized as weighing 15 pounds, even though it weighs 4, and three of the pounds is cardboard.



I understand and I hope you find some great importer over here in Europe!

Many thanks for all the effort you've put into this shipping matter

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: southwesterly on October 27, 2011, 09:50:26 AM
Due to the Coriolis effect, the vortices in the northern hemisphere
will spin counter clockwise and the opposite is true for our friends down under.
This is a good example of a southern hemisphere swirl.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 27, 2011, 10:27:49 AM
Actually that's only true for vortices in a balanced system, where they could easily go either way. If you look at the vortices on a paddle you'll see that one spins clockwise and the other spins counterclockwise.

I actually made the vortices reverse direction in some of the test paddles. It was quite a trick and lead me down a rathole trying to bring the flow to a balance point that would eliminate the vortices. Doesn't work. Or at least it doesn't yet. While I was typing this I had another brainstorm.

Damn.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on October 27, 2011, 10:35:35 AM
Now I'm wondering if it's even possible for a clock to spin counterclockwise. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Brui on October 27, 2011, 12:33:12 PM
Hi Pono, if you need help with PHP..let me know  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: southwesterly on October 27, 2011, 02:41:03 PM
Actually that's only true for vortices in a balanced system, where they could easily go either way. If you look at the vortices on a paddle you'll see that one spins clockwise and the other spins counterclockwise.


Correct, that's why it's called the Coriolis effect.
Little things like gravity, inertia and momentum never take a day off.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Six Feet and Glassy on October 27, 2011, 07:44:55 PM
Finally got the Ke Nalu in the water today.  Conditions were kinda terrible - onshore light trades - but I went anyway.

Some info:  My last distance paddle was a QB 90 Kanaha (not the Elite, so a little heavier).  With the fingertip method, the Ke Nalu is two inches longer than the QB.

First impression was the weight.  Light light light.  The light weight allows a quick recovery, as PB mentioned.  

The paddle feels smooth and quiet.  I know.  I know.  When I first read that on other posts, I thought, "Sounds like advertising gibberish."  But really, no shite, it is Smooth and Quiet, meaning it enters the water with less disturbance, grabs without wobble (even with a light grip), and it releases without much disturbance or splashing.  

The smaller shaft feels great and seems to allow a stronger pull with a lighter grip.  But I do have small hands.   I usually use tape on the shaft but the texture on this Ke Nalu has me rethinking that.  It felt pretty good with only some slip when wet today (we surfed some manini waves too - fun on a 14'!).

It all really is noticeable.  And I'm not that good a paddler!

I thought the pull on this 8.5" blade felt the same as my QB 90.  Note that it was too rough to take out both my paddles, but I did switch and try a friend's QB 100 today, and to me the QB 100 felt like a heavier pull than the Ke Nalu 8.5".  But check out other reviews on that cuz PB said the Ke Nalu 8.5" feels to him like his QB 100.  So see for yourself if possible.  

My actual first impression had nothing to do with the paddle.  I was simply reminded that paddling into the wind on a sup, with a long paddle, SUCKS.  This paddle at this length would Rawk on a howling downwinder.  But since most Oahu days are nowhere near that,  I might cut it down a couple inches (that would still leave it at 14 inches overhead).

Gotta take my son to baseball practice.  Hope this is useful to someone.  Paddle On!!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 27, 2011, 10:56:47 PM
Take advantage of the grip and choke down on the paddle like Connor does when you're going upwind. The grip makes it work pretty well. Even though the texture is perpendicular to the shaft, it still keeps the paddle from twisting in your hands.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Six Feet and Glassy on October 28, 2011, 01:05:44 AM
Hah!  PB,  I did try that today!  Had lots of time to try different "Connor" positions.  It's a game of diminishing returns:  The lower you grab, the more power you have, but you're also burning a lot more O2 bending over.  Trick seems to be adjusting to the conditions and balancing those two things:  going low enough that you get more power, but not so low that you burn out.

Took the shaft down a couple inches anyway (it's so fast with the hot glue!).  Fourteen inches overhead is plenty, methinks.  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerSwede on October 28, 2011, 06:16:14 AM
I'm interested too. I guess if we get another 2 or 3 swedes in the deal it would be OK freightwise?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 28, 2011, 08:13:14 AM
Hah!  PB,  I did try that today!  Had lots of time to try different "Connor" positions.  It's a game of diminishing returns:  The lower you grab, the more power you have, but you're also burning a lot more O2 bending over.  Trick seems to be adjusting to the conditions and balancing those two things:  going low enough that you get more power, but not so low that you burn out.

Took the shaft down a couple inches anyway (it's so fast with the hot glue!).  Fourteen inches overhead is plenty, methinks.  ;D

It definitely helps to be 16 when you're doing that kind of stuff. It has to be really extreme for me to choke up on the shaft. I'd rather just keep trucking.

The hot glue thing has turned out to be such a great feature. No more spoiled paddles! And if you screw up and cut off too much you buy the extended handle and you have even more versatility.

BTW, I just posted videos on using the extended handle and customizing the grip on the "Assembling Your Ke Nalu Paddle" page. https://www.kenalu.com/paddle-tips/assembling-your-new-ke-nalu-paddle/ (https://www.kenalu.com/paddle-tips/assembling-your-new-ke-nalu-paddle/)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 28, 2011, 08:20:48 AM
I'm interested too. I guess if we get another 2 or 3 swedes in the deal it would be OK freightwise?

Probably so. While we were waiting for our custom box to be built we were shipping the paddles in a 85" X 10" X 5" box that can contain four paddles easily. If we ship them broken down (blades off the shafts--the blades go on with a hairdryer or heat gun, same as the handles) we could easily get ten in a box. That box is the one we got the shipping quote on.

The weight difference doesn't affect the shipping cost significantly, it's all the bulk. Until we get international distributors, we'll be glad to ship mixed orders like this into any country.

We won't do that into Australia or Canada--we have distributors there who are getting ready to roll.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: westbeach on October 28, 2011, 10:19:42 AM
Bill,

Who are the distributors for Canada please? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 28, 2011, 11:39:46 AM
Abbotsford! I stay there when I go to race at Mission with all the crazy canuck vintage car racers.

Let me check and make sure our distributor is ready for inquiries, it's going to be a little while before he gets his first shipment of paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: westbeach on October 28, 2011, 11:52:31 AM
Bill,

Coming up to Abby anytime soon?  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on October 29, 2011, 06:50:50 AM
Car racing season is over for me. The next trip I take is to Maui.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on October 30, 2011, 08:18:14 PM
Okay... paddle is cut.

Glued on the very nice fitting ergo handle...

I love the way the textured shaft picks up wax...

Waxed up the handle...

A very tough week upcoming... but I see a little window of opportunity (and a little swell) for Thursday.

Will update.  I just looked at my surf paddle and it is beat... It is my first paddle and is called frankenpaddle (broken shaft twice, broken blade twice, broken handle once)... My local spot is kind of tough on equipment... and bodies...

Will give a review after I try it.

Tim

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on November 02, 2011, 12:12:38 PM
I've been fondling my new Ke Nalu paddle (Maliko 9" with Flex100 shaft, Ergo handle) for a week and it finally warmed up enough to try it.

It's tough to put into words how blown away I was with it !

The lightness is the first thing you notice, but it's not the only thing that sets these paddles apart. The smoothness all the way from catch to release is simply outstanding. It's like the difference between driving a Jeep and a Cadillac.

The catch is super-clean and a couple times I wasn't sure it even entered the water -- no sound whatsoever, and not a hint of a splash.

The pull is smooth -- no wobble at all unless you deliberately try to induce it but you'd have to do it intentionally. If you hold the handle with even a slight amount of pressure, there is zero, and I mean zero wobble.

The release is totally predictable and doesn't stick to the water like other blades with concave shapes -- it just pops out easily and cleanly and jumps forward.

And finally, the transition is effortless because of the light weight. Crossing sides is extra easy because of the lightness and it's simple to line your hands up again because it just seems to fall into place.

I love the sharkskin texture of the shaft, and I really like the narrowness of the shaft (even with size 10 hands). i think I can paddle much  longer without getting nearly as tired as with a conventional paddle.

Bill has a real winner on his hands and once the word gets out, he's going to have a hard time keeping up with the orders!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on November 02, 2011, 05:25:21 PM
I would like to echo everything Rogue Wave said.  This paddle is a significant advance.  For me, the biggest difference is in the catch.  Once it goes in, it is planted.  I had been using a qb elite 100 in and went for the 9 in wide maliko which should be equivalent in surface area.  The Maliko paddles MUCH larger than the elite.  Weights and stiffness are comparable.

The water entry is something you just need to try.  It goes in smoothly and is instantly engaged.  With the quickblade, I felt that I almost had to cock the handle forward to get the blade vertical to engage the water.  I have actually been thinking I was overreaching as the "cocking" move would pull me off balance.

I just got to try the 8 in today.  Same story.  I had some pretty stiff headwinds and appreciated the slightly smaller blade.

The extended handle is a great feature which shouldn't be overlooked.  Infinite adjustability. 

One tip I have to offer:
I have a heat gun and have read the stories on the board about destroying shafts to get old epoxied handles out.  It can be hard to recognize the glue melting transition point by sight alone.    I have a Black and Decker leak detector that can measure temps
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-TLD100-Thermal-Detector/dp/B001LMTW2S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320279067&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-TLD100-Thermal-Detector/dp/B001LMTW2S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320279067&sr=8-1)

I think the glue melts around 160 F  so I just heat the handle and shaft into the 150-200 range and glue it up.  I haven't tried to figure out the upper limit.  Maybe Bill can sacrifice some shaft chunks.

PS.  I have tried (and still have) Werners (spankers, Fuse bent shaft, carve, Fuse 3pc), C4 (Pohaku, carbon kevlar race), qb elites in varous sizes, a Powerex.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 02, 2011, 05:45:39 PM
  I had been using a qb elite 100 in and went for the 9 in wide maliko which should be equivalent in surface area.  The Maliko paddles MUCH larger than the elite.  Weights and stiffness are comparable.
Juandoe--so does the 9" feel more like a QB 110?  Would someone who's happy with their QB 100 (me) be better off with a 8.5" Ke Nalu than a 9"?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on November 02, 2011, 06:58:43 PM
  I had been using a qb elite 100 in and went for the 9 in wide maliko which should be equivalent in surface area.  The Maliko paddles MUCH larger than the elite.  Weights and stiffness are comparable.
Juandoe--so does the 9" feel more like a QB 110?  Would someone who's happy with their QB 100 (me) be better off with a 8.5" Ke Nalu than a 9"?
I have a qb elite 90 and the 8 in wiki feels bigger.  I have tried the 9 on 3 sessions and felt it was a just a bit large (if I hit a headwind, it would be hard to maintain my cadence).  I only tried the 8in today and that was in a headwind but it never felt too small.  If you like the qb 100, I would say try the 8.5.

I am riding a Surftech Bark Dominator and weigh around 190 lbs.  Paddles are at 85".  I am just under 5'11"
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 05, 2011, 04:57:28 PM
I echo Juan.  Tried mine this morning. The Maliko.  Really tough, fun conditions.  Windswell plus groundswell, plus warbles from storm, plus offshore winds.  I chose to ride my micro sup, the collab.  Bad decision. I could have caught three times as many waves if I rose my 8'3". The paddle feels like it sticks in cement as you pull yourself to the paddle.  Oops, gotta go to a wedding.  More later.  Paddles WAY bigger than 9 inches.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 05, 2011, 05:28:39 PM
Actually you have a Molokai Tim, it will be interesting to see what you think after you've tried it a few more times. I'm pretty hooked on that big catch now that I've been using mine awhile--especially in surf. I had to learn to calm down, it gives you so much pull you just don't need to yank on it.

It's especially interesting to try using your other paddles after you're comfortable with the Molokai.



Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on November 05, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Installed the handles on 3 Kenalus today The hot glue worked like a charm with my wifes blow drier. I installed 3 handles in under 10 mins. When you push the ferrule in it leaves a bead of glue around the connection. Let it start to harden (kind of rubbery) and use your finger to smooth it and remove excess. Leaves a nice smooth finish. One handle I noticed was a little crooked after it had hardened and a minute with the hair dryer softened it enough to twist.

 Did a test today of all three sizes back to back and my current paddle as a benchmark. Very bumpy micro period NE windswell from knee to chest high, onshore gusty winds around 15 kts with lots of chop. Kind of fitting that I test them under these conditions. I require a lot more use of a paddle than most people and it was conditions like these that I used as my balance workout when I 1st started to SUP.

I went out with my current paddle 1st just to set the benchmark and get the feel in my head. I'm very comfortable with it, great paddle.

The 1st KeNalu I tried was the 9" Molokai. I tend to like larger blades (current is 110 sq. in) and with the Molokai at 105 I figured it would likely be the paddle of chose for me. I couldn't believe how hard it grabs water. First really hard pull I almost came off the board. Theres no comparison to other blades at 105 sq in. I'd say it feels more like 120 or even more. Very smooth though. After about 15 mins i got used to it and had adjusted my stroke a little (shorter) but it still feels very aggressive. Crazy pull into a wave.

I jumped right to the 8" Wiki next. I've tried other paddles with smaller blades. I haven't found any that gave me enough grab. So I was shocked when the 8" felt so good. It's so light and paddles so easy. I consciously really shortened my stroke. I tend to use a long stroke because I've always felt the need for balance reasons. Now I found myself using a very short tahitian style stroke, high cadence, and liking it. I can also  throw this thing around so easily it hardly feels like anything is there. But again the blade feels much bigger than it is. Under todays conditions I think it was my favorite of the 3. They're all ridiculously light but being able to move the Wiki around so easily gave it the edge today. I might also be biased because of the 3 its grab felt most similar to my current paddle (despite being 26 sq. in smaller)

The 8.5 Maliko felt like you might expect, in the middle of the two.  

All of them paddle remarkably smooth and grab far above their face size. I'm going to have to do a lot more testing in various conditions to know which I'll use on a given day. My gut tells me that I'll likely end up with a 9" for surf and an 8" for racing and downwind but it might just be the 8.5" with two handles, regular for surf and extended for racing. The fact that the handles can be swapped so easily is great..

The last test was to paddle with my current paddle again. This is a blade that I've really liked for a long time. This is when you really notice just how different the KeNalus are. I still don't understand just what the hell you did Bill but holy shit these are awesome. You've really nailed this.

One thing I noticed that I didn't like. The shark skin texture on the shaft provides a very aggressive grip with gloves on, too much for me. I pulled off the gloves for a bit and loved the feel though so i don't think I want to remove the texture.. I think I'll try some cloth gloves over the rubber and see how that effects grip. Ideally hands will slide but grip when you want it. I got used to it as the day progressed but I'll need to look at ways to make it feel better when wearing gloves.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 06, 2011, 08:26:06 AM
Thanks for the correction on the paddle name Pono.  I have the big one... very similar in surface area to my "go to" surf paddle but paddles bigger.  Here is how I could tell that your are getting serious traction with that paddle.  When I am on my micro SUP, as I go to stand, I have to plant the paddle when half way up and start stroking to get some interia (because the board is entirely under water at that point).  With my standard surf paddle, by the time I am up and moving comfortably I have turned 90 or so degrees (a few quick jab strokes with imperfect form to say the least)... with the PonoPaddle, I was almost at 360 degrees!  So basically, each of my little jab strokes was pushing significantly more water...

I honestly didn't expect this paddle to be any better or different than my QBs.  i just thought it was cool that Bill went all in, rethought things, and cranked out a paddle or three (in between moving, car racing, etc.) and I like to support Zoners... and I needed a new surf paddle...  I figured that I would buy it, use it and it would be good... it is all that and more (way, way better than that custom SUP knife that Spookini sold me... that thing is a piece of crap... he just took a Swiss Army knife from Costco, and wrote in black permanent marker "SUP" on the handle ... really Spookini??? :)

Anyway, entry noise?  None.  Warble?  None.  Catch?  A big ass piece of water. 

Frankly, using that paddle with the Collab on a really tricky day was a bad idea.  Marginal changes on a marginal SUP can be huge... but during the struggles of the morning I could see where this paddle absolutely shines...

I am going to go out today during the storm and either go downwind on my new bump shagger from Corran (pic's in a bit... picked up yesterday on the way home from surfing) or if the waves hold up, go out on my 8'3".  I can REALLY see this paddle working like a turbo button with a standard size SUP like my 8'3"... 

One more thing.  This paddle absolutely PUNISHES bad form.  My form was pretty bad yesterday as the conditions were so difficult... after about 45 minutes, my forearms were SHOT!  My forearms never get tired doing standup... ever... I realized that in struggling with the conditions, I let my form lapse, and wasn't leaning and twisting... I was using forearms (i know... embarrassing...).  I chastised myself, remembered what my form "post it" in my wallet says, and reached, planted, leaned and twisted and flipped for the rest of the session... forearm problem solved.

One more thing now for real... I am an ergo handle guy... and it would be cool to have the handle extension available in the ergo grip as well as the T-grip.  I know how to turn a T grip into an ergo grip... it is just ugly and soaks up water... I will probably be ordering an extension anyway so I can use it for distance (properly use it...)

Tim

 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 06, 2011, 04:54:29 PM
Bob,
You can modify the sharkskin, you don't have to take it all the way off, and you can "zone" it so it's aggressive at your grip and smooth elsewhere. Just get some cue stick sandpaper--the really fine stuff, and give it a light polish. Try it way down near the blade first, where you'll never grip it. It's easy to reduce the grip, but you can't put it back on. If you look at the ridges under a microscope, they are slanted towards the blade and have a little bit of tooth to them. That's why they even grip radially as well as axially. When you sand the grip the ridges round over and the tooth go away. It happens quickly, so go light.

I've gotten used to it, but it gave me some blisters at first. Pretty aggressive grip. I polished my wiki on the upper shaft (above the grip area) to help with the paddle transitions. I need all the help I can get to keep up with that little bugger. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on November 06, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
That was exactly what bothered me about the sharkskin texture. During transitions my hands weren't smoothly sliding into position with gloves on. I'll try the sanding outside the grip area.. I really like the texture with bare hands so being able to keep it in the grip but remove it outside would be perfect..
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 06, 2011, 07:51:44 PM
Stoneaxe--sounds like once you do the sanding Bob will be your uncle as well as your brother.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 06, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
Actually Stoneaxe IS Bob, I'm Bill.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 06, 2011, 08:44:47 PM
I shouldn't be showing this off since we may not go into production with it. Mostly depends on whether or not I break the thing surfing with it, but I call this SuperWiki. Our standard 8" wiki blade and an ultralight carbon shaft--it's actually one of our long (170 CM) shafts AND an extended T handle to make it all adjustable: 420 grams. That's 14.75 ounces. It was actually 390 grams with the standard handle.

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/superwiki.jpg)

We might do it as an ultralight, no warranty, racing paddle. So far it's standing up really well though. A well known, very powerful racer bent the heck out of it today for a couple of miles against wind and current without the slightest hint of protest. I thought sure he was going to bust it. I had a spare paddle along, partly just for testing, and partly to make sure we could both get back.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RyanSurfNTurf on November 06, 2011, 08:45:35 PM
Stoneaxe--once you do the sanding Bob will be your uncle as well as your brother.
Rim shot :D :D :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 06, 2011, 08:54:00 PM
Actually Stoneaxe IS Bob, I'm Bill.
Oops--I guess I got thrown off by daylight savings time ending.  I guess I should have said if you sanded it, then Bob would be your uncle and your brother. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on November 08, 2011, 01:54:47 PM
I had the paddle out again and it felt even better than the first time.

I tried my old paddle afterwards and now it's junk - there's no way I could be happy with it ever again (that's a good thing!).

FYI, it's a good thing that there is a Canadian distributor now because it cost me $110.47 extra for things like duty ($28.54) customs GST ($20.45), brokerage GST/HST ($5.93), entry prep fee (whatever the heck that is - $49.70), and bond fee ($5.85).

YIKES!!!

That did not include the shipping cost. Still, the paddle is totally worth it!

Lee
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on November 08, 2011, 05:27:38 PM
it is all that and more (way, way better than that custom SUP knife that Spookini sold me... that thing is a piece of crap... he just took a Swiss Army knife from Costco, and wrote in black permanent marker "SUP" on the handle ... really Spookini??? :)

Leps, that was just the prototype.  For the production model, we are leaning toward going w/ Ginsu.  Cuts through fishing line AND coke cans AND still will slice your tomatoes perfectly.  Plus we'll likely be throwing in a free cutting board.  ONLY for the zoners, though!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on November 08, 2011, 07:23:21 PM
spook...lets get together soon...you can check one of these bad babies out.... ;D

Hey Bill...you ought to consider a 7" blade...pair it up with that ultralight shaft you're talking about  Where would that get you?...350 grams? Lightweight racers and even just small (like Sue) recreational paddlers would love it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 08, 2011, 11:41:46 PM
We have a number of new approaches in the works. Some of them are pretty radical. It's going to get interesting.  I don't expect it all to work, but it's going to be fun trying.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 09, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
I want to make a blade that's good for small people. But I'm not sure that simply scaling the current design smaller is the best approach. We'll might do something somewhat radical for that. It's tough for me to consider a blade that slips more to be superior--like putting tires made of teflon on your car.

Yup, they'll spin.

But making a very small blade that catches like crazy seems like an interesting direction. Our paddle has enough curve on the back to provide some wing effect, but there's more to be had. The problem is that the increased pull caused by lift on the back of the blade has an unstable center of force. If we can cure that we'll have more catch and general efficiency to play with.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Time for SUPper on November 09, 2011, 12:22:30 PM
Finally got a chance to use my Wiki... love it.  The blade enters the water so smoothly with very little effort.  It makes me feel like I'm much better than I probably am.  All that talk of the thing popping out of the water at the end of your stroke isn't BS either.  It's like magic (or excellent design).  The ero-T is the best of both worlds; comfortable to hold but with great control of the paddle angle.  Finally, I love the textured shaft.  I can extend a couple more inches with just my fingertips holding on with no risk of slipping.

Kudos, Bill, for designing a near-perfect paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Southbay on November 10, 2011, 08:48:54 AM
This is no joke. I seriously bought it because I wanted to support Bill and the forum. I won't repeat everything that everyone else has said ie. SO smooth, crazy catch etc.  I love this paddle.  In fact I gave it to my cousin to try, during my one session with the paddle so far, and he seemed to love it. Then, he grabbed his paddle back and said, "this feels terrible now, how can I get one?". Crazy hype, NO, great paddle yes.  Thanks Bill.

Southbay
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on November 10, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
Session #2 of paddle testing today. 2 hours of chest to head bumpy mushy surf in Newport in pouring rain, but at least it was warm...60 in November is always a plus. The warm weather let me go gloveless. Love the sharkskin without gloves.

Started with the 9 again. I'm still surprised by the catch. Only paddles I've tried that compare are much bigger and more aggressive in their shape, Quickblade Peahi and Powerex. Paddled for an hour and started getting used to the power. No question there were a couple of waves I likely would have missed with other paddles that I managed to make. You can actually pull hard and shove the board forward with your feet and get on and then use the next stroke to get back into form. I was trying to see how hard I could crank on it to see if i could make it slip at all. Nada...feels like its set in concrete and thats with my full 270 lbs leaning on it. It comes at a price though. Had to take a break after about an hour, my arms were dead. My form sucks because of my crappy balance and the 9 is very unforgiving of that.

After the break I took out the 8.5. Still plenty of catch but i noticed immediately that my cadence picked up and I was relying more on blade speed than brute force. It also let me throw it around more which is good in conditions like these....I do a lot of balance checks. After today i think I may end up using the 8.5 for surf. Nice blend of power and speed for me. I'm liking the ergo T handle the best. Thought i would prefer the ergo but the ergo-T  has a great feel and grip, seems to give me a little better control. Didn't notice any problems with transitions on the sharkskin without the gloves on and I'm really digging the solid grip.

Didn't get to the 8...wind was coming up and it was getting blown out choppy and it started raining so hard I was having a hard time seeing.

Can't wait to have some of the crew try these out and hearing what they think. If the forecast holds I'll probably head up to Nantasket for Sunday dawn patrol to paddle with the crew there.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 10, 2011, 10:05:12 PM
I got several emails about the wing paddle idea. they ran along the line of "whadda ya mean MORE catch, this thing is pulling me off the board as it is". I know it feels that way, but really, you get used to it, and there's no such thing as too much catch. there's just blades that are too big to use well. I don't really think the 9" blade is overpowering people, I think they're used to pulling harder than they need to. If you've got a Molokai, try just lightening up on your pull. Makes a big difference. You don't need to yank it, just set the paddle and pull firmly.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ericspin on November 11, 2011, 09:28:02 AM
I got several emails about the wing paddle idea. they ran along the line of "whadda ya mean MORE catch, this thing is pulling me off the board as it is".

I do all my surfski paddling with an Epic mid wing and it is one of the most satisfying pieces of water sports equipment I own.  I would love to see what a wing would do on the end of a SUP paddle.  And as we have discussed before....talk about clean water off the face of a paddle.....it's super clean off my mid wing. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 11, 2011, 11:18:48 AM
Of course a surfski or kayak paddle enters the water more or less horizontally vs. SUP/canoe paddles entering vertically, so the design issues are a bit different. The stability of the center of force is less of an issue--or rather it's an issue that kayak paddlers have to deal with anyway because of the blade angle. The weird thing about kayak paddles in my opinion is that they tend to have face dihedral parallel to the shaft, just like a canoe paddle. I don't know what that's for. Sometime this winter I'll instrument up some surfski paddles and see what they are doing. If nothing else it will be one more data point.

I'm even more puzzled by sculling paddles. I suspect they are throwing away a lot of energy. They leave a residual vortex that lasts for more than a minute. It might just be a design compromise that works out. I looked over a new hull a few days ago that is 27' long and 9" wide at the waterline. Talk about hull speed!! The bow wave was nonexistant. All it had was a stern wave with a little ripple in front of it that was probably the refracted remnants of what would be a bow wave with a wider hull.

It got some wheels turning in my pointy head.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 250SUP on November 11, 2011, 03:48:15 PM
So for Canadian orders do we go through you online store or directly through your Canadian distributor?

Interested in trying one, but cross border shipping of sup gear ends up being a pain.

Let us Canucks know once the Canadian distributor is ready to take orders.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 11, 2011, 04:07:29 PM
it will certainly be much easier to get it from our Canadian distributor (or more likely, your local dealer) once he gets his initial order. It's being made up and should be on the way in a few days. His website is http://kenalupaddles.com/ (http://kenalupaddles.com/) , and he'll probably chime in here since he's an active zoner. I don't mean to be coy, but I don't want to steal someone else's thunder.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: westbeach on November 11, 2011, 07:21:03 PM
Lee ( Rogue Wave ) is the guy to talk to for all Canadian orders.

So for Canadian orders do we go through you online store or directly through your Canadian distributor?

Interested in trying one, but cross border shipping of sup gear ends up being a pain.

Let us Canucks know once the Canadian distributor is ready to take orders.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on November 12, 2011, 07:21:51 AM
I don't want to cross the line of forum pimp here, so I hope no one minds...

We're offering free shipping in Canada and a money back guaranty if you're not 100% satisfied with the paddles. I'm very confident that no one will take advantage of that -- the paddles are truly amazing in every respect, including the construction and finishing (which we haven't talked too much about).

There will be dealers set up across Canada where you can see and try the paddles, or you can buy direct from us. Please feel free to e-mail me at lee@kenalupaddles.com if you have any questions.

We will keep updating the website as we get new information and more photos of the paddles.

Thanks!

Lee
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on November 12, 2011, 08:36:33 AM
Well, I've had the paddle for a month and a half (seven pages ago) and gotta say I still love it. I've mostly been using it for surfing and I can catch waves much easier and don't have sore shoulder muscles after a long session. I've also used it with my race board and it is definitely faster that my old paddle. I used it at my surf lenght, but have ordered the handle extension.

Too me, its pretty impressive that someone can come up with an improved paddle. When you think about it, a paddle has to be one of the first tools ever invented.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on November 12, 2011, 03:41:55 PM
Bill,
Got my Wiki paddle today, it's one nice paddle.  I like how the paddle edge is smoothed out, especially on the joint area where it meets the shaft.  Other, well known paddles have a very rough, sometimes sharp edge there which I find does damage to rails, even more so than the blade itself.  The ergo grip is beautiful, and light as a feather..heck the whole paddle is light as a feather.  I have a few larger paddles and went with the Wiki for a fast cadence paddle, looking forward to getting into the water really soon.  Thanks for shipping it out so quickly, now if the weather will cooperate, it's pretty soppy outside.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 12, 2011, 04:59:06 PM
Not to pile on... but I had the Molokai (the big one) out on my step up board (8'3" by 27") in 4-6 foot crazy stormy combo swell, swirling winds, shifting to a strong SE wind.  I was alternating between two reefs about 700 yards apart.  Did a five hour session.  For the last bit of the session, I was going to switch back to my old surf paddle... (to compare), but there were some bombies and I didn't want to miss any by running back up the beach to switch. 

As I suspected last week... the horsepower on this bigger board is perfectly matched with the bigger blade.  Last week paddling my collab was a little bit like dropping the Diablo 12 into a Gallardo... (or maybe even an Elise)... just too many ponies for the frame... (the higher revving Wiki should pare nicely with the collab!)...

Great, cool, yada yada yada... but here is what I really noticed, my paddling form on this board was magical using this paddle ... I was even doing that little hip shift that Robert from Blue Planet talks about in his videos (Stone mentioned it above I think... thanks for reminding me Stone)...  There were some insane offshore gusts and the drive from the big boy really helped.  I think I want to try to use a bit longer of a paddle because the entry is just so smooth, and you really can't paddle past your feet... stoked about the available extension.

I did a FIVE hour session.  My muscles are tired as they should be... especially considering the last hour was in a 10-15 MPH SE wind... but no joint soreness.  I expected joint soreness from pulling on that big blade for five hours...

One more thing, I had two semi-legitimate barrels today, a front-side hang on for your life section and a backside backdoor under the lip paddle drag twisted body lay back barrel.  I had LOADS of control with the paddle on barrel number two.  It was a legit set wave... one of the bigger of the day... a bodysurfer was sitting on my inside, waiting for me to get hung up in the lip, then waiting for me to get pitched, then waiting for me to get pinched... he kept waiting... body surfers as a general rule aren't too stoked on standup... on the paddle back out I thought he was gonna rank on me... instead he said, "That was f***ing sick dude."  Paddle probably did not have much to do with that wave... just wanted to brag.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: VonR on November 12, 2011, 05:12:11 PM
What paddle do you recommend for a smaller guy? This paddle will be for surf use only and with smaller boards. By smaller, I mean 8' and under and 4" thick and less.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 12, 2011, 09:24:30 PM
The wiki. I know 8" sounds small, but it doesn't catch that way. The 8.5 would be OK, but the wiki is so light and quick. I'm looking forward to surfing with it in Maui.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on November 13, 2011, 08:45:02 PM
Took my Wiki out for a paddle in the rain and chop today on my Bullet.  Left the stock length at 82" which is 15" overhead for me.  I wanted to see if the longer reach and stiff shaft would work well with the smaller blade. Because the blade is smaller, I can dig deep into the clean water for a awesome plant.

Paddle is with 100 shaft which is super light and little to no flex.  The sharkskin takes some getting use to.  I was doing alright but I can see how it would stick and grab for those who do a lot of sliding of hands during switch.  The shaft reminds me of the QB Elite shaft but a bit more grip. I loved the smaller diameter shaft.  I switched paddles with a friend who had a QB Kanaha, the Kanaha shaft felt fat and bulky, weird cause this is what I've been using for a couple years.

From the first stroke, the 8" paddle was super quiet upon entry, talk about clean! I was surprised with the amount of catch for such a small and light paddle.  I've used a QB 8.3 Kanaha before, the 8.0 Wiki had more catch.  There didn't feel like a lot of slip and I easily got the Bullet up to speed in less than ideal, choppy conditions. 

There was no flutter whatsoever! Which meant more energy saved for paddling.  Keeping a fast cadence hasn't been this easy before.  After each stroke, I hit the recovery phase and the paddle is snapping back into the water with a quiet and clean entry.  The swing weight is crazy, feels like swinging nothing!

Now I'm curious how the 8.5 would feel.  On much calmer conditions, shorter sprints, or downwind, I'd probably want a slightly bigger blade, but I bet the 8.0 could do it! 

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 14, 2011, 01:39:16 PM
I'm starting to really enjoy the Wiki. I still like the 8.5 best for all around, but the super light swing weight of the Wiki is addictive.

I'm working on some ways to measure the catch. I'm know I can derive the amount of force applied to driving the board forward if I know the acceleration of the board and rider and the weight of board and rider (F=Ma), and the accelerometers on the shaft should show me how much force is applied to the paddle though I won't know the mass of the water being accelerated. I may need to measure paddle force directly, perhaps with a strain gauge on the shaft. Either that or jest get relative numbers for shaft acceleration vs board acceleration.

Another thing to do in Maui.

Any of you Oahu folks that are interested in seeing the paddles, get in touch with Robert Stehlik. We have a few paddles on the way to Blue Planet--shipped today, they will be our dealer on Oahu.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 14, 2011, 01:53:20 PM
Two more days with the Molokai... my upper abs are super sore... in a really good way.  I think that this is from the hip shift as I am pulling my body to the paddle.  I have never had soreness in this area before... Not much arm soreness... more chest, lats and upper ab's... and an interesting soreness in my upper quads... If you remember your paddle poem, you will be rewarded... (triangle, reach, plant, lean, twist, flip, repeat...)... if you don't you will be punished.

Again, my time was so limited and the waves were so fun that I did not switch paddles.  Okay, my time wasn't limited, but I am a selfish surfer... and I was having a blast... so real time comparison to my old surf paddle soon... I will have a few extra days off next week and will give it a go then...

I can say this, though... without hesitation.  Check the "Classified" section in the coming weeks for a good deal on some (former) top of the line, carbon fiber paddles.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on November 14, 2011, 06:31:47 PM
Well this is my second vid of the south side... with Pono Bill's KeNalu blade.  I love it.

Mana Kai November (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW7F6Vt_wVw#ws)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 14, 2011, 06:45:36 PM
Nice video HM.  Thanks for posting... you seriously need to send out demo tapes.  The dry ironic voice is in serious demand these days.  Great narration.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 14, 2011, 07:05:56 PM
I agree--the narration is great.  I love being briefed on what's going on.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on November 14, 2011, 08:12:20 PM
That looks like too much fun.  I need to plan a trip to Maui.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 14, 2011, 08:24:03 PM
Fun video, I like the southside runs, especially when Maliko is handing out serious beatings. Glad you finally got into them Bill, I couldn't drag you there last year.

Gonna have to teach you a stroke, you're shoveling water on the exit. That blade doesn't let you get away with that. You can see how much water you're lifting. You have to pull it out of the water vertically (Tahitian) or drop your upper hand and wing it out (Hawaiian stroke). And it likes to be feathered. On the catch though, you were right on, putting just the right amount of pull effort into that Molokai. The folks that pull hard on that big blade tire out fast. All you need is a little tug to maintain speed. I have some video of a downwinder here in the Columbia with a Molokai that I need to edit. I haven't done anything with it because it looks so silly, like I'm just patting the water, but I was in every swell I went after.

It's really surprising how different these three blades are. The 8" is so totally different from the 8.5"  and the 9" is nothing like the Wiki or Maliko. It will be VERY interesting to see your reaction, especially to the 8".
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: LaPerouseBay on November 14, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Another cool video HM.  Excellent narration.  That was a fun day.

Wind was really cranking early in the run.  We were very lucky to have wind at the end.  An hour after we finished the entire run was flat as a lake.

Your camera angle to the left is the ticket.  It's all about going left on the south (and north) shore.  It's good to see further down the line as your camera did.     
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on November 15, 2011, 05:27:48 AM
Finally got my hands on Bill's new paddle because they have made it down under.. and they look pretty good.. PT is the proud new owner.

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2479Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2482Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2488Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2494Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2515Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 15, 2011, 05:31:36 AM
Nice to see it getting into the right hands.  I especially like the background "art". He's not going to use that paddle for something kinky is he?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on November 15, 2011, 09:06:29 AM
Vertically challenged?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on November 15, 2011, 02:22:22 PM
Nice to see it getting into the right hands.  I especially like the background "art". He's not going to use that paddle for something kinky is he?

Don't you guys have paddle stands like this in the US?..  ;D

And yeah.. That paddle is going to be a little short for PT..  :D

DJ

 (http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2487Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 15, 2011, 04:32:03 PM
Thaaats what we needed, a closeup.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on November 19, 2011, 12:26:46 PM
Some shops in New England coming soon.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPsports on November 19, 2011, 06:07:53 PM
We got'em...come and get'em...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 19, 2011, 06:33:17 PM
I just saw them today at Gorge Performance in Portland.  Great to see in person, and to be able to try the handles, feel the texture and how light they are, etc. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on November 20, 2011, 03:35:57 AM
I now have a Ke Nalu that's a similar size and length to my Kialoa Toro (thanks Bill) so it will be interesting to compare to two paddles.. It was hard for me to tell which was the lighter paddle because they are very close.. I'll get them accurately weighed at my friends machine shop.. But it's how they paddle that matters the most.. Here's a few pictures that show the two side by side.

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2786Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2788Medium.jpg)

 (http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2797Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2813Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2764Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on November 20, 2011, 09:48:59 AM
I just installed and used the extended handle that I received the other day.  This is great; I can now use one paddle for both surfing and racing/touring. The installation of the extended handle did not go well. Then I looked at Bill’s install video on kenalu.com, and it then went very well. The trick is to heat both the glue on the extension, and the shaft it goes into. If you don’t heat the shaft, it only goes in a little way and stops.

Bill, one thing though, what is the length of the extension. Knowing this will help in knowing where to heat the shaft once it is installed.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 20, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Long day.  Fun day  Used old surf and pono paddle.  Never using old surf paddle again. It felt imprecise, heavy, and ...blunt.  The pono paddle really pops out on the flip, grabs, is lighter than light and feels precise.  Sorry for the analysis disguised as gossamer.  It was fun though.  Paddled down to my spot on my 8'3, with the tip of the blade of my old paddle under my toes, shaft forward. Let's say it was a challenge.

Then, after surfing for a few hours, grabbed my Corran downwinders and played in the stiffer than stiff Sw wind for a few hours.  Used my distance paddle for one lap, then the pono paddle for the next lap.  Need to get the extend grip as I just couldn't plant the pono paddle far  enough in front for a true comparison.  My non pono distance paddle is the new QB dimpled one...

A suggestion in cutting your pono paddle... Cut it longer than you think you will want it.  The paddle just slips into the water and with pulling it out at your feet, you want to make sure you are engaging well at the initial part of your stroke.

Not having any muscle fatigue issues, but that is because using the pono paddle really forces you to concentrate on your form.

Out for now.

Tim

More comparison next week after the extended handle arrives.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: paddledaddy on November 21, 2011, 10:55:48 AM
Forgive me for not reading the 9 pages prior to this, but I just want to jump in and say I tried out my new paddle for the first time yesterday. I already own both the QB elite racer and the Kialoa Toro so I was able to compare them side by side in exactly the same lenght. The short answer is that my new favorite race paddle is the KeNalu. I will be selling the other two on the forum here if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on November 21, 2011, 01:17:06 PM
I've had about 3 hours on the water with my new 8 1/2" Ke Nalu Maliko paddle and I reckon it's a sweet, sweet thing. I don't think I have the length dialled yet but it's definitely going to be my paddle of choice for flat water training/distance/racing and high cadence running. Entry and exit are super easy and it tracks dead straight with zero flutter so you don't even have to think about that. Unlike some other reports I reckon I've found it a bit more forgiving than my other paddles (full-carbon Starboard Enduro 550 & an 8"  Bamboo Fanatic). The ergo-T handle comes to hand very nicely and allows for a relaxed grip. The narrow shaft is a nice surprise too, it sits nicely in the hook of my fingers allowing a relaxed lower hand and a bit more reach. Nice flex even with the 100% Carbon shaft. The grippiness and tracking also make it easy to choke down on the paddle Baxter-style for hard charges. I agree with the Leper that running it a bit longer rather than shorter could be the go.

I don't think I'd want to go down to the Wiki (I'm 6'2 & 265) and for now I think I prefer a bit more grunt than the 8 1/2" brings for shoving my 14 footer around when the water's lumpy so I won't be tossing my other paddles just yet (at least until I try the Molokai?  ;) )
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on November 23, 2011, 03:26:43 PM
Not to highjack the thread but my wife and my bags just arrived along with her Wiki paddle and they are beautiful. Nice workmanship, great protection paddingfor 2 different paddles, and many other cool features features.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2011, 06:39:14 AM
Before I get a hundred emails asking where your paddle bag is, we had to wait to get boxes. The folks that are getting their early are those that recently ordered a paddle where we could stick the bag in a paddle box. The small boxes for the bags got here yesterday, but today is Turkey day, so we'll start getting them out tomorrow. Got a LOT of paddle bags to send.

Please be patient, if you bought a paddle before 11/21/2011 then you're on the list and we'll get it off to you.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on November 24, 2011, 07:30:00 AM
Anyone broke one yet?  At his time of year, with surf on the reefs, I'd dread having to prone paddle my Bullet to shore.  I've been using the KeNalu on small surf  days so far and am gaining confidence with it's strength. 

Shirley and I will paddle today and do a small quick meal at home.  No overfull stomach, no extended time in the kitchen, more fun.  It's been raining at night but brilliant days.  Aloha... from Maui.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 24, 2011, 03:30:33 PM
Head,

I got pinched pretty hard a few times with it.  Had it in my hands in a close out shore real... So far so good.

Can't wai for my extended handle so I can try using a longer length.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2011, 04:06:46 PM
Anyone broke one yet?  At his time of year, with surf on the reefs, I'd dread having to prone paddle my Bullet to shore.  I've been using the KeNalu on small surf  days so far and am gaining confidence with it's strength. 

Shirley and I will paddle today and do a small quick meal at home.  No overfull stomach, no extended time in the kitchen, more fun.  It's been raining at night but brilliant days.  Aloha... from Maui.

So far the only folks that have broken one is UPS. It appears they could break the ears off a brass donkey. I've herked on them pretty hard, and run them up to 200# in my press, but I need to take one all the way.

When we get to Maui I plan to give one to Chris and one to Junya and tell them to go bust 'em. Pretty sure they can do it. I've watched Junya break several paddles just stroking for a wave. If they live very long with those guys playing with them then we're all pretty much OK.

Happy Thanksgiving you guys.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on November 24, 2011, 04:21:15 PM
So far the only folks that have broken one is UPS. It appears they could break the ears off a brass donkey. I've herked on them pretty hard, and run them up to 200# in my press, but I need to take one all the way.
If you'd quit treating the UPS guys like that, maybe they'd be more careful with your paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on November 24, 2011, 04:50:30 PM
A few pages back, there was some discussion about the finish and sanding.  After 5 or 6 sessions, I have effectively sanded my finish with my new calluses.  I had to make all new calluses due to the different grip and diameter.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2011, 05:54:41 PM
I've got one report of very sore shoulders and arms from a Wiki, anyone else having problems?

I've had two people say they felt some blade wobble, but in one case it turned out to be holding the paddle too tight. Haven't heard back from the other person.  

The blade want's to track straight--when we pull any of the three blades through a tank with a bungee cord it self-aligns and pulls straight as a string. If you grip it too tight you might be slightly mis-aligning the blade and fighting the self-tracking. Relax and let the paddle do the work.

This article might be helpful: http://www.kenalu.com/2011/11/stand-up-paddles-and-pain/ (http://www.kenalu.com/2011/11/stand-up-paddles-and-pain/)

I'd like to hear about any issues with Ke Nalu paddles. All the kudos and nice comments are really nice, but our aim is to make a great paddle.


Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2011, 06:45:33 PM
So far the only folks that have broken one is UPS. It appears they could break the ears off a brass donkey. I've herked on them pretty hard, and run them up to 200# in my press, but I need to take one all the way.
If you'd quit treating the UPS guys like that, maybe they'd be more careful with your paddles.

Now I have a mental picture of taking a UPS guy all the way--not pretty.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2011, 08:44:45 PM
One more thing occurs to me concerning arm and shoulder pain, though it applies more to the Maliko and Molokai than the Wiki. If you don't get the paddle out early, either by winging it out with a Hawaiian stroke or lifting it with a Tahitian, you're going to be lifting water. It might not feel like a big deal while you're paddling, but it's an unusual load.

We designed these paddles to reward a good stroke. We thought that meant that only intermediate or advanced paddlers would benefit from them, but some of the feedback we're getting from customers tells us that beginners are finding the paddles useful to help force them into a better stroke. I know the feedback you get from goofing off is pretty strong. We'll see how that plays out.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on November 24, 2011, 09:13:26 PM
One more thing occurs to me concerning arm and shoulder pain, though it applies more to the Maliko and Molokai than the Wiki. If you don't get the paddle out early, either by winging it out with a Hawaiian stroke or lifting it with a Tahitian, you're going to be lifting water. It might not feel like a big deal while you're paddling, but it's an unusual load.

We designed these paddles to reward a good stroke. We thought that meant that only intermediate or advanced paddlers would benefit from them, but some of the feedback we're getting from customers tells us that beginners are finding the paddles useful to help force them into a better stroke. I know the feedback you get from goofing off is pretty strong. We'll see how that plays out.

Interesting.

I have a Maliko (thanks JC!) and experienced a little shoulder pain after my first session with it. I had a reco on that shoulder a couple of years ago and the AC joint has been somewhat modified. I assumed what I was feeling was because I had it cut too long (which might be the case anyway) but I haven't spent enough time on the water with it to be sure.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 24, 2011, 09:36:47 PM
You may do this in the videos on paddle length, but I don't recall it.  I would advise folks to use the paddle a few inches longer than they are used to before cutting the paddle down to their usual length.  I cut mine to the length of my surf paddle (that I have used for a long time) and find that it slips into the water so nicely on the extension and plant, that another two inches would probably allow me a demonstrably more powerful stroke without increasing fatigue... Or maybe don't tell em and then Try and sell them the extension...  :)

Had the Molokai out with the push plus today... And the enigma... Really concentrating on using the lower arm as a lever right after engagement (which forces me to remove the paddle sooner and forces a quicker stroke)... It did not noticeably over power the push plus... I think my body is getting used to the extra ponies and I am weight shifting better... Now i have to to go back and try the Molokai again with the super small SUP the collab...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 25, 2011, 08:13:44 AM
One more thing, the ergo handle I LOVE.  I lent the paddle to a friend today... And besides him complaining about the blade size,  ;D, he thought that the ergo handle was way too big for his hands... I have pretty big hands so it fits me perfectly... Maybe just some info on the site that the ergo handle is pretty beefy (again, that may be on the site and I missed it)

I am not very gentle on my stuff. The paddle still looks great. AND I love how the wax fills in the texture on the shaft... Just the right grip.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on November 25, 2011, 08:44:06 AM
One more thing, the ergo handle I LOVE.  I lent the paddle to a friend today... And besides him complaining about the blade size,  ;D, he thought that the ergo handle was way too big for his hands... I have pretty big hands so it fits me perfectly... Maybe just some info on the site that the ergo handle is pretty beefy (again, that may be on the site and I missed it)

I am not very gentle on my stuff. The paddle still looks great. AND I love how the wax fills in the texture on the shaft... Just the right grip.

Tim

I think that the ergo handle is described as "for bigger hands" or something like that on the site.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 26, 2011, 05:09:16 PM
I had a few attempted phone calls over the last few days that looked like they might be paddle related. My long suffering iPhone finally rolled snakeyes--I could see calls coming in but the touchscreen is dead. So if you were or are trying to get hold of me, email is better until I get to Maui and have a new phone delivered--so I can start beating the crap out of that one.

Bill at kenalu dot com works best.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 26, 2011, 06:42:09 PM
The ke Nalu paddle in action... My buddy Brian showed up towards the end of the morning shift and snapped some pic's.  My legs were SHOT (hour four)... Conditions were tough... Short perid swell with a pinch, and then no shoulder...But some fun little waves with the Molokai!

http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/h3bdc8b3f#h3bdc8b3f (http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/h3bdc8b3f#h3bdc8b3f)

http://www.pixareus.com/p519062474/h34307479#h34307479 (http://www.pixareus.com/p519062474/h34307479#h34307479)

Loving this paddle!



Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soulpaddler on November 26, 2011, 06:58:31 PM
Holy cow, Strand!!!!!!  Boardies and no top in November?  I always knew you were CORE!!!! ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 26, 2011, 08:19:42 PM
Nice shots. Don't you just love how that blade just slides like butter on the face.

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/butter.jpg)

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/butter2.jpg)

Looking pretty ripped there dude.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 26, 2011, 08:42:06 PM
Bill,

Yes, yes I do...

As far as the "ripped" part goes... It's the Molokai!  Another selling point...

Soul,

The sun was out... The water was blue, if a little cold... And the proners were rubbered from tip to toe... Plus, I was working pretty hard... Gotta admit that I had my spring on until about 8... The changed into my trunks... Those are my special camo trunks.  They make me invisible!

Loving the paddle... Doing a distance run tomorrow as the small,swell of today is dropping...

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AGK on November 27, 2011, 07:49:24 AM
A quick report from another happy KeNalu paddle user.  After a couple of years of using a Werner Nitro (3-piece version) I now have about a dozen days on the medium-sized KeNalu.

The only objective data I have is that I have recorded the 2 fastest (non-wind-aided) runs ever on a 7/10 mile sprint near my house out of about 50 runs over a couple of years  -- 3-6% faster than the previous record. 

More importantly, subjectively the paddle is just more fun and seems to encourage more energetic paddling.  The light weight is great and I like the small diameter.  People have written about how clean the catch is, and while I don’t claim to understand the science behind it I can confirm this.  I tried the Werner the other day in small surf, and it seemed to really stick on the catch (like the water was much denser) compared to the KeNalu.

I have no regrets about the purchase – if anything happened to this one, I would buy another. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 27, 2011, 08:02:58 AM
That's really nice, thanks. I don't recognize your handle or your initials--who are you?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on November 27, 2011, 09:09:22 AM
The ke Nalu paddle in action... My buddy Brian showed up towards the end of the morning shift and snapped some pic's.  My legs were SHOT (hour four)... Conditions were tough... Short perid swell with a pinch, and then no shoulder...But some fun little waves with the Molokai!

http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/h3bdc8b3f#h3bdc8b3f (http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/h3bdc8b3f#h3bdc8b3f)

http://www.pixareus.com/p519062474/h34307479#h34307479 (http://www.pixareus.com/p519062474/h34307479#h34307479)

Loving this paddle!





 Forget the paddle; Nice surfin Tim!!!   Paddle on (with soul),      JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 27, 2011, 09:24:14 AM
It is indeed. Made me just a bit nuttier about getting ready to leave for Maui.  four days and a wakeup.

And then there's this wave forecast for Ho'okipa:

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/waves.jpg)

Yipee
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Bulky on November 27, 2011, 09:31:06 AM
Great pics, Tim!  Looks like you guys got the swell minus the mess. Really rough up here...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AGK on November 27, 2011, 03:29:56 PM
That's really nice, thanks. I don't recognize your handle or your initials--who are you?

Hey Bill -- The review from AGK is from Andy Keeler (me) - I was an early buyer from the KeNalu website.  Just got back from surfing in small surf with the paddle in Nags Head -- the acceleration is noticeably better!  Thanks again for a great paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 27, 2011, 03:52:31 PM
Ah yes, I was just looking at your name. We're getting the bags ready to send. Red, white or blue Andy?

Glad you like the paddle. You were actually the very first online order, Tom was the first person to buy one.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 1medic on November 27, 2011, 04:07:16 PM
Hey I thought I was the 1st! Just kidding.
Bill,  I'm not going to baffle you with bull shit. I first bought a Molokai and was blown away by the performance. I have recently purchased a Maliko and again was blown away. I use them for both distance and surf paddling. I've found performance improvements in every area with your paddles. I have used Kialoa, QuickBlade, Riveria and Werner paddles. All of them are now for sale. Oh, and the paddle bags, great job! Anyone considering a Ke Nalu paddle just pull the trigger. You won't regret it.
Brian Winterhalder
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on November 27, 2011, 06:34:50 PM
Bulky and JD,

Seriously, it is the paddle!  ;)

A fun clean little swell... Unfortunately, I wasn't "on" the entire swell... Had fun, got some really good waves... Just wasn't feeling it...

Train hard this week... Yoga... AND my Maliko comes this week!

Nice paddle Bill.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: gorgebob on November 28, 2011, 08:37:10 AM
Paddled yesterday after shortening the KeNalu two inches. Still an inch longer than my Shakapu. Changing handle was a snap, except for setting off my smoke alarms. Narrower shaft is sweet with gloves . I use Burton liners just enough to keep the chill off. I also ran my heated vest for the first time and thats the ticket. The elements are right in the small of the back, perfect for the back muscles.  The paddle is light which allowed the cadence to increase in tempo. Feathering windage is less on the shaft than the Kialoa. So far so good.
 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on November 28, 2011, 01:16:28 PM
Yesterday five of us paddled down through Pambula Lake and down Pambula river to the Pambula river mouth..

Four Kialoa's and one Ke Nalu.. We swapped around.. Here's a few pictures.. What a great day down-under.

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP3743Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP3753Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP3798Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP3797Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on November 28, 2011, 09:18:54 PM
Attached is a side by side comparison of the Kialoa Methane vs. Kenalu Maliko.

Theoretically they have the same paddle area, but upon direct inspection the Maliko is slightly smaller (visually) than the Methane overall.  But, the paddle width is lower on the Maliko than the more teardrop shaped Methane.   

You can see the Maliko is 60 grams less than the Methane.  The Maliko was also cut 5 inches LONGER (79") than this Methane (74") and I purchased the Extended Handle, to provide added adjustment, but probably added another 20 grams to the Maliko.

I compared the shaft only weights of the Methane (7” cut off 2 years ago) and Maliko (cut recently) and found that the Methane weighed 4.53 grams per inch whereas the Maliko was 3.53 grams per inch each with the exact same outside diameter.  This suggests less material in the Maliko.  Hopefully just enough.  Anything more than breaking strength is ultimately a waste of mass.

I only have 2 sessions on the paddle but can report that I lent it to a friend (who handed me his Kialoa Methane).  He immediately recognized the lower weight and the "larger paddle area."  This was not technically correct but whatever the reason (Bill?) it just grabs better.   The Methane, with reflective tape and paddle guard felt like a dog.

For now I am using a paddle that is 5” longer than what I was formerly used to.  11” overhead for 100% surf.  It seems to work.  Whatever the physics a 12% reduction in swing weight is enormous.  When baseball players swing for the fences they take the weight off.  I suggest you do the same and put your energy into the surf rather than swinging the club like a caveman. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on November 28, 2011, 11:13:27 PM
" The Methane, with reflective tape and paddle guard felt like a dog."

That paddle guard does have that effect..  ;D

DJ
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 29, 2011, 07:58:53 AM
DJ is absolutely tight. Paddle guard is not a great idea. I haven't quantified the effect yet, but I sure can see it, both on video and in the data from my Paddle Pod (what a goofy name, but it is shorter than typing "paddle mounted vibration, acceleration and position data recording device--or would be if I didn't feel compelled to explain it").

Seeing edge tape on you folk's Ke Nalu paddles gives me the willies. The difference is probably too small to detect by feel, but I've become a complete geek about this stuff.

Anyway, the bigger catch on the Ke Nalu blade comes mostly from the blade angle and the face curves, though a little bit comes from the very slight "wing" of the paddle back. Some people will not feel it--generally because of differences in their stroke. For some people it's almost too much. Its a dynamic characteristic, that depends on how you set the blade at the catch and how you pull it through the water. People who push downwards with their upper hand will feel it most, people who pull the blade straight back will feel it least.

As far as shaft weight goes, we use a different process than the Kialoa. I suspect we have about the same amount of carbon. Personally I really like the oval Kialoa shafts, but we determined that we could build a lighter shaft given the available equipment if it was tapered and round. I don't know how Dave makes his shafts as light as he does, they have to be a bitch to make.

Nice post Beasho, thanks for taking the time. And remarkable pictures DJ, though I've said that so many times through the years it seems almost to go without saying. How you manage to make every shot engaging is simply beyond me. That third shot with the little girl on the end of the board with her boogie board tied to the back of the Starboard is simply amazing. How did you get her hair just right? Wind machine?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on November 29, 2011, 09:07:07 AM
Oops, I meant DJ is absolutely right, though I won't assume he isn't tight as well.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on November 30, 2011, 11:04:14 AM
She's the only one with hair
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on December 01, 2011, 09:55:34 AM
The Maliko arrived this week... Along with the adjustable handle.  Gonna run the Maliko ridiculously tall on some distance paddling this weekend and compare it with the Molokai at the same length.  Will report back next week.  Hate these late sunrises and early sunsets... Absolutely slaughtering the water time.

Probably gonna reserve the Wiki for ridiculously long slogs... Haven't broken it out just yet...

Got a new bigger fin for Candi... Chazz is raring to go... Time... Time is what I need now...
Title: Maliko Report
Post by: Beasho on December 01, 2011, 12:32:23 PM
It was whipping today in California.  One source suggested 50 mph, another 30 gusting to 40.  Decided to go for a test surf.  Buoy was 10 @ 13.  It was still surfable but half the time we were on our knees to lower our profile, two of us each with Maliko in hand.  

I am happy to report no ill effects despite 50% hurricane force winds and macking offshore chop.  I am still running my Maliko 11" overhead.  Feathering the blade in the wind and experimenting with a Connor style power move when necessary.  We had our boards lift off under our feet a few times but the light and long Maliko was holding its own in nuking winds and chop.
Title: Re: Maliko Report
Post by: stoneaxe on December 01, 2011, 06:41:04 PM
It was whipping today in California.  One source suggested 50 mph, another 30 gusting to 40.  Decided to go for a test surf.  Buoy was 10 @ 13.  It was still surfable but half the time we were on our knees to lower our profile, two of us each with Maliko in hand.  

I am happy to report no ill effects despite 50% hurricane force winds and macking offshore chop.  I am still running my Maliko 11" overhead.  Feathering the blade in the wind and experimenting with a Connor style power move when necessary.  We had our boards lift off under our feet a few times but the light and long Maliko was holding its own in nuking winds and chop.

Props...10@13 and 50 mph....sounds like my kind of workout... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 01, 2011, 09:25:22 PM
Going to pick up my WIKI later today at the DHL office on the mainland!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I'll be back!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on December 02, 2011, 02:24:06 AM

I don't think I'd want to go down to the Wiki (I'm 6'2 & 265) and for now I think I prefer a bit more grunt than the 8 1/2"

I might have to take that back, I had a brief flatwater fling with a borrowed Wiki this morning - once I figured out to back off the pull and up the cadence, the little paddle was BIG FUN!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 02, 2011, 06:38:46 AM
Going to pick up my WIKI later today at the DHL office on the mainland!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I'll be back!

Henrik F

I've now collected but not assembled my WIKI. But it has been a long and winding way to get the paddle to Sweden. With help from Bill and some friends the paddle arrived at last.
Shipping, taxes, some fee's from some sort of address hotel in USA it all ended up in $488. No more expensive than an imported QB or just about $75 more than a carbon Naish bought in Sweden.

I'll be back with my review!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jt737 on December 02, 2011, 06:53:34 PM
Review I posted on our local site: http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Ke-Nalu-paddles/ (http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Ke-Nalu-paddles/)
I have all three paddles but love the 8.5 Maliko the best, am just back from a quick downwinder and had no soreness or aches. The paddle just catches so well, and is well balanced.
I used to train by trying to achieve no noise, but the Ke Nalu just does it by itself.
A little tip, before assembling the extended T Handle I cut an inch piece of bicycle inner tube off, and use that to cover the gap height between the shaft and handle shaft to neaten up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 03, 2011, 06:57:33 AM
Going to pick up my WIKI later today at the DHL office on the mainland!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I'll be back!

Henrik F

I've now collected but not assembled my WIKI. But it has been a long and winding way to get the paddle to Sweden. With help from Bill and some friends the paddle arrived at last.
Shipping, taxes, some fee's from some sort of address hotel in USA it all ended up in $488. No more expensive than an imported QB or just about $75 more than a carbon Naish bought in Sweden.

I'll be back with my review!

Henrik F

I'm just glad after all that it got there undamaged. I assume there's no damage, we're now shipping the paddles with the blades off the shafts--you mount them the same way you put on the handle--heat gun or hairdryer.

Which reminds me, I tried to use a hairdryer here at Ponohouse that is just too fancy. The cheap little portable one I used that would probably set your hair on fire worked fine, and so did one in a hotel, but this one doesn't get hot enough. Has anyone else had a problem?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: iopsailor on December 03, 2011, 07:20:27 AM
'No, I put mine together yesterday with my wife's backup dryer, which I assume she replaced with a better one.  I really like the simplicity of using hot glue.  No failures or strength issues?  Is that off-the-shelf hot glue or some special weapons grade glue?
     I kept the shaft at full length -I'm 5'9  - and went out in the ICW yesterday and it seemed fine.  Felt like I  struck the board a whole lot less, maybe light weight = less fatigue = cleaner stroke.  I'll be heading for what we call waves here in South Carolina later today, shaft still uncut.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on December 03, 2011, 08:58:48 AM
Bill I have noticed the same thing. I now found the optimal hair dryer to use from my wires quiver. Love being to make adustments in the length of the paddle to get it dialed in. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 03, 2011, 09:57:36 AM
Yeah, I think if the dryer won't turn your hair to straw it's probably not the right one. As Diane says, the bad new is that your wife's good hair dryer won't work, the good news is she won't be grumpy if you take the emergency backup ten buck one.

So far we've only had one person have a problem, he had a handle twist. Before we could connect he put some epoxy on it. Ugh. Not a great idea. Probably didn't get the glue hot enough to have a real bond. Then again he has a Molokai and said it doesn't have quite enough catch for him. I'm thinking this has got to be one powerful dude.

The glue we use is an industrial version of hot glue, there are actually quite a few different "hot glues" with varied characteristics. Our glue is pretty strong and has a fairly long "open" time. It comes in little chunks instead of sticks, it's made for using a glue pot. But I have used hobby stuff straight from a hot glue gun to supplement it when I was away from the shop and fiddling with lengths. Any of you using the extended handle and changing length often have now realized you can reheat and reposition a lot of times before the glue starts looking a little thin. When that happens all I do is retape the shaft to keep excess glue off, run a bead or two of hot glue around the base of the ferrule, heat the whole thing up and put it back together. I probably add a little glue after twenty or so repositions.

Those of you with extended handles are not worried about the handle coming apart--the toughest thing about the extended handle is getting the shaft evenly warm and warm enough to budge the handle. It takes patience and a hot hair dryer.

If you cut your shaft more than the length of the ferrule on a standard handle you'll be eliminating all the glue on the inside of the ferrule and you'd be well off to add a bead before reassembling. I've done it both ways. It works without doing any extra glue, but it doesn't seem like it should, so I usually go back and add some.

I have used the bottom of an empty aluminum pop can as an impromptu glue pot when I didn't have a glue gun handly. Warm the can bottom up with your heat gun, put a chunk of glue stick in the recess--when it's hot the glue stick won't blow off with the heat gun. Play the heat gun on the glue until it's melted and runny. Use a stick or a hacksaw blade to spread the glue. Proceed as normal. Works great. The ten paddles I had at the battle of the paddle were assembled that way.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 03, 2011, 11:45:20 AM
Hello!
Used a heat gun (not sure of the proper name of the thing but it is warmer than a hair dryer) and it worked fine with the glue.

Unfortunately we have 40-45 knots SW, heavy rain and 2-3°C here. Not very tempting weather for a test ride.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on December 03, 2011, 02:49:14 PM
My Sienna surf mobile has a full on outlet in the back. Right now there is a cheap hair dryer plugged in. Not because of the hair!  (well...)

Btw had the Molokai out with my collab micro mini. Was in a full suit with water slightly above the ankles... Thus, my slightly too short molokai was the perfect paddle length.  Another reason to be stoked about the adjustable handle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 04, 2011, 01:46:19 AM
Going to pick up my WIKI later today at the DHL office on the mainland!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I'll be back!

Henrik F

I've now collected but not assembled my WIKI. But it has been a long and winding way to get the paddle to Sweden. With help from Bill and some friends the paddle arrived at last.
Shipping, taxes, some fee's from some sort of address hotel in USA it all ended up in $488. No more expensive than an imported QB or just about $75 more than a carbon Naish bought in Sweden.

I'll be back with my review!

Henrik F

I'm just glad after all that it got there undamaged. I assume there's no damage, we're now shipping the paddles with the blades off the shafts--you mount them the same way you put on the handle--heat gun or hairdryer.


No damage at all! It was shipped with the blade in place but in the excellent paddlebag. The box had almost no scratches or marks and maybe the bag was a very good protector for the blade and shaft.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on December 04, 2011, 06:22:11 PM
I installed the handle in 3 paddles. The other day after a session of testing in the cold I brought the paddles into the house. As they warmed up I noticed some bubbles forming at the handle joint of one of them. I heated it up, pulled the handle and noticed a spot that was light on glue. I made sure the inside was dry. Warmed the shaft with the blow dryer and let it sit, then wiped the end out with a paper towel. I reheated everything, pushed it back in and this time made sure to give it a twist after it was seated. Have had it out twice since and no problems. Awesome how simple it is.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on December 04, 2011, 11:06:53 PM
PT won his class in The Starboard Great Melbourne Paddle Race yesterday.. He used the small size blade.

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP4088Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP4208Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JonathanC on December 05, 2011, 01:19:51 PM
My Sienna surf mobile has a full on outlet in the back. Right now there is a cheap hair dryer plugged in. Not because of the hair!  (well...)

Tim, you are stylin here, man you could step off that little board and anchor the news with that hair ;D
http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/e237b92a7 (http://www.pixareus.com/p411510335/e237b92a7)
Tried to link/embed the photo but couldn't get it to work......
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: levity on December 05, 2011, 02:47:47 PM
Ke Nalu “on the podium” again!

‘zoner JillRide45 paddled with her Ke Nalu Wiki to 2nd place in the women’s 14’ class at the Becky Stuart Memorial Race in Oceanside this weekend.  A windy day not so suited to a light rider on 14’ board, but the Wiki did its job.

(http://levity.smugmug.com/SUP/Miscellaneous/i-t4SvZ87/1/L/JillOceanside-L.jpg)

Jill 2nd, Suzy Strazulla 1st, Ruthie Vessler 3rd is not shown.  (Bill – maybe you should invert the logo so folks can read it when it’s held this way  :D)  Lotsa of interest in the paddle. Folks were impressed at how light it was (14.7 oz., at 76”) and liked the one-way sharkskin like shaft.

new hardware for the mantle:

(http://levity.smugmug.com/SUP/Miscellaneous/i-nND2TNs/0/L/IMG0145-L.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: joelcr on December 05, 2011, 03:34:27 PM
So I got my new Wiki and am just waiting for the extended handle for the install. Then I was thinking about how you could make a break-down paddle using the same hot glue system. Using a slip fitting halfway up the shaft, you could have a 2 piece paddle that would make air travel a lot easier. That way even if I didn't bring my board on a trip, I could always have my paddle. Also would help with an inflatable travel board. What do you think Bill?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 05, 2011, 09:43:59 PM
We are working on just that. If we cut the shaft in half with a tapered ferrule so there's no shake, epoxy the fat end in and hot glue the other. Then you take off the blade (with your hair dryer) and take the shaft apart you have a 33" package.

Of course we could also do it with spring clips, but I hate the little wiggle that allows, and you have to build the shafts a bit beefier to make up for the weak joint. with a tapered ferrule to make a tight fit and hot glue to bind it we'd be darned close to one-piece weight and performance.

So yeah, we're with you one this one. Coming soon to a website near you.

Oh, and did we mention you can retrofit an existing Ke Nalu paddle as a three piece? Or as an adjustable? We're coming out with a collar that glues onto any Ke Nalu paddle to make it adjustable with an FCS fin wrench. Weighs about ten grams. Very trick.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on December 06, 2011, 05:19:51 AM
Forgive me if I missed this somewhere, but can someone provide the phonetic pronunciation of Ke Nalu
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 06, 2011, 08:43:13 AM
Ke (Hawaiian for "the") pronounced like kay but short with no emphasis on the ay, and Nalu (Hawaiian for wave or surf as a noun) is Nahloo
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: dpmaui on December 07, 2011, 01:13:36 PM
Bill let me demo one of his paddles this morning, he went out at Kanaha, which was just wind-blown slop, I think he thought I was going out there too, sorry Bill, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I went over to Lahaina and tried it out in some glassy double-over ankle Launiopoko. It was really lite and paddled nice, didn't get much chance to lean on it, but it felt good. I'd like to try it in some real surf. Bill, if you need it back, I got it here at the shop, Mahalo, Dave.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 07, 2011, 06:24:25 PM
No rush, I know where you live--or at lest work. I did realize though that I gave you the wrong one to try--that one has a 60Flex shaft--OK for surfing, but not as light or as powerful as the 100Flex.

It wasn't really that bad, there were  few head high sets, and I need the exercise. I got a few nice rides, then went and paddled the Penetrator for a couple of laps around the harbor. Damn that board is a trip, but so difficult in the side chop.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 10, 2011, 07:33:04 AM
Fabulous Heat Gun
I love the Ace hardware store in Kahalui, Maui--they have EVERYTHING and everyone that works there knows exactly where anything is. How did they do that? Even Diane loves it for their home section. They have particular pans that she has been looking for everywhere. That seems odd, she's kind of a high-end gal, but she's always willing to go with me to the hardware store. Always walks out with an armload of stuff--and she's NOT a shopper.

Anyway, I digress, Ace has a fabulous heat gun, cheap (about 30 bucks). It has "digital" temperature adjustments that are very accurate. I was able to set mine up so it heats the ferrules and shaft to a perfect temperature for gluing. If you're looking for one, this is the one to get.

The only challenge might be if you take your wife along and you happen to live in Maui. Your 30 buck heat gun might cost you a few hundred.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on December 11, 2011, 08:36:46 PM
I'm going to try one of these. Handy to have in the car.
http://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPSC-818-Defroster-Folding-Handle/dp/B000BHQ5JC (http://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPSC-818-Defroster-Folding-Handle/dp/B000BHQ5JC)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on December 11, 2011, 11:41:08 PM
I now have a Ke Nalu that's a similar size and length to my Kialoa Toro (thanks Bill) so it will be interesting to compare to two paddles.. It was hard for me to tell which was the lighter paddle because they are very close.. I'll get them accurately weighed at my friends machine shop.. But it's how they paddle that matters the most.. Here's a few pictures that show the two side by side.

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2786Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2788Medium.jpg)

 (http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2797Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2813Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP2764Medium.jpg)

I finally got to weigh the Toro vs the Ke Nalu with some accurate scales..

A few of us tried to tell which was the lightest but couldn't because they were so close.. They are both super light.

I had a feeling that Bill's was a smidge lighter.. and I was right.. It's exactly 20 grams lighter which is less than half a small cup of coffee (the coffee, not the cup) ..  ;D

Now I have the paddles about the same length it's time to test it on the water.

DJ
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 16, 2011, 10:38:52 PM
We just got our new shipment of paddles in, we're back in stock for everything.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: weldernot on December 17, 2011, 08:18:11 AM
Here is my Ke Nalu paddle review.

Ke Nalu Maliko 8.5” x 16” blade with 95 square inch surface area, listed as 494g, 83.5”, 100 flex carbon shaft
Paddler:  5’4” 140lb, experienced whitewater kayaker, some whitewater canoeing, 1 year SUP flat water and some park and play whitewater SUP
Primary SUP:  C4 subvector 9’3” iSUP
Primary comparison paddle:  Werner Carve, 7.3” x 19” blade with 101 square inch surface area, listed at 866g, 74-78” adjustable (set at 78” during comparison paddling)
Comparison locations and conditions:  flat water small lake and indoor pool

Paddle handles:  I haven’t developed a handle preference for either the Ke Nalu ergo-T or the Werner Carve.  They are definitely different feels, and I like them both.  Both feel very comfortable, and both give good tactile feedback and control over paddle orientation.
Paddle shaft texture:  I really, really like the Ke Nalu slightly textured shaft.  I don’t find the texture directly noticeable, but yet my shaft hand doesn’t slip when the Ke Nalu shaft is either wet or dry.  I have noticed some hand slipping with the Werner Carve shaft, especially when wet.  Additionally, while I like the simplicity and ease of use of the length adjustment system on the Werner Carve, I very much dislike the feel when my hand “catches” or rubs over the holes in the paddle shaft that are present as part of the length adjustment.  I have used paddle wax and tape for obtaining a better grip on my whitewater kayak paddle shaft (bent shaft Werner Double Diamond), and I much prefer the texture on the Ke Nalu.  I tend to get friction blisters from tape and find that wax wears off quicker than I like (plus you must then remember it and reapply it for your next paddling).

Paddle shaft diameter:  The smaller Ke Nalu shaft diameter feels fine to me and so does the larger diameter Werner shaft.  I haven’t noticed any feeling of gripping either shaft more tightly or of either shaft feeling too large or too small.
Paddle lengths:  I’m really glad Pono Bill has the paddle lengths write up on the Ke Nalu website.  I haven’t yet cut my Ke Nalu down, and I believe it is currently a bit longer than I will eventually want for flat water paddling.  However, after reading about different methods of deciding on the appropriate paddle length and paddling with the uncut Ke Nalu, I have definitely decided that the 8-10 inches over paddler height isn’t right for me for flat water paddling.  I have gone from using my Werner Carve set at 74” to using it maximally extended (78”) and wishing that I could try it a bit longer (for flat water).  I have found that some of the difficulty I had experienced regarding getting a clean catch (lack of splash, fully immersed blade) with the Carve was fixed by going to a longer length setting.

Paddling forward catch:  I feel like I’m getting a cleaner (less splash, fully immersed blade) catch with the Ke Nalu paddle much more easily than I achieve with the Werner Carve.  The blade shapes, especially the blade heights, are different, and the paddles are not the same length:  Ke Nalu currently 83.5” and Carve currently 78”. 

Paddling forward acceleration:  I often feel like I’m pulling more aggressively or exerting more force with the Carve.  I can’t tell if there is any difference in board acceleration per stroke or in ease of maintaining board speed.

Paddling forward recovery:  I find an increased paddle length a bit trickier to get cleanly removed from the water and find that I’m allowing each paddle to get past my feet.  Part of this may simply be that all of my prior paddling was with the Werner Carve adjusted to 74”.

Bracing, sculling braces and sculling draws, and in water recoveries:  The Ke Nalu slices so very smoothly through the water and feels much better (quieter, easier motion, less turbulence generation) to me than the Carve when doing any paddle moving across the surface in a sculling brace, any sculling draws, and any in water recoveries (slicing the blade from the end of force application of one stroke to the beginning of force application of another stroke).  While messing about doing pivot turns in the pool, I experienced one back side brace with the Ke Nalu paddle that kept me on the board when I am quite sure that I would have been in the water if it had been the Carve in my hands.  This could simply be the difference in length (lever arm), but I don’t think so.  I think the blade shape and smoothness on the water played a major role.

Swing weight:  Holding both paddles, I could tell that the Ke Nalu was lighter than the Carve, but not so much that it made much difference when just holding them.  As reported by others and as expected from my other experiences in paddling with altering swing weight, switching from the Ke Nalu back to the Carve felt like going from a paddle to a club – very unpleasantly heavy  pretty strong desire to only paddle with the Ke Nalu.

Overall:  I am a big fan light paddles and of light swing weights for paddles.  The Ke Nalu is light and has a light swing weight, and I really like that.  I also really like the Ke Nalu shaft texture and the smoothness of the blade when slicing through the water or bracing.  I definitely prefer using the Ke Nalu rather than the Carve for flat water paddling.  The hot glue is very easy to deal with, and I plan to cut my Ke Nalu down a bit in the future and to start messing with the adjustable length extended ergo-T handle.

Video information:  The lake clips were taken on two different days.  The clips taken from the same location on the SUP were taken on the same day and same paddling outing.  The pool clips were taken on a different day from the lake clips. 

Video shot above water Ke Nalu 8.5 and Werner Carve stand up paddles (http://vimeo.com/33812734)
Video shot underwater Ke Nalu 8.5 and Werner Carve stand up paddles underwater (http://vimeo.com/33384286)

(I'm new to any sort of video posting and haven't yet figured out how to embed the videos in here.  I tried following the embed, copy, paste directions on vimeo but apparently missed something; so, rather than delay posting this, I've just gone ahead with providing the video information above.  The tags on each video are "Ke Nalu, Werner Carve, stand up paddles.")
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 17, 2011, 08:50:49 AM
Wow, great review, and great videos, thank you so much. I made a bit of a fool of myself though. When I saw your Ke Nalu paddle wobbling some I kept saying "relax your lower hand! Relax your lower hand!" and Diane said "you do know you're yelling at a computer, don't you". At about 1:30 I could see your hand relax in the track of the paddle and I said "yea!"

It's very interesting that the vortex on both paddles is closing to a ring. That means it's losing connection to the air so it doesn't grow. I'm fairly certain that the big, complex vortices I see on some paddles is because they generate a wide enough vortex that it keeps drawing air down throughout the stroke. I think that closed vortex is a good thing, though it will take a lot more experimenting to be sure. One of the challenges I'm encountering with adding more wing to the back of our paddle is that the vortex gets unstable and more powerful. More fiddling is required.

Very cool seeing no splash during reach/catch on your first video. A very helpful review, thanks again.

PS, I think you'd find Dave Kalama's posting on recovery ( http://www.davidkalama.com/2010/04/paddle-techniques-recover/ (http://www.davidkalama.com/2010/04/paddle-techniques-recover/) ) to be very useful with longer shaft lengths. The big trick is pushing the paddle up with your lower hand as you break your wrist inward. That feathers the blade for clean withdrawal and puts you in position to punch forward with your lower hand for the reach. The unfeathering is automatic since your wrist straightens at the end of the punch. Oh, and relax that lower hand!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on December 17, 2011, 11:59:24 AM
Wow, great review, and great videos, thank you so much. I made a bit of a fool of myself though. When I saw your Ke Nalu paddle wobbling some I kept saying "relax your lower hand! Relax your lower hand!" and Diane said "you do know you're yelling at a computer, don't you". At about 1:30 I could see your hand relax in the track of the paddle and I said "yea!"

I'm busting up laughing about you yelling at the computer.  That's hilarious.  Bill, I thought the same thing when I saw the 2nd video, it shows an initial wobble.  Then I saw that it's 19.5" overhead :o and realized any paddle would wobble in the initial part of the stroke.  You can see after the initial stroke, the rest is smooth.  That explains why the werner wasn't doing it because he has it at 78" as opposed to the 83.5".  Way too long as he already noticed.

Anyways, Thanks for the review and the time spent in doing it.  You can tell by the 1st video that his speed is up quicker than the werner.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on December 17, 2011, 12:44:31 PM
Some bikini girls swimming around under water would have been nice..  ;D

DJ
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 1paddle2paddle on December 17, 2011, 01:13:41 PM
DJ, you were taken with that upside down male torso with legs in the video?

That underwater video was weird, kind of like a bad trip or something (the sounds in the beginning of the video just added to that vibe).  I did enjoy the air bubble rings created by the paddle.  I think if it were studied enough that perspective could offer lots of information on how everything ties together with the paddle stroke.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on December 17, 2011, 01:50:43 PM
Weldernot...quick question.

Is it me, or is your deck flexing under your feet in the video? I cannot tell if it is just an illusion, or if your deckpad/deck look like they are mushy under your feet.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on December 17, 2011, 02:06:35 PM
Any one that has watched the full 9 minutes of the underwater video is a 100% SUP geek. If you've watched it more than one, you need some serious help.  ;) ;D ;)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: weldernot on December 17, 2011, 03:51:47 PM
SUPerstitious,
Yes, the deck is flexing.  It's the C4 subvector 9'3" inflatable SUP.  I leave it inflated all the time, and since I have it in a nice warm pool twice weekly during the fall and winter, I don't worry about making sure it is up to 15 psi at the lake (I'm in Iowa, so the lake temperature was pretty cool when I shot the videos).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 17, 2011, 03:57:56 PM
What if you watched it fifteen or so times, made six pages of notes and then unpacked all your camera gear and data capture stuff?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soulpaddler on December 17, 2011, 04:50:00 PM
Bill, we would expect nothing less of you. ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 17, 2011, 05:17:56 PM
Yeah, total geek.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DavidJohn on December 18, 2011, 04:58:09 PM
What type of paddle does Santa use?

DJ

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP4276Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP4306Medium.jpg)

(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/IMGP4305Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soulpaddler on December 18, 2011, 05:08:41 PM
Nothing but the best for old St. Nick. ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 20, 2011, 12:57:22 PM
Wow, that is so cool.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 21, 2011, 10:15:41 PM
I've been quietly testing the new Ke Nalu xTuf paddles this week. These are identical to the standard Ke Nalu paddles, which we are now calling "Elite" but the shafts are made from unidirectional carbon fiber instead of 3K woven twill, the blades are gelcoated fiberglass and the retail price will be $295.

The net result is paddles that perform like the Ke Nalu elite blades, but weigh about 100 to 150 grams more. They take a beating a little better since fiberglass is "tougher" than carbon fiber. That's an imprecise use of the term, but it gets the idea across--carbon fiber is stronger, but it's generally more brittle. Fiberglass is weaker but takes a whack better.

Performance in the water is identical. All the parts--handle, shaft and blade--can interchange with the Elite Ke Nalu. You can order the paddle with any of the handle options, including the Extended Ergo-T (a $50 option).

My impression--I like 'em. They feel like Elite Ke Nalus except for the weight. The flex of the shaft is different too--we haven't rated them yet, but just flexing them by hand with a 100Flex, a 90Flex and a 60Flex Elite paddle I'd say they come in somewhere about 70-80. Whatever it is the flex feels good.

Obviously I prefer my Elite paddles for downwinding and flatwater, but I'm spoiled by that light weight, and I prefer a stiffer shaft for flatwater--I'm a 100Flex guy. I haven't tried them in the surf yet, but I suspect they will be a lot more at home there--the weight won't matter as much and the flex will be ideal for folks that like to lean back hard.

I haven't tested them in a press yet, but I put my full weight against the shaft and it just made a nice curve. I also boinked the brand new blade twice off the Lahina reef fending off while easing my way through the little boat channel (damn!). Hard whacks both times, but it came through like a champ. A little compression mark on the blade edge. I think it would have been worse with an Elite blade.

For some reason the sharkskin texture came out a little more aggressive on these shafts. Some people will like that, the ones that don't can tone it down with some very fine sandpaper.

I only have 19 of these right now--nine malikos and ten wikis. we'll be ordering a lot more in a month. If you want one let me know. I'll reserve one for you and make the addition to the eCommerce site some time in the next few days.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 21, 2011, 11:06:09 PM
Are there any pictures? Visible differences?

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 22, 2011, 01:45:24 AM
I'll shoot some to do the product listing. They look quite a bit different. The blade is gloss black, nice looking. No twill pattern of course, and the shaft is uniform black as well though the sharkskin gives it a strange shifty grey color highlight that moves around as you tilt the shaft. Of course that will be impossible to photograph. Looks pretty cool though. Handles are the same as the Elite paddles.

The Wiki version weighs 555 grams (19.5 ounces), which is still in the lightweight category, about the same weight as the Quickblade Elite. Feels heavy to me, but I'm spoiled.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on December 22, 2011, 01:56:48 AM
I'll shoot some to do the product listing. They look quite a bit different. The blade is gloss black, nice looking. No twill pattern of course, and the shaft is uniform black as well though the sharkskin gives it a strange shifty grey color highlight that moves around as you tilt the shaft. Of course that will be impossible to photograph. Looks pretty cool though. Handles are the same as the Elite paddles.

The Wiki version weighs 555 grams (19.5 ounces), which is still in the lightweight category, about the same weight as the Quickblade Elite. Feels heavy to me, but I'm spoiled.

Ok. I'll keep my eyes open! Thanks.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tecpartner on December 22, 2011, 03:53:42 AM
The fiberglass paddles will be a good option for those days when you have to get out, but there's a chance of lightning.  Always worries me when I have 84" of carbon fiber in my hands and there's a storm i the distance.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 22, 2011, 08:41:30 AM
Well, not much help there, the shaft is still carbon fiber, but it's unidirectional instead of 3K woven twill.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 26, 2011, 08:52:59 AM
I've been paddling the xTuf for a few more days, I'm very happy with them. The weight is surprisingly low--about the same as other manufacturer's elite paddles--and the performance is excellent. The flex is really ideal for me. I thought it was going to come in close to our 60Flex 3K shaft, but it's actually more towards the 90 Flex. Blade performance is identical to the elite, of course, though the swing weight is a little higher.

I'm really surprised we were able to pull this off. We think we can make at least twice as many of the xTuf as the Elites, which opens the door a bit more for dealers. And I think there's a lot more people willing to pay $295 for an excellent paddle as there are those willing to pay $375 for the top of the line.

So we're going to add ten more dealers and see how it goes. They'll still be pretty widely scattered, but we'll try to cover a reasonable geography.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUP Chef on December 26, 2011, 01:41:33 PM
Mr Bill, Merry Xmas to you and yours . Could you tell me , where I can buy one of your paddles on Maui ?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on December 26, 2011, 01:47:01 PM
From me. I will probably get around to setting up a Maui dealer in a week or so, haven't talked to anyone yet. In the meantime just PM me and we can set it up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on December 29, 2011, 06:29:31 PM
I'm going to start doing weekly demos in New England shortly. Obviously not as many folks out paddling this time of year but I figure those that do are the hardcore and deserve a Ke Nalu... ;D

If you're in New England and want to demo let me know and I'll try and schedule one close to you.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 01, 2012, 06:50:18 PM
Easiest way to heat adjustable handle:  set hair dryer on shelf.  Lean paddle against shelf sohairdryer is blowing hot air onto desired area.  Put towel over paddle so dryer is blowing into towel.  Watch closely so no house fire... Voila.  The towel redirects the hot air to the shaft. Works like magic and very quickly to boot.

By the way... A ke Nalu with an accidentally crooked handle still beats the stuffing out of a QB elite dimpled race paddle...  Tried them both today,back to back... No comparison... When I paddled with the QB, I saw my old friend, "flutter" for the first time in a long time... See the thread on my imagine downwinders for the full story...

Better living through applied physics...

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NickFL on January 02, 2012, 07:21:52 PM
Fabulous Heat Gun
I love the Ace hardware store in Kahalui, Maui--they have EVERYTHING and everyone that works there knows exactly where anything is. How did they do that? Even Diane loves it for their home section. They have particular pans that she has been looking for everywhere. That seems odd, she's kind of a high-end gal, but she's always willing to go with me to the hardware store. Always walks out with an armload of stuff--and she's NOT a shopper.

Anyway, I digress, Ace has a fabulous heat gun, cheap (about 30 bucks). It has "digital" temperature adjustments that are very accurate. I was able to set mine up so it heats the ferrules and shaft to a perfect temperature for gluing. If you're looking for one, this is the one to get.

The only challenge might be if you take your wife along and you happen to live in Maui. Your 30 buck heat gun might cost you a few hundred.

That's funny.  My parents have an Ace Hardware store on the side for when they retire.  I swear I can't stop by without leaving with a trunk load of stuff.  They often get lots of requests from customers for items they have used and like so we bring them in.  Very customer oriented.

Anyways back to the paddles.  I will be ordering one soon but not sure which one yet.  I have a QB Kanaha now that I think is the 100sq inch model.  The paddle will be for my new 14' infinity race board. I'm 6'1" and 210-215.  Thinking about the middle size.

Also any feedback from paddles in the sun.  If I leave it on the rack with one of the thule paddle holders could it get hot enough to release the glue? Prob need to keep it in a white bag.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 02, 2012, 09:57:21 PM
They don't heat up enough in the sun for the glue to release. The glue we use (and for that matter, the stuff from Ace Hardware) releases at 165F degrees. The hottest I've been able to get one sitting in direct Maui sun is 135F.

Hard to go wrong with the Maliko (8.5). It's pretty spot on. The Molokai is great for power surfing, or long distance races where you want max efficiency and you can settle down and stop pulling hard, but for racing at your weight I'd go with the Maliko.

I tire myself out with the Wiki. The little bugger makes me work too hard. It's fast for sprints, but geez.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 02, 2012, 10:23:40 PM
They don't heat up enough in the sun for the glue to release.

mine has - the bed of my pickup is black.   :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on January 04, 2012, 08:14:25 AM
Another point of view on Pono Paddles -
I had to stop rock climbing and minimize whitewater paddling due to elbow/shoulder pain but can SUP for miles without issues using my bent shaft Nitro. I bought the Wiki / 100 paddle and set it up 2 inches longer than my Nitro (12" above head) based on forum. I paddled for an hour and had to stop due to shoulder pain, which grounded me for over a week. So I went back to the nitro and had no shoulder issues, but now noticed how much it wobbled compared to the Wiki. I've shortened the Wiki 2 inches and that made all the difference - I've only tried it for an half hour to be safe and will try an extended paddle this week and get some stroke coaching. I still love my Nitro but hope to perfect my form enough with the wiki to try a Mailko. I'm wondering if this is a good plan for shoulder sufferers: start small, perfect form, and go to larger blades...or not. ???
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 04, 2012, 10:12:54 AM
You might be fine with a wiki for good, if you get used to it the higher cadence is a good thing when you want acceleration. I did the same thing to my shoulders--went a little too long.

I'm all over the board these days with paddle length. Completely confused. I've been doing distance training (laps around the harbor) with a Maliko at 88 inches which seemed great until I noticed my shoulders aching at night. Of course they always do, but this was Advil level stuff. That might be all the surfing I've been doing but I suspect it's over-extending my shoulder on training paddles. So I went down to 85 last night and we'll see what that's doing.

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good. I like how quickly I can change sides with 74" and I love the flex for cutbacks. Like sitting back into an easy chair. The short length helps to keep my ass off the shaft when I lean back too, and that's a good thing.

I believe in making big changes when you're stumped, and then small changes to tune. In the pure environment of the Columbia River (no surfing) it was a lot easier to tweak things. But toss surfing and big swell open ocean downwinders into the mix and everything goes a little sideways. I'm going to try to get back to making changes to only one thing at a time--leave my surf length alone and focus on flatwater length.

But I'm damned sure not going to stop surfing in all this great swell we're having.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on January 04, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
It's great to be able to change lengths, because it makes you aware of the various parts of the stroke more so than if you're stuck with one fixed length.  

A long paddle can definitely put more stress on your shoulder, not just because it takes more force to move a blade on a longer arm, but also because you have to lift it more every stroke when recovering forward.  

Also, I think people tend to overreach with longer paddles--partly because the length allows you to reach further before you have to stop reaching in order to lower the paddle into the water, and partly because people tend to buy longer paddles in the first place so that they can reach further.  (People who buy long paddles may sometimes be obsessed with the idea of reach, but people who buy short ones probably are more focused on rhythm and cadence.)  It's easy to get caught up in the idea that the further forward you can get the blade, the better.   Everyone's read Dave Kalama's "Reach, Dammit, Reach!" advice.  

But I think what he meant was to reach forward as far as you can with a proper-length paddle without distorting your body so much that by the time the blade's in the water, you've put your shoulder joint in an unstable position, lost your balance, and moved way beyond your power zone, so you have to waste time and energy to move the blade back to where it should have been in the first place before you can apply full power.  

And if you use a paddle that's too long, yes you can get it further forward in the water, but it distorts your stroke, puts more stress on your shoulders, and doesn't give you any of the benefits that you get when you put a shorter paddle that far forward by properly reaching with your body.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 04, 2012, 11:34:12 AM
I happen to be wearing the "Reach, Dammit, Reach" T-shirt that Dave gave me. Maybe that's the problem.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on January 04, 2012, 11:41:50 AM
Or you could try the Hail Mary approach to paddling without injury--go long and pray.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on January 04, 2012, 12:33:41 PM

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good.


Bill,

We have found, when pushing the limits of balance surfing small SUPs, short paddles severely hamper your balance. You want an upright torso for the best balance. Short paddles make you bend over a lot and really make you bonk a lot.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 04, 2012, 12:45:58 PM
+ 1 DW.

I haven't measured a paddle in lots of years... but measured my Peahi the other day to respond to a PM.  82 inches.  My Ke Nalu is the same height (just from looking at the two together on the paddle rack)... I am a shade over 6'1".

I think that is considered long for a surf paddle... but in an hour and a half in high tide head high surf refracting off a jetty in a crowded lineup this morning on my 7'9" by 26 by 3.6 "Adam" I fell exactly zero times.

Some of it is balance... some of it is an amazing board that Adam and Corran designed... and a good piece of it is the confidence that I have when I need to slap my Ponopaddle in the water for grip and use the leverage... it is now an extension of my arm...

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 04, 2012, 01:05:43 PM

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good.


Bill,

We have found, when pushing the limits of balance surfing small SUPs, short paddles severely hamper your balance. You want an upright torso for the best balance. Short paddles make you bend over a lot and really make you bonk a lot.

Probably helps that my go-to surfboard is a 10'10". But I know what you mean, I'm wobbling around a lot more than normal and my braces are not a good as they are with the longer shafts. I just like the feel once I get in the wave.

I bonk constantly, I don't think I could tell the difference. I'm tired right now just from typing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 04, 2012, 01:32:56 PM

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good.


Bill,

We have found, when pushing the limits of balance surfing small SUPs, short paddles severely hamper your balance. You want an upright torso for the best balance. Short paddles make you bend over a lot and really make you bonk a lot.

i have actually experienced the exact opposite as you. granted i don't think i necessarily surf a 'short' board since i ride a 9'0, and i am 6'2, 185. i now prefer a shorter paddle for surfing, and my current paddle is 5, maybe 6 inches overhead. i find the shorter paddle MUCH better for when the waves get big (and i know that big is a relative term, but for me it's big when it's over head to a couple feet overhead, and anything more than that i am just a spectator!).

when i surf the steeper, late-drop beach breaks the longer paddle is actually a hinderance. for those waves you already need to be in your surf stance, starting to crouch down (you can still crouch or get down and still keep a straight torso)  and be ready to go. with a longer paddle you are crouched down, but your arms are way up in the air while paddling, which its throwing off your balance. The shorter paddle allows me to bend at the knees a touch and lower my center of gravity and really dig in and take a later drop much easier. now even if it's a big day and it's a slow rolling, a-frame type wave, the paddle length wouldn't be as critical i would think. just my two cents, and YMMV!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on January 04, 2012, 02:08:03 PM

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good.


Bill,

We have found, when pushing the limits of balance surfing small SUPs, short paddles severely hamper your balance. You want an upright torso for the best balance. Short paddles make you bend over a lot and really make you bonk a lot.

i have actually experienced the exact opposite as you. granted i don't think i necessarily surf a 'short' board since i ride a 9'0, and i am 6'2, 185. i now prefer a shorter paddle for surfing, and my current paddle is 5, maybe 6 inches overhead. i find the shorter paddle MUCH better for when the waves get big (and i know that big is a relative term, but for me it's big when it's over head to a couple feet overhead, and anything more than that i am just a spectator!).

when i surf the steeper, late-drop beach breaks the longer paddle is actually a hinderance. for those waves you already need to be in your surf stance, starting to crouch down (you can still crouch or get down and still keep a straight torso)  and be ready to go. with a longer paddle you are crouched down, but your arms are way up in the air while paddling, which its throwing off your balance. The shorter paddle allows me to bend at the knees a touch and lower my center of gravity and really dig in and take a later drop much easier. now even if it's a big day and it's a slow rolling, a-frame type wave, the paddle length wouldn't be as critical i would think. just my two cents, and YMMV!

Most of what you talk about is surfing related and not staying upright related. When I'm battling whitewater on the way out, having a short paddle really hurts my ability to stick the foam and stay upright.

The other area of improvement is trolling for waves. Just cruising and staying upright in wicked chop is easier when your paddle actually reaches the water. My paddle must always be planted to stay standing. If you can stand without the paddle planted, your board isn't small.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 04, 2012, 02:14:01 PM
+ 1 DW.

I haven't measured a paddle in lots of years... but measured my Peahi the other day to respond to a PM.  82 inches.  My Ke Nalu is the same height (just from looking at the two together on the paddle rack)... I am a shade over 6'1".

I think that is considered long for a surf paddle... but in an hour and a half in high tide head high surf refracting off a jetty in a crowded lineup this morning on my 7'9" by 26 by 3.6 "Adam" I fell exactly zero times.

Some of it is balance... some of it is an amazing board that Adam and Corran designed... and a good piece of it is the confidence that I have when I need to slap my Ponopaddle in the water for grip and use the leverage... it is now an extension of my arm...

Tim

tim-

how much do you weigh?! i am 6'2, 185lbs and can't even imagine riding a board that small, let alone have it float me! my Stamps is 9x29x4, and i sink it just a touch. tim actually recommended me going 4.25, but thought that would be a bit thick, but i realize now why he recommended that thickness, because he really foils his boards thin in the nose, and especially the tail, which is one of the factors that i think allows his boards to be so maneuverable. i would love to see a picture of your board!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 04, 2012, 03:04:25 PM
ODJ,

I am clocking in at 185.

On this thread I have some pic's of the board:

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=14205.0 (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=14205.0)

This board is the BOMB.  For the next one, I am going to have Adam and Corran widen the tail a smidge... this is a good board for predictability but a wider tail would give me a touch more speed on the flats...

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 04, 2012, 03:06:53 PM

For surfing I've been using a Maliko xTuf at 74". Went back up to 78" yesterday to see how it felt. Answer: not quite as good.


Bill,

We have found, when pushing the limits of balance surfing small SUPs, short paddles severely hamper your balance. You want an upright torso for the best balance. Short paddles make you bend over a lot and really make you bonk a lot.

i have actually experienced the exact opposite as you. granted i don't think i necessarily surf a 'short' board since i ride a 9'0, and i am 6'2, 185. i now prefer a shorter paddle for surfing, and my current paddle is 5, maybe 6 inches overhead. i find the shorter paddle MUCH better for when the waves get big (and i know that big is a relative term, but for me it's big when it's over head to a couple feet overhead, and anything more than that i am just a spectator!).

when i surf the steeper, late-drop beach breaks the longer paddle is actually a hinderance. for those waves you already need to be in your surf stance, starting to crouch down (you can still crouch or get down and still keep a straight torso)  and be ready to go. with a longer paddle you are crouched down, but your arms are way up in the air while paddling, which its throwing off your balance. The shorter paddle allows me to bend at the knees a touch and lower my center of gravity and really dig in and take a later drop much easier. now even if it's a big day and it's a slow rolling, a-frame type wave, the paddle length wouldn't be as critical i would think. just my two cents, and YMMV!

Most of what you talk about is surfing related and not staying upright related. When I'm battling whitewater on the way out, having a short paddle really hurts my ability to stick the foam and stay upright.

The other area of improvement is trolling for waves. Just cruising and staying upright in wicked chop is easier when your paddle actually reaches the water. My paddle must always be planted to stay standing. If you can stand without the paddle planted, your board isn't small.

well, i guess we are just different! again, and maybe its because i am tall and lanky, but standing directly upright on a surf SUP just sets me up for disaster. when i am paddling out over whitewash and breaking waves i crouch down just a bit, lower my center of gravity while still keeping my torso straight and will usually be in a partial surf stance to punch through or pop over the wave then immediately step back into my paddling stance, or my 'waiting for a wave' stance, where my feet are still slightly offset, but not in a full surf stance. obviously there is a point where short becomes too short, and that probably varies from paddler to paddler, and i can't give my opinion on paddle length and the really short boards because i'm just not there yet in my ability and have never ridden anything less than 8'11, but to me, the only time a longer paddle helps is when, like you mentioned, you are trolling for waves, but for everything else the longer paddle just gets in the way for me. i've also found the shorter paddle really helpful for really fast turn arounds where i decide at the last minute that i want to turn and go. i get down a little, get in my surf stance and dig in hard with the paddle. when i had a longer paddle my arms were way up while the rest of my body was crouched down, and this was not good for balance! i am a hack SUP surfer anyway, so take what i do with a grain of salt!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 04, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
ODJ,

I am clocking in at 185.

On this thread I have some pic's of the board:

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=14205.0 (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=14205.0)

This board is the BOMB.  For the next one, I am going to have Adam and Corran widen the tail a smidge... this is a good board for predictability but a wider tail would give me a touch more speed on the flats...

Tim

i still don't see how that floats you, but that's the amazing talent that these shapers have! i just hope to be able to get to the point to be able to ride a board like that. it's pretty cool to see how different these boards are from one to another and how well they reform. my board has the volume more in the middle with the nose and tail nice and thin, but i suspect once you get down short enough you have to start distributing the volume along the entire board, but since it's shooter it's still going to be easy to whip around (especially by a guy your size) because it's short. i dig it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 04, 2012, 03:16:54 PM
ODJ,

"Float" is a relative term... the board is about 88 liters... and the water is right around my ankles most of the time... just gotta keep on paddling to keep the inertia... It's a fun challenge... WAY easier than the Collab!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soulpaddler on January 04, 2012, 03:31:10 PM
Holy cow Tim.  I have prone boards that are around that range. :o
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on January 04, 2012, 07:17:02 PM
Like TN_SUP, I also have a Werner Nitro and some shoulder issues to be careful about.  I was looking at the Wiki and wondering if anyone can say how the pull and cadence of the Wiki compare with the Nitro?  (As another point of reference, I've heard several times that the QB 90 blade has about the same pull as the Nitro, so maybe someone can compare that to the Wiki.)  Also, I don't quite understand the Ke Nalu shaft choices for someone looking for a little flex. Thanks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Reid SUP'd on January 04, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
I know I'm late to the picnic but my ke nalu maliko arrived today and it looks great, and feels even better! love the grippiness, can't wait to take it out for a spin!

Might be a stupid question but,

when inserting the blade does a lot of the glue bleed out?  it seemed like i pushed most out although it feels pretty solid once it cooled, i covered the joint with some electrical tape

i will take my time doing the handle as I also got the adjustable ergo,  i'm psyched to try it!

i think i made the right decision with the 60 flex even for distance but will have to wait and see
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 04, 2012, 09:27:17 PM
Yes, some glue should bleed out. It might be a bit late to say this, but the videos show you how to keep this excess off the blade and shaft--you mask both with electrical tape and use either a blade (like the back of a hacksaw blade, an old butterknife, or a business card) to scrape off the excess.

If you get both the ferrule with the glue on it and the shaft pretty warm, you can push the ferrule in and out a few times, twisting to get the glue well distributed. This is the best way, but we've had very few problems with the blade joints.

We've had two people who had problems with handle adhesion, three if you include me. Again it's a matter of getting the shaft and the ferrule warm enough. That doesn't mean blasting it in one place--carbon fiber is not that good of a heat conductor. You have to take you time and get it very evenly warm. You'll find that out for sure with the extended handle--it's really long, and everything needs to be warm for the entire length you're going to push it in. Tim's method with a towel to keep the heat in is right on. When it's all warm everything moves easily, but if you don't get the entire length you're going to push the handle into warm, then it will lock up. No problem, just heat it up more.

You can get the handle to go in if the shaft isn't warm, but the glue won't stick evenly. When it's evenly distributed it takes 200+ foot pounds of torque to twist a handle standard handle and disrupt the glue, more than 400 ft pounds for the extended. In fact I don't know how much, I didn't get it to turn. You can actually solve a loose handle problem by just rewarming the shaft until the handle moves freely, give it a wiggle and let it cool.

I'm warming up to the 60 Flex after playing with the xTuf so much in the surf. We adapt--that's what humans do. I'm going to try an xTuf shaft with an elite blade. I shouldn't say that, people will want one if it works and we have enough inventory problems as it is, but it's an interesting notion. The xTuf shaft has an interesting flex. The unidirectional carbon fiber is different. Doesn't have the same kind of stiffness in the vertical plane. It stacks up more, meaning it flexes easily at first, and then firms, like a recurve bow. Odd feeling, but good.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on January 05, 2012, 05:57:58 AM
Like TN_SUP, I also have a Werner Nitro and some shoulder issues to be careful about.  I was looking at the Wiki and wondering if anyone can say how the pull and cadence of the Wiki compare with the Nitro?  (As another point of reference, I've heard several times that the QB 90 blade has about the same pull as the Nitro, so maybe someone can compare that to the Wiki.)  Also, I don't quite understand the Ke Nalu shaft choices for someone looking for a little flex. Thanks.
The pull of the wiki seemed much stronger to me and the cadence is almost twice as fast - it's hard to slow down and not overwork yourself. I was pulling too hard with my lower arm which agravated my elbows. One thing I like about the Nitro is the long blade allows you to easily adjust how much is in the water (Bill is cringing here) which is handy when going upstream or upwind (or when your winded!). The shorter blade on the wiki means it almost always submerged so you're at 100% power. If I paddle all Friday afternoon with the wiki and don't have pain, I'll be a believer, but right now the nitro is magic on my body despite its wobbles. I wish I had bought at least a 90 flex shaft on the wiki for extra cushion.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on January 05, 2012, 06:47:19 AM
Interesting that you found the Wiki harder to pull (if I understood), yet higher cadence than the Nitro, since those would not tend to coincide.  I suppose when you feel more resistance, you tend to counter it with more effort. 

You're probably right about combining the smaller blade with a more flexible shaft for joint issues.  Speaking of flex, I was just at a surf shop comparing a bunch of QB Kanana paddles that had different shaft stiffness ratings.  But far more pronounced was the difference in flex between the carbon Kahana blade and the fiberglass Kanaha blade, the latter being only 1 ounce more (or the same weight depending on which specs you read.)  So I'm wondering if going to a fiberglass blade might provide more relief, or whether it would  feel entirely different from a flexible shaft.






Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on January 05, 2012, 07:14:13 AM
Should add I'm talking about the bent shaft nitro model that is 10" over my head. And I found the amount of pull proportional to the length of shaft - 2 inches on the wiki made a huge difference, as going from 12" overhead to 10" made the paddle feel completely different and easier to pull.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 05, 2012, 07:48:37 AM
The wiki cadence is high because the swing weight is so low. Recovery is extremely quick. You'd think it wouldn't matter that much but it does. Of course you can slow yourself down, but it doesn't feel right to do that.

You might try taking another inch off, or even just a half. When you hit the sweet spot for length it's a big deal. You may have to add a little glue with the cut and trying, ace hardware has hot glue sticks for their glue guns. Get the amber-colored ones. You can heat the ferrule up with your hairdryer or heat gun, soften the glue in the heat and just dab a little at the end of the ferrule. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: paddlejones on January 05, 2012, 07:54:42 AM
Bill,
Any time line for when the x-tuff pono paddle's are available?
thanks,
Jeff
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 05, 2012, 07:55:08 AM
Carmen, who so very capably runs shipping for Ke Nalu in Hood River, finally had her baby! On my birthday! How cool is that. Ryder Benjamin Tuttle, born at 2:14 this morning, 8 pounds, 20 inches. Welcome to the Zone dude. We'll put a paddle aside for him.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 05, 2012, 07:59:25 AM
Bill,
Any time line for when the x-tuff pono paddle's are available?
thanks,
Jeff

We have a large order being made, but it will probably take a few more weeks to ship. They're faster than Elite blades are to build, but only relatively.

I have about ten left here in Maui but we don't have any shipping boxes here.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: paddlejones on January 05, 2012, 08:01:51 AM
by the way... it looks like the Ace HDRW heat gun can be purchased throught the ace hdwr web site.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3521456&kw=heat+gun&origkw=heat+gun&searchId=54348581234 (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3521456&kw=heat+gun&origkw=heat+gun&searchId=54348581234)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 05, 2012, 09:13:29 AM
The Ace guns are great. I have the "digital" one which is a pretty fine piece of gear for 40 bucks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 05, 2012, 11:18:02 AM
The Ace guns are great. I have the "digital" one which is a pretty fine piece of gear for 40 bucks.

wasn't sure if you got my PM or not. The handles arrived yesterday, just waiting for the paddle to get here form Jim. Looks like it is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on January 05, 2012, 08:49:52 PM
Bill what is the best temperature to use with the acehardware heatgun
Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: river on January 06, 2012, 08:06:45 AM
Happy Belated Bill
Just wanted to pop in here and say I'm Loving both of my Kenalu blades.  The small one "8" Wiki for training and "deep water" whitewater and the Med"8.5" Maliko for strength conditioning and racing.  I will be putting them to the test at the Miami SUP Race and the Cold Stroke Classic in NC. Having the heat gun adjustment is actually really cool and I have changed my length 3 times now because I'm really picky about finding the perfect length per the board I'm paddling.  Have fun checking out the massive waves again Bill. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on January 06, 2012, 07:26:33 PM
Paddled hard this afternoon with the shorter Wiki and have no pain, so I'm i believer. You can transition from a bent shaft nitro to the wiki without a larger impact to your body. Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 06, 2012, 09:06:59 PM
Bill what is the best temperature to use with the acehardware heatgun
Thanks
Mike

I haven't paid that much attention. You can use a pretty intense heat if you keep it moving but you don't need a really high temperature, the glue melts at 165F, but you need even temperature. The carbon fiber is not that good a conductor of heat, The safest way is to keep it about midway on the temperature setting and move the parts around a lot.

Dan--thanks, glad to hear you like the paddles. The surf has been excellent lately.

TN--very glad to hear that worked out for you. I think the early catch of the Ke Nalu blades might aggravate some compromised shoulders at the same time the lack of flutter and wobble mitigates the effect. The best balance is probably a length that gives you good control but lets you get the blade fully submerged at the beginning of the stroke. I've shortened my race paddle again. My shoulders are feeling great.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 06, 2012, 09:14:23 PM
My Ke Nalu Maliko was waiting for me when I got home from work tonight. Looks great, fit and finish looks outstanding, LOVE the texture on the shaft. I am 6'2, and am using this as a racing paddle, and have to say I am VERY happy I went with the extended handle, otherwise it would be too short. I am going to start with 84", which is 10 " over my height. no way that would have happened with the standard handle. Good thing is no cutting for me! I work another 12 hour shift tomorrow, but will glue her up sunday morning and go for a paddle then and report back how it is!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 06, 2012, 10:38:30 PM
Here are pic's of the "on the fly" adjustment of the Ponopaddle from the other morning... using a blowdryer, a hoodie, and the electricity from the parking lot light pole.  Yes, it worked like a champ... in two minutes.  The hoodie is like the towel... keeps the heat around the shaft.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on January 06, 2012, 10:59:51 PM
Have to say I'm liking these paddles more and More. Did a 20km flat water run with my maliko this morning, just focussing on keeping the catch & recovery smooth and quiet and letting the blade do the work. No hand pain, no shoulder pain, no elbow pain, no anything pain, even got the glide 17 back on the car with ease  ;D. My previous paddles would have me reaching for the ibuprofen after a session like that.
Nice one Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 07, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
Here are pic's of the "on the fly" adjustment of the Ponopaddle from the other morning... using a blowdryer, a hoodie, and the electricity from the parking lot light pole.  Yes, it worked like a champ... in two minutes.  The hoodie is like the towel... keeps the heat around the shaft.

did you go with the standard length or the longer shaft? i had no idea there was a longer shaft option and just got what i assume is the standard length shaft. since i am going to be using the extended t-handle i will have about an inch or so gap between where the handle is and where it inserts the shaft and am wondering if this will cause any irritation or problems with my hand. experienced any issues with that joint being so close to your hand? i figure if that joint is too close to my hand i can always cut off an inch just to lover that point where thpaddle shaft and handle meet.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 07, 2012, 06:18:14 PM
There is a long shaft option (25 bucks), but it's really only intended for super tall people. With the extended handle you can have a Molokai that's 90.5 inches long, with the long shaft and the etended handle you can have a 96 inch paddle. So if you're in the NBA...

The abrupt edge of the Extended handle can be irritating. It bugged me. I just added a wrap of electrical tape and that cured it for me, but cutting an inch off will also move it well away from your palm.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on January 07, 2012, 07:22:50 PM
since i am going to be using the extended t-handle i will have about an inch or so gap between where the handle is and where it inserts the shaft and am wondering if this will cause any irritation or problems with my hand. experienced any issues with that joint being so close to your hand? i figure if that joint is too close to my hand i can always cut off an inch just to lover that point where thpaddle shaft and handle meet.

I've had my extended handles on both my pono paddles at various lengths from down as far as it will go (ie hard up against where the handle starts to flare out) to extended 3 inches or so. Haven't ever felt/noticed the join but I do have a couple of wraps of electrical tape on them.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: paddlejones on January 07, 2012, 07:52:43 PM
ODJ, Had the pono paddle and the fuse out today, no contest, pono paddle blows my mind
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on January 07, 2012, 08:22:23 PM
ODJ,

Standard shaft... don't even notice the joint.

Had it out again today did some more micro adjusting... Chazz is well above above the water and Candi has a recessed deck... so trying to dial in both lengths... using red permanent marker... also made a line from adjustable handle onto shaft so i never accidentally twist it when adjusting.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 08, 2012, 04:24:12 PM
Used the paddle today for the first time, and instead of listing all the rings i like about it (because it would be a long post) i'll list what i don't like about it...

...nothing at all. paddle is really nice and damn near perfect for me.

shaft felt a bit narrow compared to my Kialoa, but doesn't seem to be an issue, ergo T-handle is the best thing since i need to lengthen the paddle after today, and I have that invaluable option to do so on a carbon paddle.

At first I thought the paddle would be too small, but for me, in my reconditioned state, I think it's perfect. Went out today to concentrate on technique and reach, and the only time i got some flutter was when i was reaching out far just after putting the paddle in the water, but this was due to three things. first, i need to extend the shaft maybe 2 inches for next session, and at times i could have been reading too far ahead, and most importantly what i noticed is i was pulling too hard on the entry, and if i just relaxed a bit more on the entry and let the paddle start doing the work then sort of 'go with the flow' so to speak and 'assist' the paddle instead.

even though the paddle was 12" inches overhead (will go to 14" tomorrow) i got no shoulder pain. when i used a surf tech paddle that i had cut 12 inches overhead i got a lot of shoulder pain in the past. now my technique may have improved since then as well, but i feel my lats, obliques and intercostals more worked than my shoulders and biceps.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on January 08, 2012, 04:41:19 PM
I still have that 86" bent shaft fuse if you want to compare.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 08, 2012, 04:43:41 PM
possibly, but i don't see ant issues or problems with the Ke Nalu. If it ain't brine...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 09, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
second day out with the Ke Nalu. Did about 6+ miles today at a VERY leisurely pace concentrating just on technique. i've starting to find that when your form is good, this paddle will reward you for sure. when i cam very conscious of my form i can get the paddle to enter the water without causing any spacing or noise. it just slips in, and for a split second i just sort of relax and let the paddle initiate the stroke and then by body follows. the paddle will feel like it's set on rails, and is super smooth (i guess this is what Bill means by letting the paddle do the work?)/

I extended the handle 2 inches today and seems to be perfect now. experiencing mild shoulder discomfort, but think that was from crappy form yesterday, and felt fine while out today.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: BigDoug on January 11, 2012, 07:04:21 PM
@PonoBill, which KeNalu to get?  me, 250lbs, 6'2", 44 yrs primarily surfing 4-6' in NorCal, occasional races. 

coming from a QB Kanaha 8.7 x 17 which I broke a few days ago in Hanalei. I'd like the power/steadiness of the Kanaha and the quickness of a Kiola Methane.   

thanks!

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on January 11, 2012, 07:07:45 PM
@PonoBill, which KeNalu to get?  me, 250lbs, 6'2", 44 yrs primarily surfing 4-6' in NorCal, occasional races. 

coming from a QB Kanaha 8.7 x 17 which I broke a few days ago in Hanalei. I'd like the power/steadiness of the Kanaha and the quickness of a Kiola Methane.   

thanks!



i surf with a methane and bought a Ke Nalu Maliko for racing. I'm 35 years old, 6'2, 185lbs.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 11, 2012, 07:46:40 PM
@PonoBill, which KeNalu to get?  me, 250lbs, 6'2", 44 yrs primarily surfing 4-6' in NorCal, occasional races.  

coming from a QB Kanaha 8.7 x 17 which I broke a few days ago in Hanalei. I'd like the power/steadiness of the Kanaha and the quickness of a Kiola Methane.  

thanks!

Maliko. You'll be amazed at the power, early catch and steadiness. Mid cadence, not quite as quick as the Methane. If you REALLY want quick it's Wiki, but with your size (which is my size) the Maliko is a good choice. I'd get the extended handle and use it for both racing and surf.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 13, 2012, 08:07:14 AM
One of the posts somewhere on the zone prompted some new tests with the extended handle. As you know, the shafts are tapered, and the extended handle is straight. When you put the extended handle fully into the shaft it makes a double wall for as much as eight inches, which does have some effect on flex. It's nothing I can feel, but we all know it's not necessarily a difference you feel that makes a difference. So I measured it by putting weight at my typical lower hand spot to flex the shaft next to a wall so I could mark the curve with a pencil.

As you might expect, the curve with the handle all the way in has a little kink at the top. The total flex is nearly the same, about 1/4" less flex at the weight attachment point for the handle fully in. Probably in the band of error for how I held the pencil, though I was careful to keep it perpendicular to the wall.

Then I tried wiping the adhesive off. heating the shaft and running the handle through a few times to pick up some of the remaining adhesive and wiping it again. Then I applied the glue to the top inch of the handle shaft and put it full into the shaft, the theory being that it would not make a double wall for most of the flex since the taper allows flex without contacting the extended shaft.

It worked! At least it did with the 40 pounds that I used. The curve was nearly identical to the full retracted handle curve.

I don't know if it matters, but it's one more thing to fiddle with.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on January 13, 2012, 11:52:40 AM
PB--you're going to make this sport weird.  First you're going to have everyone showing up at races with blow dryers.  I guess I have to blame DJ for the ones showing up with nail polish. 

Now some guy's going to win a race, and in his victory speech he'll be saying he couldn't have done it without the tweaks made to his paddle handle by his Glue Man. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 15, 2012, 09:22:05 PM
Man. I just saw the results==Devin Blish beat me by five minutes at the MCKC race this weekend. I think it was mostly because of the line she took and the fact that she's a much smaller sail than I am. But I DID give her a Ke Nalu. She seemed pretty happy with it, but mostly I think she was glad to beat me, and glad that the hideous race was over. What a grind.

I'm not sure I want to think that it was the paddle. If it was then I can look forward to being beaten by a girl who weighs less than one of my legs for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 16, 2012, 02:52:34 PM
Wow, I slipped that one past PDX. I meant: For the rest of the season I can look forward to being beaten by a girl who weighs less than one of my legs.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on January 16, 2012, 06:57:57 PM
Steve at Hi Tech (Maui) showed me their new line of Ke Nalu paddles today.  Told me how great they were and how I should get one.  I just smiled and nodded.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 19, 2012, 03:43:15 PM
I just got a press release from Warner announcing their new race-specific paddles. They look really good. They're claiming to be the lightest paddles available at 15.5 ounces. Well, it's true that we say the Wiki is 15.9 ounces, but that's actually a bit high. Most come in at 15.5 or less. We have about a ten percent variation on weight--common in composites--and we list our paddle weights as the top 75% of the range. Still, we know how hard it is to get a paddle weight under 16 ounces, good to see Warner making a paddle in that range.

It would be interesting to see what the Ke Nalu weights are out in the field. Any of you Wiki owners care to share your paddle weight?

It might be time to roll out the ultralight shaft. I haven't been able to break it, and I've been giving it my best. The flex is about 80Flex on our scale, and it takes the weight down to 14.7 ounces.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on January 19, 2012, 05:05:31 PM
Hey Bill, still loving my two KeNalu paddles. 

On the topic of light paddles...is there ever a point where a paddle can be too light to affect performance? For example, is there a point where the weight of a paddle actually helps it or gives it some momentum through the water?  Has anyone ever felt a paddle to be too light?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 19, 2012, 09:15:37 PM
I don't think so, the only thing I find is that the very low swing weight of the Wiki encourages a faster cadence. I'm kind of an autopilot paddler, so I do find myself paddling with a faster cadence than I prefer with a Wiki.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on January 19, 2012, 10:24:03 PM
I went out today with one of Gorgebob's Malikos--this time my correct length.  With the wind at our backs, the paddle WAS basically weightless on the recovery--once I pulled it out of the water, without feathering it just blew forward with no effort on my part.  Based on that, I'd say having a paddle that was too light wouldn't be a bad problem to have. 

The paddle already was much lighter than my QB anyway.  The feeling was a bit weird (in a good way).  When you don't need to use any effort to push the paddle forward with your lower hand, and there's almost no weight to pull your upper hand down, my upper hand felt like it was resting on a floating handle--like it was being magically supported in midair by the handle.  Usually I feel like the handle is going to drop if I stop applying some force with my lower arm to keep the handle up in place. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on January 19, 2012, 11:02:10 PM


It would be interesting to see what the Ke Nalu weights are out in the field. Any of you Wiki owners care to share your paddle weight?



I'll share:

My Wiki - 484 grams (17.07 oz)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u178/armchair_spaceman/wiki.jpg)

My Maliko - 526 grams (18.55 oz)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u178/armchair_spaceman/Maliko.jpg)

excuse the crappy blackberry pics.

both have 100% standard-length carbon shafts and extended ergo-T handles, the Maliko has 30mm of shaft trimmed off (4 grams  ;D  - and thank goodness for the extended handles). Each has a wrap of electrical tape at the handle/shaft joints and a strip around the blade (sorry Bill, but that's how I roll). Probably a few grams variation here & there for glue.

Perception's a funny thing, a friend has been trialling both mine back-to-back on a couple of runs this week, he described the Maliko as "noticeably heavier". Only 42 grams but I suppose that's about 8% of the Wiki, I suppose it'll be the swing weight of the blade he's feeling. I spent a few minutes with another friend's QB elite 100 this morning, the weight in it was immediately present, it felt noticeably stiffer and I felt the power in it but I'm not sure how long I could run hard with it.

By contrast my Starboard Enduro 550 (full carbon) weighs 552 grams, my 8" Fanatic (80% Carbon/Bamboo) weighs 600 grams. Both are shorter than my Ke Nalus.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 19, 2012, 11:12:06 PM
The extended handle adds about 20-30 grams. An ergo-t weighs about 35 grams and most extended ergo-t's are 55 grams. The extended handles are molded so there's some variation. We're looking at some alternative ways to make them, they're a bitch.

Your buddy is definitely feeling swing weight. All of that 42 gram difference is in the blade.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on January 20, 2012, 07:12:33 AM
My 81" Wiki with an Ergo-T!

Henrik F

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Wood_Ogre on January 20, 2012, 04:37:41 PM
I like a light paddle for down wind and a heavey paddle for paddleing into the wind or when the wind is gusty. I always have two paddles on my board so I can take my pick' made a little clip to hold the extra paddle. Mined you this is flat water paddleing not in the surf . The one question I have been meaning to ask Bill , are your Pono paddles made in the US or are they make in asia or wherever ?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 20, 2012, 07:43:48 PM
China. We tried to do it in the US but couldn't find the time available on the kind of presses and tube forming equipment we wanted to use. As we grow we'll consider buying some of the equipment, or perhaps partnering with some US manufacturers who will take us seriously when we have some volume, but it's tough to do. You have to want to from almost purely patriotic reasons.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 21, 2012, 09:15:17 AM
Some of the most recent batch of Extended T handles are a bit too large in diameter. People who have them probably won't notice if they've cut the shaft more than two inches, but if your extended T handle is super hard to position, and that bothers you, let me know via email or PM. We'll have a fix for it shortly or we can replace your handle from the next batch.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 31, 2012, 10:59:20 PM
I've been experimenting with shortening my paddle a little to enable a little more core engagement. I now have the length set so my upper arm is slightly less than parallel to the board with max reach and the neck of the paddle at the rail. I'm playing around with Jonathan's take on engaging more of the legs and hips. The shorter length helps it happen, and since Ke Nalu paddles catch very early, I don't feel like I'm loosing anything. In fact it feels faster, though I don't have numbers.

For anyone dealing with shoulder issues, you have to try this. My creaky, hacked up shoulders feel wonderful. I did eight miles yesterday, most of it flatwater, and at the end my shoulders felt warm and loose. No pain at all last night. That's HUGE for me, my shoulders always hurt.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: dan.j on February 01, 2012, 02:16:04 AM
My wiki is coming in at 449grams

(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150625360920469&set=a.10150625360685469.445607.507170468&type=3&theater) and Maliko is 479grams, I did have the Extended handle in but found i was getting my paddle shorter and shorter.

current paddle length is 80inches Im 5'11''.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 01, 2012, 08:33:35 AM

I did have the Extended handle in but found i was getting my paddle shorter and shorter.
current paddle length is 80inches Im 5'11''.

Funny how that works, it's exactly backwards to what I expected. I started off going longer and longer but wasn't getting any benefit in speed and my shoulders started getting tweaky. Now my race paddle is shorter than it's ever been and my extended handle was pushed all the way in. So I cut five inches off my race paddle and pulled the extended handle back out. With the handle all the way in I'm at a good surf length.

I guess I have a new project. I need to figure out what the optimal, or at least suggested best length is for racing. I'm going to focus on flatwater for the time being since that's easiest to measure. I'm going to need more data points than just my own, so if any of you folks that have an extended handle and a GPS want to play along, we'll figure this out together.

I'll work on putting the test segments together and come up with a methodology, We'll need some physio analysis and advice. Maybe Balance_fit will help, he seems to really know his stuff. And a little regression analysis to ensure the validity of the testing. I can't remember the handle of the guy who checked the board tests, but I'll go dig that out. Seems like something worth knowing, or at least having a better starting point than "one shaka over your head".
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on February 01, 2012, 11:39:15 AM
^Bill it was member "Area 10" did the scrutiny on the Aussie board tests.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: dan.j on February 01, 2012, 11:51:29 AM
Yeah bill all the race folk here who are going really fast, are using short paddles,(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=230459157027521&set=a.230458780360892.56349.152223001517804&type=3&theater)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 1medic on February 01, 2012, 10:52:25 PM
I've been experimenting with shortening my paddle a little to enable a little more core engagement. I now have the length set so my upper arm is slightly less than parallel to the board with max reach and the neck of the paddle at the rail."

Hey Bill, How much shorter did you go? I'm using your Maliko and Molokai at 84 inches and I'm looking at going 2 to 4 inches shorter for racing and training. For reference I'm 5'11" and used Dave Kalama's method of paddle length (handle in palm at full vertical arm reach when standing).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 01, 2012, 11:28:41 PM
I have had my paddles as long as 86" for racing and downwind (I'm 6'2" and have pretty long arms) but now I'm down to 81" and it's feeling pretty good. I'm working on some ideas for the process to test length.

I had my surf paddle at 79" and dropped it all the way to 75" but it started feeling unstable. Today I surfed with my race paddle at 81 and it helped stability, but screwed up my cutbacks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 02, 2012, 01:40:16 PM
An update on the "fat" extended T handles. I had several conversations (both phone and email) with a customer who was having trouble getting his handle to fit and didn't really want to wait for a replacement handle. Since he wanted his Maliko paddle to be about 81" I told him to be generous cutting the shaft since that would solve the problem--but it didn't. So this morning I started sectioning a shaft every inch and discovered our shafts DO NOT taper for the first six inches.

Makes perfect sense that they don't, it prevents handles from being too loose until a lot of shaft gets cut away, but I had no idea that they were not a continuous taper. Made me feel like an idiot. Fortunately I'm used to that.

Anyway, if you have a handle that's too tight, cutting the shaft a little probably won't help. So just get in touch with us and we'll swap it out. Unfortunately we have a lot more fat handles than proper handles, and the next shipment isn't due for a week, so if you're ordering a new extended T handle you might have a little wait--unless you're really short.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on February 02, 2012, 02:37:41 PM
I finally got to use my new Maliko.

I'm 6'2 and used it uncut. That makes the Malikio 1.5" longer than my other brand paddle.

The Malikio took less effort to pull, and my board accelerated much faster. Going back to my other paddle, the strain was greater and I went nowhere paddling by comparison.

It was a twilight zone experience for sure. How the Malikio can look so ordinary and perform so much better is beyond me.

BTW, my old paddle and the Maliko are the same square inch blade size.



Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 02, 2012, 09:23:49 PM
Powered by psychos
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 02, 2012, 09:39:10 PM
Powered by psychos

 ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on February 03, 2012, 04:20:56 AM
Hello PB, if it helps, I'm very happy to work with you to design and analyse a trial to see if "shorter is better" when it comes to paddles. It does seem like something we should know.

Just let me know what resources you would have (numbers of paddles, paddlers, how easy it would be to change lengths of paddles, how long you have for the trial, how long each run would take etc), and I can make some suggestions. In fact, if you wanted, I could even give you a spreadsheet of orders of runs, paddles, paddlers etc so all you would have to do is just fill in the blanks when you get your group together. I'm then happy to let the magic of multiple regression do its thing.

Now off to go paddle. It's currently -1C outside (30F) with a cold NE wind and I'm having to paddle in the sea today because my local protected waterway is completely frozen over. Brr... THIS is why cold water SUPers like me are continually asking about the stability of boards: Drysuits and wetsuits get too hot if you train hard, but a dip without them in this weather a long way from home could really put a crimp on your day.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 03, 2012, 04:33:47 AM
This trail should be very interesting. Maybe I'll have to shorten my Wiki when you're finished. Unfortunately I'm in the same position as Area 10. It is -10°C and the Baltic is being closed rapidly with ice. My home harbour/beach is frozen already  :( :( :(

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on February 03, 2012, 04:48:54 AM
-10? Baltic? Henrik, you win. You are my new hero.

Paddle on brother, may your booties be always dry and warm, and your board steady .
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 03, 2012, 07:15:40 AM
-10? Baltic? Henrik, you win. You are my new hero.

Paddle on brother, may your booties be always dry and warm, and your board steady .

Sad to say this but I'm all but a hero. I hate getting out paddling when the temperature is falling down to around 0°C (32°F). Maybe if someone paid me a huge amount of cash I would try paddling in this weather.
Right now the temp has dropped even further. -12°C. Fy fan i helvete <-- Cursing in Swedish.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 04, 2012, 06:57:00 AM
This is what my beach looks like at the moment. Or more likely it will look like this for the next month or so...  :'(

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on February 04, 2012, 07:34:39 AM
Regarding the discussion of shorter paddles for compromised shoulders, I was just noticing that if you grip the paddle shaft "Connor style" instead of gripping the handle, it automatically changes the angle of your forearm and puts your elbow lower, helping with shoulder protection (though it might be tougher on the wrist.)   Could be something to experiment with.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JonathanC on February 04, 2012, 01:17:28 PM
Regarding the discussion of shorter paddles for compromised shoulders, I was just noticing that if you grip the paddle shaft "Connor style" instead of gripping the handle, it automatically changes the angle of your forearm and puts your elbow lower, helping with shoulder protection (though it might be tougher on the wrist.)   Could be something to experiment with.

Funny you should mention that.....

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/im-going-to-be-laughed-at/ (http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/im-going-to-be-laughed-at/)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JonathanC on February 04, 2012, 01:20:18 PM
I finally got to use my new Maliko.

I'm 6'2 and used it uncut. That makes the Malikio 1.5" longer than my other brand paddle.

The Malikio took less effort to pull, and my board accelerated much faster. Going back to my other paddle, the strain was greater and I went nowhere paddling by comparison.

It was a twilight zone experience for sure. How the Malikio can look so ordinary and perform so much better is beyond me.

BTW, my old paddle and the Maliko are the same square inch blade size.


Spooky isn't it ???

I've just sold the last of my 'old' paddles that up until recently I loved but found I just couldn't stand to use anymore.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: capobeachboy on February 04, 2012, 01:34:49 PM
Oh man I've had my KeNalu since October and I'm going thorough the same experience.  I use the KeNalu in the surf, flat water & racing and I am having a hard time going back to the old paddles.  Nothing compares in weight, comfort and getting a clean stroke.  I am totally stoked on this paddle and ready to order up #2.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on February 04, 2012, 01:45:18 PM
That is spooky.  Now how about a molded carbon "Connor" handle that can be moved anywhere up or down the shaft with a slider lock on the back side that wedges against the shaft.

True story (according to a patent attorney) -- after the Industrial Revolution in the late nineteenth century, the head of the U.S. Patent Office suggested shutting down the Office because "everything of use had already been invented."

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 04, 2012, 03:49:25 PM
(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/kenalupics/handle.jpg)

I made this today out of an old oval shaft from a broken paddle (I have a lrge collection of broken stuff) and stuck it on my goto Maliko. So far I'm really liking it. Just pulled the handle off, put a dab of glue inside the bit of shaft, and stuck it where I usually put my hand in the choked down position.

I made a Siamesed handle yesterday from one of our Ergo handles with a 45 degree section cut out of it. Then I epoxied it to a section of lower shaft that telescopes onto the tapered upper shaft, and glassed it into place on the section so I could try it in various positions. It works ok but feels odd. Next I'm going to get a ski pole grip and fab something like Lacey's on Seabreeze, but I'll have a extended ergo-t above it as I do with this simpler handle.  
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on February 04, 2012, 03:59:27 PM
I made this today out of an old oval shaft from a broken paddle (I have a lrge collection of broken stuff) and stuck it on my goto Maliko. So far I'm really liking it. Just pulled the handle off, put a dab of glue inside the bit of shaft, and stuck it where I usually put my hand in the choked down position.
What's the purpose of that, versus just putting tape on the shaft to grip at the choked-down position?  Is it to give you a wider section to hold onto?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 04, 2012, 04:07:12 PM
yup. Plus the oval section gives a bit more torque. It's not clear in the picture, but the handle is quite a bit bigger than the shaft and has a bulge on the bottom to rest the meaty part of my hand against.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on February 04, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
Interesting Bill... just like building up your grip on your tennis racket...

Let us know.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AlbinoRhino on February 04, 2012, 08:33:20 PM
Just picked up my Ke Nalu Maliko paddle at Hi-Tech on Maui.  Wavered a bit between the Maliko and the Molokai, I'm 6' 250, but the guys at Hi-Tech were really great and helped me decide.  Can't wait to try it out tomorrow morning before the big game.  I'll report back after I take it out for a test.  Can't wait.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: T-Boy on February 04, 2012, 09:53:15 PM
I've had three good surf sessions with my Wiki-60%shaft and I love it,  the flex is just  right no prob. getting into waves on my 9'0" and my bum left shoulder actually feels better after surfing! Good job Bill and thanks again for the demo at the harbor. T
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on February 04, 2012, 10:28:52 PM
yup. bigger than the shaft and has a bulge on the bottom to rest the meaty part of my hand against.

I'm not sure I like where this is going.   I thought this was a family values type of place.   ???
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 05, 2012, 11:10:37 AM
Anytime we talk about handling shafts the place just goes to hell.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: river on February 05, 2012, 05:43:39 PM
Loving the Wiki Pono.  Seems pretty freaking solid too:)  Lots of miles and heavy hits and she's holding on strong.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 07, 2012, 04:32:34 PM
Yea!!! Someone finally broke a Ke Nalu!

Okay, I know it's a little nutty to be excited about this, but it's really pretty cool. Of the hundreds of paddles out there we've had one blade swell in the sun (weird), UPS broke one, and an extended ergo-t handle broke.

This paddle broke during a race in New Zealand. the interesting thing is that it broke the shaft, not the joint. Most paddles break in the joint or the blade. The shaft breaking is very unusual. This was a 60Flex shaft, and they have about 80 percent of the strength of the 100 and 90 flex. Still, the 60 Flex shaft goes to 200 pounds in my press without any noticeable effect. Guy has got to be a gorilla.
(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/kenalupics/brokenk.jpg)

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/kenalupics/brokenk2.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on February 07, 2012, 05:42:21 PM
 That's very good, PB. Not a bad percentage, at all.  Even better that you chose to publicly talk about a paddle that failed here on the Zone. I love that about you...  I sell paddles (and a few other things) as a living and love a company (or person) that chooses to air their dirty laundry in the open.
 I have yet to get my Ke Nalu in the water (it's still in its box) but look forward to putting her through her paces here in our harsh Florida conditions  ;D ;D ;D... Keep up the great work and paddle on,                   JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tecpartner on February 10, 2012, 08:49:18 AM
You can always tell a manufacturer that is proud of their product, because they aren't afraid to talk about the failures. 

Bill, any a progress on a bent shaft Ke Nalu?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 10, 2012, 10:18:21 AM
Nope. It's going to be a while. I tried a couple of experiments and lost catch like crazy. We're going to have to design a blade that works with a bent shaft or find some way to maintain a vertical aspect.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on February 10, 2012, 12:13:04 PM
Got my new Molokai yesterday.  Scrambled to put it together last night after the kids went to bed and before I had any wine (never drink and fix / build).  
I awoke and was dragging this morning from Buoy intimidation.  13 feet @ 15 seconds tends to slow me down as I contemplate my resolve.  . . .  That said I peddled my electric bike to my local spot and within 30 minutes caught my first 2 waves with the Molokai in hand.  Considering that a regular, who had been out since dark, said the second wave was the biggest he had seen all morning, and I was at Mavericks, I believe this is a good start to the relationship.
PS: I did catch a little bit of air on that second wave and nearly left something in my suit.  
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on February 13, 2012, 01:31:30 PM
Nothing quite as dramatic as Beasho... but I had a chance to paddle my Molokai side by side with my Maliko yesterday.  Didn't feel like driving down to my new NW swell secret spot (there was a distance event there yesterday and parking would have been a nightmare) ... didn't feel like hassling at Creek... so I rolled up to DogPatch at dawn.  Went out on my 8'3" ... (not a DogPatch board)... remebered why I really don't like DogPatch and was ready to pack it in after a half hour... in fact, rode a wave in, intending to bail.

As I am walking to my car, I see Chazz on top... taunting me... ("betcha can't turn me!")...  I put the plastic snap in fin in the box (didn't want to break a Larry Allison fin on the cobbles)... and paddled Chazz out... 2-4 ish a little rolly.  First with the Maliko... then with the Molokai.  The Maliko is distance length, the Molokai is surf length... Conclusion:  I need to get a distance length Molokai!  Once, I actually whiffed with the Molokai and ended up on my arse (actually in the water) as I wasn't used to the shorter length.  The power burst of the Molokai is addicting...

Let's just say that Chazz was having a blast at DogPatch... catching lots of waves... riding some of them all the way through to the inside... kind of tough to pivot to go off the top with that plastic fin... and I need to put some wax behind the pad.  Corran nailed this shape!

I probably had more fun in those four hours at the Patch than I have EVER had at the Patch... got a teeny bit of grief that I wasn't playing fair... but I think it was all in good fun.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PaddleCrazy on February 13, 2012, 11:37:43 PM
Bill,

Got a chance to finally give one of your paddles a try.  All I can say is WOW!!!

What a difference between my "no name, package deal" paddle and your fine piece of equipment.  Even just picking it up on the beach, and the differences were immediately noticeable.  The weight difference alone was amazing and the feel of the thinner handle (compared to mine) was instantly more comfortable.

Once on the water, the smaller paddle surface (was only able to demo the Wiki) had better "bite and stability" (my uninformed words, hope they make sense) were far better than my paddle, even with its larger surface.

What was really interesting, that being able to go back and forth from my paddle to the Wiki, I realized for the first time what "paddle flutter" (dealers words) was.  All the times I had paddled previously, I was never aware of how my paddle actually moved through the water, until I compared it how every stroke of the Wiki was solid and consistent, without any movement, other than the straight pull from point A to point B.

I'm now just waiting for "SUP-POSITION Paddle Boards" (Ralph is fantastic Bill, excellent choice) to get their next shipment of Malikos in, and I too will be a Ke Nalu convert.

Thank you Bill, for all of your help, and for creating such an excellent product.  You've made me a believer.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on February 14, 2012, 10:43:50 AM
Here's a video from this past weekend.  Paddling the 2012 Naish Glide 14 using the KeNalu Maliko.  Not the best downwind conditions but this goes to show how nicely the paddle works into swells, in the chop, and in the flats! Love the new Naish Glide and love the KeNalu paddles!

Hilo Open Ocean (http://vimeo.com/36627431)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 14, 2012, 11:04:00 AM
Looking Good Takeo.

You've got to hop over and do some Malikos with HM and I. I've got an extra Bullet, no need for lugging boards. It's going to get better and better from here on--February is supposed to be flat but it's been windy--whitecaps to the horizon right now at 9:00 AM. Sucks for surfing, but good Maliko runs.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 15, 2012, 02:05:54 AM
I have a wing blade working. Or at least working pretty darned well. I built it on a wiki blade. Monster catch when it's stroked properly. If you pull it straight back it doesn't do much, but push down and the catch increases by a bunch.

Turns out I was trying too hard, the stability issue went away when I made the curves more subtle, and the lift may have actually increased. I think the flow was separating. Makes a wicked vortex, but doesn't wobble.

More later.

"some people calls it a Kaiser blade, but I calls it a wing blade".
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 15, 2012, 07:16:39 AM
I have a wing blade working. Or at least working pretty darned well. I built it on a wiki blade. Monster catch when it's stroked properly. If you pull it straight back it doesn't do much, but push down and the catch increases by a bunch.

Turns out I was trying too hard, the stability issue went away when I made the curves more subtle, and the lift may have actually increased. I think the flow was separating. Makes a wicked vortex, but doesn't wobble.

More later.

"some people calls it a Kaiser blade, but I calls it a wing blade".

What is a wing blade?

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on February 15, 2012, 07:46:39 AM
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: gorgebob on February 15, 2012, 08:38:55 AM
Bill
Check if the customer of the busted paddle wears a ring. We had a issue where the paddle was worn at that spot where the ring made contact. After thousands of strokes on hundreds of days it made sense.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on February 15, 2012, 09:05:49 AM
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.

Thanks!!! Now I get it.

Cheers

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on February 15, 2012, 11:11:48 AM
Looking Good Takeo.

You've got to hop over and do some Malikos with HM and I. I've got an extra Bullet, no need for lugging boards. It's going to get better and better from here on--February is supposed to be flat but it's been windy--whitecaps to the horizon right now at 9:00 AM. Sucks for surfing, but good Maliko runs.

Thanks for the offer Bill! It is my dream to one day do a Maliko run! For now, doing a lot of work for a short glide or two! Your paddles have definitely made it a lot more fun! I got the Maliko and the Wiki both cut at 11" over, down from 13" over, way less shoulder strain.  The paddles catch so strong, have to protect the shoulders!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 15, 2012, 04:01:49 PM
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.

It's not that difficult to understand wing paddles. People think of paddles as pushing water backwards, and certainly the momentum of the water equals the momentum of the board and person, but it's not just the water on the front of the blade but ALL the water that has some velocity applied to it with a vector component in the opposite direction of the board travel. So even water being squirted off to the side at a rearward angle is contributing to your forward momentum.

Of greatest interest after the water in front of the blade is the water behind the blade. Wing paddles work by generating lift, which does a better job of imparting a velocity to the mass of water behind the paddle. Without lift the water motion behind the paddle is more random which requires work to generate but doesn't add much momentum. What I'm working on is increasing the lift of the back of the blade, which is exactly what the swedes did when they invented wing paddles in the 80's.

For a stroke that is straight back--for example, one using just the lower arm to pull the blade straight back--there isn't any wing effect available to speak of. But most intermediate and advanced paddlers stroke downward, with a stiff lower arm. Some even lock both arms and move the paddle as the base of a triangle using shoulder and core rotation. This imparts a lot of downward motion to the blade and creates an opportunity for lift.

Our paddles already have a fair amount of wing lift. The low offset angle and the curved back generates lift off the back with a downward stroke. That's one reason why some people say our paddles catch "way above their size" and others wonder what they are talking about.

What I'm up to is getting more of this lift by curving the back more and directing the flow in the back of the paddle toward the center. The result doesn't look much like an epic, it's not intended to slice the water horizontally. I didn't have any problem getting lift, in fact it's easy to get too much. What I had a problem with was making it stable and keeping it centered. At first it generated wobble. When I fixed that it would sometimes fail to lift even if the stroke was good. So you'd get ten strokes with huge catch and one that felt like the blade fell off. I think I've got it solved. Now I need to move from blue foam glued to a blade to a fiberglass prototype and see what it does, then we'll decide if it's worth building these.

If nothing else it's kept me off the streets at night.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 15, 2012, 07:25:56 PM
I'm pumped...I've got 6 carbon fiber beauties in my living room. Time to get the blow dryer out.... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ENCINITAS_SUP on February 17, 2012, 04:06:59 PM
Just about ready to pull the trigger but really can't decide between the molokai and maliko.

I'm 5'10" 225, pretty strong guy, trying to work on my Tahitian stroke, spend most sessions trolling for waves up and down the coast on my 10'4" PSH.  I'll cover 2 or 3 miles up and down the coast during a session.   Anyone paddled both the molokai and the maliko and could give me their thoughts on how they compare. 

I use a paddle with a 90 sq in. blade now and I often don't find the catch very satisfying and feel that I could apply a lot more power to a bigger blade.

 

Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on February 17, 2012, 04:26:15 PM
Just about ready to pull the trigger but really can't decide between the molokai and maliko.

I'm 5'10" 225, pretty strong guy, trying to work on my Tahitian stroke, spend most sessions trolling for waves up and down the coast on my 10'4" PSH.  I'll cover 2 or 3 miles up and down the coast during a session.   Anyone paddled both the molokai and the maliko and could give me their thoughts on how they compare. 

I use a paddle with a 90 sq in. blade now and I often don't find the catch very satisfying and feel that I could apply a lot more power to a bigger blade.

 

Thanks

You should tell us the brand of that 90 sq in paddle. All 90 sq inchers are not created equal. Then we can tell you about how much extra power the KeNalu might have.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ENCINITAS_SUP on February 17, 2012, 04:37:56 PM
Its an Xpaddle if I'm not mistaken.  I'm trying to step up from a civic to a ferrari here ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 17, 2012, 05:00:50 PM
If you think you want a lot of catch, then go for the Molokai. it's going to be a shock, you're going to absolutely think it's too big. But you really should have as big a blade as you feel you can manage, it's more efficient and it gives you more torque to turn and launch from. Maliko is the safe bet, but if you make the Molokai work for you it will be a big deal. I went to a Molokai for my surf blade. Once you stop pulling hard on it, it's a revelation.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on February 17, 2012, 05:04:53 PM
I have both.  I like the Molokai so much that I just ordered another one from the local distributor... this time with the adjustable handle.  For waves... there is just something about that PUNCH from the Molokai...

For a six or eight hour intense paddle, I would probably choose the Maliko just because the Molokai is such a workout... but if you concentrate on good form, your big muscles will last a long time.

Four intense hours on the Molokai is NO PROBLEM!

I was blown away by the power of the Molokai at first... my muscles were sore... then I worked on my form... now it is all good.

Can you say T-U-R-B-O?

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on February 18, 2012, 09:59:57 PM
Took my Molokai out for the first time this morning.  Pretty smooth paddle.  Does feel different than my QB Kanaha.   Weight difference is negligible at 3/4 of an ounce although the Ke Nalu is a couple inches longer.

The curved/scooped blade must catch more water because it caused my 17 footer to yaw quite a bit which doesn't happen with my Kanaha. 

The one thing I didn't like was the paddle made my fingers go numb after about 2 miles.  Never had that happen before.  Only thing I can think of is that the narrow shaft is the cause, but that is just speculation. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 18, 2012, 11:49:06 PM
You're pulling too hard. Everyone does that with a Molokai at first--me included. It catches very early and strongly which is why your board is yawing. Having all that pull way out in front of the center of gravity turns the board. Relax your hands, let the paddle track itself, and don't pull so hard. You'll go just as fast with a moderate pull. I know that sounds weird, but if you have a GPS give it a test.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on February 19, 2012, 05:55:48 AM
Hands were relaxed.  I made a conscious effort to do that after reading posts on here.   By the end of my paddle I was probably not pulling as hard.or was figuring out how to pull it through the water because the yawing had minimized.  I'll focus on not pulling as hard next time out and see how it goes. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on February 19, 2012, 09:06:09 AM
  Finally had a chance to get on the water with the KeNalu (Thank You, Bill)... Sweet paddle - real smooth! First thing you notice is the weight; Super-light... Next is the catch (or grab) as the tip of the blade enters the water. Again, super smooth and powerful, as well... The stroke is like a hot knife through butter (if this phrase has previously been used - sorry), as is, the release... I mean the best word to describe this paddle is SMOOTH...
 I sell paddles and have tested quite a few and the KeNalu is at the top of the list for what it is: A high quality, high-end, light-weight and well thought out piece of equipment. I'm in N-Fla if any of you local paddlers want to test-paddle it. Just PM me and we can set up a meet-up... Paddle on KeNalu,                JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 19, 2012, 09:28:18 AM
two JD's in a day! Thank you Mr. Motes, good to see you finally got in the water with a Ke Nalu.

Other JD, what screws everyone up with the Molokai is how early it catches. Most paddles only have a small percentage of the blade anywhere near vertical at the catch. The Molokai has about 60 percent. It's even a lot more than the Maliko which has the same shape because most of the extra area of the Molokai is in the sweet spot from the hip of the blade to the tip. So as soon as you start to pull on a Molokai you have nearly full blade engagement.

I have pulled myself off the board going for a wave more than once.

As I said, the answer is to tone it down. With a softer pull you'll get just as much thrust as a Maliko with a hard pull. But when you want it, it's all there.

One of our best women paddlers on Maui, Devin Blish, is using a Molokai. My thigh weighs more than she does and she's killing me in the MCKC races ever since she got hers.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: LaPerouseBay on February 19, 2012, 12:10:41 PM

One of our best women paddlers on Maui, Devin Blish, is using a Molokai. My thigh weighs more than she does and she's killing me in the MCKC races ever since she got hers.


Good on you for sponsoring Devin, she loves the new paddle.  She will be on the podium in all the big races this summer. 

Yes, you have over a hundred pounds on Devin.  She's a fit athlete - does a lot of cross training. 

She was on our run yesterday.  Although we weren't racing, she did finish well before me.  And I was on my ski...

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but your claim that she's beating you in the MCKC races "ever since she got hers" seems odd to me (if I read between the lines). 

It almost seems you are claiming to have been on par with her - until she got a ke nalu molokai.  My words, apologies if i turned it around.  Regardless, I'm calling shenanigans on that. 

I know Devin, I've paddled with Devin and you sir, are no Devin.  She may be in sight on flat water or crappy conditions, but it's probably because she - like most of us - don't give a rat's ass when it's crappy.  She has hopped on Jeremy's 24" Foote maliko and flown with her old paddle.  I couldn't catch her in my oc-1...   
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 19, 2012, 12:58:06 PM
Well, I beat her fair and square in the first race of the season, got a bad start, but I ran her down and passed her, along with a few other folks. Beat her by a reasonable margin. I don't remember what it was. She may not have given a rat's ass at first, but she, like most other folks, do NOT like a fat old guy beating them. I don't think she was loafing when I passed her.  I'm not bad in flatwater for an old fart. I can beat Boyum in flatwater on identical boards though I weigh at least 60 pounds more than he does, and he KILLS me on a downwinder.

I gave her a paddle at the next race--still flatwater--and she flogged me with it. Beat me by ten minutes. I kept thinking I was going to catch her and pass her, but she kept pulling away. I certainly don't present any challenge to Devin on a downwinder. She disappears quickly, as she did at the MCKC Maliko.

My point REALLY was that this little slip of a girl chose a Molokai, our monster catch 9" blade, and she's been spanking me (and other folks) with it. You don't have to pull hard on a big catch blade, in fact you can't. It will just blow you up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: CMC on February 19, 2012, 06:10:44 PM
I finally got to use one of these paddles yesterday on our local standard downwind run.  Paddling a 14' in 15knot + conditions.  The paddle was owned by the infamous Lacey.  The Paddle was the Maliko.

I normally use a QB Elite Racer which I love.

First impressions were as expected, great finish, weight and design.

At the beginning of the paddle I felt pretty much at home with this paddle off the bat, the shaft thickness, texture, stiffness felt good.  The paddle was a very similar length to my QB.

As expected by the feedback here it had a smooth entry and steady controlled pull.  While paddling relaxed with a full stroke it felt very good.

The differences I found were:

The Palm Grip.  I understand why everything is clear coated for presentation but I found the shiny finish especially being a 30C mid day paddle to become very slippery, on quite a few occasions when changing sides chasing bumps my hand slipped off the handle.  If it was my paddle i would straight up rub it back flat with 300 grit wet and dry to get rid of the slip.  My QB has the EVA grip which does not have this issue.  Not a problem for the paddle, just my sweaty hands...

The balance of the paddle.  This paddle is super light total, as mentioned here also the weight is in the blade.  I found that the swing weight or pendulum feeling was ever so slightly different feeling a touch heavier in the blade. I am not sure where the KeNalu comes in here.  Again it's just something I would need to adjust to, it's clearly a different paddle.

Paddle exit.  The main difference I found with this Paddle was a slight bite on exit when paddling at full speed, for a runner etc.  It could be my issue but I found that when paddling all out in front at 100% to chase a bump with the paddle coming out way in front of the feet when there is no real chance to let the power off before you exit and race back to the catch I felt that it gave resistance to being twisted out of the water.  As I said above this is probably more to do with my technique but my QB does not do this.  It would be something I could adjust to again.

Apart from these small things it's an amazing paddle and I can understand all of the great feedback, I'd happily own one with the customization adjustments as above.  I'd also use the T-Grip as opposed to the Palm grip.  I paddle Outrigger also and I like the feel of the T-Grip to provide a better control of the blade and also to catch with the thumb on changing sides.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 19, 2012, 06:34:31 PM

The Palm Grip.  I understand why everything is clear coated for presentation but I found the shiny finish especially being a 30C mid day paddle to become very slippery, on quite a few occasions when changing sides chasing bumps my hand slipped off the handle.  If it was my paddle i would straight up rub it back flat with 300 grit wet and dry to get rid of the slip.  My QB has the EVA grip which does not have this issue.  Not a problem for the paddle, just my sweaty hands...

Paddle exit.  The main difference I found with this Paddle was a slight bite on exit when paddling at full speed, for a runner etc.  It could be my issue but I found that when paddling all out in front at 100% to chase a bump with the paddle coming out way in front of the feet when there is no real chance to let the power off before you exit and race back to the catch I felt that it gave resistance to being twisted out of the water.  As I said above this is probably more to do with my technique but my QB does not do this.  It would be something I could adjust to again.

Apart from these small things it's an amazing paddle and I can understand all of the great feedback, I'd happily own one with the customization adjustments as above.  I'd also use the T-Grip as opposed to the Palm grip.  I paddle Outrigger also and I like the feel of the T-Grip to provide a better control of the blade and also to catch with the thumb on changing sides.

I sand my handles, but I use 1000 grit paper that used for cleaning pool cues--eliminates the slip but leaves them still looking pretty good. I just sand the top edge. I might have to try a more aggressive grit.

The exit is definitely tricky with a Ke Nalu. It works best with a firm feathering just as you finish the power phase. I feather with my lower hand and it really pops the paddle, but if you don't feather, or you feather too late, it absolutely sticks. We gave up some ease of use for better catch.

Glad you liked the paddle. I like the Ergo T best, it gives the kind of control you're talking about, but a lot of people like the comfort of the Ergo. We do a full classic T as well, mainly for the OC paddlers.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 19, 2012, 07:52:17 PM
I think when it comes to handles we're about the only company that's crazy enough to offer this many options, except for EVA-covered handles. I have to confess that's because of my bias--and perhaps Lane's. I don't like them. They get ragged fast and they promote blisters. So yeah, we should probably not inflict our biases on our customers, but I REALLY don't like them. And that's really only four handles, handle five is just the backside of the Ergo-T.

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/kenalupics/handles.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on February 19, 2012, 08:03:35 PM
EVA handles... I have always used EVA handles... but they tear... every EVA handle I have ever have, I have torn to bits... I still wanted one for my Ke Nalu...

I have waxed up my grips... and now I don't miss the EVA grip... and as I have said elsewhere, either sold or given away all three of my old QB's.

I have a bias toward the ergo handle... because when I am in the surf... hopping up on the board quickly... it is very apparent that you are holding the paddle properly (the blade direction) by the way the ergo handle fits in your hand.  Also, some of my boards are a bit tippy, and once I am up... I have to grab a paddle full of water in order to stay up... it is critical that I am certain that I have the right side of my paddle blade facing forward...

Having said that, the paddle I just ordered from Ralphie is with the extended ergo T... (Molokai) because I LOVE the adjustability of that handle.

I haven't done the sandpaper thing... just because my paddle is so purdy!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: CMC on February 19, 2012, 08:11:29 PM
Yes. I must agree.  My QB EVA Handle is torn, luckily not anywhere where my hand rubs.  But torn none the less.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NickFL on February 20, 2012, 08:08:16 AM
I agree that the EVA foam handles are nice until they get chewed up.  Have you guys tried experimenting with something like plastidip?

It's a spray can application that adds a rubbery type coating that is similar to the rubber handles on tools.  Might feel similar to the eva handles.  Not sure how durable it would be but it's cheap and can be redone.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on February 20, 2012, 08:26:04 AM
An extended palm handle whatever you call them would be nice.  I'm not a fan of these small handles.   Maybe I'm just used to the QB after 6 or so years but I find them more comfortable.  Or I guess I could buy a second   Molokai.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 20, 2012, 08:29:16 AM
Nickfl beat me to it. I was thinking of the stuff in cans you can dip a tool into to rubber coat the grip but didn't know the name.
(http://www.plastidip.com/img/photos/plasti1.jpg)
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip (http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on February 20, 2012, 08:30:52 AM
I fumble the hand switch with EVA. Almost as clumsy as using gloves for me. I like a bare handle without the slippery finish. When I use palm style handles I need a little patch of grip. With the Ergo-T the grip is fine as-is.

The shaft still needs more grip to suit my taste. I'm back to using my old favorite grip from XM surf more. http://surfmorexm.com/content/clear-grip™-surfboard-traction (http://surfmorexm.com/content/clear-grip)

 This stuff is thin, light, and just the right amount of traction for the paddle shaft. Many other stick on sheets are either too aggressive or too thick and heavy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 20, 2012, 08:33:26 AM
I find there is only one place I like some padding and that's right where the paddle contacts my palm. For the rest of the handle a coating makes control a little less precise. When I was having an issue with a knot rising in my palm I stuck a corn plaster where the knot hit. It lasted a surprisingly long time. Now the knots are permanent and don't hurt anymore, so I skip the plaster.

I've also worn some of the sharkskin off my personal Ke Nalu paddles and gone back to hockey tape, though I did try Tim's approach with wax and found the sharkskin holds it really well. I looked at the sharkskin texture under 50X magnification--after daily use for six months the slightly rough edge of the spiral lap is now rounded off where my hands go. It's a tiny change, but enough to make the shaft slipperier. 

The bottom line is we're trying to make paddles that people can tune to suit themselves. Everyone has preferences and the paddle you love gets a lot of this kind of attention to make it even more personal. I don't know about you folks, but I get antsy swapping paddles with people. I've started carrying spares so I can let people try a paddle without giving them mine.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: adios pantalones on February 20, 2012, 08:42:01 AM
Not to hijack the paddle discussion,  but I like Gamma brand grip tape, I buy the tennis wrap, the white color. it stretches, forms to curves, can be wrapped as thick or thin to your taste.
Cheap and easily replaceable.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: adios pantalones on February 20, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
Not to hijack the paddle discussion,  but I like Gamma brand grip tape, I buy the tennis wrap, the white color. it stretches, forms to curves, can be wrapped as thick or thin to your taste.
Cheap and easily replaceable.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on February 20, 2012, 01:39:54 PM
I originally purchased a Maliko for racing, but ended up selling the race board, and am sort of cutting back on toys and such and liquidating some stuff, so i was deciding on whether to sell the Methane or the Ke Nalu. The Methane was my go to paddle in the surf and served me well for a long time, and the Maliko was just amazing as a race paddle, so I decided to take a chance, and sold the Methane so the Maliko is my only paddle. I had to cut about 3 inches off the shaft. For racing I had the standard shaft with the extended handle since I am tall and liked my racing paddle about 14 inches overhead, but I only go about 6 inches overhead for surfing (I'm 6'2). I have two other Ke Nalu handles, but stuck with the extended handle for versatility because I didn't know if my preference would change using the Ke Nalu in the surf. I set if up at 80 inches, and stuffed the extended handle as far as it would go into the handle. I have broken Kialoas in the past, and broken a couple Werner handles, so I think even though I am not using the extended handle in the extended position, I think the benefit is an even stringer handle, since the shaft of the extended handle is pretty far into the shaft.

I have the stiffest shaft in the standard length, and still had what I would consider a pretty fair amount of flex before i cut the shaft and had the extended handle pretty far out of the shaft, but it stiffened up quite a bit after cutting only 3 inches off the shaft and sinking that extended handle pretty far into the shaft. I like the flex so far.

Took ti out in the surf this morning, and immediately regretted parting with my methane. The first stoke felt like the blade might be a bit big, The surf was junky but had some size and energy behind it, so it wasn't easy getting out. I sort of felt the same way i felt with my spanker, like paddling through mashed potatoes. I made it out unscathed and never fell in, and once I was outside I remembered that when I was using the paddle for racing you sort of have to let this paddle do the work for you. The paddle almost sort of dictates the pull if that makes any sense. Once I remembered this it became much easier. I just sort of matched my pull with the the feedback I got from the paddle. With the Methane I could do whatever I wanted and the paddle was happy, but I discovered something about the Maliko that was an added benefit. The Ke Nalu sort of has a 'gas pedal' to it. When I was trying to get into a wave late and really cranked hard on this paddle it actually responded like stepping on the gas and gave me a little extra oomph. I know it sounds weird, but what I noticed with this paddle is you either paddle slow and smooth and let the paddle do the work, or you crank hard on it and it breaks free and takes off, but there was no middle ground. I don't think this will be a problem though, and will just take some getting used to.

I need to get used to the fact that the Ke Nalu, because the blade is wider and shorter than the Methane, has more resistance in the water (even though the Maliko has 2 sq in. less in surface area compared to the Methane). But as I get used to this this may work in my favor. I noticed that I did have more control and was able to spin around a bit quicker and my paddling even felt a touch more efficient. I never had issues with flutter with the Methane, and the Maliko is rock solid with no flutter as well.

Overall, I would almost have to say that the Methane is a more forgiving paddle, but the Maliko may be a more efficient paddle, as long as you are willing to take the time and understand how it works and what it likes. Once you get the Ke Nalu dialed and figure out it's few quirks (and I don't mean quirks in a bad way, i'm just referring to dialing in your catch, pull, etc.) it's actually a fun paddle in the surf. As long as my shoulders don't get torqued (which is why i went from a Spanker, to a Shaka Pu'u, then to a Methane) I think I will be very happy with the Ke Nalu in the surf. We will see how it holds up given my track record with breaking paddles (I do not abuse them, take care of them, don't throw them around, and actually keep mine inside the house when I'm not using it, btw).

It came down to parting with the Methane or the Maliko, and kept the Maliko because I didn't feel confident having just one paddle if it's a Kialoa since I've snapped them in half in the past and the Ke Nalu's seem pretty tough. We will see!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 20, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
Please keep us posted on your progress, it's a pretty interesting situation. I'd swap blades with you and get you a Wiki, but I suspect in a little time you'll be pretty happy with the Maliko. I've just gone from a Maliko to a Molokai for surfing. I didn't like it at first, had to leave my Maliko home to stop defaulting to it, but I'm very happy with the end result. Just as you say, when I relax and just paddle at the cadence and power the blade "prefers" it's effortless. If I push it, it's too much, and I get pooped out. But when I REALLY push it making a quick turn or digging for a wave, the board leaps into the wave.

One piece of advice, work on making a very short pull way out in front and then recovering and giving another pull. It's very counter-intuitive, you'll have to catch a hundred or so waves to feel completely confident doing it, but both for downwind and for surfing, little pitty-pat stokes that look weak and ineffective will pull you into stuff you'd never make otherwise. A function of the very early catch. Probably applies 70-80 percent of the power of the full stroke in the first ten inches. So it's 70... 70...70 instead of 100.

And yeah, they're plenty tough, even though they look fragile. I've beaten the crap out of mine, and fallen on it numerous times. Knock on wood, they've taken all I can give them.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ODJ on February 20, 2012, 03:27:42 PM
Please keep us posted on your progress, it's a pretty interesting situation. I'd swap blades with you and get you a Wiki, but I suspect in a little time you'll be pretty happy with the Maliko. I've just gone from a Maliko to a Molokai for surfing. I didn't like it at first, had to leave my Maliko home to stop defaulting to it, but I'm very happy with the end result. Just as you say, when I relax and just paddle at the cadence and power the blade "prefers" it's effortless. If I push it, it's too much, and I get pooped out. But when I REALLY push it making a quick turn or digging for a wave, the board leaps into the wave.

One piece of advice, work on making a very short pull way out in front and then recovering and giving another pull. It's very counter-intuitive, you'll have to catch a hundred or so waves to feel completely confident doing it, but both for downwind and for surfing, little pitty-pat stokes that look weak and ineffective will pull you into stuff you'd never make otherwise. A function of the very early catch. Probably applies 70-80 percent of the power of the full stroke in the first ten inches. So it's 70... 70...70 instead of 100.

And yeah, they're plenty tough, even though they look fragile. I've beaten the crap out of mine, and fallen on it numerous times. Knock on wood, they've taken all I can give them.

Thanks, Bill! I'll stick with the Maliko blade for a bit and see how it goes, and really appreciate the offer. I will definitely keep you posted on the progress. I NEVER experienced any fatigue or shoulder pain when I used the Maliko for open ocean and flat water training, but using the paddle for surfing is a different beast. I use those 'pitty-patty' stokes all the time getting into waves when I surf!  Will let you know how it goes!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 24, 2012, 02:44:39 PM
OK...I bought the el-cheapo 12v blow dryer to make doing on the road demos and paddle component combinations possible. It didn't develop enough heat at the nozzle to melt the glue sufficiently then started smoking near the coil and died.... ;D

Just ordered the Powerhunt
http://www.power-huntstore.com/12_Volt_Hair_Dryers_s/59.htm (http://www.power-huntstore.com/12_Volt_Hair_Dryers_s/59.htm)
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/qtfe3.p2f3c/v/vspfiles/photos/PNP-210SK-1.jpg?1318411393)

Direct connection to the battery with a fused power strip for more power. Looks promising even if a lot more expensive.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 24, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
I like this copy:
perfect for travel, camping, boating, disaster situations

Damn that tsunami, now my hair is wet. Good thing I have a 12volt hair dryer.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 24, 2012, 04:06:50 PM
LOL...and I don't even have hair!

Was thinking it might help warm gloves and booties during those winter breaks thawing out.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on February 24, 2012, 04:26:12 PM
LOL...and I don't even have hair!
But now you can tell people you had a full head of it until you used your industrial-strength blow dryer on it. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 24, 2012, 06:46:29 PM
LOL...and I don't even have hair!
But now you can tell people you had a full head of it until you used your industrial-strength blow dryer on it. 
Hhhmmm....gives me an idea.....Bill you need to come up with some hot glue hair....maybe as good as this?
(http://www.politicalruminations.com/images/republicans/donald-trump-bad-hair.jpg)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 24, 2012, 07:52:12 PM
NO.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on February 26, 2012, 10:24:50 PM
I put together the x-tuf tonight. I'm surprised by how light it is. Lighter than anything else I've had besides the full carbon Ke Nalus. Still a real nice paddle. I think I'm going to like the flex of this shaft too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 27, 2012, 10:34:33 AM
It's great for surf. Stores a bunch of energy. When you get the timing down it's a wave catapult.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: river on February 27, 2012, 11:06:30 PM
Just to set the record straight.  It was my extended handle on the Maliko paddle that broke.  I believe it was because I had heated it and then cranked on it with a buddy a few times trying to adjust it when all I had was a ghetto hair dryer in a hotel room. we cracked it and I just finished it off in the race.   It snapped 2 minutes into the race just as I started to catch some real bump and get some power strokes in.  It was only the top 6-8 inches so it wasnt a big deal. It snapped right at the joint where the ferrule goes into the shaft.  The paddles have been so bomber and some say I'm hard on paddles.  The Wiki has withstood some solid poundings too and hasn't missed a beat.  At 72 inches it's the lightest paddle I've ever used. Gotta be around 14oz maybe less.  I love the superflex shaft and tiny blade on Wiki for surfing and the Maliko is the ticket for racing 14-UL.  Nothing else out there has the Feel of a Ke nalu because of the pre-preg carbon blade IMO.  Stoked:)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on February 28, 2012, 12:06:28 AM
Dan, that was a crazy video of you with the broken handle! The KeNalu paddles are awesome in those strong headwind conditions, especially choked up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 28, 2012, 08:54:06 AM
Dan,
I'll ask Carmen to give you a couple of handles when your back in Hood River.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NXLVL on February 28, 2012, 09:41:45 AM
Just to set the record straight.  It was my extended handle on the Maliko paddle that broke.  I believe it was because I had heated it and then cranked on it with a buddy a few times trying to adjust it when all I had was a ghetto hair dryer in a hotel room. we cracked it and I just finished it off in the race.   It snapped 2 minutes into the race just as I started to catch some real bump and get some power strokes in.  It was only the top 6-8 inches so it wasnt a big deal. It snapped right at the joint where the ferrule goes into the shaft.  The paddles have been so bomber and some say I'm hard on paddles.  The Wiki has withstood some solid poundings too and hasn't missed a beat.  At 72 inches it's the lightest paddle I've ever used. Gotta be around 14oz maybe less.  I love the superflex shaft and tiny blade on Wiki for surfing and the Maliko is the ticket for racing 14-UL.  Nothing else out there has the Feel of a Ke nalu because of the pre-preg carbon blade IMO.  Stoked:)
dan,   didnt want to stir things up with the vid.... jus wanted to show the guys how much power you put into each stroke compared to the recreational paddler. by the way.... what are your thoughts on the vertical top hand grip you were forced into. i know you said your back was tourch by the end of the race.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 28, 2012, 10:29:15 AM
NX--no worries, stuff breaks, and we're open about it. Our paddles are strong, but light. There's always a tradeoff between those two.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 29, 2012, 07:09:55 PM
Two days ago I did a Maliko run with a Molokai that was three inches too short. Blew up my shoulders. Switched back to my Maliko with the proper length. What a difference. My shoulders feel great. My biceps are a little sore, but it's their turn.

I think length is the most critical element, though blade size is important too. I can surf all day with a Molokai and feel fine, but for downwind I like the Maliko. Boyum likes the Molokai and has no problems with it. Devin has a Molokai and as everyone has probably seen, absolutely rocks with it.

I'm going to pull the handle on my Molokai out to my downwind length (which is an inch shorter than race length) and see what happens.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on February 29, 2012, 09:21:08 PM
 Bill--why do you use an inch shorter for downwind than for racing?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on February 29, 2012, 11:21:58 PM
When you're doing a downwinder you're going fast. One of the reasons Boyum shovels so much is just that even if you plan to pull your paddle early the speed carries it back past your feet. Also the balance requirements make it hard to do a huge reach and not all that productive. A little shorter helps you get the paddle out quicker. Might even be two inches shorter than flatwater length.

I know that all sounds fiddly, but for me the difference between sore shoulders and shoulders feeling fine is an inch or two.  Oddly enough too short kicks them up too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 04, 2012, 10:02:35 PM
I need to play around with length a bit. My shoulders are toast from yesterday. Partially because I haven't been out in a while but I also think mine might have been too short.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 04, 2012, 11:09:11 PM
I'd like to know more about how this works. I took out a competitors paddle today, and it fired up my shoulders in no time, which was reassuring. When I first started using the Ke Nalu paddles they were like medicine for my shoulders. I think I've gotten used to them not hurting, so when they do ache some it's obvious. My one hour experiment with a competitors paddle left me with some seriously painful shoulders.

I think the early catch is the reason the length is critical. If a blade has a lot of offset there isn't much of the blade that's vertical when you first put the blade in the water. The Ke Nalu has a fairly large percentage of the blade near vertical as soon as the blade enters the water. So you're pulling against resistance right from the beginning.

I need to ask someone who understand biomechanics why shaft length would be critical in that situation. Maybe Balance Fit? He seems to know his stuff.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JF808 on March 05, 2012, 08:20:34 AM
does ke'nalu plan on making Outrigger canoe paddles?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 05, 2012, 09:23:20 AM
Yup. I made one for myself from one of our Molokai blades. I like it a lot but it's not ready for primetime. We need a more tapered shaft for it to be optimal. Working on it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 05, 2012, 12:12:19 PM
I'd like to know more about how this works. I took out a competitors paddle today, and it fired up my shoulders in no time, which was reassuring. When I first started using the Ke Nalu paddles they were like medicine for my shoulders. I think I've gotten used to them not hurting, so when they do ache some it's obvious. My one hour experiment with a competitors paddle left me with some seriously painful shoulders.

I think the early catch is the reason the length is critical. If a blade has a lot of offset there isn't much of the blade that's vertical when you first put the blade in the water. The Ke Nalu has a fairly large percentage of the blade near vertical as soon as the blade enters the water. So you're pulling against resistance right from the beginning.

I need to ask someone who understand biomechanics why shaft length would be critical in that situation. Maybe Balance Fit? He seems to know his stuff.
Your question makes me think how there hasn't been a ton of discussion about how the "best" technique might be different depending on the paddle.  People know it varies depending on conditions, paddler, distance and speed you want to go, etc. but not so much based on the paddle.

So with most paddles compared to yours, you reach, pull without a lot of resistance until the blade moves back a few inches and gets more vertical.   Or if you are getting a lot of resistiance, you're pushing water down instead of back.  With yours, you get more catch further forward.  So do you use the same length paddle, and reach the same, and that means you're avoiding the first few inches of less efficient backwards travel that other blades have until their blades get vertical?

Or do you use a longer paddle to get your Ke Nalu blade even further forward, because your blade grabs more water sooner?  If so, that seems like you're saying there's some advantage to paddling so that you don't have full resistance the first few inches of your stroke.   Maybe that's true, because maybe it's good for the blade to have a chance to shed bubbles and get deep before it gets more vertical and you're applying full force.  I don't know.

And it seems like the opposite might happen at the end of the stroke---your paddle starts scooping water sooner.  So does that all mean that with a Ke Nalu paddle, your stroke should be the same length as other paddles, but you enter and release further forward in relationship to your board? 

It does seem to me like when a Ke Nalu blade enters the water--unless you are using a longer shaft to make it enter further forward than other paddles--your body should be in the same position--bent and pulling hard--sooner with a Ke Nalu. 

So it's complicated because you have the variables of how far forward the blade enters, how long the shaft is, and your body position.  It seems like the first question to answer (people may know the answer)  is whether with the Ke Nalu, you're entering the water at the same point forward, and getting more catch sooner, or whether you try to enter even further forward than with other paddles.

I realize I didn't answer the question and probably made it sound more confusing....
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: surfcowboy on March 05, 2012, 12:53:34 PM
Mike, I think you're onto something. For me, this seems logical that the catch of a paddle is as important as the length/reach.

I'd like to hear more on this, maybe it's a separate thread since it would address how individuals stroke works better or worse with a paddle design. I too have seen guys on this thread talk about how they had to "learn" the paddle. That's not good or bad but it's interesting.

It seems that the Kenalu might be enforcing better/matching technique by rewarding it with performance. Thoughts?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on March 05, 2012, 05:12:49 PM
I have definitely altered my stroke with the Kenalu.  Using a qb, the paddle was still "oblique" at the catch and I would have to cock it forward to get it vertical before applying real force.  With the kenalu, I have real engagement right at the catch and can apply force immediately.  I find I still mix up my strokes to avoid fatiguing one set of muscles.  I have gone one inch longer than my qb and now am at 85".  I have no desire to go short.  I am on flat water and can use the reach. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 06, 2012, 03:13:47 PM
We been Bongo'ed. It's pretty cool, anyone looking to transact and ship products internationally should take a look at this. And on the customer side you can consolidate your own shipments, so if you were buying a wetsuit from O'niel, a paddle from us and a snowboard package from Wiredsports you can ship everything to their Florida address and they consolidate the shipment into one package. Even for a single product it's much, much cheaper than UPS or DHL. Many thanks to Henrik F for tipping us to these guys and being the test case.

The integration on our website is very slick too. Didn't take any major effort to set up. Take a look, it's on Ke Nalu.

We're probably going to use this to support UK and European dealers rather than trying to add distributors there. It looks like it will be much more practical than trying to deal with four or five distributors to cover Europe. We could be wrong, as usual we're feeling our way blindly here, but it looks great so far.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on March 06, 2012, 08:54:52 PM
We been Bongo'ed. It's pretty cool, anyone looking to transact and ship products internationally should take a look at this. And on the customer side you can consolidate your own shipments, so if you were buying a wetsuit from O'niel, a paddle from us and a snowboard package from Wiredsports you can ship everything to their Florida address and they consolidate the shipment into one package. Even for a single product it's much, much cheaper than UPS or DHL. Many thanks to Henrik F for tipping us to these guys and being the test case.



 Thanks! :)

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JF808 on March 07, 2012, 10:55:11 PM
Finally got me a Kenalu paddle!! "maliko" cant wait to get in the water to sample this bad boy
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Alkasazi on March 09, 2012, 10:28:33 AM
good excuse to get in the water on warm & sunny Hood River spring day - got to borrow a friend's Maliko yesterday for a test drive. very nice paddle! great catch & pull, very quiet in the water. fits my style of paddling very nicely. I was quite impressed with the paddle.

one bent shaft Werner Nitro going up for sale if anyone is interested....
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 09, 2012, 12:24:12 PM
Bill tried to use some hot glue on a competitors paddle to put a handle on. I wasn't thinking when I gave him the hot glue--I know it won't work. You need a slightly different design for the glue to work effectively. The ferrule has to be slightly oval. Particularly dumb of me given that I was working on this article that explains a number of our design choices: http://www.kenalu.com/ke-nalu-elite-paddles/ (http://www.kenalu.com/ke-nalu-elite-paddles/)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on March 09, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
Finally got me a Kenalu paddle!! "maliko" cant wait to get in the water to sample this bad boy


JF, your friends better watch out gonna move from 3rd to 1st on the next race! Don't make the mistake I made by leaving it too long! With the increased catch and efficiency of the KeNalu, I switched from 13 inches over to 11 over.  Much less shoulder strain, easier crossover, and still able to dig deep and work core muscles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on March 09, 2012, 03:28:26 PM
Interesting how most people started at a length which was longer than their old paddles and are now going shorter. Love the abality to fine tune the paddles
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on March 09, 2012, 03:59:30 PM
OK PB, I'll bite.

I'm in the UK. How can I get one of your paddles, and how much will it cost either with or without this new Bongo arrangement?

We pay 20% sales tax on anything coming into the UK from the USA, and that 20% is calculated on the price of goods *plus* the carriage costs.

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on March 09, 2012, 04:11:40 PM
Just bought another Molokai from Ralphie at SUP-Position.

This time with the adjustable handle.

Been slammed, so he brought it to my office.  For free.

Talked quiver for a few minutes before I had to rush him out the door.

Super cool dude.  Amazing service, as always!

Can't wait to use that paddle for my mile time this weekend.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on March 09, 2012, 04:18:28 PM
Bill tried to use some hot glue on a competitors paddle to put a handle on. I wasn't thinking when I gave him the hot glue--I know it won't work. You need a slightly different design for the glue to work effectively. The ferrule has to be slightly oval.

Just to pick up on that - I've used hot glue on a couple of non-Ke Nalu paddles and it's held up fine but consistent with PB's observation both have ferrules that aren't quite round (they look to have been "hand shaped" a little with a file ex-factory).



And Area10 - the 'adjustable' is a genuine innovation. I have it on both my KN's and wouldn't go back for quids.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 09, 2012, 07:05:36 PM
OK PB, I'll bite.

I'm in the UK. How can I get one of your paddles, and how much will it cost either with or without this new Bongo arrangement?

We pay 20% sales tax on anything coming into the UK from the USA, and that 20% is calculated on the price of goods *plus* the carriage costs.

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.

PM me the name of your local dealer. I'm getting ready to do a push to get some UK dealers. Going to do the UK first since I can't ramp production very quickly. It will probably be the most reasonable way to get one.

Of course you can order direct. Click on the Bongo button on the site and it will tell you what the likely freight will be. The tough part is that it's going to be the same freight for one or five since these aren't heavy, just bulky.

The shipping box size is 69" X 4" X 10" and the weight is 4 pounds.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on March 10, 2012, 04:47:25 AM

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.
[/quote]

Hello Area10. Sent you an email. Though I forgot to mention that we've got 25% tax on the total in Sweden. (Value and shipping and... everything  :'( )

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on March 12, 2012, 04:42:49 AM
Has anyone experienced their fingers/hands going numb when using one of these paddles?

I'm using mine for distance paddling and every single time I have used it my fingers start going numb on both hands.  I've tried every variation of holding the paddle, holding it as lightly as possible and barely pulling the paddle through the water does not seem to have any effect for me. 

I think the narrow shaft is the cause.  I switched to my Quickblade the other day and did not have any numbness paddling the same distance nor have I ever experienced it previously.

I guess I will try putting a pad on the shaft to see if that helps.  Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on March 12, 2012, 05:03:03 AM
Has anyone experienced their fingers/hands going numb when using one of these paddles?

I'm using mine for distance paddling and every single time I have used it my fingers start going numb on both hands.  I've tried every variation of holding the paddle, holding it as lightly as possible and barely pulling the paddle through the water does not seem to have any effect for me. 

I think the narrow shaft is the cause.  I switched to my Quickblade the other day and did not have any numbness paddling the same distance nor have I ever experienced it previously.

I guess I will try putting a pad on the shaft to see if that helps.  Any other suggestions?

With windsurfing and kitesurfing, numb hands means you've got some carpel tunnel coming on. The damage was already done long before this. Windsurfers and kitesurfers moved to skinner grips to solve the issue. It used to be a big issue.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on March 12, 2012, 05:29:10 AM

With windsurfing and kitesurfing, numb hands means you've got some carpel tunnel coming on. The damage was already done long before this. Windsurfers and kitesurfers moved to skinner grips to solve the issue. It used to be a big issue.

I'm not sure I follow your logic.  The QB paddle has a larger diameter, but windsurfers and kitesurfers went to a skinnier grip to solve the problem.  Here the skinnier grip is the problem.  I've been paddling for something like 6 years and never had this occur ever, unless the skinny shaft is the trigger.  I've also used a Kialoa paddle without this issue as well.

Maybe my fingers and the skinny shaft are not compatible.  It could the skinny shaft focuses too much pressure on a single spot on my fingers, but who knows.  I feel a lot of pressure directly on the bones on my fingers when paddling with it to the point where they become a little sore, which I do not experience with my other paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on March 12, 2012, 05:39:53 AM
Definitely experiment with grips.  My favorite is cork tape for bicycle handle bars.  Don't use foam because the squishy-ness will cause your hands to tire.  I haven't found any other grips that are durabe, light, and waterproof.  I'd be interested to hear any other suggestions for grips.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bean on March 12, 2012, 05:47:39 AM
jd, when you switch sides, do you get immediate relief from pain in the hand that you move to the top grip or does the pain continue?  And, are you using a relaxed grip on the shaft?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on March 12, 2012, 06:26:17 AM

I'm not sure I follow your logic.  

Numb hands and carpel tunnel is an overuse injury. With windsurfing and kitesurfing, a fat grip requires you to squeeze to hold on. While a skinny grip allows you to just hook your fingers and relax. Not having to SQUEEZE to hold on, is such an issue, that during Winter, when gloves and mittens are required, Dakine produced palm-less mittens for wind sports. They actually cut the neoprene out of the palm. The rubber only covered the back of the hand. Some kiters use latex dish washing gloves, just to avoid increased grip diameter. Increased diameters will blow up your forearms and hands.

Therefore, I'm guessing you've got some mental image making your feel uncomfortable adjusting to the skinning grip and you're getting overuse stress. Some kiters complained about the adjustment when the first skinny grips hit the market, but today it's standard.

7/8" grip is now the industry standard for kiting. Windsurfers only wish they could get that skinny. Required stiffness prevents it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 12, 2012, 07:32:29 AM
Numb fingers used to be a problem for me with any paddle. I could make it clear up while paddling by wiggling my fingers in between strokes. Oh, great, one more thing to remember, but you only do it while your fingers are acting up.

It's pretty much cleared up for me using the Ke Nalu paddles. I'm certainly no expert, but my experience was that it was an issue that went away when I paid attention to clearing up the symptoms. In other words it got worse if I just soldiered on, but once I started doing the wiggling fingers thing the whole issue cleared up and hasn't been as common a problem. My doctor said the soft tissue probably adjusted, but he's no PT expert either.

I use one layer of hockey tape in the grip area, mostly because the sharkskin texture doesn't work well with sunblock residue on your hands, and I don't need reasons to avoid using sunblock. But a little more grip will make it easy to relax your hand more and it will give you some cushion
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on March 12, 2012, 07:50:01 AM
But a little more grip will make it easy to relax your hand more and it will give you some cushion

Good point. I don't know how anybody paddles without better traction on the shaft. I have to use abrasive traction.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on March 12, 2012, 09:36:41 AM
At last I've tested my paddles. I went out with my Maliko for the first time today and the Wiki was out for the second time. The weather was quite calm in the beginning but it started blowing when I got 500 meters out. I had the Maliko.
What I can say at first is that I got really punished by the paddle for not getting it out of the water fast enough to do my recovery. The Wiki is much more forgiving there. Probably has to do with the size of the blade. It was also much easier to use the Wiki in the wind because it didn't get caught by it like the  Maliko did.

Both paddles were dead silent and I do need some more hours with the Wiki before I upgrade myself to the Maliko. I thought that the winters indoor excercising had kept me fit and ready to take on the paddling right away. How fooled I was... When I was paddling with the Maliko I even thought that I should cut off an inch straight away when I got home but when I got the other one out with the same length there was no problem at all. Just me.

Next time I will not wear a full wetsuit either because that thing squeezed my upper arms a lot. So next time, no matter how cold it is, I'll wear my shorty with no arms and a loose jacket.

Compared to my other full carbon paddle I was really fast with the Wiki and with some serious training I'll probly be even faster with the Maliko.

I love the thinner shaft with the sharkskin. About that hockey tape, is it the sticky one you all use or the cloth like type?

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 12, 2012, 10:22:53 AM
I use the sticky hockey tape and put a little surfwax on it at first because the adhesive comes through the cloth as you paddle and it gets TOO sticky--actually makes transitions hard--you can't let go of the paddle. A little wax at first mitigates that, and after a week it's fine without.

Everyone seems to be going about an inch shorter than their standard race paddle with a Maliko. The Wiki seems a little different, some folks are going even longer than their usual and liking the effect. Molokai I haven't completely figured out yet but an inch or two shorter than typical race paddle feels best to me.

Hard to believe that three paddles with an identical design are so completely different.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 12, 2012, 10:43:00 AM
I put some tape on last summer to relieve slipperiness on hot days, but found that what I really like about it is that I can feel exactly how far down my hand is.   It reminds me to get my hand low enough, and to be symmetrical in where I grip with each hand (tended before to grip higher with my left hand). 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 12, 2012, 11:42:06 AM
At last I've tested my paddles. I went out with my Maliko for the first time today and the Wiki was out for the second time. The weather was quite calm in the beginning but it started blowing when I got 500 meters out. I had the Maliko.
What I can say at first is that I got really punished by the paddle for not getting it out of the water fast enough to do my recovery. The Wiki is much more forgiving there. Probably has to do with the size of the blade. It was also much easier to use the Wiki in the wind because it didn't get caught by it like the  Maliko did.

Make sure you're feathering the paddle as you lift, it's best to do your feathering with your lower hand by twisting your wrist inward while you're pushing up. Takes some practice, but if you feather, both the Maliko and the Molokai jump out of the water--they actually feel like they're pushing, and they might be. It's a little less pronounced with the Wiki.

Dan Gavere, who is one hell of a paddler, told me you should feather every stroke, always. Dave Kalama says the same thing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on March 12, 2012, 12:10:48 PM
At last I've tested my paddles. I went out with my Maliko for the first time today and the Wiki was out for the second time. The weather was quite calm in the beginning but it started blowing when I got 500 meters out. I had the Maliko.
What I can say at first is that I got really punished by the paddle for not getting it out of the water fast enough to do my recovery. The Wiki is much more forgiving there. Probably has to do with the size of the blade. It was also much easier to use the Wiki in the wind because it didn't get caught by it like the  Maliko did.

Make sure you're feathering the paddle as you lift, it's best to do your feathering with your lower hand by twisting your wrist inward while you're pushing up. Takes some practice, but if you feather, both the Maliko and the Molokai jump out of the water--they actually feel like they're pushing, and they might be. It's a little less pronounced with the Wiki.

Dan Gavere, who is one hell of a paddler, told me you should feather every stroke, always. Dave Kalama says the same thing.

Hello!
I do feather the blade but this was my first with the Maliko and it caught me red handed for not pulling the paddle out of the water fast enough. It is loads easier to get the Wiki out just in front of the foot but there is something with the length of the Maliko (or me  :-[ ) I've read a lot of Kalama's info and I'll try to find Dan Gavere too.

Cheers!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on March 12, 2012, 01:12:49 PM
jd, when you switch sides, do you get immediate relief from pain in the hand that you move to the top grip or does the pain continue?  And, are you using a relaxed grip on the shaft?

Bean, I'd have to pay more attention, but I think yes when I shift my hand from shaft to grip it goes away.

Yesterday, I was just holding the shaft by hooking my fingers not squeezing at all.  Likewise with the handle, not really even holding it; I am more or less just pushing on the handle.  I still much prefer the wider palm type grips over the thinner ones.

How bout an extended Ergo handle Bill?

Maybe I will have to play around with adjusting where exactly the shaft is contacting my fingers as in right on the joint versus the "meaty" part (as Pono calls it) part of my fingers in between the joints.  The cork sounds like it's worth a try as well.  I've got one of those C4 grips laying around that I was thinking about using.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bean on March 12, 2012, 01:36:55 PM
Could it be that you are tensing your hand when you hook your fingers?  In otherwords, not gripping the shaft but maintaing a ridgid curl (a hook) with your fingers through the entire stroke.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 12, 2012, 07:44:51 PM
Yesterday, I was just holding the shaft by hooking my fingers not squeezing at all.  Likewise with the handle, not really even holding it; I am more or less just pushing on the handle.  I still much prefer the wider palm type grips over the thinner ones.

How bout an extended Ergo handle Bill?

Maybe I will have to play around with adjusting where exactly the shaft is contacting my fingers as in right on the joint versus the "meaty" part (as Pono calls it) part of my fingers in between the joints.  The cork sounds like it's worth a try as well.  I've got one of those C4 grips laying around that I was thinking about using.

Don't use the C4 grip--too big. Try the cork first.

A few years ago I built up the T handle on my old kialoa Shaka Pu'u with some blue foam and then covered it with EVA from a yoga mat. Not pretty, but I made it to fit my hand exactly. I doubt we'll make an extended Ergo, the Ergo T is our most popular handle. But I'll look at the bits I have and see if I can put something together.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on March 12, 2012, 11:52:25 PM
I will go pickup some cork at the bike shop.  Looks like it comes in some pretty colors:

(http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Motosport/CIN-T05-_sw1_Yellow-Red?$thumbnail$)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Coops on March 14, 2012, 11:41:12 AM
Hi Bill,
Have you considered offering the various paddle blades for sale a la cart?  For someone who already has a Ke Nalu or two, this could be an interesting way to have multiple paddles.  I suppose one could get by with just a single shaft and handle set up, while swapping out different blades.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 14, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
We're working on it, but it represents a substantial inventory challenge, and the dealers we've talked to about it are not enthusiastic, not so much because of the added inventory as the added complexity. Still, I think it's a real advantage for our paddles since we're currently the only company that could do it. You can buy some paddles as components, but they are not designed to be assembled with hot glue. They need the extra strength of permanent epoxy.

We'll be addressing the issue shortly and coming up with a solution. It might be that the best way to present it is as repair parts rather than something dealers would have to participate in. The way our eCommerce system works, dealers automatically get their discount on anything we sell, so they could choose how they wanted to use parts once we make them available.

I think it's great to have one shaft and several blades. Even better to have two shafts with different flexes and a couple of blades. I mix and match all the time. Diane  and Lane might shoot me for talking about this before we have figured out the details, but I swap my 100Flex shaft for an xTuf shaft sometimes, just to give my arms and shoulders a rest. The xTuf shaft not only has more flex (it's about 70Flex) but it also flexes differently, with even more of the flex between upper and lower hands. I don't like it as much as the 100Flex Elite shaft for everyday paddling or racing, but as a break when I've overdone it, it's  black advil.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 14, 2012, 06:35:39 PM
I'm definitely going to want to carry components ala carte. Once you have the repair components setup I'll want to keep a mix available. I want folks to feel the difference in handles, shafts and blades and then I'll build them one on the spot. If they want an additional blade...great. I think it's a huge selling point. Having an extended handle is great, having an extended handle and a couple of blades for different uses.....awesome.

I paddled the xTuf for the 1st time Sunday. Just an easy short cruise with Supthecreek so he could check out the volume of my 9-8. Feels soft after paddling the 100 flex. Definitely going to be the go to paddle the day after a hard surf session or long hard training paddle when my shoulders need some relief. I remember using the flexy fiberglass paddle you had on Maui last time I was there. We paddled hard at least 5-6 hours every day all that week and my shoulders never hurt.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: supthecreek on March 14, 2012, 07:12:30 PM
I had a great time meeting Bob(Stoneaxe) the other day. He was kind enough to meet up with me and let me Demo some of his quiver ;D

The Ke Nalu I tried was the added bonus! I loved the paddle. I've tried other brands but was never very impressed. The handle and shaft of the Ke Nalu felt great, but I really liked the way the blade felt on entry... very light and stable as you begin your stroke. It seemed like I had more control than I have felt with other paddles.

If there is no surf, I paddle almost everyday, which means even when it's very windy. I always paddle UPwind on the outbound leg and it is sometimes hard to move your paddle forward during gusts. The Dihedral blade seems move easier into the wind.
 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 14, 2012, 08:57:57 PM
Okay, we're going to get 'er done.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: waveslider on March 20, 2012, 02:43:51 PM
money does not equal brains. i guess simple instructions are too tough for someone who spends $300 on a paddle to follow.  pono, perhaps you should respond?

from PaddleSurfWarehouses FB page

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525977_10150743906894524_111332804523_11677210_1287628881_n.jpg)
"REALLY!!! WHAT PADDLE COMPANY SHIPS A PADDLE TO A CUSTOMER LIKE THIS? -We had a customer come in to the Dana Point store today bringing us this which they bought online from KeNalu's website. There was no epoxy and no instructions. Talk about service... Paddle seemed sorta cheap -nothing special- also like they just bought a box load from china and calls it a high end paddle. This paddle board business brings new surprises everyday."

http://www.facebook.com/paddlesurfwarehouse (http://www.facebook.com/paddlesurfwarehouse)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on March 20, 2012, 02:53:26 PM
money does not equal brains. i guess simple instructions are too tough for someone who spends $300 on a paddle to follow.  pono, perhaps you should respond?

from PaddleSurfWarehouses FB page

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525977_10150743906894524_111332804523_11677210_1287628881_n.jpg)
"REALLY!!! WHAT PADDLE COMPANY SHIPS A PADDLE TO A CUSTOMER LIKE THIS? -We had a customer come in to the Dana Point store today bringing us this which they bought online from KeNalu's website. There was no epoxy and no instructions. Talk about service... Paddle seemed sorta cheap -nothing special- also like they just bought a box load from china and calls it a high end paddle. This paddle board business brings new surprises everyday."

http://www.facebook.com/paddlesurfwarehouse (http://www.facebook.com/paddlesurfwarehouse)


This FB post, is it for real? Can't be, can it? I am having some language difficulties here.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 20, 2012, 02:57:32 PM
Yea, this is absurd.  The KeNalu website has videos and every way of communicating possible.  I can see the hot glue in the pic... right where it's supposed to be.  On the NFL today they have a signet called Come on Man!.  This is one of those.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: waveslider on March 20, 2012, 03:10:50 PM
looks like they pulled it down already. good. i mean its one thing for a customer to be slightly special, but its another for a supposed high end paddle board shop to not recognize the difference between a good paddle and a cheap one
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 20, 2012, 03:20:55 PM
It said a lot more about Paddle Surf Warehouse than Ke Nalu.  They might as well have written, "We're Paddle Surf Warehouse!  We're not aware of the paddle marketplace!  We can't tell the difference between a high-quality paddle and a cheap one even when we're holding it in our hands!  We even have difficulty writing grammatical sentences!".  To their credit they took it down.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: hbsteve on March 20, 2012, 04:29:01 PM
Wow.  Unbelievable.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 20, 2012, 04:43:33 PM
For some reason, the "Paddle seemed sorta cheap--nothing special--also like they just bought a box load from china and calls it a high end paddle" line reminds of Steve Martin in The Jerk: 

(http://wineintro.com/movies/jerk/jerk1.jpg)

Waiter: Would monsieur care for another bottle of the Chateau Latour?

Steve: Ah yes - but no more 1966. Let's splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you've got - this year! No more of this old stuff.

Waiter: Oui monsieur.

Steve: He doesn't realise he's dealing with sophisticated people here. [Steve realizes with horror what is on Marie's plate] Marie, now just stay calm. Stay calm. Don't look down, don't look down! Look up! Just keep your eyes up and keep them that way, OK.

Steve, to the waiter: Waiter - there are snails on her plate. Now get them out of here before she sees them! [to Marie] Look away, just look away, keep your eyes that way! [to the room of people, which is now watching the pair] You would think that in a fancy restaurant at these prices you could keep the snails off the food! There are so many snails there you can't even see the food! [to the waiter] Now take those away and bring us those melted cheese sandwich appetizers you talked me out of!

Waiter: Oui, monsieur.

Steve: Can you believe this? First, they didn't have the bamboo umbrellas for the wine, and now snails on the food! Two boobs! That's what he takes us for!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 20, 2012, 04:51:44 PM
Steve Martin at his finest.  Thanks for the reminder PDX. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PNelson on March 20, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
That was a highly odd move on PSW's part. Maybe mix in some Google time before you pop off.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JC50 on March 20, 2012, 05:57:55 PM
That was a highly odd move on PSW's part.

Agreed. Purchased a board from PSW 2 years ago and had a great experience with him so wouldn't expect above reaction from same place...who knows maybe a new, inexperienced employee put that out.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PNelson on March 20, 2012, 06:51:46 PM
Totally agree. Had great experience with Jeff at the Costa Mesa location. Maybe their FB guru was on a bender today.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on March 20, 2012, 06:53:04 PM
I have used PSW from the beginning and they are pretty good guys.  I even brought my first Ke Nalu to the Dana Point shop to use their fancy blade cutter.  They didn't call it cheap that day and were pretty impressed with the whole hot glue idea.  Mike Roberts and the boys at PSH try really hard... and like I said, are pretty good guys trying to scratch out a living in a tough retail environment.  Stinks that they posted it, but it says something that they pulled it quickly.  

It also speaks volumes that someone there was not aware of the Ke Nalu cult sweeping Standup Nation... something about knowing the competition and the available products.  They are pretty big into Quick Blade, but you've got to know the competition, especially the upstarts... it is what you do for a living, after all!

I am going to go ahead and given them a Mulligan.  But I am not the maker of the paddles whose product was challenged.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 20, 2012, 09:03:54 PM
A Mulligan for sure. It IS a weird way to ship a paddle--unique to us. I don't expect everyone to understand. Then again, I've never had anyone look at our parts and call them cheap. But they are right about one thing,  we really should include a brochure that explains how to put them together. The dealer versions have hang tags that at least direct people to the website for the video. We're running kind of hard and fast, but there's no good reason not to have directions in the box five months after we started shipping.

Another item for the To Do list.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: all~wet on March 20, 2012, 10:15:33 PM
I couldn't help but respond that I think Pono Bills response is dead on.

Rather than a knee-jerk, defensive response to criticism... which is easy to have with something one has put his blood sweat and tears into... he was gracious as well as intelligent enough to wait a few days to think about it, look past some of the other stuff and see a customer complaint that may have merit. A simple how to brochure sounds like a good idea, particularly for someone new to the sport or who is buying or receiving the paddle as a gift.

I already wanted to get my hands on one, but even more so now.  Good on-ya!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 21, 2012, 04:52:00 PM
I hope they didn't epoxy it for the customer.... :o ::)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 23, 2012, 08:35:58 PM
I was working on getting the components stuff up on the website when my hosting provider went down. Time to switch, these guys are losing it. But the component stuff should be all up tomorrow.

I also came up with a new "recipe" that I really love--Elite Molokai blade, xTuf shaft, and Extened Ergo-T handle. I'm so thrilled with it for downwinding that we're going to make it available as a standard paddle, though anyone that already has an Elite Molokai could just add an xTuf shaft to have that option. I'll describe it later, Diane is getting ready for me to take her to dinner and it's looking like the final touches have been added. My prep is easier, rinse the salt off, put on clean shorts and a semi-clean T-Shirt. It's 4th Friday in Paia tonight. Should be fun.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: paddlenorcal on March 23, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
I was working on getting the components stuff up on the website when my hosting provider went down. Time to switch, these guys are losing it. But the component stuff should be all up tomorrow.

I also came up with a new "recipe" that I really love--Elite Molokai blade, xTuf shaft, and Extened Ergo-T handle. I'm so thrilled with it for downwinding that we're going to make it available as a standard paddle, though anyone that already has an Elite Molokai could just add an xTuf shaft to have that option. I'll describe it later, Diane is getting ready for me to take her to dinner and it's looking like the final touches have been added. My prep is easier, rinse the salt off, put on clean shorts and a semi-clean T-Shirt. It's 4th Friday in Paia tonight. Should be fun.

Totally wish i was at 4th friday and not in california. enjoy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 24, 2012, 11:10:04 AM
Pono let me use his XTuf shaft yesterday on our downwind run.  I was blown away by the feel.  Softer than my shaft (I think I have the stiffest) but much more alive.   Trying to find the right word.  Spring, snap, whatever, it was amazingly powerful despite its flex.  And of course flex takes it easier on your shoulders.  Great combo with the Molokai.
Title: Re: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AJR on March 24, 2012, 04:24:55 PM
Pono let me use his XTuf shaft yesterday on our downwind run.  I was blown away by the feel.  Softer than my shaft (I think I have the stiffest) but much more alive.   Trying to find the right word.  Spring, snap, whatever, it was amazingly powerful despite its flex.  And of course flex takes it easier on your shoulders.  Great combo with the Molokai.

I have so many rude comments to make but I fear I'll offend someone so I'll just leave it alone...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on March 24, 2012, 05:14:24 PM
Nothing rude about it.  That's a whole lotta manlove for the shaft of a man in his 60's!!   :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 24, 2012, 08:21:32 PM
Wow, I just reread that and just about fell out of the chair. Hilarious!!

I'm keeping my shaft to myself from now on. I can't believe Randy and PDX weren't all over that. No, not the shaft, the post, err, that is, the comment, the thing HM typed.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 24, 2012, 09:09:05 PM
All the components are up on Ke Nalu. Except the Ergo-T handle, I need to get a decent photo of one. I don't have any here in Maui. Sold them all. Maybe Hi Tech still has one I can shoot.

Took forever to do, but it all works, and it works for dealers too. I think I gave myself a bit of eyestrain. I'm sure there's some errors, if you see anything let me know. This is going to play hob with our inventory system, but we'll work through it. It was just too good an idea to resist.

It's a unique thing, being able to radically change you paddle without buying a new one. Lots of tuning opportunities. Switching from a Wiki to a Molokai with just a hair dryer is pretty interesting. My personal paddles morph constantly. Nice to be able to offer that opportunity to our customers.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 25, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
Got the Molokai Downwinder paddle up too. A little $40 price break with the cheaper shaft (yeah, our 3K Twill shafts are expensive). I'm loving this thing. Whoda thunk it. Out in some small bumps yesterday and I caught everything I went for. I need to figure out what's going on here. I tried a 60 Flex with the Molokai blade, and it was good for surfing but didn't feel that good on downwinders. Might be something to do with the unidirectional carbon instead of the 3K twill.

Mine is a bit porky at 606 grams (21.3 ounces) with tape, that's still lighter than most Elite race paddles, but I feel that extra 100 grams in the flatwater, but as soon as you start going for swells it just doesn't matter.

I think it's the steady and extended power stored in the flex that makes it so good. It really feels like it's launching me. And instead of three strokes to get a big swell I think I'm only taking two and reaching further. Whatever, it's really different and effective. I'm going to have to make up another one of these to let people try it. I don't want to share mine.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on March 25, 2012, 11:49:02 AM
Looks terrific.  The component idea is very attractive.  It would nice to see the component weights as well.  I know some of them are scattered around the web site in other places.

A question is whether, on the whole paddle page, the xTuf shaft should be selectable as one of shaft options even for the (otherwise) Elite paddles (still at the Elite paddle price).  Seems like it might be an option for someone wanting more flex to protect their joints but not concerned about having a sturdier blade.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 25, 2012, 12:41:58 PM
Geeze, I posted my last on this thread late last night, reread this morning... incredible what a twist of the mind can conjure with a different light on it.  Had to laugh at myself.  More than slightly embarrassed.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 25, 2012, 01:50:53 PM
Geeze, I posted my last on this thread late last night, reread this morning... incredible what a twist of the mind can conjure with a different light on it.  Had to laugh at myself.  More than slightly embarrassed.
Makes me think that there's some truth to a statistic that I just read that 69% of people can find something dirty in any sentence they read. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on March 25, 2012, 02:52:41 PM
What was that statistical %-age?  69?

C'mon, too easy.   ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jd on March 25, 2012, 04:30:05 PM
Geeze, I posted my last on this thread late last night, reread this morning... incredible what a twist of the mind can conjure with a different light on it.  Had to laugh at myself.  More than slightly embarrassed.

I wouldn't expect anything less from someone with the username "headmount" discussing preferences of shaft stiffness.   ::)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on March 25, 2012, 05:09:08 PM
OK PB, I'll bite.

I'm in the UK. How can I get one of your paddles, and how much will it cost either with or without this new Bongo arrangement?

We pay 20% sales tax on anything coming into the UK from the USA, and that 20% is calculated on the price of goods *plus* the carriage costs.

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.

PM me the name of your local dealer. I'm getting ready to do a push to get some UK dealers. Going to do the UK first since I can't ramp production very quickly. It will probably be the most reasonable way to get one.

Of course you can order direct. Click on the Bongo button on the site and it will tell you what the likely freight will be. The tough part is that it's going to be the same freight for one or five since these aren't heavy, just bulky.

The shipping box size is 69" X 4" X 10" and the weight is 4 pounds.

Hi PB,
I hope you will have a distributor in Spain soon. It looks like ordering one of your paddles using Bongo becomes quite expensive. For example, a shipment of Wiki (worth 375 USD) to Spain costs total of 656 USD with bongo. Which is about 495 Euros. On the other hand, a qb Kanaha Elite Race 8.3'' costs here around 360 Euros (about 475 USD).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 25, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Swapped paddles with a SUPper at Newport today. He has the same paddle I used to use and love. OMG!...my arms were tired late in the session but it felt like I might as well have been using a 2x4 with some plywood attached. I have to tell you Bill. I think you've made it impossible for anyone to switch back to anything else once they've been paddling a Ke Nalu for any length of time....not that they'll want to.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 25, 2012, 10:28:01 PM
OK PB, I'll bite.

I'm in the UK. How can I get one of your paddles, and how much will it cost either with or without this new Bongo arrangement?

We pay 20% sales tax on anything coming into the UK from the USA, and that 20% is calculated on the price of goods *plus* the carriage costs.

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.

PM me the name of your local dealer. I'm getting ready to do a push to get some UK dealers. Going to do the UK first since I can't ramp production very quickly. It will probably be the most reasonable way to get one.

Of course you can order direct. Click on the Bongo button on the site and it will tell you what the likely freight will be. The tough part is that it's going to be the same freight for one or five since these aren't heavy, just bulky.

The shipping box size is 69" X 4" X 10" and the weight is 4 pounds.

Hi PB,
I hope you will have a distributor in Spain soon. It looks like ordering one of your paddles using Bongo becomes quite expensive. For example, a shipment of Wiki (worth 375 USD) to Spain costs total of 656 USD with bongo. Which is about 495 Euros. On the other hand, a qb Kanaha Elite Race 8.3'' costs here around 360 Euros (about 475 USD).

We're working hard on it. We think we can reduce our distributor minimum quantity a bit to make it feasible to to ship direct to European countries instead of trying to have a central European distributor. . And since we don't ship finished goods (they must be assembled locally) the duties might be lower. It's priority one--getting distribution in all European countries. For some reason our paddles are like Jerry Lewis--even more popular outside the US. I can't believe how much email we get from Australia.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 25, 2012, 10:32:06 PM
Looks terrific.  The component idea is very attractive.  It would nice to see the component weights as well.  I know some of them are scattered around the web site in other places.

A question is whether, on the whole paddle page, the xTuf shaft should be selectable as one of shaft options even for the (otherwise) Elite paddles (still at the Elite paddle price).  Seems like it might be an option for someone wanting more flex to protect their joints but not concerned about having a sturdier blade.

Good idea, both of them. We'll do that. The Molokai Downwinder is exactly that, a Molokai with a xTuf shaft. I did a southside downwinder with mine today. I love the fricken' thing. It's wonderful. No reason not to do a Maliko and a Wiki Downwinder. I think we'll do that instead of making it a shaft option, just to keep it obvious. But the weight is a solid idea, I'll get that going.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 26, 2012, 01:08:46 AM
I now have a profound admiration for those who post on these paddle  oriented threads and choose words that don't sneak up on you like a blind alley.  I'll never use, starts with sh and ends with aft, again.   It's late and I'll stop now before I walk myself into another ambush of my own words.  But let me just say I'm stoked on KeNalu paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on March 26, 2012, 04:29:27 AM
I now have a profound admiration for those who post on these paddle  oriented threads and choose words that don't sneak up on you like a blind alley.  I'll never use, starts with sh and ends with aft, again.   It's late and I'll stop now before I walk myself into another ambush of my own words.  But let me just say I'm stoked on KeNalu paddles.

 Know what you mean head; Have to start using something like: stick, or rod, or pole... OMG! I can't think of anything to sub that doesn't have over/under-tones... "HELP"!!!   ;)          Paddle on,  JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on March 26, 2012, 04:46:40 AM
Bill,

I'd like to see a blade size between the Wiki and Maliko. Although the numbers indicate they are close in size, the power difference feels wide.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on March 26, 2012, 05:01:54 AM
I second DW's request for a blade of about 89-90 square inches.  Or for now, how about a template or trace pattern by which one could cut or grind down the Maliko to that size, keeping a Ke Nalu recommended shape.  I've cut down carbon, fiberglass, and plastic blades to my own liking and never had a problem.  Don't cut ones that are tipped with a different material (some have S-glass or ABS), and never cut near the foam core.  So why not -- we are already cutting shafts and gluing things together, so why not cut out a new blade pattern?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on March 26, 2012, 07:23:15 AM
I second DW's request for a blade of about 89-90 square inches.  Or for now, how about a template or trace pattern by which one could cut or grind down the Maliko to that size, keeping a Ke Nalu recommended shape.  I've cut down carbon, fiberglass, and plastic blades to my own liking and never had a problem.  Don't cut ones that are tipped with a different material (some have S-glass or ABS), and never cut near the foam core.  So why not -- we are already cutting shafts and gluing things together, so why not cut out a new blade pattern?

Maybe you could just get PB to send you the raw materials for a paddle and 20 youtubes on design & build techniques.  ;)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JimK on March 26, 2012, 09:44:51 AM
Bill,

I gotta second the difficulty going back to my favorite paddle after using the KeNalu. I tried it last Fri in a lesson I had. It was night and day

AMAZING PADDLES

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com (http://www.extremewindsurfing.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 26, 2012, 09:47:53 AM
I now have a profound admiration for those who post on these paddle  oriented threads and choose words that don't sneak up on you like a blind alley.  I'll never use, starts with sh and ends with aft, again.   It's late and I'll stop now before I walk myself into another ambush of my own words.  But let me just say I'm stoked on KeNalu paddles.

 Know what you mean head; Have to start using something like: stick, or rod, or pole... OMG! I can't think of anything to sub that doesn't have over/under-tones... "HELP"!!!   ;)          Paddle on,  JD

I don't know about all you guys posting about your posts. Seems like some kind of post fixation.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on March 26, 2012, 10:13:35 AM
Good one.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 26, 2012, 11:24:57 AM
We'll consider an intermediate jump, but the molds are really expensive and I'm not sure that area change is the issue. The Wiki blades are extremely light. The Maliko blades were the first mold we made. The elite blades from that mold come out about 230 grams. The Molokai blades are much bigger, but they come out at 250 grams--20 grams heavier. Wikis come out at 175 grams--55 grams lighter.

The jump in area is about equal between blades: 84, 95, 105  -- About 10 square inches. The weight change is 175, 230, 250  which is 55 grams and 20 grams difference. I think most of the difference in feel between the Wiki and the Maliko is swing weight. It takes no effort to recover a Wiki. It's spooky fast. I think that translates into a lower power feel. When we measure the deceleration for the Wiki blade vs Maliko it's about a ten percent difference, same jump as Maliko to Molokai. That's not a precise measurement since we don't currently have a way to directly measure the force applied to the shaft. But I try to pull them all about the same and we average a lot of strokes to get the decel number.

You really can't cut a Ke Nalu blade. Our blades are made differently, you'll get into the foam a lot more quickly than in a blade where the molds just come together with a wide margin. Our blades are shaped all the way to the edge--one reason they flow so differently. Look at the blade under  strong light compared to any other paddle--no margin, no flat area along the edges.  You'll also change the characteristics of the catch very quickly since you'll be taking off part of the flow-reversing curve. Certainly don't cut the upper third of the blade at all--it's wrapped, not pressed together.

We're still working on a winged blade, and the first blade to get wings will be a Wiki or smaller. The catch is absolutely crazy, it will be a Wiki that strokes like a Maliko. If we can just get it to stop darting around like a fishing lure it will probably be what you're looking for.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Waves4supper on March 26, 2012, 12:16:42 PM
That's not a precise measurement since we don't currently have a way to directly measure the force applied to the shaft. But I try to pull them all about the same and we average a lot of strokes to get the decel number.
 

Hi Bill, why not set up a 'lab test" to measure the force on the blade?

Here's how that could be done:
The paddle is in vertical position, fixed at the top (with a hinge, so no bending moment can be transferred at the top).
Place a dynamometer (or fishing scale or whatever) horizontally at the place where your lower hand would normally be.
Submerge the blade in a river or any other kind of water, which flows at about the hull speed of a typical 12'6" or 14" foot board.

With the equilibrium of moments around the hinge, and given the force applied at the lower hand position to keep the paddle vertical, it's a piece of cake to calculate the force applied on the blade.

You can play with the angles of the paddle and do some integration to calculate the total propulsive energy transferred during an entire stroke.
Add an accelerometer (read smartphone) to the paddle and you should be able to quantify the amount of flutter for various blades.

I know that finding a river flowing at exactly the right speed may be challenging. Alternatively you can use a boat in still water and hang the paddle far enough over the bow to eliminate any effects of the boat. A catamaran or an outrigger canoe could be an good platform as well.
Another option is to find a pool with a counter-current swimming system, and find a place where the current is regular enough and at the right speed.

Maybe this could be an idea for a comparative test for that australian sup-mag that did such an excellent comparison of the 14-foot boards.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 26, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
Actually I plan to build a Water Tunnel this summer and that's exactly what it will be for--that and seeing flow dynamics a little better. Pretty simple to make, especially if I don't try to make it continuous--an elevated tank, a flow straightening section, then the test area with glass walls, a catch tank and a recirc pump. I've been sketching and sizing it for a couple of months.

I do have a paddle test spot in the Hood River that works as you describe, and I made a test tank with a watering trough and a big recirc pipe where I can stroke a paddle with a bungee cord, but they were both pretty unhandy and hard to get repeated data from. So far the best data comes from being on a board and using the Paddle Pod, but I want something more manageable.

My Paddle Pod contraption has a two axis accelerometer as part of the sensor array, and I'm going to add a gyro for angle. All the stuff people build for radio controlled autopilots and RC Helicopter stabilization has made doing this stuff much easier.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Waves4supper on March 26, 2012, 01:14:42 PM
Excellent idea, Bill!
Being able to view and film from up close is also extremely valuable.

Make sure you make it deep and wide enough, as there can be quite a big influence from the bottom and sidewalls if there's nowhere to go for the water. The water velocity around your blade edges would then be a lot higher than in real life, which can lead to wrong conclusions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_effect)

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 26, 2012, 03:18:53 PM
I bet Diane is going to love having that in the backyard.... ;D

How long are you going to need the flow to continue and at what velocity? You're going to need a considerable volume of water if you aren't making it continuous. The squat effect won't have as much influence on a paddle as it does a ship given the limited length but you will still want to have plenty of area around the blade to get as accurate as possible. The channel walls effect flow as well. What you're doing is somewhat analogous to a flow meter. You'll want a long upstream section for laminar flow and a shorter section downstream with a weir at the end to minimize influence. A 3' x 2' x 12' channel (guessing at the minimum size) gives you 72 cu/ft and 538 gals static just in the channel. If you want to keep that flowing for a minute at an average paddling speed of 3.5 mph...you'll need about a 4,000 gal tank minimum each end. Might be easier to convince Diane you need an endless pool in Hood River... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 26, 2012, 05:28:34 PM
It will be in the warehouse, with my race cars and the big tools I don't use anymore.

I forgot that you are the pipe king.

I'm planning runs of a few seconds. I'll have a recirc pump that's medium sized, maybe 30-40 GPM and probably 100 gallon tanks. Open the shutter, record the data, close shutter, refill. I figured on a weir to give me level control, it will usually be completely full. And I can set the flow rate anywhere I want with the shutter.

I don't need to get anywhere neat 3.5 MPH, the speed of a paddle relative to a board is much slower than that (the board moves).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TEX_SUP on March 26, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
You could probably just use a holding tank at a higher elevation.  Run the tunnel for a few minutes until all the water has flowed into a catch tank, then use a small pump to refill the upper tank.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 26, 2012, 08:03:17 PM
Hadn't thought of the relative speed, and short runs will make it a lot easier. I think you'll still want bigger tanks though. What do you think the relative speed is? You can probably shrink the channel a little without too much issue to give higher velocity. Make a slide gate to allow fuller flow and build the upstream tank short and fat so as it empties the lesser head won't effect flow so much.. You'll get a slug of turbulence when you first open the gate so that water won't be worth much in your data. A second or two to let it settle down and some vanes will make it more laminar. Better to make it a bit bigger than you think you'll need so you have some room for error and experiment.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 26, 2012, 09:40:08 PM
If slip is 10% (it's less) then relative speed is about .4 mph. I didn't think about the acceleration of the water close to the edges, good thing I talked to you guys first. I'm thinking of making the viewing area long enough to be able to put instrumented hull models in too. We'll see about that one. There's actually a company that sells water tunnels, the tanks they use look like from 50 gallon for smaller in-lab stuff to several hundred gallons. I think they use bigger pumps than I plan to use, the taks are mostly to quiet the water, but their tunnels start at five figures and my budget is three, maybe nudging four.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TEX_SUP on March 26, 2012, 09:57:27 PM
Are you talking full scale hull models?  If you are going miniature, watch your Reynolds number.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on March 27, 2012, 07:58:50 AM
OK PB, I'll bite.

I'm in the UK. How can I get one of your paddles, and how much will it cost either with or without this new Bongo arrangement?

We pay 20% sales tax on anything coming into the UK from the USA, and that 20% is calculated on the price of goods *plus* the carriage costs.

Henrik F - since you seem to be closest to me, how much did it end up costing you in total?

It's the ability to change the length that is clearly the USP for me.

PM me the name of your local dealer. I'm getting ready to do a push to get some UK dealers. Going to do the UK first since I can't ramp production very quickly. It will probably be the most reasonable way to get one.

Of course you can order direct. Click on the Bongo button on the site and it will tell you what the likely freight will be. The tough part is that it's going to be the same freight for one or five since these aren't heavy, just bulky.

The shipping box size is 69" X 4" X 10" and the weight is 4 pounds.

Hi PB,
I hope you will have a distributor in Spain soon. It looks like ordering one of your paddles using Bongo becomes quite expensive. For example, a shipment of Wiki (worth 375 USD) to Spain costs total of 656 USD with bongo. Which is about 495 Euros. On the other hand, a qb Kanaha Elite Race 8.3'' costs here around 360 Euros (about 475 USD).

We're working hard on it. We think we can reduce our distributor minimum quantity a bit to make it feasible to to ship direct to European countries instead of trying to have a central European distributor. . And since we don't ship finished goods (they must be assembled locally) the duties might be lower. It's priority one--getting distribution in all European countries. For some reason our paddles are like Jerry Lewis--even more popular outside the US. I can't believe how much email we get from Australia.

Hi,
I look forward to that because ordering a Kenalu paddle to Spain via bongo ends up too expensive. Is there a possibility that I can order the paddle directly from you? I would also be interested in a paddle size between Wiki and Maliko.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 27, 2012, 09:21:14 AM
Hi Vator,
We're working on setting up a distributor in Spain. or at least setting up a few dealers. The easiest way to cut the shipping cost is to ship multiple paddles since our paddles are very light--we can ship five in the same box that holds one and it doesn't cost any more money since it's the volume of the box that determines the shipping cost for light items. Doubling the box (taping two together) increases the total shipping cost a little but cuts the individual cost down to about $15, so consolidation is the way to go.

If you know of a local dealer that can handle some volume please PM me, in the meantime, we're working away at it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Waves4supper on March 27, 2012, 09:45:35 AM
True, you need a lot lower speed than board speed.

I once made a counter-current swimming system for an outdoor pool (one of those round things with an inflatable collar). We ordered a 920 l/min pump from www.pacific-motor.com (http://www.pacific-motor.com) for not too much (pump was about 250 $ I think, with shipping again as much).
The system actually worked, but we lost interest in the business idea when I found out such systems already exist (even for those cheap kinds of swimming pools which stand on the ground).
Besides, swimming wasn't comfortable (too much turbulence) and you didn't have to swim too fast.
We found it on Alibaba.com, but be careful as I have once read that not all advertisers are legitimate businesses.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on March 27, 2012, 02:16:36 PM
If you can't measure it you can't fix it.  Everyone likes to talk about how light their paddles are.  Well here is proof.  This is a Molokai measuring 76".  

497 Grams: Not bad for the biggest blade.

PS: My Kialoa Methane is 2 inches shorter and weighs 545 grams.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: keloke69 on March 27, 2012, 04:06:32 PM
If you can't measure it you can't fix it.  Everyone likes to talk about how light their paddles are.  Well here is proof.  This is a Molokai measuring 76".  

497 Grams: Not bad for the biggest blade.

PS: My Kialoa Methane is 2 inches shorter and weighs 545 grams.

That is so beautiful I can't stand it anymore. I've tried to justify it so many different ways but I just can't anymore. I NEED to try one of these for myself I've just heard too much. And to think that I've already spent so much on crappy aluminium paddles makes me want to kick myself.

These things are like a work of art. So for a 240 lb sup beginner paddling mostly flat water what is the best Ke Nalu for my money?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: enden on March 27, 2012, 04:17:06 PM
I used my Ke Nalu Maliko paddle for the first time yesterday on a Hawaii Kai downwind run, what a great paddle.....
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 27, 2012, 11:32:43 PM
That is so beautiful I can't stand it anymore. I've tried to justify it so many different ways but I just can't anymore. I NEED to try one of these for myself I've just heard too much. And to think that I've already spent so much on crappy aluminium paddles makes me want to kick myself.

These things are like a work of art. So for a 240 lb sup beginner paddling mostly flat water what is the best Ke Nalu for my money?

A maliko is the safe choice, no question you'd like it. If you want to push yourself go for the Molokai. It takes some work adapting to it, but it's the most efficient and when you want to catch a wave or a swell, it's hard to beat having all that oomph.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on March 28, 2012, 01:26:04 PM
I did an interesting test of shaft stiffness (I'm being serious here.)  I compared the KeNalu 90% shaft to the QB SSI-36 shaft, which is their softest carbon shaft.  Bottom line is that the KeNalu was negligibly softer.

Details:  I put 50 inches of each shaft, free of any inserts, between blocks and used dial calipers to measure the distance between the shaft and an aluminum plate on the floor.  Under a load of about 35 pounds, the QB deflected 0.53 inches, and the KeNalu deflected 0.54 inches, or less than 2% more.

I would just guess that the 100% KeNalu shaft falls somewhere within the range of the QB SSI-38 (medium) or SSI-40 (stiff) ratings, but someone else will have to find out for sure.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 28, 2012, 02:45:55 PM
That's about right. Since our shaft is tapered it flexes differently, the lower half is about 10 percent stiffer than the upper half.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Bulky on March 28, 2012, 03:19:44 PM
That is so beautiful I can't stand it anymore. I've tried to justify it so many different ways but I just can't anymore. I NEED to try one of these for myself I've just heard too much. And to think that I've already spent so much on crappy aluminium paddles makes me want to kick myself.

These things are like a work of art. So for a 240 lb sup beginner paddling mostly flat water what is the best Ke Nalu for my money?

A maliko is the safe choice, no question you'd like it. If you want to push yourself go for the Molokai. It takes some work adapting to it, but it's the most efficient and when you want to catch a wave or a swell, it's hard to beat having all that oomph.

Keloke--I'm 240 and my beginner days were not that long ago.  Not like I would have anything to add beyond PB, but +1 on the Maliko.  You will notice such a difference from whatever you're using now.  I don't have the best car and even the best board, but it sure is fun to look at my paddle and say I have the BEST.  You don't notice how much other paddles flutter and wobble until you plant a KeNalu.

Have fun!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Hoffenator on March 29, 2012, 05:18:11 AM
Hey Bill, I'm about to pull the trigger on a wiki, looking to dial in a paddle length of between 84" to 86", what do you think is the better option the long 100 flex shaft and trim to fit or the standard shaft length plus extended ergo T? I only ask because website says that wiki with standard shaft is 82.5", so I'm only looking to add 1.5" to max 3.5", so at most only 50% of extended grip range. I think I saw an earlier post about the extended grip possibly effecting the shaft flex when fully inserted into the shaft? I suppose I could also trim the standard length shaft and then take full advantage of the extended grip range; hmmm, that's an interesting option. Anyway, appreciate your thoughts.

Bill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 29, 2012, 06:37:15 AM
The extended T handle gives you a lot more options. I can barely measure the difference in flex. I'd take 2 inches off and have 80.5 to 86.5 range, You're likely to find you use a slightly shorter paddle than you're used to.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 29, 2012, 07:03:29 AM
Bill...give me a yell and we can hook up for a demo. I'll PM the details.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Hoffenator on March 29, 2012, 09:28:29 AM
Bob, got it. I emailed you at newenglandsup, talk soon. Bill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 29, 2012, 11:18:37 AM
That's the way to go. I forgot that you are reasonably close to Bob. One of the main reasons we're working on adding dealers is that the best way to choose a blade size is to demo a Ke Nalu. It's a very different paddle. People who think they like small paddles are winding up with Malikos and some people who are used to a larger blade are hooked on Wikis. I haven't come up with a useful formula for really predicting which blade someone is going to like.

We're working on a way to make xTuf's a reasonable choice for rental fleets. It will be a bit easier when we have the screw-adjustable version ready. We've had to go through a few iterations of the fitting to make sure it works properly.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Stand and Paddle on March 29, 2012, 11:59:01 AM
Hi,

Where is the closest place to Hilton Head Is, SC / Savannah, Ga, that I could try one of your paddles?

Do you have any dealers in the Southeast?

Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on March 29, 2012, 02:38:53 PM
Hi,

Where is the closest place to Hilton Head Is, SC / Savannah, Ga, that I could try one of your paddles?

Do you have any dealers in the Southeast?

Thanks

 I'm in Jax Fl (Water Bound Sports), and a registered Ke Nalu dealer. There are a few of us around here using Bill's paddles. If you are in this area, let me know and I'll try to catch up to you for a demo ...   Paddle on,    JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: finsider on March 29, 2012, 08:07:26 PM
One of the main reasons we're working on adding dealers is that the best way to choose a blade size is to demo a Ke Nalu. It's a very different paddle.

Agreed.  Even after reading 30+ pages of this thread, and all of your videos and articles on Ke Nalu, I still cannot make up my mind, the only reason I have yet to buy one.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 29, 2012, 08:28:53 PM
Yeah, we really need a few Florida dealers besides JD--not that there's anything wrong with JD, but last time I drove around down there I realized how fricken' big that state is. . There's a lot of interest there. Finsider, if you have a local dealer you like PM me their email address and I'll do what I can to get them signed up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 29, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
What Tom--our very first customer--started here has become a HUGE thread. Browsing around on the zone it's seems to be in the top ten for number of replies and number of views. I can't tell you folks how much all your positive comments and encouragement have meant to us. We're working hard on both getting a reasonable dealer footprint so more people can try the paddles, and on some new stuff that will make our paddles even better and more versatile. Even the one you already own.

One thing we've focused on that will make the early adopters of our paddles particularly happy is that everything new we're bringing out will be compatible with or original paddles. We haven't found any reason the change the dimensions of our blade or handle ferrules or the core dimensions of our shaft design. So when we come out with a three piece paddle, or our adjustable, our new wing designs, and anything else we do to a paddle, if you like it, you can add it to your existing paddle. It may sound weird to say the paddle you use today can be a three piece travel paddle that performs just as it always did, but it will.

We think the component approach is a great way to add value to our line. And we're going to expand on that as we go. So stick with us, it just gets better from here.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 613SUP on March 29, 2012, 10:33:17 PM
Hey Bill, I certainly appreciate not only the design of the Ke Nalu paddles, but that you came up with the idea of using hot glue.  All the hot air from the heat guns and hair dryers used to assemble everyone’s paddles made its way to parts of Canada last week and melted most of the ice off the rivers and lakes here in Ottawa.

I finally got my Maliko out after a 3 month hibernation in its Ke Nalu paddle bag.  With the winter layoff, I was starting to forget how good this paddle was.  Once I got the paddle into the water where it belongs, the “quietness” I remembered was not due to the fact that there was no one on the sub 40 degree water, but due to the linear tracking of the paddle - I rarely hear it knocking on the side of my board.  I haven’t decided yet if I should put a paddle guard on the paddle. 

Bill, do you play golf?  Offering separate paddle components parallels that to building golf clubs – just get the heat gun out and replace what you need.  Also, a common piece of advice you give is, “let the paddle do the work”.  It’s the same advice I tell my family and friends on how to hit a chip shot – let the club do the work.

Keloke – I’m 215 and paddle mostly flatwater. I have no regret getting a Maliko (untested and unseen)  over a Molokai because I know a 10 km paddle can easily turn to a 20 – 30 km paddle when the conditions are good and the shoulders don’t hurt.

For all the pics of Ke Nalus in warmer climates, here’s one at the opposite spectrum (and to enforce the Canuck stereotype), my Ke Nalu on ice:

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 30, 2012, 12:56:35 AM
I met some nice Canadian folks from Ontario at the Fish Market Resturant in Paia a couple of days ago. they were saying the winter had been pretty mild. Must have been the heat guns.

Letting the paddle do the work is the key to the Ke Nalus, especially the Molokai. Did a southside run today and I was focusing on how little I could pull and still drop into a swell. It was a pretty surprising exercise. For the most part it was actually easier to catch swells pulling gently than pulling hard. I think when I pull easy I get the force more forward and I recover earlier. Or perhaps I'm just upsetting the board less. It was pretty interesting. Give it a go, especially if you have a Molokai.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on March 30, 2012, 04:48:35 AM

Letting the paddle do the work is the key to the Ke Nalus, especially the Molokai.

Agreed. I recently pulled something in my shoulder trying too hard, to catch a mushy wave. My Maliko blade feels like its planted in concrete. I love that feeling. I just got too excited and pulled too hard one time. Now I'm paying for it with something strained and sore.

So last night I took the Wiki blade off my wife's paddle and glued it onto mine. Love being able to do this. Way too small a blade for me. It was slipping and generating huge whirlpools off the blade. I totally lost the board-being-pulled-to-the-paddle sensation. I'm not buying your theory it's the swing weight. I still think you need a blade size in between the Wiki and Maliko. For now, I'll use a softer shaft to nurse my shoulder back to health.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 30, 2012, 08:07:02 AM
OK. we'll look at it. The first wing blade will be wiki-sized though, and that might serve the purpose.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on March 30, 2012, 10:41:09 AM
Letting the paddle do the work is the key to the Ke Nalus, especially the Molokai. Did a southside run today and I was focusing on how little I could pull and still drop into a swell. It was a pretty surprising exercise. For the most part it was actually easier to catch swells pulling gently than pulling hard. I think when I pull easy I get the force more forward and I recover earlier. Or perhaps I'm just upsetting the board less. It was pretty interesting. Give it a go, especially if you have a Molokai.
That is also something Dave Kalama recommends when changing your stroke and as a drill--doing the proper motion, but not exerting effort.  It helps you concentrate on getting your reach and technique down, and shows you how you don't need to use a great deal of force to go fairly fast.  It's great when the paddle magnifies the reward of doing that. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on March 30, 2012, 11:08:02 AM
It's an odd feeling, I found it very hard to convince myself that it was working, even though it obviously was. It's so counter-intuitive, my mind was coming up with all kinds of reasons why even though I was catching every swell I was going for with gentle pulls, that it was the wind pushing me in, or just a fluke. Some of the time I hardly pulled at all and still dropped right into fast moving swells that are ordinarily very hard to make. It's good news for my shoulders if I can force myself to do it consistently.

I should know better, watch the recent video of Jeremy Riggs at Maliko and you'll see he hardly pulls on his paddle.

If my form is good, I reach way out, set the blade, give a little pull, recover, feather, and reach again then my board stays straight and flat, it accelerates into the swell, and I drop in like clockwork. When I paddle like a lunatic, pulling hard to catch something, the board yaws and tips, and I miss as many as I get.

If Dave Kalama is reading this he's saying "And WHY are you writing like this is big news". He's been telling me that since day one. But now that I'm using a Molokai for downwinding the lessons come home that much stronger.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on March 30, 2012, 11:52:29 AM
Bill, great analysis.  I think time and time again it's been discussed here on the forum that technique is vital to paddling speed and efficiency and with the Kenalu paddles, it clearly rewards good technique!  I have both the Maliko and the Wiki but my go to paddle is the Maliko because of the solid catch and that it's clearly more efficient than the Wiki.  I agree with you that the Wiki has a very light swing weight, which increases cadence, but I also feel the increased slippage also increases cadence. In a downwind situation, I wouldn't use the Wiki, but in upwind and distance paddling, it really works well, in my opinion and has plenty enough catch to keep me moving at my weight, on my boards.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on March 30, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
Hadn't thought of increased slippage allowing the faster cadence but it would definitely be a part of it. I need to give the Molokai more time. It grabs so hard and I've always been an aggressive paddler I almost seem to pull myself off the board. I've definitely over pulled and blown it on a wave. I think part of that is because I've been swapping around between the 3. I think I'm going to try paddling just Molokai for a month and see how it feels. Try and settle down and focus on technique for awhile.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NoahG on April 01, 2012, 10:41:41 AM
Howzit Bill. Is there any talk about producing a fourth blade - bigger than Molokai?

Love my Molokai and comfortable with it in long races. Thinking a larger blade would be awesome for shorter sprint races.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 01, 2012, 11:32:34 AM
There will be a wing version eventually, when we get it tamed. Guaranteed to pull your arm right out of the socket. The wing blades also serve to fill the spaces between blades. A wiki with a wing will catch about halfway to a Maliko, etc.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NoahG on April 01, 2012, 12:26:05 PM
Righton. Let me know if you need some help testing. I'm headed to philippines in two weeks for the stand up world series race. I'll do my best to put KeNalu on the podium.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on April 01, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
The wing paddle sounds intriguing.  Traditional wing blades are cupped on the outside edge which "grabs" the water like a bucket.  That means they only shed water from the flat inside edge, causing the blade to drift outward (away from the boat) when pulled.  Since you can't use the same blade on both sides of the boat, I'm guessing that you have both edges cupped, and shed water only off the bottom due to a strong offset angle on the blade.  If the water wants to shed off the bottom, the blade will want to move upwards, providing support you could lean on.  Or, maybe you've made one that sheds water through vents in the center of the blade for directional stability. Either might be worth a try.  And, no dihedral is needed for the wing, since the dihedral is merely to cause water to shed more evenly off both edges of a conventional blade at the same time, instead of one side, then the other, causing flutter.   Can't wait to see.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on April 02, 2012, 08:31:00 AM
Bob Fox at Matunuck Surf Shop in RI is going to be the 1st New England Ke Nalu dealer. What a great vibe. Had a fun day surfing with the crew down there and then built a Ke Nalu on the spot at Bob's shop for  our newest Ke Nalu customer Paul. BTW...thanks for the connection linter, lunch on me next time I'm down, hopefully you'll be back on the water by then.

Part of the vibe I mentioned is how cool Bob is. How many shop owners would be willing to let someone come in and use their power so someone can sell a paddle to one of their regular customers? The portable blow dryer I bought just isn't quite hot enough for on the road building so when Paul decided to buy he asked Bob if we could use the shop which is right up the street. No hesitation with a "sure". Great people and this is obviously SUP central in Narragansett. A steady stream of folks coming into the shop to talk story. The perfect shop for Ke Nalus.

We'll be adding other shops in New England. They'll be kind of spread geographically but the real test of whether they are a fit is how stoked on SUP they are.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: endlessfight on April 02, 2012, 08:49:02 AM
finally got to see one of these babies in person. Bill, they are carrying these in Toronto for the lakers! man you're tappin' in to all markets, nice!

anyways this was by far the nicest paddle they had in the store imo, and was the lightest as well. insane looking piece of equipment, i need to try one!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on April 02, 2012, 09:44:47 AM
... I need to try one!


Anyone near me (Wasaga Beach Ontario) is more than welcome to see and try all the different Ke Nalu models.

Warning though -- you won't be happy with your old paddle after you try a Ke Nalu. They truly are amazing and will take your paddling experience to a whole new level. Seriously!

Lee
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: endlessfight on April 02, 2012, 11:28:40 AM
Lee,
Home base for me is Meaford so i'll give a shout the next time im over to the g-bay area!

J
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Muskoka SUP on April 02, 2012, 02:24:49 PM
Heading your way real soon too, Lee.
A Molokai is next on my list...
(thanks ahead Bill)

David S.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on April 05, 2012, 08:24:09 AM
I replaced my Elite 90 carbon shaft with the xTuf.  Wow, this should be the standard shaft  ;D

I surf a 7'8 board. That means I often need to pull really HARD, for one extra stroke to make the drop. When others on longer boards, would already be dropping in. Because the KeNalu blades don't slip, they bite, and they don't jump sideways, there is almost no limit to how hard you can pull and launch your board forward.

That can be hard on the body with a 90 carbon shaft, even though at 90% carbon, its fairly flexible.

Switching up to the xTuf allowed me to pull very hard and feel nothing but a cushy softness come back through my body. Then I felt the slingshot turbo boost the shaft recoil gave. I could swear that recoil was getting me into more waves this morning.

For surfing, I'm going to recommend to anyone who asks me, go xTuf. It's like having a little booster launch into the wave.

I'm tempted to order my wife the xTuf. She's using the Elite 60. I hope you can get the shipping on a shaft down to about $15. Then I'll get her one.


Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 05, 2012, 11:30:50 AM
Yup, that's why I like it for downwind.

I keep getting distracted with other important business stuff (okay, I was surfing) but I'll get the component shipping cost fixed ASAP. You could also work with your local dealer to get it into their order, but that might take a while.

I agree with you about the benefits of the xTuf shaft. Perfect for making those hard pulls and shooting into a wave without ripping up your joints. I still like the 100Felx better for surfing, but Boyum (headmount) likes his Molokai Downwind for surfing. So I guess I'll set up "downwind" options for Wikis and Malikos as well, though I'm convinced that it's most beneficial for the Molokai. Also nice that it yields a little less expensive paddle.

I think there's more than just flex degree at work here. The Unidirectional carbon fiber stores energy differently, there's a torque component to it. The 3K twill carbon has fibers running vertically and horizontally, so the flex is resisted by the vertical fibers. The Unidirectional CF is wound on a diagonal bias in opposite layers, so the flex is resisted by stretching the fibers at an angle. There's a torque component to that energy that certainly releases as the shaft springs back. I think that torque energy gets stored without as much bending of the shaft

At least that's my theory. It certainly feels different than a 3K shaft. It has less flex than the 60Flex but the 60Flex doesn't have a similar feel. The 60Flex gives a nice gentle flex that's sweet on your joints but feels soft. The xTuf is a catapult.

Whatever... it works. As I said, some of the best discoveries are accidental.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on April 05, 2012, 12:33:05 PM
Hmmmm.  Interesting.  Looks like I will be going over to the Ke Nalu site... "catapulting" into waves... That sounds like a good thing. :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on April 05, 2012, 02:07:41 PM
With the xTuf, I went for a shorter length ... from 85 to 81 and like it. 
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AJR on April 05, 2012, 03:54:34 PM
I like the sounds of that  xtuf; what are the advantages of getting an xtuf shaft with an elite wikki blade vs. just getting the standard xtuf Wikki?  Even the standard xtuf wikki is lighter than the Kialoa shaka puu I currently use...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JillRide45 on April 05, 2012, 05:57:41 PM
Bill,
Does anyone in So. Cal have paddles you can demo for the day?  I would like to try out that Xtuf in the maliko and wiki (really wish there was something inbetween).  Maybe also compare the xtuf to the 60 shaft.

Cheers, Jill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: capobeachboy on April 05, 2012, 08:02:49 PM
I have a Maliko cut to 79.5" that you can check out.  I'm in Dana but can alway meet up with you in Newport sometime.  I think you have my e-mail - I got that Kialoa off you for my daughter last year.



Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 06, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
OK, so the xTuf shaft is now an option for any Elite paddle, and it deducts $40 from the price of the paddle. That 3K twill is expensive. Alternatively I've set up Wiki and Maliko Downwinds which have the xTuf shaft and Elite blade. It's the same thing, just might be a little easier for some folks. Kind of ugly without a picture, but I'm beat, I'll do that later. I did a Maliko run with Jeremy Riggs--Jeremy is now teaching folks how to do downwinders, and since my mojo has been going sideways lately (or maybe everyone else is just getting better faster than me) I went for a lesson. And of course I found out I've been doing it all wrong.

More about this later, I'm hitting the sack.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on April 06, 2012, 05:18:11 AM
Bill - you said you still like the 100flex for surfing compared to the xtuf....just curious as to why?  I'm about to call Jim K to pull the trigger on a Maliko, 100flex w/ Ergo T.....should I consider the xtuf shaft as a possibility instead.  I will be mostly surfing and flat water runs.... I'm a strong paddler who just broke his Kialoa shaft....will the xtuf be a much stronger option than the 100flex?  Can you (or anyone else) give a brief comparison between the 2 shafts to help my decision?  Thanks!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrod on April 06, 2012, 06:58:12 AM
One of the main reasons we're working on adding dealers is that the best way to choose a blade size is to demo a Ke Nalu. It's a very different paddle.

Agreed.  Even after reading 30+ pages of this thread, and all of your videos and articles on Ke Nalu, I still cannot make up my mind, the only reason I have yet to buy one.


If it helps I just received my molokai , 100 flex long shaft with an ergo T grip. I gotta say the statements from the other zoners are spot on. Clean solid catch, light as hell, the only issue was the motor gave out.  I had it out in varying conditions the last week, flat water ICW, onshore wind and confused chop (following the coast line), through inlets on an inbound and outbound tide. I was not disappointed in the least.
I had corresponded with Bill about the blade size and previous shoulder injuries, no problems so far ( I didn't listen to him) no pain or numbness.  In fact,  the lighter grip allowed me to relax a bit, analyze my stroke further and refine the points where I had developed bad habits. Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 06, 2012, 08:16:50 AM
Bill - you said you still like the 100flex for surfing compared to the xtuf....just curious as to why?  I'm about to call Jim K to pull the trigger on a Maliko, 100flex w/ Ergo T.....should I consider the xtuf shaft as a possibility instead.  I will be mostly surfing and flat water runs.... I'm a strong paddler who just broke his Kialoa shaft....will the xtuf be a much stronger option than the 100flex?  Can you (or anyone else) give a brief comparison between the 2 shafts to help my decision?  Thanks!!

I don't like the little bit of hesitation from the flex in the surf. Actually it's more like I'm addicted to the immediate response of the 100Flex. It's purely a feel thing. I also like the 100Flex more for flatware, though the xTuf felt really good paddling through the harbor yesterday after a Maliko run.

I haven't tested either of these shafts to failure yet so I don't know which is stronger, I've been in Maui since December and don't have a press and load cell here, but I've taken them both to 200 pounds.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: capobeachboy on April 06, 2012, 12:34:14 PM
Hi Bill,

What is the flex shaft did you use on the first delivery of paddles you had sent to Dana Point for the Battle of the Paddle?  It works great for me in all conditions but I'm interested in trying something different for comparison.   
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 06, 2012, 01:56:15 PM
Those were all 100Flex
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JillRide45 on April 06, 2012, 02:36:03 PM
Sounds like we need a demo day down at Baby Beach in Dana Point.  Hopefully a rep can arrange this.... Jill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on April 06, 2012, 08:55:53 PM
I had the Molokai out last Sunday. Handle was all the way in at around 84" 100 flex shaft. Crazy power getting into waves. Usually just one or two set strokes would do it. I didn't miss any waves until later in the second session when my arms were starting to give out. Shoulders were a little sore next day. Not too bad but I kind of wish I had switched to the xTuf for the second session.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 06, 2012, 11:20:51 PM
You're better off sticking with what you start a session with. Changing will screw up your timing.

Somehow each day the reset button gets pushed, so if you head out in the morning with a xTuf shaft it feels fine. Start with a 100Flex and switch to an xTuf and it will feel like a noodle. The reverse is also true--switch to a 100Flex from an xTuf and you'll think it's going to rip your arms off.

The exception is downwinders, where starting with a 100Flex you might be happy as a clam, but when you change to the xTuf you feel like you're being slung into the swells. Like DW said, you can pull on it as hard as you like, it just takes care of everything. There's a tag line in there somewhere.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: capobeachboy on April 06, 2012, 11:56:07 PM
Thanks Bill.  I'm happy as a clam with the 100Flex.  It just does it all for me.  I tried one of my old wood paddles the other day in a surf session and I was blowing take offs left & right.  Prior to getting the Ke Nalu I went back to wood because I though my carbon paddles were too stiff, but the K-N feels just right.  Also, I don't know if it's the diameter, the clean pull, or the combination of the two but I just don't get blisters any more - even on the longest paddles, and for that I thank you. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mjd on April 08, 2012, 05:06:01 PM
Wow, we tested out our new Ke Nalu paddles and I was blown away.  I thought I had a great paddle but this one is just far far beyond what I thought a good paddle could do.   Super light and it travels so smoothly along the rail.  The blade is shaped to run under the board instead of against it and the shark skin shaft felt amazing.  From the first few strokes I could tell I was moving much faster than I had been at any time before.  This is an awesome paddle.  


 



 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on April 09, 2012, 04:15:23 AM
 Welcome to the Ke Nalu Fan Club!  ;D  I've got a few X-Tuf Wiki's on the way to compliment the Elite Moliko...  Sweet paddles, for sure...    Paddle on,    JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Paddlefit on April 09, 2012, 06:49:37 AM
I just recently received my nice shiny Ke Nalu Molokai with the extended Ergo-T handle and I am confident in saying that this is the most fantastic paddle I have tried thus far.  Excellent piece of craftsmanship!  Kudos to you Bill!  I already know what to get for surfing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 10, 2012, 12:02:20 AM
Our site is kind of halfway down. I'm trying to change hosts, the new guys sucessfully transferred everything else with no problems, so we did Ke Nalu and BAM. Disaster. Figures.

What makes it all worse is that I switched the nameservers to the new site--the DNS still hasn't propagated to Hawaii (what, does it come by boat?) so the site works in Maui but not most other places. Worked all day on it, and finally switched the nameservers back to the old host, which of course will take time to propagate. The joys of the web.

So I don't know WHAT the hell is going on until everything stabilizes and I can go back and break it all again.

Do me a favor and see if the site comes up where you are: http://www.kenalu.com (http://www.kenalu.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ffchadbo on April 10, 2012, 12:11:02 AM
up in las vegas
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on April 10, 2012, 12:11:42 AM
okay in Hilo Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on April 10, 2012, 01:19:48 AM
The site shows in Sweden! But old price 335 and new 335? You save 0? A small thing but looks strange.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on April 10, 2012, 02:15:31 AM
Good in NY :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jonysan on April 10, 2012, 02:27:28 AM
works in England, !
what is the most economic way of purchasing a Ke Nalu paddle, shipping to England,

Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: iopsailor on April 10, 2012, 04:17:21 AM
It works in South Carolina, loads slowly.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: freetobeme on April 10, 2012, 05:01:03 AM
cape cod is a GO!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: balance_fit on April 10, 2012, 06:22:53 AM
Up and running in Puerto Rico ! Bongo keeps following my every move too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on April 10, 2012, 06:25:02 AM
 Up here in N Florida, Bill...         Paddle on,        JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: firesurf on April 10, 2012, 06:48:46 AM
Yep, Ke Nalu site is working  in SW FL.
 Bill,  planning a trip to Maui around the 3rd week of May. Wondering if I can get a paddle from you while we're there?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 10, 2012, 08:47:25 AM
Thanks everyone, Okay, I've switched the nameservers to the new site. The DNS should have propagated on the west coast at least. Still running?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 10, 2012, 09:08:21 AM
 Just got done with my first order a few minutes ago, and all was well.

Can't wait to get one of these back in my hand. I didn't realize what a "club" my 29oz paddle was until I got home last week. I used to love it, but now forever spoiled :D. Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupnSurf on April 10, 2012, 09:09:31 AM
I just tried to order something...chose one item...and a whole bunch of stuff came up in my shopping cart.
Then it came up with someone elses name and shipping info already in the form.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupnSurf on April 10, 2012, 09:10:36 AM
Yep...it was RainWaves info that was showed.....
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 10, 2012, 09:29:29 AM
Yep...it was RainWaves info that was showed.....

 I didn't realize there was issues with the system before I placed my order, only after the fact when I came here. Hopefully that will clear up soon!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 10, 2012, 09:33:50 AM
Crap. And I can't see what it's doing until the DNS propagates to Hawaii.

Rainskates, your order came through fine.

Thanks everyone, we're close to back completely. What a pain. Fortunately our system never takes an credit card info, that's why we use Paypal off the site. But address information is private too.

I think the new hosting company is going to be a lot better than my old one, we were going down a couple times per week. At least these new guys are responsive and helpful.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupnSurf on April 10, 2012, 09:50:11 AM
Might have been a timing thing.  I was probably in there just as he finished, though I'm sure you don't want that to happen even if that's the case.  I was just back on and the form with shipping info came up blank this time.
There are a couple missing images in the "Products" page (Wiki Downwinder and Maliko Downwinder).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 10, 2012, 12:01:51 PM
The DNS seems to have propagated everywhere in the world except Maui. This is so weird. Nothing to do but wait. I guess I'll get the hell away from the computer and go do a downwind. WOW--a new excuse!! My DNS record hasn't propagated, might as well go play!

Henrik--the "sale" price thing is a feature that wasn't working previously that suddenly decided to work in the new environment. I'll fix it as soon as I gain the least bit of control over this thing. In the meantime, look at the savings!!

I'm glad it didn't go the other way and decide on a 100% discount and make everything free.

Firesurf, unfortunately I have to go back to Hood River in a little over a week. My wife needs to be there to help her family through a medical situation. But Hi Tech here in Maui carries Ke Nalu paddles. See Steve--he'll set you up.

Mantaray--shouldn't have happened, we sometimes have four or five people ordering simultaneously. Without boring everyone, our database back end was not connecting properly. From what I can see in my limited way from here it should be OK now, but I've been surprised before.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 11, 2012, 01:31:31 AM
Finally!! I've been bugging my ISP, they finally admitted that their servers only update DNS every 24 hours. I think it's less often than that. Who set that up? What, are we farmers? (gratuitous 30 Rock reference). Anyway, I'm back in biz.

Once of the first things I did was add a new Total Custom paddle. One of our more enthusiastic customers wants to add a paddle to his collection with a 100Flex shaft and an xTuf blade (no, it's not Tim, though that wouldn't surprise anyone). I didn't see that one coming, but it makes sense. If you do it with components it's expensive, so I created this thing, which lets you choose exactly what you want and pay the usual complete paddle price for the bits. Of course it works for dealers too, with the normal dealer discounts. Kind of cute.

http://www.kenalu.com/products-page/paddle-2/custom-paddle-2/ (http://www.kenalu.com/products-page/paddle-2/custom-paddle-2/) I'm sure it's going to drive our warehouse manager batty.

Diane had already fixed most of the goofy inconsistencies that popped up after the move. I gave her admin rights and she's starting to flex her geek muscles. It's kind of scary, but we'll see how that goes. She's the kind that pushes a button harder and faster when it doesn't work the first time.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 11, 2012, 09:04:36 AM
Spoke too soon on the custom paddle. The rest of the folks at Ke Nalu want to review it before we release it to the wild. Should just be a day.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 12, 2012, 05:52:25 PM
Okay, Custom Paddle is up and it works just fine--we've already got an order from it before I even re-announced it. I should probably make that the first think people see, though not everyone knows what they want so it might be a little intimidating. I need to do a bunch of work to the site but it's working very well in it's new home. It's a cloud-based service with extensive fail-over capability. Should be much more reliable (it says right here in the brochure).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JillRide45 on April 16, 2012, 07:22:11 AM
Hi PB, I am very interested in trying out one of your paddles with the 60 flex shaft of the Xtuf shaft.  Can you describe the difference in feel of them...  I have a QB flyweight that I love the flex of the shaft but the blade is too small and has no catch.

Best would be a rep in Dana Point area that has some paddles that I could test out. Any names to contact.

Thanks, Jill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 16, 2012, 07:52:42 AM
I'd recommend the xTuf over the 60Flex. The xTuf has a flex that archers call a "stack". It gets stiffer as it flexes. which means the initial bit of flex is soft but then it starts taking more force to deflect the shaft. I attribute this to the bias-wound fibers in the unidirectional carbon shaft, but whatever, it's a good feeling.

The 60Flex shaft stacks too, but it's more linear.

Right now the closest dealer to Dana Point is Ralph Bill at SupPosition. I need to get off my butt and add some more dealers in that area, but we've been slowed down a bit by a medical emergency in my wife's family. Ralph is in Huntington Beach. http://sup-position.com/ (http://sup-position.com/)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on April 16, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
Ralph will take care of you... he personally delivered a paddle to my office... talk about service!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 17, 2012, 11:34:14 PM
I lent a paddle to someone who must remain nameless (NOT Dave Kalama). Got it back from him tonight. All he'd say was "holy shit, Bill". Good enough.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PaddleCrazy on April 17, 2012, 11:46:37 PM
Right now the closest dealer to Dana Point is Ralph Bill at SupPosition. I need to get off my butt and add some more dealers in that area, but we've been slowed down a bit by a medical emergency in my wife's family. Ralph is in Huntington Beach. http://sup-position.com/ (http://sup-position.com/)
Yep, Ralph is top-notch.....

Demoed the Ke Nalu with him, and while I was at it, he was gracious enough to bring out a couple boards for me to demo also. 

Spent a couple hours with me, as we paddled the harbor, and then we drove over to the surf to put one of the boards through a better run through.  Great guy....highly recommend him.  (http://www.baseball-fever.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)(http://www.baseball-fever.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on April 18, 2012, 02:05:55 AM
I lent a paddle to someone who must remain nameless (NOT Dave Kalama). Got it back from him tonight. All he'd say was "holy shit, Bill". Good enough.
Haha! But can the KeNalu be used as a jack to fix a flat tire?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on April 18, 2012, 04:18:40 AM
Hey Bill,
Here's my request for 'what paddle should I get?'  :D

53 yrs old, 5'8" 175 lbs.  OK shape, lower intermediate paddler.  Tendency towards a lower cadence.  Low back pain every day, 2 shoulder surgeries.  Although SUP'g makes both back & shoulder better, they are still there.

Currently have a carbon shaft / fibreglass blade paddle that is ok, but nothing spectacular.  Get elbow pain after a good session.

Winter will be 90% surf, Summer will be 50% surf, 50% poking around the ocean & lake (no racing, or long distance touring).

Your biggest blade is definitely out, but not sure between the Wiki & Maliko.  Just read a lengthly thread about the origination of the Kialoa Methane (you had a couple comments in that thread), and how a lot of the better surfers out there are now opting for smaller blades.

The other option is the shaft.  Sounds like the 60 or 90, but recent comments about the XTuf shaft have me interested in that option.

Definitely want the extended ergo T, as I use that functionality quite a bit in the ocean with my current adjustable paddle. 

Looking for something that will be kind to my body  :D, but will allow me great acceleration when going for a wave.

Thanks!

Dan
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 18, 2012, 05:29:47 AM
I'd say the Maliko (8.5) blade, since you like a lower cadence and you're looking for acceleration into the waves. The shaft is a little trickier. You might like the xTuf shaft, it's certainly easy on your body, but it's heavier. I'd suggest the 90Flex. Gives you a little more flex without a weight penalty (five grams heavier). You already have the handle figured out so I think we're good.

you should PM Bob (stoneaxe) to find a local dealer. He's repping Ke Nalu in the Northeast and he's doing frequent demo days.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on April 18, 2012, 06:05:49 AM
Low back pain every day, 2 shoulder surgeries. 

Dan

I'm going to disagree with Bill on the shaft. I injured myself with the 90% carbon shaft. I'm using the xTuf now, and think it's easier on my shoulder and performs better with the recoil booster kick it puts out. I didn't notice any difference in weight when removing my 90% shaft and replacing it with the xTuf. Bill is splitting hairs on the weight difference.  ;D

I switched my wife over to the xTuf too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on April 18, 2012, 06:08:49 AM
Speaking of weights, I'm hoping to see the component weights on the web site.  I have an elite Wiki, and want a Maliko but can't decide on the full xtuf or downwinder (with only xtuf shaft.)  With the weights, I could decide.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 18, 2012, 08:41:50 AM
I have to confess I really like the xTuf shaft for just about everything except racing. I go back and forth on the 100Flex for surfing because I like the immediate pull of the 100Flex, though at the same time I'm fond of that little boost you get with the xTuf.

Like I said, the shaft is a tougher question.

and yeah, I'm a stickler about the weight thing, and it's kind of silly since a FULL xTuf (shaft and blade) is still lighter than most race paddles, but I'm spoiled and I feel the difference

I like the weight idea, I'll get on that.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ECSUP on April 18, 2012, 09:31:21 AM
First of all, I have to state that I love The Entire Babcock Clan.

I have been suping and supsurfing since 2007, and I average between 175 and 200 days per year in the ocean. I have owned C4 paddles, Kialoa paddles ( most recently the Methane), Malama Paddles ( beautiful), and Werner paddles. Recently, I have loved my Werner Nitro for both distance and surf ( two different lengths ). I thought I had found the perfect paddle for me. Well, that was until Bob ( Stoneaxe ) gave me a KeNalu Wiki as a Christmas gift. Imho, this paddle is AMAZING. I am 6' and 165lbs, and I try to be a high cadence paddler, and the Wiki is incredible. It is unbelieveably light and and has awesome bite when you first pull on it in the water. I traded off with my son the other day, and used his Methane and gave him my Wiki- he didn't want to trade back, and the the Methane felt like sledge hammer after the Wiki. Great job Bill, your KeNalu Paddles are tremendous.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 18, 2012, 12:57:52 PM
I have low back pain from motocross injuries. Had an awesome surf session but boy is my lower back tight. I have the kialoa methane. I like smaller blades and higher cadence for my smaller sup. bill, what's gonna work for me considering my lower back issues.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 18, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
 The UPS man just delivered a long box from Hood river! ;D! Time to run home and get my sons hot-glue gun. Can't wait to get one set up, but so busy at work, that this afternoon may, or may not happen. Will post up later. Thank you Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 18, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
The UPS man just delivered a long box from Hood river! ;D! Time to run home and get my sons hot-glue gun. Can't wait to get one set up, but so busy at work, that this afternoon may, or may not happen. Will post up later. Thank you Bill!

There is already glue applied to both the blade and handle. All you need is a hair dryer or a heat gun. A cheap hair dryer is best. Your wife's good one won't get hot enough

Bolide, you can certainly try the wiki. It's all about cadence. The wiki is well name. It's incredibly quick because there's no swing weight. I don't think flexy shafts do muck for back pain. Go with a 100 and take advantage of its light weight and quickness.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on April 18, 2012, 02:37:28 PM
That Bill is in the air back to America as we speak and he will probably weigh in when he gets there but I would think that the Maliko would be your best bet.  Molokai sounds too big for you and Wiki is pretty small.  But another factor besides blade size is shaft flex and with that there are at least three options.

You know in the technique threads there is always mention of forward bend and as it seems obvious that forward bend may be hard on a lower back, maybe increased shaft length might help your injury maintenance.  I don't like bending over either and use a longer shaft for my height.  It may not be conducive to the best technique or even be easy to handle in surfing situations but better for the back.  

We all have physical issues that sometimes have us stray from ideals and deal with them in the best manner possible.  As that big redneck says on cable, "get'er done"  Good luck.

Have you tried DMSO?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on April 18, 2012, 02:38:34 PM
He must be on his iPad in the airport and I stand corrected.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 18, 2012, 03:44:30 PM
The UPS man just delivered a long box from Hood river! ;D! Time to run home and get my sons hot-glue gun. Can't wait to get one set up, but so busy at work, that this afternoon may, or may not happen. Will post up later. Thank you Bill!

There is already glue applied to both the blade and handle. All you need is a hair dryer or a heat gun. A cheap hair dryer is best. Your wife's good one won't get hot enough

Bolide, you can certainly try the wiki. It's all about cadence. The wiki is well name. It's incredibly quick because there's no swing weight. I don't think flexy shafts do muck for back pain. Go with a 100 and take advantage of its light weight and quickness.

You don't think the xtuf would make the difference with more flex?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on April 18, 2012, 03:54:48 PM
The UPS man just delivered a long box from Hood river! ;D! Time to run home and get my sons hot-glue gun. Can't wait to get one set up, but so busy at work, that this afternoon may, or may not happen. Will post up later. Thank you Bill!

There is already glue applied to both the blade and handle. All you need is a hair dryer or a heat gun. A cheap hair dryer is best. Your wife's good one won't get hot enough

Bolide, you can certainly try the wiki. It's all about cadence. The wiki is well name. It's incredibly quick because there's no swing weight. I don't think flexy shafts do muck for back pain. Go with a 100 and take advantage of its light weight and quickness.

You don't think the xtuf would make the difference with more flex?


I think it would, in a round about way. I think a longer paddle helps the lower back. But a longer paddle adds more stress other places. The xTuf will be more forgiving and soften the stress everywhere new and old you might be feeling it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 18, 2012, 04:09:24 PM
I'm around 8 inches or a tad over for surfing.  My board sits low in the water.  I've had shoulder injuries and surgery so I find when surfing I paddle fast to get the wave and the longer paddle would make my shoulder scream.  Just read through some other posts and it seems that everyone who has the xtuf, really likes it, except Bill still prefers the stiff lighter weight.  I don't mind the extra weight when surfing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 18, 2012, 04:24:10 PM
The UPS man just delivered a long box from Hood river! ;D! Time to run home and get my sons hot-glue gun. Can't wait to get one set up, but so busy at work, that this afternoon may, or may not happen. Will post up later. Thank you Bill!

There is already glue applied to both the blade and handle. All you need is a hair dryer or a heat gun. A cheap hair dryer is best. Your wife's good one won't get hot enough

Bolide, you can certainly try the wiki. It's all about cadence. The wiki is well name. It's incredibly quick because there's no swing weight. I don't think flexy shafts do muck for back pain. Go with a 100 and take advantage of its light weight and quickness.

 Oh yeah, after a closer look, there it is! Time to fire up the heat gun when things slow in in a bit. Of course the rain has started by now..but won't keep me from a test run in a few hours!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on April 18, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
So the bottom line is that:

there are lots of different body types, paddling strokes, paddle scenarios (surf only, poke around vs. fast coastal cruises, racing, etc), fitness levels, weights/heights/ages, condition (soft musculature vs. good shape; surgeries, etc), blah, blah, blah. 

Obviously, every review is NOT going to work for every reader.  So what do you do?  You read all the reviews, try to focus in what might relate to you (as far as age, fitness, condition, etc applies), and then demo whatever you can!

That said, for me, interested in the smaller blades (Ke Nalu wiki vs. Maliko, Kialoa Methane), at least semi-flex shafts (XTuf is sounding REAL good :-)), and hopefully an adjustable shaft option (for changing between surf sessions & coastal poke-around sessions).

Folks, thanks for your input & opinions!  It all helps!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on April 18, 2012, 07:39:09 PM
We love you too Mike!... ;D

I've always said the same NH. I think it's really tough to know exactly what is going to work for someone else. There are some generalities but even minor differences in individuals prevent exact recommendations. Generalities....more flex=easier on the shoulders, but arm length, technique, etc. all play major roles in what aches and what doesn't as well.

Boludo...Back pain, I don't think flex would hurt, an extended handle would let you play with a wide range of lengths to see if standing straighter could help.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 18, 2012, 10:11:03 PM
 Well, I put my Maliko downwinder together after work, and it was perfect length as was, so no cutting was needed. Tipped the scale at 16.8 oz, compared to the 29.8oz of the "Club" I've been so happy with for the past year. Did my usual upwind/downwind short run into 12-18 knot S.E. wind and light rain on my 12' Glide. Night & day difference from what I'm used to!
 
 Like everyone else has mentioned, the smaller diameter shaft took a bit of getting used to, as was the amount of flex in the shaft, as my former had none. Very cool to feel the "snap back" after it flexes, and the boost it gives in doing so. The light weight had me paying close attention on the recovery, as it seemed like the wind wanted to make it fly away from my hands when feathering. But, the weight (lack of) made my cadence pick up noticeably, and I made good time upwind. Didn't take too long and it felt right at home. Still need to work on switching hands, as it felt like I was slower in doing that compared to my heavier paddle.
 
 On the return half, I was able to connect on a few small runners (1'-1.5'), where before (in light winds) I'd usually stall out on top of one, and couldn't make the drop into the next one. Just dig a little harder and faster, and I was there. Way cool ;D.  Will set up the Molokai on the Flex 90 shaft tomorrow, and give it a go. Can't wait to try them both on flat water around my course to see if my time improves. Once again Bill, big Mahalos and hope you had a safe trip back!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2012, 08:56:21 AM
I'm back in Hood River, it's overcast and the river looks DAMN cold. But it's nice to be here, and great to be back with my girl. Sam is pretty happy too, I thought he was going to jump out of his skin in the airport.

Our Ke Nalu dealers are really lighting up. We don't have that many but they sure are ordering a lot of paddles.

This morning I'm headed to the warehouse to look at a shipment of factory seconds. We have a substantial reject rate since our blades come out of the mold finished. Sometimes there's a blemish where the carbon fiber isn't pressed tight enough against the mold, so it shows as a "dry" spot. A lot of blades are sanded and clearcoated, ours aren't, but that's what we decided to do to these.

We've got about 200 of them (I did say we have a pretty high reject rate didn't I?) and I'm going to see if they're something we want to sell. If we do they will be at a special price. I'll let you folks know first in case you want to pick up an extra blade at a discount. I've heard they're actually "prettier" but I want to see for myself, weigh them, and cut a couple up so I can see that there aren't any non-cosmetic flaws.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2012, 09:11:28 AM
That Bill is in the air back to America as we speak and he will probably weigh in when he gets there but I would think that the Maliko would be your best bet.  Molokai sounds too big for you and Wiki is pretty small.  But another factor besides blade size is shaft flex and with that there are at least three options.

You know in the technique threads there is always mention of forward bend and as it seems obvious that forward bend may be hard on a lower back, maybe increased shaft length might help your injury maintenance.  I don't like bending over either and use a longer shaft for my height.  It may not be conducive to the best technique or even be easy to handle in surfing situations but better for the back.  

We all have physical issues that sometimes have us stray from ideals and deal with them in the best manner possible.  As that big redneck says on cable, "get'er done"  Good luck.

Have you tried DMSO?

Yeah, you can tell by the inspired spelling. I like the iPad/iPhone spell checker about 60 percent of the time, but it certainly comes up with some doozies. Like Bolide for Boludo
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2012, 12:29:57 PM
OK, I inspected every single one. They're nice. About 20 grams heavier on average, though with the 10 percent weight variance typical for composite manufacture some of the seconds are lighter than some of the Elites--particularly the Molokais. The logos are a little fuzzed on some of them, on the plus side since the logos are under the clearcoat they won't get dinged up like our standard ones do.

I cut up two of them, they look perfect. The defect is purely cosmetic and the clearcoat eliminates the defect and makes the blade a little "deeper". The factory scrapped everything that was more than a dry spot--dimples and such--so we only wound up with about 150. It's nice to work with a factory that might be even a little fussier about quality than we are.

More about this on the website soon. They'll be about $50 less, either as a component blade or a complete paddle. Available to dealers as well, of course. But all we have is 150 and it will probably be six months before we accumulate a useful quantity of seconds again.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: VonR on April 19, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
Bill,

I finally ordered a new paddle from your website last night. It should be waiting for me when I return to San Diego next week. I look forward to giving it a go in the surf.

Aloha,
Jeff
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on April 19, 2012, 02:39:25 PM
Bill, what do these 'seconds' consist of?  Blades only?  are they Elite or XTuf?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2012, 05:35:52 PM
You will be able to buy them either way, but the price is going to be 50 bucks off the blade, retail. They are elite blades. The xTuf blades are already made this way--they get sanded, painted black and clearcoated. These are elite blades that get a light sanding to make the paint adhere and then clearcoated.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on April 19, 2012, 05:37:58 PM
 Glad you made it back to HR safe and sound, Bill...
 Received my latest order on Tuesday and in it was a nice little "Thank You" note for being a dealer. What really made it nicer was the fact that it (the note) was hand written. You guys are "Quality One"... Keep up the good work, Ke Nalu. YOU ALL ROCK!!!      Paddle on,     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on April 19, 2012, 05:58:32 PM
Couple more questions about the xTuf.  Re: xTuf blade, other than added toughness (and a lower price), any other benefits?  And just how much tougher is the blade?  Last question is for Bill and/or Bob, re: shipments to the Northeast, are they completed paddles of various types, or will components be available also?   IOW, if I wanted a Wiki blade with an xTuf shaft, and an extended Ergo-T handle, would I be better off ordering from the website (as opposed to trying to track down that certain combo)?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on April 19, 2012, 06:51:36 PM
Glad you made it back to HR safe and sound, Bill...
 Received my latest order on Tuesday and in it was a nice little "Thank You" note for being a dealer. What really made it nicer was the fact that it (the note) was hand written. You guys are "Quality One"... Keep up the good work, Ke Nalu. YOU ALL ROCK!!!      Paddle on,     JD

 What JD said, I also thought was very cool. Plus, the hang tags are a nice touch ;).

 Set up my Molokai this morning and went for a quick paddle before work. (can definitely feel the difference between the Flex 90 shaft and the XTuff!) Made great time upwind to my turn-around point (light wind, but into incoming current), and good speed coming back. Cadence was slower than the Maliko and it felt slower, but the watch doesn't lie. I was on a different board (new BIC 12'6" Touring, review coming soon), but it clocked the same time as my 12' Glide on my 1.3 NM course (3.9 kts). Need to get both paddles out on my 14' Glide and see how they feel there.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 20, 2012, 07:43:10 AM
NH -- Ke Nalu's are ALWAYS just components since they go together with hot glue. A couple of minutes with a hairdryer and you can make any combo you want.

I thought offering components might be hard on dealers since it could make for inventory issues but most of the dealers seem pretty happy with being able to build any paddle a customer wants by swapping around parts.

The xTuf blades handle impacts better because fiberglass generally crushes rather than cracks. When you whack an xTuf blade hard enough you get a soft, fuzzy depression that spreads out the impact force and cushions it. Beats the heck out of knocking a chip out of it, but it's not an improvement to the blade.

Price and impact resistance are the benefits of the xTuf blade--well, that and they're really pretty. The Elite blades are lighter, stronger. and gorgeous, but they don't like impacts.

Rain and JD -- one of the many benefits of having polite, capable and classy women running the company. You wouldn't get those thoughtful niceties from a knucklehead like me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on April 23, 2012, 01:47:19 PM
I was out paddling this weekend and had the Maliko. It was lousy weather. Fog, blowing hard from the north and cold as usual. The spring hasn't really arrived in full force just yet. I had to choke down a bit when I paddled upwind and use some power to move. The paddle slightly wobbled when I did that. Then I remembered what people said in this thread. Something about that I shouldn't hold the paddle so hard. I relaxed the grip and... No more wobble! It was as usual. The paddle straightened itself. Brilliant! I still had to paddle hard though but I didn't get so tired in my hands and arms as I would have been holding harder.

Then I got out of the water to have a little rest before going out again. The paddle felt somewhat heavier. Strange? I tipped it from side to side and could hear some water inside the shaft. Took my Wiki for the rest of the day.
When I got home I took my heat gun and removed the blade and emptied the Maliko. This time I when I put the blade back I was very thourogh. I heated everything and put the blade back. Twisted it so that it would be glue everywhere it should and cealed it properly as in the video. I hadn't done it alright the first time and now I had to redo it. Now it is excellent again! I think it is a very good thing to being able to fix something so easy. I wonder what should have happened if my old carbon paddle would take in water in a joint. Probably not that easily corrected.

Thanks again for great paddles!

Henrik F

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on April 23, 2012, 06:27:21 PM
Henrik...I haven't had any leaks at the blades but I had a leak in one of my handles the other day. I've been adjusting it frequently with all the demos I've been doing and for my own experiments with length.
I think anyone with an extended handle should get themself a hot glue gun too. Easier to add more glue with it than a blow dryer. I pulled out the handle and there was a small rim of glue on the inside of the shaft at the lowest spot the handle inserts. I took it out with a bamboo skewer, added more glue and back together in just a couple of minutes. It really is great to be able to easily work on them yourself if necessary. I think about what I had to do to another paddle when a handle broke (twice)....the reason it's too short for me now.... >:(
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PT Woody on April 23, 2012, 06:29:58 PM
Hey Bill, is there any further updates on the secondary choke handle you were toying with?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2012, 07:33:10 PM
I've been playing with it a bit, but mostly I've been waiting to get back to Hood River to have access to my machine shop so I can make some better prototypes. I want to make the handle so it can be locked in any position. I'm back now, so I'll get on it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2012, 09:32:42 PM
Factory Seconds are up on the site--$50 off the cost of either the blade alone or a complete paddle. As I mentioned before these are cosmetically flawed blades--generally they showed a "dry" spot when they came out of the mold. They've been lightly sanded and clearcoated to eliminate the flaw. They look great, but thats not how we make Elite blades so we sell them as seconds.

Our normal warranty applies except for cosmetic issues. One reason we don't use clear coat on our elite blades is that may yellow if it's exposed to a lot of UV. The blades look great, they weigh about 20 grams more and are a bit more scuff and scratch resistant--especially the logo since it's under the clearcoat. Our normal logo is screened directly onto the blade and scratches pretty easily.

Go to the site, select the products tab and select Specials

Limited supplies, when we're out, we're out until we accumulate another bunch.

Wiki: 17
Maliko: 94
Molokai: 41
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 23, 2012, 10:30:18 PM
Bill,

Just put my order in!  Thanks!

I'm excited about the Wiki.  I currently have the Methane but wanted a smaller paddle for surf and to relieve a little bit of stress on lower to mid back area.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on April 24, 2012, 04:05:43 AM
Shipping for a blade seems a bit steep at 35.  Is the website using an algorithm for a whole paddle?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2012, 07:07:50 AM
yeah, got to fix that.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2012, 10:07:41 AM
I forgot to mention, if you've been considering adding an xTuf shaft you might want to use the Custom Paddle builder on the "specials" page and get a whole paddle with a factory second blade. That winds up being $285 for the whole package vs. $187 for a shaft. Pick a different blade and handle than the one you have and you have 8 possible combinations and two paddles. That appeals to my penny-pincher heart.

I'm pretty pleased with the xTuf shafts. We're going to have a slightly stiffer one soon too. I think it will come in about 90Flex. We'll probably discontinue our 60Flex and have 100Flex, 90Flex in 3K Twill, and 80Flex and 70 Flex in unidirectional bias wound.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on April 24, 2012, 10:16:18 AM

I'm pretty pleased with the xTuf shafts. We're going to have a slightly stiffer one soon too. I think it will come in about 90Flex. We'll probably discontinue our 60Flex and have 100Flex, 90Flex in 3K Twill, and 80Flex and 70 Flex in unidirectional bias wound.

Funny, I was thinking just the other day. The xTuf is so good, some of those other shafts could go away.

Didn't Fiberspar use reflex energy as a sales pitch to market their most expensive masts back in the day?

xTuf = major reflex energy  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 24, 2012, 12:17:09 PM
I forgot to mention, if you've been considering adding an xTuf shaft you might want to use the Custom Paddle builder on the "specials" page and get a whole paddle with a factory second blade. That winds up being $285 for the whole package vs. $187 for a shaft. Pick a different blade and handle than the one you have and you have 8 possible combinations and two paddles. That appeals to my penny-pincher heart.

I'm pretty pleased with the xTuf shafts. We're going to have a slightly stiffer one soon too. I think it will come in about 90Flex. We'll probably discontinue our 60Flex and have 100Flex, 90Flex in 3K Twill, and 80Flex and 70 Flex in unidirectional bias wound.

So I'm a little confused. This is what I did with my order, let me know if I should have done it differently. Wiki second blade, ergo T, and xTuf.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2012, 10:23:23 AM
Looks good to me. You'll be fine, Josh.

Oh, and I meant to say 80Flex for the stiffer xTuf. We'll see though. I'm pretty pumped about the xTuf shafts, and they are lighter than I thought. I'll have component weights up shortly. xTuf with a Wiki is a surprisingly good combination. Pulls like butter.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on April 25, 2012, 12:11:54 PM
 Dudes!!!    I thought I was in love with the Elite Moliko 100flex but have spent the past few days paddling with the x-Tuf Wiki paddle. I'm thinking I may be in love with more than one paddle  ;D... But "Sweetness" should have been its name, Bill...   Paddle on,    JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 25, 2012, 01:25:49 PM
JD,

That's sweet music to my ears.  I just ordered one the other day with that combo.  I can't wait any longer, too excited. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on April 25, 2012, 01:40:07 PM
Dang, you guys have me excited to try that combo!

It's nice being a distributor because I have all the Ke Nalu models to "test".

Lee



www.kenalupaddles.com (http://www.kenalupaddles.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2012, 03:21:47 PM
Yeah, I'm not generally a Wiki fan, just not a high-cadence guy. But there's something about that combo that mellows the wiki out and makes it just right. I think the high-cadence loons will still like the 100 Flex better, but for us "normal" folks the xTuf does something special. I can't put my finger on it, but it's weirdly smooth.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on April 28, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
PBill.. Scotty asked me on another thread which flex is on my Molokai.  It was the 100 wasn't it?  Not my xTuf blade the stiffer blade.  Couldn't remember if it was 90 or 100. 

Hope you're good .  Great conditions for M2M today but I'm out of the water.  More small pre-cancers burned off the back of my neck earlier this last week.  Gotta be good.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 28, 2012, 12:28:28 PM
Yeah, your Molokai is the 100Flex. I don't think I had any 90's with me in Maui.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Southbay on April 28, 2012, 03:07:13 PM
Bill, I wanted to let you know how much I love your paddle and the hot glue system you have created.  I use your Maliko almost everyday for surfing, and when I bought the Maliko 90 I also bought the extended handle, but I have never used it.  

Last weekend I raced in the SUP for Clean Water race in Santa Monica, and I decided to try out the Extended Handle.....just used the hairdryer on the handle, extended it out till it was as long as my "normal" Werner race paddle and let the glue harden.  I was a little nervous that I had never tried this before and I was planning on using it during a 5 mile race, but it felt pretty solid, so I went for it.

Wow, what a great paddle for racing!  My Werner is so stiff in comparison, and the shaft grip is so much more important than during surfing.  Oh, got 15th overall out of a field of I think 60....4th in my division, and my best 5 mile time so far of 61 minutes....on my 14ft Richmond.

Thanks again,

Southbay
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SEA on April 28, 2012, 03:55:39 PM
 
Hope you're good .  Great conditions for M2M today but I'm out of the water.  More small pre-cancers burned off the back of my neck earlier this last week.  Gotta be good.

Bill  you living on Maui you should definitely check out this Video.  Let's just say I know for a fact it works.....  I have first handedly seen it work.   AMAZING   skin cancer is killed in weeks.

The Rick Simpson Story was made possible by Rick Simpson and video producer Christian Laurette... made for free to teach YOU how to heal yourself of disease and illness using cannabinoids.

RUN FROM THE CURE - Full Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI#)





Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 28, 2012, 05:11:40 PM
Glad you like it Southbay, and congratulations. We've had very few problems with the hot glue system--to be precise, four people have got in touch with us with a glue problem--all solved by reheating the joint and sometimes adding a dab more glue. I've tested the joint to 200 foot pounds of torque.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on April 28, 2012, 05:37:36 PM
Sea... Thanks for the vid.  Yes this slash and burn isn't fun.   Interesting...  Are you saying there might be some of this stuff here on Maui?  My experience is limited but the stuff I've seen, many many years ago in a galaxy  far away, looked like it could have doubled as the hot glue for PBill's Ke Nalu paddles.   But maybe we should start another thread on this rather than hijacking PBill's blade thread.  

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: corlot on April 28, 2012, 07:01:58 PM
Does anyone know where I can get a Maliko in Maui? I will be heading there 3rd week of May and would like to pick one up. Also wondering on the stiffness between the 90 and 100 shaft? My shoulders get worked with my current paddle and workout schedule.
Thanks!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 28, 2012, 08:45:48 PM
Hi Tech has them. Or Hook up with Boyum and hire him for a Maliko--he's got a couple you can try before you buy and you won't scare the crap out of yourself doing your first Maliko run.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: corlot on April 29, 2012, 08:24:51 AM
That is great! Thanks Ponobill! My brother and I are dreaming of doing a Maliko run. Do you think I should call first to check available stock? I am thinking of not bringing a paddle and just buying the Ke Nalu when I am there.

Is Boyum on the zone? We will for sure contact him.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 29, 2012, 08:35:40 AM
Boyum is Headmount, so yeah, he's on the Zone, one comment above you on this page. Bill has gotten really good at taking newbies on Malikos. and hasn't lost one yet.

You can contact Steve Roan at Hi Tech. Steve is a Ke Nalu fan and very knowledgeable about SUP in general. Their website is http://www.htmaui.com (http://www.htmaui.com). I don't know what their current stock is, while I was on Maui I was supplying them from the inventory of paddles I had shipped to Maui, so it doesn't show up in our eCommerce system like most dealer inventory does. So it might be a good idea to contact him ahead of time.

Good guys to talk to about board rental too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: corlot on April 29, 2012, 12:13:30 PM
Thank you for all the help! I am stoked on trying your great product.
Cheers,
Corey
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on April 30, 2012, 11:43:55 AM
My xTuf Wiki Kenalu just arrived.  I will hit the surf tomorrow and give review.  So far I like it.  Beautiful paddle and I like the little ribs keeping the paddle from slipping.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on April 30, 2012, 05:28:27 PM
My xTuf Wiki Kenalu just arrived.  I will hit the surf tomorrow and give review.  So far I like it.  Beautiful paddle and I like the little ribs keeping the paddle from slipping.

You're gonna love the "Wicked Wiki", Boludo (wicked because it's wickedly fast in your hands)... She's a very 'snappy' little thing that I like a little more each time I surf with her... I have both the Elite Maliko (100f) and the x-Tuf Wiki and can't get over that snap you get from the Wiki (IMHO)...      Paddle on,     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on May 01, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
So for all you folks who are loving the 'x-Tuf Wiki', did you get the x-Tuf blade too, or just the x-Tuf shaft.  Wondering if there is much of a difference between the 2 blades when running the x-Tuf shaft.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on May 01, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
PB,
What is this 'secondary choke handle' that I've hear about?  Is that going to be a 'adjust while in the water' type deal?

Any ballpark idea when those might come to market?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 01, 2012, 05:57:06 PM
Adjust on the fly. I like it mostly as a rest--a way to change the arms and shoulder muscles I'm engaging. You can see why if you put your hand in the upper handle position as you hold a T, then rotate it as you would if you held the shaft. The weakness of a "chocked down" hold is controlling the blade, but if you stop trying to control it a Ke Nalu blade pulls striaght anyway. The second weakness is that you have to grip the shaft to keep your hand from sliding. A flared handle (like modern ski pole grips) helps that. So that's about it. Coming soon to a Ke Nalu dealer near you.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on May 01, 2012, 09:19:28 PM
So for all you folks who are loving the 'x-Tuf Wiki', did you get the x-Tuf blade too, or just the x-Tuf shaft.  Wondering if there is much of a difference between the 2 blades when running the x-Tuf shaft.

I have the Maliko xTuf blade on xTuf shaft. Didn't see the weight difference as any issue, so the added cost for an all carbon blade wasn't very appealing to me.  ;)

The weight of this paddle is unreal. I don't recall the specific number, but it was sub 550 grams when cut with the ergo handle. I think it might have been 535g.

I mainly surf, so if the added benefits of fiberglass blades are as advertised, for me, this is a great paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on May 02, 2012, 12:46:11 AM
I would also like to get myself one of these paddles but I live in the Netherlands.

I had a look at Bongo:(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xXQTo7TWhcM/T6DfrXeJZKI/AAAAAAAAAA8/ii1ac2PD0l4/w671-h587-k/BONGO.jpg)

That is a lot of money!

I saw there is Norwegian Distributor but what about the rest of Europe?


Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on May 02, 2012, 01:19:50 AM
Yep, PB - how is progress going with getting this gear to Europe? You asked a while ago for suggestions for dealers (rather than distributors) in the UK, and I PM'ed you one. But he says that he hasn't heard anything.

He sells stuff to people from all over Europe, and it wouldn't be any harder for him - or someone else - to sell to soepkip in the Netherlands than to someone in the UK. As I'm sure you already know, there are no sales tax/import issues with sellng between different countries within Europe.

Currently, the price of getting a Ke Nalu paddle here would make it easily the most expensive paddle you could buy - by some margin. That is tough when there is no chance to see or try one first, and there are cheaper and well-trusted premium brands readily available who have a good history of customer service etc.

How about making it a bit easier for us to give you our hard-earned cash?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 02, 2012, 06:11:24 AM
I'll get back to work on it. I though Bongo was going to be more of a solution than it is. Sorry to be so slow, but this is a bootstrap startup.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on May 02, 2012, 08:53:25 AM
 I ordered a Wiki a few days ago, so I'll have all 3 blades on hand and available for people to check out and try. All of this 42 degree (air temp) and rain isn't very good for getting folks out on the water quite yet though. At least the water has warmed up to 45!
 
 I've reserved our local pool for a 2 hour block on the Saturday, the 19th, so I can have my first "Demo Night". Hopefully this will give some interested people a chance to try Stand Up without going into cardiac arrest when they fall in ;D.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 02, 2012, 09:10:44 AM
Sheesh, and I'm feeling brave about falling into the 50 degree Columbia

Hey, Area 10, I did send Simon an email back on March 12, no reply. Perhaps there is a better email for him--I used
sales@2xs.co.uk

And while it might be a little cumbersome, our friends in Norway just received a small shipment (15 paddles). I don't know what shipping would be from Norway, but I guess you wouldn't have to worry about import duties:

Norway, Sweden, and Denmark
aloha.no AS +47 40004555
e-mail: surf@aloha.no
http://aloha.no (http://aloha.no)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on May 02, 2012, 09:41:44 AM
Just got my xTuf shaft (with Maliko 2nd) to supplement my Wiki/90% shaft. 

Updating my previous flex measurements comparing the QB SSI-36 shaft (supplied with 90 sq. in. blades) and the KeNalu 90% shaft, the xTuf shows significantly more flex:

Deflection at center of 50 inch section starting 4" up from blade end under 35 lb load.

QB SSI-36 shaft  -- 0.53 inches
KeNalu 90% shaft -- 0.54 inches
KeNalu xTuf shaft -- 0.94 inches

Now I can't decide whether to put the xTuf on on the Wiki or the Maliko.  Should I go for an all-out easy on the joints combo with the Wiki, or balance out the stiffer Maliko with the xtTuff?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 02, 2012, 09:47:21 AM
Takes ten minutes to swap them out. Try it both ways. You do need to try the wiki combo, just for curiosity's sake. It's a very strange feeling. As one of my friends said: "I forgot I was paddling".  It's oddly smooth, though smooth isn't really the right word.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on May 02, 2012, 10:07:17 AM
One consideration in swapping blades is that the Maliko blade is an inch longer than the Wiki.  I do have an extended handle, but I'm still trying to preserve the length of the shaft at the upper end where the most flex would be.  I guess that means I should start my new xTuf shaft with the Wiki and see if I like it before cutting it down for the Maliko blade.

If you ever have have time, as these paddles go more mainstream, you might need to make a table that gives recommended blade/shaft combos based on paddler height on one axis and usage (race, cruise, surf, downwind) on the other axis.  Each block in the table could have a diagonal division with recommended shaft on top and blade on bottom.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 02, 2012, 10:24:27 AM
We're working on one, mostly for dealers. Several of our dealers are particularly entranced with the customer service aspect of helping a customer put together a very customized paddle. Some of these folks are running way ahead of us. When we did the "custom paddle" option on the website several dealers were really pleased because it makes it easy for them to balance inventory. All they need to do is  include the custom paddles in the next order that they created for a customers by swiping an xTuf shaft and mating it to an Elite blade. The customer gets the paddle right away and they get the replacement parts to maintain their inventory at maximum discount. I guess that's kind of obvious but I didn't think of it.

I assumed dealers would think building a custom paddle was a pain, but so far every one I've talked to is enthusiastic. They consider the consulting element to be a critical part of gaining loyal customers. I guess my lack of a retail background is showing. Sounds great to me--it's why I shop at specialty stores instead of big box.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 02, 2012, 11:00:02 AM
Just e-mailed my dealer (no, not that dealer... he and I communicate through a runner and through messages left in hollow pumpkins [h/t Whitaker Chambers] ... my Ke Nalu dealer)... can't wait to get an X-Tuff to try with the Wiki, the Moliko and the Molokai blades.  It will be interesting to feel the dynamic with a low volume surfing board... might be a different perspective than the distance and DW perspective.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on May 02, 2012, 11:13:12 AM
Just e-mailed my dealer (no, not that dealer... he and I communicate through a runner and through messages left in hollow pumpkins [h/t Whitaker Chambers] ... my Ke Nalu dealer)... can't wait to get an X-Tuff to try with the Wiki, the Moliko and the Molokai blades.  It will be interesting to feel the dynamic with a low volume surfing board... might be a different perspective than the distance and DW perspective.

Tim


I think it (xTuf) has a greater impact with a low volume surfing SUP, than my downwind raceboard. Almost every surf session I slingshot into at least one wave I thought for sure I had missed. How did I ever surf without it.  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on May 02, 2012, 11:18:35 AM

Now I can't decide whether to put the xTuf on on the Wiki or the Maliko. 


Gotta love hot glue. You can try both  ;D

I've tried both. It's Maliko and xTuf for me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 02, 2012, 11:21:29 AM
Anyone have any feedback on a setup using the xTuf shaft for general cruising/distance paddles?  Not necessarily racing.. but wouldn't mind hearing if anyone has tried the xTuf in a race setting either.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: melonhead on May 02, 2012, 11:43:17 AM
Bill,

PM sent.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 02, 2012, 12:35:53 PM
OK...I need to get my xtuf and Molokai together.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 02, 2012, 12:43:11 PM
Bob, what setup did you use in the Charles last weekend?  And what setup do you generally surf with? 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: firesurf on May 02, 2012, 03:10:30 PM
Ke Nalu is on my next    "item to buy list".
I thought I had decided on which paddle....
(Maliko elite blade, 100 carbon shaft, ergo T handle, with extended ergo handle for cruising)   

Now, after reading all the great feedback on the XTuf, I'm looking for "Zoner" opinions. 
Already have a couple of decent carbon paddles, but not a KeNalu.
- Kialoa Methane
- C4 Pohaku 9" Carbon Paddle

Primary use would be for surfing, but will use the extending ergo T for coastal cruising.
Had shoulder surgery a year ago.   5'8"  @ 165lbs
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on May 02, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
My review:

Definition of Amazing: Xtuf Wiki

So as you can tell, I love it!!  Completely happy with it.

So my first impression of it was that it was extremely light.  Total length of mine is just a tad under 76".  I'm around 5'8" and 160 - 168 pounds.  So about 8" over head.

First impression in the water was that it felt a bit a toyish.  I don't say that in a bad way, but it felt light and paddled smooth.

The ribs on the shaft were a very different feel but I liked it.  Your hand does not slip.  If you move your hand up it will not slide.  Moving it down does slide.  It took a little bit for me to get used to the feel but I really like it.  The ergo-T (handle) is cumfy for my size of hands.  Weird but it's comfortable where my fingertips rest.

Flex:  After previous Zoners stated how flexy they were, I think I was over prepared.  I didn't feel a crazy flex but definitely did feel it.  I'm glad it wasn't over flexy, it was just right.  I wouldn't change the flex one bit if I had a magic wand to do so. 

Blade:  very refined and does move through the water like cutting butter.  I'm in love with the size of the Wiki blade.  PLENTY of power for a smaller blade.  I rode the first day on my 7'10 board and the second day on my 8'5".  Was AWESOME with the board and the higher cadence made catching waves a breeze.

Now for the best of all.  I bought this combo of a paddle in hopes to ease my back pain and right shoulder pain from previous moto x injuries.  I'm coming off a Kialoa Methane which I loved but lately every time I've been out, my back would feel like it was going to rip open it was so tight.  I took my 7'10 board out in some chop at SanO and did 2 back to back 2 hour sessions.  1st session, 2 hours, rest for 20 minutes to down a sandwich and yogurt, then off again for another 2 hours.  My back NEVER even felt tight or tense.  My shoulder felt great.  I could not believe it.  Woke up in the morning and felt amazing, no soreness or tension at all.  Went out the next day at my "secret" spot in my 8'5" and surfed for about 2 hours.  Zero problems with back and shoulder. 

Conclusion:  I love you PonoBill!!!  You did an amazing job with those paddles.  Now I need to get one for racing.

Oh and cutting the shaft was a piece of cake.  Used a heat gun to heat glue and it was good to go.  I love the hot glue idea.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: firesurf on May 02, 2012, 07:11:48 PM
Boludo.   Thanks for your review of the KeNalu Wiki Xtuf.    Is the blade an Xtuf  or an carbon elite?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 02, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
Boludo,  would you stick with the xTuf shaft for racing or go with something stiffer?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on May 02, 2012, 07:38:05 PM
Boludo.   Thanks for your review of the KeNalu Wiki Xtuf.    Is the blade an Xtuf  or an carbon elite?

Carbon blade.

Boludo,  would you stick with the xTuf shaft for racing or go with something stiffer?

Not sure yet.  I really am thinking the xTuf but not sure yet.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on May 02, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
I'd also like to add that if you are the type of paddler that has to slide your lower hand up to the handle on switching sides, you can't really do it on the xTuf.  Your hand sticks almost like glue when trying to slide it up.  not too bad when hands are dry but when wet, it seems to stick even more.  I like it and learned to adapt to it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 02, 2012, 10:30:43 PM
You can tune the grip up or eliminate it entirely with a little super fine sandpaper.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 03, 2012, 09:00:55 PM
Kayadogg...that was Molokai Elite, 100% shaft, extended ergo-T. I learned a lot about that paddle Sunday. I was digging hard into the wind doing the baxter stroke and really gripping the shaft hard and the blade started to wobble. I calmed down my grip, took shorter, faster strokes and not only did the paddle stop wobbling I noticeably smoothed out the board and picked up speed. Momentum is everything when the wind is slapping you in the face.

I wish I could stay down in that stroke position longer in those conditions. My back is too old for that crouch for long though.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 03, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
Yup, when you feel a wobble, it's you doing it, keeping the paddle from self-correcting. Most paddles you have to tighten your grip to stop a wobble, with a Ke Nalu you have to loosen it.

I paddled an Elite Wiki with an xTuf shaft today. Really felt good. I still prefer bigger blades, but boy is that a smooth combination. Extremely quiet too, I could be kidding myself but I think it's somehow quieter than the 100 Flex Wiki. No idea why that would be so. I think my speed is pretty much the same, but my cadence is a little higher. Not as much as with a elite 100Flex shaft Wiki, but a bit higher. I think if I have shoulder problems that's going to be my rehab combination.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fishman on May 04, 2012, 06:37:10 AM
So I assume the Xtuf shaft on the Malokai blade, does not have the same "magic" (for lack of better word) as the Wiki Blade and the Xtuf shaft?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 04, 2012, 06:50:31 AM
I think it's doing the same basic thing--giving a bit of cushion when you first pull against the catch, storing a little energy that it releases at the end of the power pull. With the big Molokai that translates mostly to the feeling of launching the board. The cushioning is nice and it makes that big catch easier on the shoulders, but it's still big. The wiki is a much smaller blade, so the overall feeling is smoothness. The jerk of the catch goes away and the power tapers off smoothly at the end of the stroke. Although the blade is still just about as quick there's a lot less abruptness.

This is all subtlety, all the blades very smooth, and all the shafts have substantial flex and shock adsorption. It's just amplified with the Elite Wiki/xTuf combo.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: firesurf on May 04, 2012, 10:01:02 AM
Boludo,  Are you still loving the wiki?  I still can't decide between the wiki or the maliko.  Fairly certain on the xtuf shaft though....
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on May 04, 2012, 11:57:59 AM
Boludo,  Are you still loving the wiki?  I still can't decide between the wiki or the maliko.  Fairly certain on the xtuf shaft though....


Absolutely happy with my decision. Wouldn't go with anything different. I have good upper body strength but still prefer the wiki for surfing.  I like quick short paddles to catch waves and this does that. Provides plenty of power and my body has been thanking me for the change. I love the smaller blades but that's just my preference.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 05, 2012, 08:38:29 AM
With all this talk about blade sizes, and more than a bit of confusion I think, it probably makes sense to restate my belief that cadence isn't something you choose--cadence chooses you. It has to do with how you're wired. A faster cadence doesn't necessarily make you a faster paddler. I can do the math for you if you like, but it doesn't.

What it boils down to is that some people like to be in a lower gear on a bike and spin the pedals, some folks are comfortable in the next higher gear, cranking a little slower. So who's the fastest?

The one whose name is Lance Armstrong.

Both have an advantage, in cycling and in paddling. In cycling the cadence is a matter of keeping the human machine in it's zone of greatest output, and that changes with body shape, training style, and muscle composition. In paddling the faster cadence person can accelerate a little quicker--they have less coasting time, and coasting is decelerating. The lower cadence paddler is a little more efficient--less slip, smaller vortexes, and less tip turbulence. Who has the advantage? The difference is too small to matter either way.

I did an eBook some time ago on choosing a paddle that covers this in more depth. Here's a link to it. http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/ebooks/choosepaddlecomp.pdf (http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/ebooks/choosepaddlecomp.pdf)

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PaddleCrazy on May 05, 2012, 09:43:55 AM
While I apologize for posting a competitor in your thread PB, I think that the video helps graphically explain what you're describing above....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e3uxyS-art8#!

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 05, 2012, 10:26:25 AM
It certainly does. it's an awesome idea, one that I swiped to do some of our measurement. When we allude to our competitors deep experience in that eBook we're talking about Quickblade, Kialoa and Werner. It's a great thing to have such capable competitors, it sets the bar high.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on May 05, 2012, 02:48:29 PM
Bill,  I'm not doing the math on this and yes I completely see where you're coming from.  However, lets talk small SUPs with pretty much no glide.  Seems to me that a higher cadence is quicker because we are talking acceleration not top speed.  With my smallest sup, I sink it pretty good (not quite like Strand Leper though).  I continue to go smaller and smaller on blade size because it allows me to keep the board moving with a higher cadence paddle.  As soon as I let up, the board pretty much stops.  Another example is when I'm caught in the inside on my small SUP, I will prone it past some of the waves because I'm much quicker using 2 hands to keep the board motoring through.  So using a larger blade will initially give you a bigger push but maintaining it is a "B".  Then again, Strand Leper likes the bigger blades for surfing.  That's where we agree to disagree.  Your thoughts professor Bill?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 05, 2012, 05:43:54 PM
Absolutely, the advantage of a smaller blade is that the pull and recovery is quicker, so the board slows less. That's less obvious with a race board because they have more glide (which means they decelerate slower) but with a sinker a little more deceleration and you're dead in the water.

What surfers like Tim like is the big shove they can get from planting the blade and the ability to turn the board super quickly.

It is mostly a matter of style, you can accomplish the same thing with a small or large blade, you just do it differently.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Bulky on May 05, 2012, 09:37:24 PM
OK, Bill--here's a stupid question.  Is there a correct front and back for the ergo grip?  I thought it was gonna be pretty flat so I grabbed the skinny 14 footer for an open water paddle.  Ended up having a real crappy session today (more waves than I expected) and came home frustrated.  After sulking around a bit and muttering under my breath that I should have gone surfing, my wife said the magic words "if you're gonna be grouchy, why don't you go out and surf."

Ran to the garage and threw the surfboard on the roof.  Grabbed the heat gun and swapped out the extended handle for the ergo and drove off.  After a few strokes on the water, I noticed something didn't feel right.  I had reversed the handle from the way I'd had it before.  Didn't stop me and had a pretty redemptive time, but by the end I was wondering which way was actually right.  Given that I had "right" and "left" on my shoes much longer than most kids, I guess these kind of things confuse me. 

It's intended to have the flatter part against your palm, correct?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 05, 2012, 11:39:08 PM
Nope, the curved part goes against your palm. Sight across the flat at the blade to get it straight. The curved back fills your palm. If you've been doing it the other way it's what you're used to so it feels normal.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Bulky on May 06, 2012, 08:58:34 AM
Doh!  Next you're gonna tell me that the pointy end of the board is supposed to be in front...

Thanks!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 06, 2012, 10:01:41 AM
LOL...don't feel bad bulky. The first thing I did involving SUP was to build a paddle for Bill. Mahogany, Lyptus and Cedar, bookmatched faces on the blade, Mako shark inlay. Then I give it to Bill and he tells me the handle is backwards.....double DOH! Looks nice on the wall in the Ponohouse though... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on May 06, 2012, 05:45:06 PM
WRT to the discussion of blade size, Jamie Mitchell was using a 90 sq in blade yesterday.  Interesting because you might expect a bigger blade for short sprint races.  The races were only 8 minutes or so.

I am finding I am probably fastest on my wiki but I feel like I am pulling harder and working more on my larger blades.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 07, 2012, 06:28:52 AM
Just grabbed a Ke Nalu from Bob at Matunuck Surf Shop yesterday.  He's got them fully stocked if you're in the RI/MA/CT area.  Best part was he had a paddle built already but I wanted a different blade on it.  He took out his heat gun and within 2 minutes I had the paddle that I wanted, setup perfectly.  It was in the water about 20 minutes later. 

I bought the elite Maliko, 90 flex shaft and ergo handle.  This thing is sweet.  Time will tell but the initial test run was pretty awesome.  The 90 had more flex than I thought it would but maybe I was pulling too hard.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 07, 2012, 05:58:20 PM
Glad you finally got one dogg.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on May 10, 2012, 07:16:38 PM
Assuming the xTuf shaft does NOT have the same 'reverse sharkskin'  :) feature that the 'reuglar' shafts have?  If not, which regular shaft flex is most comparable to the xTuf?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JillRide45 on May 10, 2012, 07:34:19 PM
The xTuf does have some type of sharkskin, almost seems to be both directions??? Sure helps not to slip on the shaft like the QB paddles.  I did not like it the first day but after a week I am loving the grip and my hands are getting use to it.  And I am a slider, bottom hand slides up while the upper hand regrips below. 

I have been paddling a Wiki/xTuf for about a week and I am loving it.  What it feels like to me is the xTuf paddle builds up snap.  It is not flexy, or soft, but as the cadence picks up it seems to store energy and snap back, resulting in even faster cadence.  I know that sounds strange but that is exactly what I feel.  I am still working on changing my stroke for the KeNalu paddles.  Seems to me that with my other paddles there was an initial weighting of the paddle to try and initiate a firm catch, then twist.  With the KeNalu it seems to work great if as soon as the paddle is in, twist - the catch and hold will be there.

Cheers, Jill 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 10, 2012, 08:14:41 PM
The xTuf has the same sharkskin texture. It's made the same way, on the same mandrels. The only difference is that we use prepreg unidirectional carbon fiber for the xTuf, and prepreg 3K Twill for the Elite.

It's unidirectional--more obvious when it's wet, but your hand slides down easier than up.

Jill, you can tune the sharkskin if you like. The simplest way is to wax the shaft a little with warm water surf wax. The wax fills the little grooves, stays in place, and mitigates the grab while it maintains grip. You rarely have to rewax, in fact if you want to get rid of the wax you have to use hot water. It hides in the grooves.

If that's not enough you can sand it with superfine sandpaper. I use the sandpaper from Billiard supply stores that is used for making pool cues smooth. 1000 grit. The grip disappears very quickly, those grooves are less than .001", so test a few times as you go. I sanded off the grip in the area I wanted slide and left them where I wanted grip. Then I missed the grip and swapped out the shaft to use for prototypes--at least that's my story when Diane looks at the inventory.

That "snap" in the xTuf is from the way the fiber is wound. It "stacks" like a bow does--suddenly reaches a point where it's much harder to flex. So you get a little give, but after that it stores a lot more energy for every little bit of flex.

And you're absolutely right--early catch is one of the biggest differences in the Ke Nalu blade design. Well, that and it doesn't wobble.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 10, 2012, 11:20:41 PM
Incidentally, we're going to drop the 60Flex shaft and go with an xTuf and an xTuf S (for stiffer). The S will have one more wrap of vertical fiber. No price change, they'll cost us a few bucks more but managing the complication of the price sheet is worth just eating the difference. The flex numbers come out at about 70 and 80. so we'll have xTuf around 70 and 80 and Elite in 90 and 100. Probably have some 60Flex around for awhile, for people that don't like the shaft to stack--just to keep on flexing.

I view the xTuf S as just fine tuning. I don't expect it to be radically different from the xTuf though I'm sure I'll be wrong. Why would it be any different this time?

You hoid it here first. It will be a month before it makes it to the product page--they're being made right now.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 13, 2012, 10:22:43 AM
Fellow members of the Ke Nalu cult,

Paddles break.  In my three or so years of standup, I have broken five.  (Well, one four times and another once)...

It was about time for a paddle to break... and my Molokai popped on me the other day. 

My regular super light shaft, not my new X tuff.

It was a clean break... I think the carbon fiber may have been compromised on a rag doll over some rocks on Friday earlier in the day... I know that my legs, back, shoulder and feet were similarly compromised.  I was holding the paddle as I was spinning in the water, covering my face with the other hand and trying to "be shallow" and felt my paddle "clank" a few stones rather violently.

It gave new meaning to the "layback paddle snap" move that I like to do on my frontside.

It snapped pretty (amazingly, actually) clean, (layback, paddle dig, contort body, SNAP, fuc*!)...

The super amazingly cool thing is that I was building a paddle for my buddy for his birthday and I had just ordered an X Tuff shaft for him... but my paddle broke about six inches from the top... and my buddy is about six inches shorter than I am... so my bro gets the regular shaft instead of the Xtuff shaft (I inspected the rest of the paddle and did some "testing" to make sure that there were no more compromised areas)... and I will be forced to try out the X tuff shaft...

My buddy Corran offered me the use of one of his paddles... as I hadn't had time to adjust my distance paddle down... but I told him I would rather use a six inch too long Ke Nalu than one of his paddles...

I had just switched back to my old surf mobile (repo'd from my son, who earned a vehicle due to some amazing accomplishments that would sound way too braggadocious if I discussed them herein)... and had no blow dryer in the car!  The 120 outlet didn't get enough juice to the dryer for an "on the fly" adjustment, and I didn't feel like scrounging for an outlet in the neighborhood above Tim's NW secret spot... ("Hello Ma'am, I know its early, but can I show you the wonders of the Ke Nalu paddle?  No, perhaps I can interest you in a money making opportunity for you and your friends... no, it does not involve network marketing...").  I just went for it... VERY hard to adjust to a longer paddle on a marginally stable board, but after a few strokes, it was all good.

Doing some paddle adjusting today.  Going to try the X Tuff and the regular shaft before I replace the broken shaft.

Just figured that I should post about the break, given my relentless pimping of these ridiculously amazing paddles.  No, not looking for a replacement.  I got my money's worth.

Thanks Bill,

Tim

 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on May 13, 2012, 10:36:54 AM
SL... Spies talk like this... "I know that my legs, back, shoulder and feet were similarly compromised"  Are you really a lawyer?  Too funny. 

The coll thing is you can reuse the handle and blade  and it won't end up like this.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 13, 2012, 12:10:05 PM
Victor was so pleased with himself about that sweeper paddle. Trust me, that's not a reflection on Kialoa--whose paddles are super tough. If you leave a Ke Nalu paddle in the back of a earthmoving contractors truck for a couple of years, and surf and downwind on it as hard and often as Victor does, it will crumble like a Ritz cracker. That thing was so cooked by UV that it was white in places.

Yup, you can break these paddles. Our warranty is pretty liberal because so far (knock on wood) we haven't had to replace a complete paddle--just components, and not very many of those. For example, that's the second shaft that has broken. Another reason this hot glue thing has worked out so well.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PaddleCrazy on May 13, 2012, 03:16:16 PM
Yup, you can break these paddles. Our warranty is pretty liberal because so far (knock on wood) we haven't had to replace a complete paddle--just components, and not very many of those. For example, that's the second shaft that has broken. Another reason this hot glue thing has worked out so well.
Well, there's actually been a third.....

When a shaft suddenly slides out of the back of your vehicle at the precious moment that you begin to slam the hatchback door....

Well, I have found that taping the small crack in the shaft left by the accident, will only get you about another hour and a half of use out of the dang thing....before it snaps in two while trying to stick a turn.  I think Tim used the word, "fuc*!".....:o :D

Unfortunately, not having the same discretionary spending policies as some (ok, so I didn't want to have to go ask the wife ;) (http://www.baseball-fever.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif)), I found that I had to go another route, rather than simply purchasing a $200 "component".    

So, a great repair guy in SC took the paddle in and worked some magic.  Cut down another CF paddle shaft that he had, split it and "rolled it" to fit inside my broken shaft, epoxied it in one half, then epoxied the other side to connect the two, then carbon wrapped the area.....sanded, and buffed it to match.  All for $50.....

(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=6d91923e4a&view=att&th=13737d2086ff2784&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=ii_137377ea9aa4dd70&zw&atsh=1)

(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=6d91923e4a&view=att&th=13737d2086ff2784&attid=0.2&disp=emb&realattid=ii_137377f2a9a4f0cf&zw&atsh=1)

....and if the CF cloth that he used had matched the original pattern of the CF of the broken shaft, you'd be hard pressed to tell that it was ever broken and repaired.

Surfed it several times since, and don't really notice a weight, flex, or performance difference from its original, new condition.  I just hope it lasts...... (http://www.baseball-fever.com/images/smilies/crossfingers.gif) ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 13, 2012, 03:45:31 PM
H M,

I am pretty sure that Pono is the only spy on the forum.  I must confess, upon a re-read, it did look a bit  like an "after action report." But the four years I spent in Kosovo were devoted to helping them draft banking regulations.... Really...

You are right on about still having a paddle, sans shaft... And the fact that Ralphie delivered the X tuff to the office last week seems a little more than serendipitous.

Paddle hard!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 16, 2012, 08:37:29 AM
I"m looking for some great reps, and I figure anyone who is really smart and active in SUP has got to be on the Zone--at least lurking, so this is probably the best place to find them. We started off with a very limited number of dealers because our production was low, but we have that ramped up some now, so it's time to get rolling. I still intend to focus on dealers who have a real commitment to SUP, and I've become convinced that the way to find them is to find really good reps that have an established business and a complimentary line of products. I'm not averse to reps that are already selling paddles, our stuff stands on it's own merit. So far we have SoCal covered, Georgia, South Carolina, Northeast Florida, and the New England States. If you're already doing this biz and you'd like to add us to your line, PM me.

Some folks contacted me before we were ready to do this. If you did, don't assume I remember who you are. My memory is a sieve and my email inbox looks like my desk. I'm also looking for recommendations, if you know a great rep PM me and tell me how to get in touch.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tecpartner on May 16, 2012, 08:59:59 AM
Bill:

Who's the rep in South Carolina and Georgia?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 16, 2012, 09:09:01 AM
JD Motes has Northeast FL, Georgia, South Carolina.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on May 16, 2012, 05:42:00 PM
Anybody else getting a 'security certificate expired' when going to KeNalu website, or is it just me?  PB, sent you a PM about it...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 16, 2012, 09:05:36 PM
Yeah, Bob had it too.

What happened is I decided to encrypt all the data moving from customers to the site, even though we don't handle financial data, we use PayPal for that and they have strong security. But I thought it was good practice so I implemented HTTPS which uses a certificate and public key encryption of all the data moving from your computer to our site and back. It was all working fine. It's belt and suspenders, but what the heck.

Then the company that supplied my https management software did an upgrade and broke everything. So I have had to disable it. Anyone who had been to a secure part of the site before will get that message. Doesn't mean much, you can safely ignore it. I'm working to fix it because I LIKE belt and suspenders solutions, but its fine to use it as is until I have it working again. Very few companies bother with encrypting the data stream for anything but financial transactions, and we don't handle those ourselves.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 16, 2012, 09:18:34 PM
Built up a Wiki with an ergo handle on my broken shaft for my friend.  OMG!  It is so light that it feels like a strand of dry spaghetti.  I can't wait until my buddy tries it this weekend.  He has been using a QB Kanaha.

As the shaft is shorter and the blade is smaller, I knew that it would be lighter... but I cannot really fathom how light it actually is.

By the way, used my X tuff Molokai combo for a paddle around the harbor island yesterday... was with a client who was on Chazz... and I paddled my new Mach 1, (to handicap things).  Great call as I had to work at a nice steady pace to stay with him... very interesting feel to the X tuff, it did seem like I was getting a little energy bounce in the last two thirds of the stroke, I thought I noticed a slight turbo lag... not sure.  Gonna use in the surf this weekend and report back.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 17, 2012, 07:14:09 AM
Turbo lag is a good description, the blade is accelerated a little slower until the shaft stacks, which for some folks is a good thing--it gives the air time to clear off the blade. People with a good stroke don't see as much benefit, the Ke Nalu blade doesn't pull much air if you get blade vertical enough. It's interesting how stroke-dependent these blades are. We thought they were only going to be good for people with a disciplined stroke, but there are some compensations and variations that we didn't think about.

Yesterday I did a downwinder with Lee Murray who owns a SUP shop in Gig Harbor (and Gregg Leion, Karen Wrenn, and Dan Gavere) and he used a Molokai. He tried a Wiki at first, said he likes small blades. He's been using a smaller QB. I would have thought the Wiki would be right for him just based on what he's been using, but he wound up liking the Molokai best. When he first started paddling I watched his stroke and he was pulling the paddle back with his trunk--which is typical with smaller blades, but after a few minutes he started pushing the paddle down more with upper body rotation, and he was letting the paddle do the work, not pulling so hard. I thought "how did he figure that out, or did his body just get pulled into that form because it's what works best with the paddle".

In the general chatter after the downwinder I forgot to ask Lee what was going on, but he was fast as hell with Molokai and had a great run. (Note to self: Bark Dominators suck REALLY BAD for downwinders. Fast on the flats, but Jeesus I thought it was gonna kill me in the bumps)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on May 17, 2012, 07:53:22 AM
Quote
It's interesting how stroke-dependent these blades are

No kidding!

I paddled 10 km with the Molokai one day "in the zone" (I actually forgot I was paddling), then switched to the Maliko the next and had problems sucking air with every stroke, but only on my left side.  It turns out that I had the Maliko 1.5" longer than the Molokai and I just could not get comfortable with it.

Thank goodness (Bill) for the adjustable T handle -- I shortened it up and everything came together sweetly! Length does matter (and so does thickness - the narrow shaft is just wonderful!).

Lee
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: corlot on May 17, 2012, 08:08:00 AM
In the general chatter after the downwinder I forgot to ask Lee what was going on, but he was fast as hell with Molokai and had a great run. (Note to self: Bark Dominators suck REALLY BAD for downwinders. Fast on the flats, but Jeesus I thought it was gonna kill me in the bumps)

Bill, I feel the same way lol. 2 days to Maui, looking forward to trying the Ke Nalu.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 17, 2012, 05:59:53 PM
Turbo lag is a good description, the blade is accelerated a little slower until the shaft stacks, which for some folks is a good thing--it gives the air time to clear off the blade. People with a good stroke don't see as much benefit, the Ke Nalu blade doesn't pull much air if you get blade vertical enough.

Very interesting observation!  When surfing a low volume SUP, out of necessity, there are one or two strokes that are less than picture perfect (only one or two dammit!)... the X tuff might, therefore, be a better choice for motoring such a board.

Like I said, I will report back. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 18, 2012, 09:52:35 AM
I think you might find that to be so.  A tiny bit of lag, but when it hooks up it's solid. And it's better than the random movements and unpredictable slip that happens when there's air trapped on the blade face. When we were doing our video/data capture testing there was one blade whose manufacturer will go unnamed that captured a big glob of air on the tip. It would bleed off to one side or the other and you could see it go in the data. It was one of the clearest examples of data and video coinciding.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 18, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
One more random warranty observation. 

I am driving to Bev Hills again this morning (I freaking hate that drive... but like the sights when I get there...) when I get a text from the local Ke Nalu dealer Ralph Bill from Sup-Position,  "Dude, your warranty replacement shaft is here."  I text back (not while driving of course) and state (essentially) "What replacement shaft?"  Ralph, "For the one you broke last week."  Me, "I never even told you about it... I didn't ask for a replacement."  Ralph, "Well, that's how we roll, when do you want me to drop it by your office?"

Seriously.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on May 18, 2012, 12:46:37 PM
The grapevine... aka the Zone.  Must have felt like the Twilight Zone, a place where everything happens perfectly without any hitches. (doesn't sound like Maui)

In this day and age ... can you believe it?  You got to hand it to PBill and Sup-position Bill, they know how to run a business.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on May 18, 2012, 01:34:06 PM
"Powered by Psychics".
Title: Re: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kneecap on May 18, 2012, 01:45:00 PM
Very interesting observation!  When surfing a low volume SUP, out of necessity, there are one or two strokes that are less than picture perfect (only one or two dammit!)... the X tuff might, therefore, be a better choice for motoring such a board.

Like I said, I will report back.
[/quote]

Test pilot Tim- let me know how it works out. I'm getting a Ke Nalu for my birthday (whether or not my family know about it) and I figure you'll have the perfect surf paddle all dialed in by then.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SoCalSupper on May 18, 2012, 01:52:16 PM
i heard PBill hired Dionne Warwick and her network of friends to drive the coast and  pick up the hypersonic squeals of broken Ke Nalu shafts (however infrequent they are) and then telepathically transmit the information to Sup Position who then uses his palm implanted iphone to speed dial the customer!
Its obviously working quite well... :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on May 18, 2012, 01:57:23 PM
i heard PBill hired Dionne Warwick and her network of friends to drive the coast and  pick up the hypersonic squeals of broken Ke Nalu shafts (however infrequent they are) and then telepathically transmit the information to Sup Position who then uses his palm implanted iphone to speed dial the customer!
Its obviously working quite well... :D
Bad idea there.  Dionne Warwick couldn't even find the way to San Jose. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 18, 2012, 03:37:54 PM
PDX Reaching back into the archives of the Zone, the bowels of pop culture, swinging for the fences, and dropping it into McCovey Cove... (where some Ke Nalu psychic is waiting in the exact right spot, net in hand on a SUP to scoop it up).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: ZilkerPaddle on May 18, 2012, 06:25:36 PM
any chance a 3 piece paddle being made any time soon?
82" paddles seem to be hard to transport when flying.  :)
inflatable sup's are not perfect but southwest gives you 2 bags.
1 for clothes and 1 for your inflatable sup.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 18, 2012, 09:03:52 PM
Yup. Not sure of the timing though. We're probably still a couple of months out even though it's a pretty simple thing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JillRide45 on May 18, 2012, 09:23:46 PM
If Southwest gives you 2 bags use 1 for the SUP and one for the paddle.  Just wear all your clothes. I can put on 5 bikinis, 2 shorts, 3 tops and a jacket and still be smaller than the big guy next to me.  shoes can get a little weird but just go with 1 pair of tevas.

Enjoy the ride! Jill
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 18, 2012, 09:29:38 PM
Actually, a Ke Nalu paddle bag has enough room for lots of clothes, and all those boardies and T shirts are extra padding. No need for socks or skivvies--go commando.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on May 19, 2012, 06:38:12 AM
Actually, a Ke Nalu paddle bag has enough room for lots of clothes, and all those boardies and T shirts are extra padding. No need for socks or skivvies--go commando.

 Yep... Just returned from a sup/surf trip to Mex and the Ke Nalu paddle-bag held two paddles (and all kinds of other crap) with no problem. It also has a pretty good size pouch for holding nick-knacks, too... Funny, the looks you get from the airline agents when you approach the counter with what looks to be a 'musket rifle'  ;D...        Paddle on,    JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Muskoka SUP on May 19, 2012, 02:16:29 PM
Hooked up with Rogue Wave today and got to try a Maliko 100...
Thanks Bill. Now I need one.  8) it has to be the quietest paddle I've ever used. No noise at the catch. No noise period. Pulls great.
I'm going to wait (or try...) until I can get a 80 flex XTuff shaft with a Molokai elite blade...
Though I hear that Maliko 100 calling.... ;D

Thanks Rogue Wave... You too P.B.

David
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom English on May 20, 2012, 06:01:29 PM
I love the paddle so much I just ordered 6 for the Aloha shop in Leucadia.  Nice work Bill.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 20, 2012, 06:06:16 PM
Pono,  today I got out of the water after about a 3.5 hour session.  Noticed my paddle had some water in the shaft.  The blade and handle joints have a wrap of electrical tape around them.  While I know this is not a watertight seal, just wanted to make sure it is a normal thing that can occasionally happen?  Seems to have either evaporated or left after letting it stand for a few hours with the blade up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 20, 2012, 07:37:19 PM
Kaya...not a big deal. Just means you need a little more glue in the joints. You might have gotten one that was a little lean on the glue. When you install the blade and handle you need to make sure you give it a twist too. I adjust my paddles often, mostly for demos, but also for my own use. Today I shortened my Molokai for surf. I used it yesterday for a race. When I pushed it in I notice it felt like it needed some glue. Pulled it out and fired up the hot glue gun.

I've had a couple times when water has gotten in. Just pull it all apart, rinse with fresh water and dry thouroghly. Add some glue and reassemble.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 20, 2012, 08:54:54 PM
I just lost a really long post on my X Tuff small SUP surf impressions.  Fark!  Here is the short version.

I like it.  The slight lag allows your core and thighs to micro-adjust before you are fully engaged.  On a low volume SUP (87 ish liters) this is a really really good thing and keeps you upright.

Totally dig the texture on the handle.  Didn't even use wax on the handle.  if you know me at all, this is a very big deal.  Super positive engagement.  Not sticky.

Chest and arms a bit sore, shoulder not at all.  I think because when the power is being applied is a split second later, and at that point in my stroke my top hand is pushing against my lower hand.  Slightly different muscle groups involved due to the small lag (reading too much into the small lag?)

Love it. It is my new surf paddle.  Done.

Questions, ridicule, clarifications... you know where to find me.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Big Ed on May 20, 2012, 10:14:28 PM
Tim how long is your paddle?

Today I used my new 83" XTuff Maliko for the 1st time. My body loved it, but it was a challenging transition with so much flex compared to my Kialoa Methane. I felt like I was learning to walk. I have to say my back and troubled shoulder enjoyed the 2.5 hours of surfing. I guess I can order a stiffer shaft, but time will tell.

Aerobically I wonder if the shaft is efficient?

The Maliko blade is bar none the best I have used!! I own 4 paddles (QB & Kialoa). Setting up and customizing your paddle is actually fun and nice to double check your own work; You have options if you make a mistake. I will eventually trim my paddle to 82ish but me and my hot glue have time.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 20, 2012, 10:49:24 PM
I made the mistake of telling the factory not to put so much glue on the ferrules. They were putting so much on that it was making a mess, and people were getting the ferrules too hot when they melted the glue--you CAN damage the ferrule if you grossly overheat it, the PVC will bulge, and in extreme cases can crack the ferrule. One reason why we like folks using hairdryers, it's just less likely. And with less glue it melts faster.

Anyway, long story short, the factory got a little carried away, and the glue is a bit on the sparse side now. Most are fine, but every so often we see one that's too thin. You should give the blade a twist as you push it in, then pull it back out to be sure you have full coverage, then push it home with a slight twist. If you have full coverage and a little bead of excess glue, you're set. If not you probably want to add a little more to make sure the joint is waterproof. It will be adequatly strong even if you don't have full coverage. we got over 200# torgue with the ferrule half covered, but it can leak water.

Sorry to burden folks with this, it's fairly rare, and we're looking for it and adding glue when we see a potential problem, but a few might have slipped by. The best glue to add is the amber-colored "high strength" glue for hot glue guns. Any hardware store will have it. I just stick it in the airstream of the dryer and let it melt some, then dab it onto the ferrule. Pretty easy.

If you can't find that then any hot glue will work, you're really just looking to complete the seal.

Big Ed -- I know what you mean, the xTuf shaft takes some getting used to. You might like a 100 Flex better, but give it a few days. It took me that long to really see the benefit. I think the saving grace is that it stops flexing pretty quick. I never liked our 60 Flex because it just kept bending. The xTuf bends and then stiffens.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on May 21, 2012, 04:40:22 AM
Any idea yet as to comparison of strength between xtuf and the 100 flex?


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?jnx2ha
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 21, 2012, 05:58:41 AM
I've taken them both to 200# without breaking them. I still haven't taken shafts to failure, I've been focused on other stuff and haven't made a guard for my press. The thought of flying carbon shards makes me a bit nervous.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fishman on May 21, 2012, 06:46:32 AM
I just lost a really long post on my X Tuff small SUP surf impressions.  Fark!  Here is the short version.

I like it.  The slight lag allows your core and thighs to micro-adjust before you are fully engaged.  On a low volume SUP (87 ish liters) this is a really really good thing and keeps you upright.

Totally dig the texture on the handle.  Didn't even use wax on the handle.  if you know me at all, this is a very big deal.  Super positive engagement.  Not sticky.

Chest and arms a bit sore, shoulder not at all.  I think because when the power is being applied is a split second later, and at that point in my stroke my top hand is pushing against my lower hand.  Slightly different muscle groups involved due to the small lag (reading too much into the small lag?)

Love it. It is my new surf paddle.  Done.

Questions, ridicule, clarifications... you know where to find me.

Tim

Where you using the Xtuf with the Wiki blade?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 21, 2012, 07:01:40 AM
Fish,

Sorry for not clarifying, it was in my long post that I lost.

I am a Molokai guy.

I have a Maliko for distance, but for surfing I like the big bite of the Molokai.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: all~wet on May 21, 2012, 12:46:02 PM
Damn you all ;)
See how this works?  I'm been completely happy with my Molokai w/ 100 flex... couldn't do any better I've thought.
Or..... can you?
Guess I won't know now til I get my hands on an xTuff.
Bloody pushers, all of you!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on May 21, 2012, 07:28:27 PM
Bill there may be something to the natural cadence theory . When I got my wife a paddle I chose the Wiki sized blade figuring it would be better for a smaller person. I let her try my Maliko  she seemed to like it better in spite of the shaft being to long. I noticed she seems to like a bit slower cadence so for mothers day I got her a Maliko blade and she loves it.  I did find the change was made greatly easier by using the Ace digital heat gun. It easily gets the glue above the melting point and avoids the danger of burning up yet another of her favorite hair dryers.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on May 21, 2012, 08:05:09 PM
I took a Zoner down for his first run today.  Gave him my blade and I used his... the whole run.  It was like swinging a sledgehammer.  He was all smiles with my KeNalu.  I think I'd give up paddling if I didn't have a KeNalu. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: covesurfer on May 21, 2012, 08:47:04 PM
I don't think I could give up paddling but I sure would not want to have to paddle with anything other than my KeNalu. The swing weight is the best and you don't give up power - you'd almost think there would have to be a trade off but my experience is that it is all positive. The paddle just doesn't wobble (I have a Maliko) and the hot glue system is so ingenious in so many ways - you can dial your paddle length, change blade sizes, handles, even shafts. There is just nothing else out there that competes. Brilliant product. Period. ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on May 22, 2012, 06:52:48 PM
 Paddle surfed with a buddy today and he used the xTuf Wiki putting the Elite Maliko (100Flex) back in my hands since over a month ago. I was spoiled by the xTuf Wiki but gotta say that Maliko is so damn smooth and powerful its freaky. I gotta try the Maliko blade with the xTuf shaft next... Any idea when the xTuf-S (stiff) shafts will be available???     Paddle on,   JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on May 23, 2012, 04:40:48 AM
I have some problems with my left elbow, it looks like a combination of a golfer's an a tennis elbow.
It is the elbow I use to pull when trying to catch a wave.
I can still peddle but don't want it to get worse....

Would the Elite Maliko Paddle with an xTuf shaft be the paddle to get?
I am 180 lbs.
Or should I go for a smaller blade?
I am just surfing, no racing and like to take off one a wave in one or two strokes on my 8'0" and that's why I prefer not to go to small.

How about an importer in the EU ??
Norway is in Europe but not in the EU !!

The only way to make the paddles a bit more affordable is shipping them from the factory straight to Europe I suppose so please make it happen
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JimK on May 23, 2012, 04:47:36 AM
Can't help you in the EU importer catagory, but I can tell you a smaller blade and/or a softer shaft will help the elbow problem. And the Wiki (smaller blade)is a perfect surf paddle for any size paddler. I know since I'm a big guy using a Wiki in the surf and Maliko for everything else and I'm EXTATICLY happy with these paddles

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com (http://www.extremewindsurfing.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 23, 2012, 06:10:30 AM
It's kind of funny... I am afraid to try too many different Ke Nalu combinations as the paddle is my constant throught my board dialing process... Then I try the X tuff with my usual Molokai blade and am surprised at the subtle and helpful (to me) differences.

No Jim, I will not try the Wiki X tuff combo!  Not because it isn't (possibly) an amazing surf paddle set up... It is because I am simply afraid of yet another variable.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on May 23, 2012, 06:38:24 AM
I'm chime in, to help add to the confusion of potential buyers.  ;D

Xtuf with Maliko for 75% of the people, is perfect.

Xtuf with Wiki is for girls. Way too easy to overpower this paddle for a man. My wife uses this one. Sometimes, even she thinks it could use a little more power.

The other shafts should be retired.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on May 23, 2012, 07:41:03 AM
I'm chime in, to help add to the confusion of potential buyers.  ;D

Xtuf with Maliko for 75% of the people, is perfect.

Xtuf with Wiki is for girls. Way too easy to overpower this paddle for a man. My wife uses this one. Sometimes, even she thinks it could use a little more power.

The other shafts should be retired

This was what I was thinking about the Wiki, if my elbow wasn't bothering me I would also have considered the Molokai

As for the shaft, I still own a few paddles with stiff shafts and I don't like them so the Xtuf shaft is a clear choice for me.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 23, 2012, 07:56:56 AM
We're seeing a lot of folks order a paddle and an extra blade--especially the "factory seconds". I was showing one of the seconds to a dealer a few days ago and completely confused him--he kept thinking the seconds were the premium blade. They are prettier.  The clearcoat makes the edges look beautiful. We're getting very low on Wikis (I think there's two) but we have quite a few Molokai's left and lots of Malikos.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, our process of molding our blades has a high reject rate. Most paddle blades are sanded and clearcoated after molding. Our are not so any variation in the finish is a reject. We sand and clearcoat those and they're beautiful, but not "firsts". You can find them in the "Specials" section of the website.

I'm still working on the EU issue, Every time I get serious about it something happens to distract me. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupnSurf on May 23, 2012, 07:59:52 AM


The other shafts should be retired.




As an owner of a Wiki with Elite shaft....I gotta ask...why do you say the other shafts should be retired?
I also have the Maliko but use it for flatwater.  And if you're "overpowering" you just can't paddle fast enough, clearly!  :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on May 23, 2012, 08:14:42 AM


The other shafts should be retired.




As an owner of a Wiki with Elite shaft....I gotta ask...why do you say the other shafts should be retired?
I also have the Maliko but use it for flatwater.  And if you're "overpowering" you just can't paddle fast enough, clearly!  :)

Elite shaft feels dead.

Paddle fast, paddle slow, it still slips. If it slips, it's too small. If I want a blade that slips, I'd use some other crappy brand instead of the wonderful KeNalu that plants, like its in concrete.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on May 23, 2012, 08:18:12 AM
We're getting very low on Wikis (I think there's two) but we have quite a few Molokai's left and lots of Malikos.

Make that 1 left in stock!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 23, 2012, 08:43:12 AM
Ben Friberg is getting ready to see if he can paddle more than 200 miles down the Yukon river... With a wiki paddle: https://www.facebook.com/24yuksup (https://www.facebook.com/24yuksup)

It's a cadence thing, and the value of a wiki is in fitting the blade to natural cadence. If you're a slow cadence paddler you'll think a Wiki is wimpy, if you're high cadence you'll think it's a catch monster. It also depends on your stroke. If you have a downward stroke with a lot of core in it a wiki catches like a 100 sq. in. blade. If you pull straight back then it's as small as it really is.

I greatly prefer the 100 Flex for racing. But I like the xTuf for downwind and surfing. But people who like "instant" response will always like the 100 Flex over the xTuf. I confess though that I'm constantly switching what I use. Not as much as I was a few months ago when I went on a binge of adjustment, but I'm toying with the Molokai on an xTuf.

Lee Murry from Lee's SUP in Gig Harbor picked up a bunch of Ke Nalu's for his shop yesterday. He thought he was going to want a wiki and wound up with a Molokai!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: RainWaves on May 23, 2012, 08:59:11 AM
I took a Zoner down for his first run today.  Gave him my blade and I used his... the whole run.  It was like swinging a sledgehammer.  He was all smiles with my KeNalu.  I think I'd give up paddling if I didn't have a KeNalu. 

 I'll second that sentiment! I took my dog out for a short paddle yesterday after work, and just for kicks, took my "Club" paddle with me. What an overweight, stiff P.O.S! Might have to retire it it to scooping dog poo off the dock ;D.

 I have mainly been using my X-Tuff Maliko for most of my recent outings, and absolutely love it it. The snap-back it gives just encourages you to push harder than normal, to feel that added boost at the end. I've found you need to actually reign it in a bit, because you CAN get carried away doing just that.

 I went out Sunday for an hours paddle with my Elite Molokai with the Flex 90 shaft, and really got to enjoy it more than I have in the past. (Up to then, I've only had it out on windy days (going upwind), and could really feel it giving me a workout. It seemed like I was going slower than normal, and that it was grabbing too much. But in reality, my time was just fine).   
 Anyway, basically no wind to start with, and was moving along smartly. Ran into a building headwind after 15 minutes, and continued into it for another 15 to my turn-around point. Had some small whitecaps going against the ebbing current, and was able to get some micro glides going back. During this paddle, I didn't get the feeling that it was too much blade, and was really able to dig in hard and keep on step in those small wavelets :). Had me wondering what that blade would be like with the X-Tuff shaft. I'll have to get out the heat gun and try it!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on May 23, 2012, 11:11:37 AM
 What about the xTuf-S shafts? When can expect to be seeing them, Bill???   TIA,     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 23, 2012, 11:41:03 AM
Couple more weeks for the S shaft. I have this weird feeling that it's going to be really different. Intellectually I don't expect much, but the original xTuf shaft has been such a surprise, I'm expecting another revelation. We'll see.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupSideDown on May 24, 2012, 03:14:57 PM
Hi Zoners and fellow Pono Bill disciples,

Mostly been lurking on the zone, but had to post about my new Ke Nalu paddle. I have followed Bill's posts for a few years now and even bought a Starboard 12'2 based on positive reviews from him and others. I've succesfully raced it in the surfboard class with my 850 gm paddle with decent results, but 2 weeks ago I got my new BOP style board.

I decided I needed a new paddle too and ordered one through the Canadian Ke Nalu distributor. I received it super quick via Fed Ex (Thanks RogueWave) in time for long weekend. I've had three sessions here around Vancouver BC, of which two were races. For racing, I have to admit that most light weight paddles would have been a big improvement, but I'd "demoed" a few of the other brands and although impressed...I had to take a chance and buy a Ke Nalu, since I couldn't find one to try.

I ended up getting a Maliko with a flex 100 shaft. I would echo everything positive that's been said about the catch, comfort and self-correcting capabilities of the blade. Of course the swing weight improvement for me alone makes a huge difference too. I will also say that in the two races, I learned about the slight wobble effect from pulling too hard...had to learn to settle down a bit on that score.

Most of my paddling will be flatwater but I do get out to the waves now and then...I got a taste of the possibilities chasing down a tug wake the other day. With my old paddle it would have been hit and miss to catch a ride...with the Maliko, it was easy! At one of the races, I met someone with a Wiki, which I took for a spin and may have to get one "for the wife"...and maybe she'll let me borrow it from time to time!

Overall, I'm thrilled with the purchase!

Cheers, Tim Q.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 24, 2012, 05:59:45 PM
Hmmm. This isn't good. I'm pretty sure Tim is the guy that beat me in the round the rock race--with the 12'2" I recommended. Now he's going to flog me with my own paddle. If it is, then "decent" was first in the surfboard class and well ahead of a LOT of 14' race boards.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SupSideDown on May 24, 2012, 07:11:36 PM
Yup that's me, I'm due for a Gorge trip...let's plan a "one design" downwind run on the 12'2 & Mailiko combo!

The Ke Nalu Paddle is UNREAL!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 24, 2012, 08:05:10 PM
glad you like it. Sure, come anytime. I try to get in the water every day, though lately that hasn't been working.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on May 26, 2012, 04:37:45 AM
Hello PBill! If I cut off an inch from the shaft just to try if that suits me better and find that it doesn't, can I just put the "ring" back and be happy or will it affect the durability of the shaft?

Thanks

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 26, 2012, 06:41:57 AM
Should be fine as long as it's only an inch. Better to have the Extended handle so you can play and have lots of ferrule in the shaft, but I did exactly that with a prototype and it wasn't a problem.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on May 26, 2012, 07:58:13 AM
Should be fine as long as it's only an inch. Better to have the Extended handle so you can play and have lots of ferrule in the shaft, but I did exactly that with a prototype and it wasn't a problem.
Thanks. I'll think a bit more and maybe bring out the hacksaw... :)

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PaddleCrazy on May 26, 2012, 10:36:55 AM
Hey PB, couple questions about your extended handle(s).....

When gluing them in, how far up from the bottom of the handle shaft do you need to put the glue? 

Also, it says "6 inches of adjustment", but what is the handle shaft's overall length (tip to bottom of the "T")?

Don't have one....yet.....but been kicking some things around in the ol' noggin, and need a couple answers to keep things going.

Thanks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 26, 2012, 11:25:54 AM
The handle is eight inches long and needs two inches inserted into the shaft, so you can move it up or down six inches. It comes preglued, with not a lot of glue (the bottom inch or so), because when we put a lot on it makes a mess and makes the handle hard to adjust (takes more heat). You can reposition the handle pretty much as many times as you like without adding glue--there's a lot of surface area and it mostly needs to resist torque. Once you've tried to readjust this handle you'll see why we don't need much glue, you need to evenly heat the shaft for the full insertion distance for the handle to budge. That doesn't mean getting it blazing hot, the glue melts at 140-165 degrees F, but you need even heat and some time for the temperature at the glue boundary to raise.

Once you can turn the handle you can reposition.

As far as I can tell you NEVER need to add more glue unless you start seeing some leakage. Ive been tweaking my paddle since October 2011 and I've never added glue. But if you need to, pull the handle, get some amber-colored hot glue from the hardware store, heat it up the handle a little at the end, melt the glue in the airstream of the hairdryer or heat gun (or in a glue gun if you have one) and dab some on. Warm up the ferrule, warm the inside of the shaft, stick it together. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: firesurf on May 27, 2012, 02:03:23 PM
Picked up my new Ke Nalu ,  x-tuff shaft with Elite Maliko blade. Got it at  Blue Planet Surf in Honolulu.  Robert cut and assembled the paddle for me just to order and has set me up with a great sub rental for my entire stay in Oahu.  Thanks to Robert and his staff. 
The paddle is awesome!...    The shark skin like roughness on the shaft works great and I really like the flex.   Having a blast on the south shore!     
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on May 27, 2012, 09:49:53 PM
I did the morning with the X tuff and Molokai, then the afternoon with the 100 Flex and Molokai... to really compare the two... and because I gave my X tuff shaft to my friend for whom I was building a paddle.  Damn... it WAS as I thought... gonna have to order another X tuff... the slight pause, or flex or turbo lag (again very slight) makes things easier on the shoulders for my surf paddle.

My buddy was pretty stoked about the Ke Nalu Wiki... he couldn't believe how light it was... but the 100 flex was too stiff for him... so when we got home from dawn patrol, we switched out shafts... (used my bike repair stand... worked really well)...

By the way, South Orange County nearly was flat, Oceanside had a little bit of swell but was blown, but yesterday's heavy Spring blow pumped super fun 2-3.5 foot peaks into my NW swell secret spot (its got a nice kelp bed offshore) ... and it was glassy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerLEO on May 28, 2012, 09:42:27 PM
Got my first elite maliko 2 months ago and was very stoked, but then broke my blade surfing 1 month ago very sad I got pounded low tide but I loved it so much picked up another maliko xtuf 2 Weeks ago for strictly surfing gonna repair my elite and that's gonna be cruiser/racer. Thanks bill for the for these  paddles. The two Weeks I had to use my old paddle was not so fun to used to the lightness and catch of the ke nalu. I'll see if I can post a pix of the the damage then the repair when done
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 28, 2012, 10:47:33 PM
We're working on something to make it easier to fix a Ke Nalu if you do non-warranty damage. I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerLEO on May 28, 2012, 11:01:46 PM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/48fd05bc-65f4-17d1.jpg)
Here's the damage gonna post the repair when done and see how much heavier it comes

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 29, 2012, 06:29:18 AM
That's warranty damage. Repair it if you like to keep as a spare, but pm me your address and the blade size and I'll get a replacement off to you.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on May 29, 2012, 12:16:26 PM
That's warranty damage. Repair it if you like to keep as a spare, but pm me your address and the blade size and I'll get a replacement off to you.
Awesome Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on May 29, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
That's warranty damage. Repair it if you like to keep as a spare, but pm me your address and the blade size and I'll get a replacement off to you.

Thumbs up!!!!

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on May 30, 2012, 08:45:34 PM
I tried the Molokai Elite blade with an x-tuf shaft today. Not a good combination for me, at least in today's conditions.  I rely a lot on my paddle for balance. Today was thigh to waist, bumpy and sloppy, real short period wind swell. The delayed response of the shaft was throwing me off.

The first paddle out through the whitewater was tough, very different from what I'm used to. I caught 2 waves and decided to switch...this was a day to have fun not experiment. I did feel the spring/snap at the end of a stroke and liked that but the softness of the catch is going to take getting used to it. I'll try it again when conditions are cleaner and I'm not balance checking so often.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 30, 2012, 09:46:04 PM
There's really no reason for you to like that, you have good shoulders and bad balance. Stick with the 100 Flex. You need that instant response for balance checks. That's the reason I still prefer the 100F for most things. For downwinding--magic. most other stuff, I'm good with stiff.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JimK on May 31, 2012, 05:44:40 AM
Just reading this thread helps me understand paddles better

KEEP IT GOING GUYS!

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com (http://www.extremewindsurfing.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on May 31, 2012, 08:16:59 AM
As Tim said before, the xTuf "stacking" changes your timing. It flexes a bit and then stops, so there's a momentary delay. Once you're used to it you might like it, but you DO have to get used to it. Even on a downwinder.

The primary difference is feel is smoothness. As someone else previously said, it's like butter. That's the initial flex. It's doesn't continue to flex much once the shaft stacks, but it does store energy. If you pull hard with an xTuf you get a real rush at the end of the stroke.

Yesterday I did an upwind/downwind conditioning run on my Bark, paddled against a 15-20 mph headwind and against the swells and chop up to a place I call split rock. Probably 4 miles. I decided to use an xTuf because I thought it would feel better on my shoulders. For the first mile I thought "this was a mistake". All the balance checks and hard pulls I was doing felt weak. After a mile I pretty much forgot about the paddle and it was fine. The downwind leg was pretty good, the Bark actually behaved itself. It doesn't mind little swells, but it's not very fun in the big stuff.

I got to the end and my shoulders felt warm and good.

Then I went into my shop and lost my balance on a step stool and had to catch myself one-handed on a tool chest. POW. instant shoulder pain. There's things a good paddle won't fix.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 01, 2012, 01:00:13 AM
My KeNalu Maliko Elite blade/Xtuf shaft is on its way from Norway to the Netherlands!
The Norwegian importer was very helpful.

Now I just hope Dutch customs won't delay delivery and charge me to much.

And I hope I made the right choice of blade and shaft, I just can't afford ordering another paddle...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 01, 2012, 02:02:14 AM
Tim how long is your paddle?

85.5 inches for surf.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SoundGirl on June 01, 2012, 07:43:14 PM
Bill, thanks for all the great info! I have been stalking Ke Nalu paddles for months now. Made the decision to get a one over the winter but finally pulled the trigger tonight. Can't wait! Hope to have it out on LI Sound and the Hudson River by the end of the month. : )
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 01, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
Ralphie Bill (a Ke Nalu So Cal distributor) must be trolling the Zone.  Random text yesterday... "You want another X tuff?"  I text back, "Yes please." 

Today, I am involved in a really long and intense media relations conference call... Ralphie slips into the office like a ninja... I see him through my wall o' glass... he sees that I am into things hot and heavy... leaves the shaft and slips out unharmed... invoice left on the reception desk...

He might have even helped himself to some ice water in the break room as he is getting pretty familiar with my office now.  The office is pretty discreet, unmarked, a buzzer, an intercom, you know the deal... but when the staff sees Ralphie with "another one of those sticks" they let him right in...

Dude has game!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on June 02, 2012, 11:17:31 AM
...
Dude has game

Tim
"God Damn the pusher man" Steppenwolf

At least it is name brand crack
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: supchino on June 02, 2012, 12:05:08 PM
Just picked up a Maliko and can't wait to use it!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on June 02, 2012, 01:40:47 PM
Just want to give a shout out to the guys at Surfari in Manchester, MA.  They have a 'real-deal' SUP shop folks, so if you are in the need for anything SUP... check 'em out!

Anyway, wanted to check the diff between the Wiki & Maliko, and they had both to demo.  Was cold,
rainy, and a bit blustery in the small harbor, but still better than working  :)

Tried the Wiki first.... couldn't believe that it had more catch than my Werner Carve!  Very smooth, and LOVED the sharkskin-type shaft (100 flex).  Wanted to see if the Maliko was better, so paddled back to the shaft (they are RIGHT on the water).

Maliko had a big catch, and I was leaning towards it, but by 2/3 of the way around the harbor, I felt a ping in my shoulder.  Thought that either I hurt the shoulder, or the Maliko was a bit to big for my surf exploits.  Figured that if I tried the Wiki again & the shoulder still hurt, I wouldn't know which to get.

3rd trip around the harbor w/ the Wiki... smooth, slightly smaller (but still plenty adequate) catch for me, and.... NO shoulder pain!

Just goes to show that you really should demo SUP equipment!

Went back to the shop, and put in my order for a Wiki!  xTuf shaft (based on comments here, think this is best for me), and xTuf blade (I tend to batter my blade  :(, and it IS cheaper!)

Can't wait for delivery!
Thanks again, Surfari!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bing on June 03, 2012, 09:37:39 PM
Hey Bill - just did a 7 mile test run with a buddy to compare a Maliko Ke Nalu and another name brand paddle.  We were surprised to feel the difference.  The Ke Nalu grabs right from the start.  The other paddle just didn't have that solid feel.  We also did a speed test.  My friend is much faster than I am.  We were neck and neck for a short race.  Switching paddles, I couldn't come close.  Great design - highly recommend your paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: lee on June 04, 2012, 09:58:31 AM
Bing LEEsSUP is now a Kenalu dealer in the Puget sound region
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on June 04, 2012, 10:22:01 AM
Just want to give a shout out to the guys at Surfari in Manchester, MA.  They have a 'real-deal' SUP shop folks, so if you are in the need for anything SUP... check 'em out!
Nice shop and great folks. Glad you hooked up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: sharkdipsea on June 04, 2012, 01:32:39 PM
For those of you who were using the Quickblade Kanaha (smallest blade) for surfing- have you cut your KeNalu to the exact same length or have you found the sweet spot to be a bit longer or a bit shorter.  I have my new Wiki blade and xtuf shaft ready to cut but thought I would post the question here.  Bill has already advised to start an inch or so longer and offered the feedback that others have found they prefer their KeNalus a bit shorter then their previous paddles.  Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 06, 2012, 10:46:43 AM
I'm really interesting in knowing what length people have found best for the Ke Nalu paddle vs. other paddles in their quiver. I'd like to know that for both race, cruising and surfing paddles. I'll put the information into a table and see if anything useful as a guideline comes out of it. I know a lot of you have done quite a bit of experimenting.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rogue Wave on June 06, 2012, 11:40:39 AM
With the Maliko, I'm going with 84", or 2" shorter than my Quickblade medium Kanaha design, which was kind of surprising to me because I almost thought the QB was not long enough.

The boards I'm using are medium to thick (Jimmy Lewis Blade II, Sabre, Mission, M-14)

I haven't fine tuned the Molokai or Wiki's length too much yet because I pretty much settled on the Maliko as my favorite size blade.

6'2" tall, 200 lbs (and shrinking).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Chilly on June 06, 2012, 12:02:45 PM
I just got my Ke Nalu paddle last week. I cut it four inches longer than my old paddle thinking I would start from there and shorten it after testing it. The catch was okay, but the recovery felt like I had to lift too high.  I took an inch off and it seems perfect.  The Ke Nalu is so quiet entering the water compared to my old paddle. I also shaved off almost 2 minutes from my regular 4.5 mile training run.. Just want to add my old paddle was carbon fiber shaft and fiberglass blade and was cut to a length were the palm rest over the handle. Now my fingers rest over the handle of my Ke Nalu paddle.  So I would say 3 inches longer than my old race paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: enden on June 06, 2012, 12:04:31 PM
My Maliko is 2" shorter than my QB and it's working great.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on June 06, 2012, 12:07:17 PM
Both Wiki elit and Maliko elit 2" longer than my QB Kanaha full carbon. Maybe, just maybe I'll cut one inch off my Maliko.

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: gorgebob on June 06, 2012, 12:12:16 PM
Started my Maliko 2" longer than my Shakapu. I chopped of an inch then another so now they are the same length. I change out the Ergo T with the Kialoa handle, but you need to epoxy it on. Not enough surface area for the hot glue gun to work.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 06, 2012, 12:13:39 PM
I think we should put height, reach at palm (comfortably extended, measured from middle of palm, and board type (recessed deck, standard deck, etc.)... along with paddle length

What do you think the data points should be Bill?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on June 06, 2012, 12:31:25 PM
I went 2" longer than my old paddle. I based this on early comments made in this thread.

It worked for me and the wife.

The blade just makes you want to stroke like a pro and that required more length than my old ditch digger stroke.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 06, 2012, 06:41:21 PM
I guess I need to do something more formal, as Tim said, but what I suspected is what I'm seeing so far, and it's a very strange thing. For the most part people cut their Ke Nalu differently from other paddles. They cut them longer and shorter, but with rare exception they don't like them the same length as what they previously used.

It shouldn't be so odd to me since I did the same thing myself. I use my Ke Nalus longer and shorter than normal, but I don't like the way they feel at my previously standard length of 84". I've played with these paddle length far more than any other paddle I had, including adjustables. What I've determined for myself is that even for distance paddling on a race board, there's a short sweet spot and a long sweet spot for Ke Nalu paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom English on June 06, 2012, 07:19:01 PM
I love my Wiki with the 100 flex paddle and am using the extended ergo T grip. Total length end to end is 87"
I'm 6'2" 185lbs.
The Wiki blade is easy on my shoulders but gives me plenty of power.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: novaboy on June 07, 2012, 08:01:43 AM
I got my Ke Nalu X-Tuf yesterday from Lee at Rogue Wave in Canada. Put it together this morning (hot glue is the cats ass BTW). I can't believe how light it is, and the blade is a work of art. I soon as I get a break from work I'm hitting the water with it. Can't wait. Post back after my first paddle.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: p06781 on June 07, 2012, 04:02:05 PM
So building a factory 2nd the extended ergo T handle is $50 extra verses only $20 more in the components part of the Web site?  Am I doing something wrong ?

Jim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 07, 2012, 04:56:34 PM
Not really, the extended ergo T is a $65 part and a $50 option. The standard handle is included in a paddle price but when you swap out the extended handle for it it's a $50 option. We list a price for standard handles just for completeness sake. No one actually buys them, though we're fine with selling them.

As always there's some pricing funniness. it's not all completely logical, some of the pricing is driven by goofy internal stuff. We just do the best we can to make it seem rational.

This is probably as good a time as any to announce a program I've been working on. I call it "the Forever Paddle" though of course nothing lasts forever. In fact this program is an experiment that might fail miserably, so I should call it "Forever or until this proves to be too much of a PIA to do Paddle" though the acronym for that (FOUTPTBTMOAPIATDP) is a little unhandy.

Here's the deal. If you break a part on a Ke Nalu paddle, you send a picture of the broken part and we send you an electronic coupon that lets you buy the component for half price. Yes, we know people could abuse that. But most people won't and they are the folks we care about. So you could own your Ke Nalu paddle like Abe Lincoln's axe--it's had five new handles and three new heads but it's still Abe's axe.

Of course if the damage is from normal use within the warranty period it's a warranty claim and we cover that for free. But outside the warrantly period, or if you slam it in a door or step on the blade it's just half the price of the component to fix it.

The mechanics of the program still need work. Step one is to get the shipping for smaller stuff to be rational--right now we charge a flat rate of $35 simply because our shipping estimator program sucks toads. But we're working on that and should have a solution shortly.

We'll have the details up under the warranty tab on the site soon. Just thought you folks should be the first to know.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Chilly on June 07, 2012, 06:07:07 PM
I think it’s a great idea, as long as its damage and not cosmetic to claim the coupon.
Your “Forever Paddle” warranty program will add to your “Forever Customers”.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerLEO on June 07, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
Just got my replacement Molokai elite in today thanks bill. Gonna get the hair drier after practice and put it together. I'm liking the forever paddle deal

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on June 07, 2012, 07:36:23 PM
sounds like a solid plan....I like it....now I just gotta pull the trigger....still dragging my feet waiting to hear on the xtuf shaft in the stiff version......?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tecpartner on June 07, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Bill:

Does the innovation never stop?  (Now about that bent shaft....)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 07, 2012, 09:14:51 PM
I got a few email messages from folks that clearly don't understand the concept. NO, that doesn't mean we can sell our paddles for half their current cost. We're going to lose money every time someone wants to take advantage of the program, just as we do with a warranty. But, just as with our warranty, the theory is that not many people will need to take advantage of it, and it will add more value to our paddles than it costs.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 08, 2012, 12:14:36 AM
My KeNalu Maliko Elite blade/Xtuf shaft is on its way from Norway to the Netherlands!
The Norwegian importer was very helpful.
Now I just hope Dutch customs won't delay delivery and charge me to much.
And I hope I made the right choice of blade and shaft, I just can't afford ordering another paddle...

It took exactly a week for my paddle to travel from Norway to Amsterdam and for the last 3 days:
   Package is in customs clearance

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 930chas on June 08, 2012, 04:53:47 AM
Received my Maliko paddle a few weeks back and have been thoroughly enjoying it. Trimmed it about an 1-1/2 taller then my QB Elite paddle and so far that has worked well. What I have most enjoyed about this paddle besides its aesthetic beauty and improvement to my pace, is the seemingly much improved recovery. My shoulders don't hurt during a paddle, and instead of feeling wiped out that evening or the next day, I feel fresh and ready to go again. Kudos to an amazing product.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 08, 2012, 05:51:59 AM
My KeNalu Maliko Elite blade/Xtuf shaft is on its way from Norway to the Netherlands!
The Norwegian importer was very helpful.
Now I just hope Dutch customs won't delay delivery and charge me to much.
And I hope I made the right choice of blade and shaft, I just can't afford ordering another paddle...

It took exactly a week for my paddle to travel from Norway to Amsterdam and for the last 3 days:
   Package is in customs clearance


Bummer. I feel for you. We have 300 paddle bags that have been sitting in LA for the last week, they got randomly selected for closer inspection. Third time that's happened to us. I generally means a week or more delay and the packages show up taped back together with a couple miles of customs tape. If it's increased security, then I'm fine with waiting. Still it's a bit of a drag.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 08, 2012, 07:33:42 AM
I'm building out a table of paddle lengths. What I'd like to know is:

Kind of paddling you do with your Ke Nalu: ______
Thickness of your board: _______
Your extended arm height--from the floor to the wrinkle of your wrist: _____
Length of your previous paddle for this kind of paddling: __________
Brand________________ and Model __________ of your previous paddle
Length and type of Ke Nalu: ______________

If you use a different length Ke Nalu for another kind of paddling then I'd love to have the same data.

Just cut and paste the above table into your response and fill in the numbers. You can post them here, or if you're shy just PM them to me.

I'll put all the responses into a hat and draw for a Ke Nalu paddlebag and the first Adjustable paddle kit (adjustment collar and extended handle) that lands in the US--it's a retrofit for any Ke Nalu paddle. I'm going to use the data to refine the recommendations we give people for cutting or adjusting their paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 08, 2012, 05:34:15 PM
Got the new xTuf-S shafts today. So far so good--they seem a little stiffer than I expected. The load cell on my press decided to go haywire, so I'm going to use weights to measure the flex. It's a better way anyway.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on June 08, 2012, 05:37:48 PM
Gimme, Gimme, I need, I need.....whats the verdict on the xtuf-s??  when will it be available to Jim K for me to order?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 08, 2012, 06:04:38 PM
Now?  They come in at 85 for stiffness.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: cape kook on June 08, 2012, 06:05:26 PM
your question and answer table is too much effort.

I was +10" on my Kailoa shak puu (86")

Got Kenalu Maliko at +8"
loved it.  lighter, better release, better shaft grip.
paddled it both on wave board and naish glide.  Felt a bit stubby on the glide.

just melted the extendo handle to +12" and had a few paddles.   Much more reach and power at that length.  Still nice release, though not as clean as when shorter.  No shoulder pain, but definitely feel the shoulders reaching higher.

I have yet to try the +12" on my glide 14, but my guess is that it will be even mo betta on that board.

Adjustability is fun.  But kenalu is so much more than the hot glue.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on June 08, 2012, 09:46:18 PM
Just pulled the trigger on a maliko. Ordered it about noon, had UPS tracking number, paddle on it's way by four. THAT is customer service above and beyond. Also had several emails and noob posts responded to with detail and effort. That stuff doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated. Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 08, 2012, 09:56:42 PM
Yeah, the table is a bit much but the info would be valuable, hence the bribe.

Here's some shots of a quick test of flex for the xTuf S. It's a little stiffer than I expected. This is 200# of weight suspended at the midpoint, with a 3" overhang on both ends. I need to do some better pics of this kind of test, it really shows off the beauty of the tapered shaft flex when it has a plain background. You can kind of see it here, but it's not as obvious as it should be. the curve steepens closer to the handle. below the lower hand the shaft is pretty straight.

(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/shaftest1.jpg)
This is a 100 flex Elite shaft. 2.25" of flex at 200 pounds


(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/shaftest2.jpg)
This is the xTuf S  2.75" of flex at 200#


(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/shaftest3.jpg)
And the standard xTuf, 4.75" of flex at 200 #

Kind of spooky seeing that much flex in a carbon shaft, but they held that weight and more--I bounced the weights to see what would happen--nothing, other than making me nervous.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Chilly on June 09, 2012, 04:10:06 AM
Cool pictures. The left side definitely has less flex.
Bouncing the weights! You got guts. Were you wearing a bomb suit?  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: supchino on June 09, 2012, 06:44:33 AM
I paddled my elite maliko with ergo t handle yesterday. Went for a two hour paddle with mostly flat conditions.  I am surprised how different the paddle works! It feels like the paddle helps to correct my stroke. If I felt it start to 'wiggle', I knew i needed to concentrate ln what i was doing.  The stroke with the paddle seemed so smooth, almost effortless.  No BS.. i usually am tired after an hour of same kind of paddling with my other paddle, and no tweaking of joints or wrist pain.  After reading about the ke nalu,  a lot of the claims are true. Definitely worth every penny
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 09, 2012, 06:58:20 AM
I paddled my elite maliko with ergo t handle yesterday. Went for a two hour paddle with mostly flat conditions.  I am surprised how different the paddle works! It feels like the paddle helps to correct my stroke. If I felt it start to 'wiggle', I knew i needed to concentrate ln what i was doing.  The stroke with the paddle seemed so smooth, almost effortless.  No BS.. i usually am tired after an hour of same kind of paddling with my other paddle, and no tweaking of joints or wrist pain.  After reading about the ke nalu,  a lot of the claims are true. Definitely worth every penny

It just tracks very straight. If you feel it wiggle you just need to relax your lower hand and let the paddle do the work. Some people are used to  paddles that wobble or don't track in a straight line so they steer the paddle. Relax.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on June 09, 2012, 08:55:50 AM
Bill,
Quick question on the xTuf shafts (I have one with a Maliko xTuf blade...love the combo).

Since the shaft is flexing in essentially the same direction with each stroke, does this cause weakness over time, or does carbon fiber not have memory effects? (Hope I am asking this the right way)

Thanks!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 09, 2012, 03:09:29 PM
Been thinking about a KeNalu for the last few days, waiting to try one out first though. My question is would it be better to get an elite second blade or an X-tuf blade? Elite shaft and handle, just trying to knock a little bit of the price off for myself. They come out within $10 of each other.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on June 09, 2012, 03:38:37 PM
Been thinking about a KeNalu for the last few days, waiting to try one out first though. My question is would it be better to get an elite second blade or an X-tuf blade? Elite shaft and handle, just trying to knock a little bit of the price off for myself. They come out within $10 of each other.

Hey Swordfish...just my opinion, but after looking at both and weighing the pros/cons, I went with the xTuf blade. It would appear that the materials make the thing nearly impossible to break, and the difference in weight would be difficult or impossible to tell apart without the use of a scale.

I did paddle the Elite (in 90 and 100 shaft) with all three elite blades. I then tried the xTuf, and knew within 10 minutes that for me it was the better paddle combo for my use in the surf.

So far I am thrilled with my xTuf paddle. The money saved was nice too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 09, 2012, 03:50:08 PM
Did you get an elite shaft or an xTuff shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 09, 2012, 03:52:55 PM
Been thinking about a KeNalu for the last few days, waiting to try one out first though. My question is would it be better to get an elite second blade or an X-tuf blade? Elite shaft and handle, just trying to knock a little bit of the price off for myself. They come out within $10 of each other.

Elite seconds are a really good blade. They almost make me rethink using clear coat on our blades. They actually look better and the clearcoat finishes the edge nicely. I'd go with the second just because they are so pretty. If you want a Maliko you can take your time but we have one wiki and five or sic molokais. No idea when we'll have more.

I'd also grab an xtuf s shaft. We only have 50 , well, 49 since I grabbed one. And I think when folks try them they'll be hot as a pistol. I'm in love all ovler again.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 09, 2012, 03:59:29 PM
Superstitious, only time will tell. If you bring the shaft close to its yield strength it will certainly get weaker because some strands will break, but that's probably 250 to300 pounds. There have only been a couple of  shafts that have broken so far, and they had clear flaws. Ultraviolet is probably the biggest bugaboo. Don't leave your paddle out in the sun and it will probably last many years.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on June 09, 2012, 04:23:24 PM
Did you get an elite shaft or an xTuff shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

xTuf blade and shaft. In all honesty, the xtuf shaft is what I like. Not sure I could tell the blades apart in a blind test (obviuosly they are visually different, but weight and how they perform in the water seemed the same to me) .
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on June 09, 2012, 04:37:01 PM
 If you can still get the Elite 'seconds', GET IT!... They're beautiful and there's something about that carbon weave that exudes excellence... But like SUPerstitious says, you can't really tell them apart once they are in your hands and in the water...      Paddle on,     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 09, 2012, 04:37:38 PM
Did you get an elite shaft or an xTuff shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

xTuf blade and shaft. In all honesty, the xtuf shaft is what I like. Not sure I could tell the blades apart in a blind test (obviuosly they are visually different, but weight and how they perform in the water seemed the same to me) .

Alright cool. I'm going to give one a shot, kinda hoping in a way that I don't love it because I don't want to spend the money at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: littleray on June 09, 2012, 10:12:09 PM
I am interested in a Ke Nalu paddle but do not have the chance to demo them. I use a Kialoa Methane and was wondering  what others were using before switching to their Ke Nalu paddle and maybe some reasons why. This info could help in my choice between the Wiki or Maliko size blade as well as all the shaft options.
I mainly paddle ocean flat water and wind chop/swell around Vancouver Canada and will use it in small to medium surf all to infrequently. I am 5'9" at 175lbs, fairly strong paddler i think and have lots of tob.(time on board,old windsurfing term)
Thanks for any input.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on June 10, 2012, 10:00:51 AM
I am interested in a Ke Nalu paddle but do not have the chance to demo them. I use a Kialoa Methane and was wondering  what others were using before switching to their Ke Nalu paddle and maybe some reasons why. This info could help in my choice between the Wiki or Maliko size blade as well as all the shaft options.
I mainly paddle ocean flat water and wind chop/swell around Vancouver Canada and will use it in small to medium surf all to infrequently. I am 5'9" at 175lbs, fairly strong paddler i think and have lots of tob.(time on board,old windsurfing term)
Thanks for any input.

XTuf with Maliko is what I tell everyone who private messages me. I also tell them the wiki is better left to women.  Maliko is right for most people.

Compared to kialoa, biggest difference is blade feel. Dihedral blades have a smoothness about them flat blades don't have. KeNalu blades have a slight hook tip. It bites better at the catch and forces you to use correct technique at exit. It's a rewarding stroke.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 11, 2012, 09:31:34 AM
I used the new xTuf S in the grueling Rogue River race this weekend. Awesome shaft. The stacking of the shaft (initial flex that gets progressively stiffer) is more pronounced than the xTuf. Literally, it flexes an inch and then stops. Bam. After the race every part of me was screaming--legs cramping, abs cramping, arms dead. Pain everywhere EXCEPT my shoulders and joints. Frickin' miracle.

It FEELS like it's in between a 90 and 100Flex Elite, but it's not. It's more like 85. But it's so progressive and the stacking effect rises so quickly that it feels like it just locks. I was showing how it moves the first inch easily, but the second inch requires my full body weight to some knowledgeable folks in the parking lot before the race and they got bugeyed. "How is it doing that" they said. "Secret Sauce" says I. Though this secret sauce is not ketchup, relish and mayo.

I can see where this is going. For any of our customers  that aren't flat out racers the Ke Nalu paddle just got 40 bucks cheaper. Only problem is I only have about 40 of them for the next two months. We'll ramp up production right away, but it's a new layup design so the production is going to be a little slow at first. We had a few come through with flaws.

I still prefer the 100Flex for normal racing, but the Rogue River race had several grinder sections where you had to make it through a fast current treadmill. For that kind of lunacy (Ted is an evil, evil man) the xTuf S was a godsend. And I think anyone that considered the xTuf to be a little too flexy in surf now has a better choice. Nice to have such a clear recipe:

Flat out race: 100 Flex Elite
Flat our with a little shoulder relief: 90 Flex Elite
Recreational Race/Surf with LOTS of shoulder relief: xTuf S
Downwind/surf for people who like a lot of flex: xTuf
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 11, 2012, 09:33:08 AM
Alright cool. I'm going to give one a shot, kinda hoping in a way that I don't love it because I don't want to spend the money at the moment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you pull that off I think you'll be the first.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on June 11, 2012, 09:50:29 AM
Bill.. I let a fairly novice guy try that blade you made up for Shirley right before you left.  He was short, 5'10" but not quite short enough for that shaft... so I let him use mine and I used the short blade.  He loved mine despite it extra length and amazingly I had a ton of fun on that short blade.  Bent forward at waist and really had neat bursts with high cadence.  Amazing how much more power is up front.  Got into almost everything I tried for.  Of course bending forward like that wears me out so when I cut, it will be an abbreviated cut so I only do a 45 bend, not almost a 90 like I did for that one.  If you remember that one for Shirley came out ultra light. 

Anyway thanks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 11, 2012, 11:00:30 AM
Weird, huh.

I almost used a super-short paddle I had set up for myself on the Rogue River race. Molokai blade, xTuf S shaft set for 78 inches. I chickened out and came back in to swap for a longer version of the same recipe. I thought it would be good in the wind but I figured it would toast my back. As it turned out it might have been very good.

These paddles really do seem to have two sweets spots, which probably has to do with the early catch. I think a high-offset blade needs a longer length so you can get the blade out far enough to make up for the light catch at the beginning. I think they get away with that length because the catch is soft enough not to beat up your joints and shoulder muscles. You can't get away with that with a Ke Nalu--it's going to catch WAY out there, but if you have good shoulders it gives you a long power band for your stroke  even if you start to recover the blade very early.

I think the short shaft works because the catch is so early and you can really put some beans into it. You have a shorter power band but the blade is almost completely vertical and the air bleeds off fast in that position, so you put 100 percent of your power into pulling the board to the blade right away. In shorter lengths the "feels like it's in concrete" effect is more pronounced, and the cadence comes up automatically.

I bet it felt like you weren't holding anything. In shorter lengths the wiki gets ridiculously light.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 11, 2012, 11:04:14 AM
I fixed the shipping price for components and accessories (like bags). It's now $15. I had to hand-edit every product and I might have missed one or two since Sam (the dog) was being a PIA while I was doing it. He saw a squirrel in the back yard and wanted to discuss strategy with me. If you try to order a component and the shipping comes up as anything but $15, drop me a message and I'll fix it pronto.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: sharkdipsea on June 11, 2012, 11:09:18 AM
Kind of paddling you do with your Ke Nalu: Surf
Thickness of your board: __3 7/8"_____
Your extended arm height--from the floor to the wrinkle of your wrist: ___77"__
Length of your previous paddle for this kind of paddling: ______75"____
Brand___Quickblade_____________ and Model Kanaha Timber small blade__________ of your previous paddle
Length and type of Ke Nalu: __75.5" Wiki Elite (2nd) with Tufx shaft____________

There are not many reviews from women for the KeNalu so I promised Bill I would post my impressions.  I opted for the Wiki/Tufx combo after reading many of the posts in this thread.  I like small blades for surfing and I have had some shoulder and elbow problems with too stiff of paddles thus the tufx.

Received paddle a week ago.  Easily assembled- hot glue worked perfectly with no need to add any glue.  Have had the opportunity to surf with the paddle 3 different sessions as well as a flat water paddle to experiment with catch and stroke.  It took a bit to adjust to the extreme lightness of the paddle but once accustomed to the feel of the paddle - I am really impressed.  I really like the flex in the shaft of the tufx- it creates some real power especially when digging for a wave.  A bit strange at first to feel the paddle flexing but it starts to feel good.  To save a bit of money I went for one of the Wiki seconds- looking at it you would never know it was not a second.  Paddle tracks great- even in windy demanding surf conditions and works beautifully once riding a wave for turning, speed adjustment etc.  I cut the paddle just a half inch longer then my Quickblade and so far it feels good.  Actually, I am not sure if I would notice much difference- especially in the surf.  I can see it shorter but leaving it for now.

I let a friend, another woman who has a bunch of paddling experience (outrigger and SUP) try the paddle on flat water and she gave it an A+ for paddle mechanics.

Over the 7 years of SUP surfing, I have owned a Kialoa, 2 Werners, an original Infinity Otter and most recently the Quickblade Kanaha.  The KeNalu is definitely an advancement on the best paddles available today.  Unbelievable, how much this sport advances each year in terms of equipment! 

Thanks Bill for your email support as I decided how to cut.  Great product and really excited that I can purchase separate components moving forward. 

Annette
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 11, 2012, 11:57:53 AM
Cutting:

The cutting is a little bit disconcertning for those of us who don't work with our hands much...

I went out and picked up a $4.99 mitre box from Lowes to make sure that my cut was clean... and kept rotating the paddle as I cut...

It worked well...

Girl Scout cookie boxes work well for handle adjustments too... duct tape one end shut... shove dryer and end of paddle into other end... turn on, monitor... adjust.  Takes about two or three minutes.

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 11, 2012, 03:56:20 PM
Alright cool. I'm going to give one a shot, kinda hoping in a way that I don't love it because I don't want to spend the money at the moment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you pull that off I think you'll be the first.


You see that's what I'm worried about. New paddle = money. A little tough when the new engine for my truck is halfway out of its donor vehicle.

Now im stuck between the xTuff s and the 100 elite. It sounds like I will like the elite better, but I'm not sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on June 11, 2012, 04:29:28 PM
I should have my Mailko 2nd and 100 shaft setup here on thursday. You can try mine maybe the beginning of the next week  (I'll be working anyway).  Any word on that 10'6?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 11, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
I should have my Mailko 2nd and 100 shaft setup here on thursday. You can try mine maybe the beginning of the next week  (I'll be working anyway).  Any word on that 10'6?

Our fiberglass guy is currently in a hospital in El paso after a blood clot went from his leg to his lung. He should be back tomorrow and I will let you know as soon I know.

Beginning of next week would be great on the test paddle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 11, 2012, 07:10:39 PM
xTuf S and a second blade. Unless you're a pure racer you'll love it. And save some bux.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 11, 2012, 08:28:44 PM
xTuf S and a second blade. Unless you're a pure racer you'll love it. And save some bux.

Sounds like a winning combo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: littleray on June 11, 2012, 09:32:09 PM
I am interested in a Ke Nalu paddle but do not have the chance to demo them. I use a Kialoa Methane and was wondering  what others were using before switching to their Ke Nalu paddle and maybe some reasons why. This info could help in my choice between the Wiki or Maliko size blade as well as all the shaft options.
I mainly paddle ocean flat water and wind chop/swell around Vancouver Canada and will use it in small to medium surf all to infrequently. I am 5'9" at 175lbs, fairly strong paddler i think and have lots of tob.(time on board,old windsurfing term)
Thanks for any input.

XTuf with Maliko is what I tell everyone who private messages me. I also tell them the wiki is better left to women.  Maliko is right for most people.

Compared to kialoa, biggest difference is blade feel. Dihedral blades have a smoothness about them flat blades don't have. KeNalu blades have a slight hook tip. It bites better at the catch and forces you to use correct technique at exit. It's a rewarding stroke.

Thanks for the info DW. Maliko with the XTuf it is then. Now if i can just get the order form to cooperate.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 12, 2012, 12:01:12 AM
My KeNalu Maliko Elite blade/Xtuf shaft is on its way from Norway to the Netherlands!
The Norwegian importer was very helpful.
Now I just hope Dutch customs won't delay delivery and charge me to much.
And I hope I made the right choice of blade and shaft, I just can't afford ordering another paddle...

It took exactly a week for my paddle to travel from Norway to Amsterdam and for the last 3 days:
   Package is in customs clearance


Bummer. I feel for you. We have 300 paddle bags that have been sitting in LA for the last week, they got randomly selected for closer inspection. Third time that's happened to us. I generally means a week or more delay and the packages show up taped back together with a couple miles of customs tape. If it's increased security, then I'm fine with waiting. Still it's a bit of a drag.

My paddle is still in custom clearance, for a week now..it's probably gone cost me another €100
What about an  EU distributer ??
Perhaps I can import a few paddles for myself and my buddies (and my wife and daughter) ?
So we  can test all options: 3 sizes blades including seconds and Xtuf, the different shafts and the extended handle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 12, 2012, 05:44:53 AM
Terribly sorry about that. I haven't been able to get the attention of any of the distributors I've sent email to. I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 14, 2012, 10:02:47 AM
Looks like we might finally have a distributor for the UK. I suspect that a European distributor should be someone in France or perhaps Spain--they have the fastest growth rates for SUP according to my research. Anyone know who the best EU distributor might be?

On another note, we are out of Wiki seconds. It will probably be six months before we see more. Molokais are dwindling fast. At the current rate we should have Maliko seconds for a few more weeks, though dealers are starting to grab them up along with xTuf S shafts. It's pretty attractive to be able to offer a paddle similar in weight and performance to a $375 paddle for $285 without any discount.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 14, 2012, 03:08:33 PM
Yes Bill that is such an attractive option that I couldn't stand it any longer and ordered me up a Maliko second with xTuf S shaft and ergo T handle. I'm counting the seconds until I get a shipping notice, and then i'll be counting the seconds until it arrives on my doorstep. I can't wait.
Where are these shipping from? The Gorge?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 14, 2012, 08:15:04 PM
Yup. You can see the swells from the warehouse. Nukin today, but it dropped just before a bunch of us went. Lots of fun though. I was using your paddle, but I'll clean it up before Carmen ships it.

Just kidding. If I did something like that Carmen would take my warehouse key away.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 14, 2012, 09:19:16 PM
Ha Ha! Good one! I'll let you rent it for $20/day then you can ship it in about two weeks and we'll call it even.  :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 14, 2012, 09:37:47 PM
You're going to love the xTuf S shaft. I really did use one today for a downwinder. It's so forgiving. 8.4 miles of hard paddling against a pretty good current and my shoulders feel warm and comfy. Better than a shot of cortisone.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stvandev on June 14, 2012, 10:46:49 PM
Looking at these paddles along with the new Werner Grand Prix.  Tried a friends Maliko for a few minutes, really clean catch but the shaft was short for me.  How many people are using the Molokai?  Don't see many reviews.  I'm 6'3" and 195 lbs, and currently using a GSI large blade paddle with a pretty flexy shaft.  Most of my paddling is racing is distance with some downwinding and surfing when conditions are good.  Anyone's take on the big blade would be appreciated.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SEA on June 14, 2012, 11:14:50 PM
I scored !!!  ordered the Wiki second and the Xtuf S shaft the other day. Must of been just before they sold out. My wife does not know that I got her the Wiki, I will put the XTUF shaft on hers and the XTUF S on my Maliko. I'm Loving this Paddle !!   

It is definitely the most forgiving and light paddle I have used. I did a 5 mile down wind run and paddled my heart out. I have had a sore shoulder and elbow so I have not paddled much at all and when I did I just cruise with my wife. I paddled HARD the whole 5 miles and was using my 12'6"  so I had to paddle to get the bumps . I finished the run and had NO PAIN in my shoulder or elbow, and I ended up waiting at the end for a  friend on his F-16 v2 ...  awesome.  The XTUF shaft might be a bit to much flex for racing but I have a hunch the XTUF S will be the ticket. I will be trying at the wet feet race from Sunset beach to Haleiwa this month. can't wait. I love how you can swap the components out so easily and also the extension handle. Between my 17 bullet and my 12'6" I can easily add or take away length.  Brilliant !!

Thanks again Bill

Aloha

Scotty

Thanks Bill.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 15, 2012, 07:25:36 AM
Terribly sorry about that. I haven't been able to get the attention of any of the distributors I've sent email to. I'll keep trying.

I would say get one in the Netherlands ;D

I received my paddle today,customs charged me another 60€,not to bad...
It came sort of unexpected, the tracking page still says it is in custom clearance...
 
It is unassembled, should I cut at the handle side?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 15, 2012, 07:40:30 AM
Yes, cut the handle end. There are videos explaining how to assemble here: http://www.kenalu.com/paddle-tips/assembling-your-new-ke-nalu-paddle/ (http://www.kenalu.com/paddle-tips/assembling-your-new-ke-nalu-paddle/)

One thing not covered (I have to re-do the videos) if that you don't want to get the ferrules too hot--an even heat of both shaft and ferrule is preferable. Hairdryers are actually better to use than a heat gun, though heat guns are a lot faster. Then when you put the ferrule into the shaft, give it a twisting in-and out motion to spread the glue, then push it home.

Sorry about the customs hassle. Wow, 60 Euros for customs? You'd think that because the parts are "unfinished good" it would be much less.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 15, 2012, 11:10:11 AM
Well, I managed to piss off everyone by talking about the xTuf(S) shaft here on the Zone before I briefed our dealers, our warehouse manager, and even Diane. The first two orders of xTuf(S) went out with standard xTufs in the box, because no one but you folks and me knew anything about them. We had people calling our dealers ordering xTuf(S) and the dealers said "what the heck are you talking about?"  Our warehouse manager, Carmen, hadn't even checked the shafts into inventory. I opened the box and pinched a few shafts. They're gonna take my key away, I just know it.

Sorry folks. I got a little carried away (they really do have a lot of cool secret sauce in them). Next time we'll make sure everyone hears about it at the same time.

We're also kind of running ahead of our labeling. We have all new product labels in the works, as well as stickies, dealer signage and some apparel. It's coming and it's gorgeous. But in the meantime, if you get a xTuf(S) shaft there should be a little blue label on it that says 70. If it says 60 it's a standard xTuf.

And the shafts show up as xTuf(S) shafts on the site now, so the S is a little more obvious on the packing slip.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 15, 2012, 02:55:17 PM
Just got my shipping notification email, yeah!!! I hope there's an "S" on my shipping label.
Now the waiting begins. It will be here on Tuesday.
Guess i'll have to beg, borrow or steal a hair dryer from somewhere.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 15, 2012, 03:34:49 PM
Now I'm worried I may never get to demo one since I don't think Jake has let go of his since he received it lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on June 15, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
Tim cutting for me became easy for me with a diamond impregmated hacksaw blade and length adjustments simple with an ace heat gun.
 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on June 15, 2012, 07:40:15 PM
Yes, cut the handle end.

Bill, question for you....is there a reason why the shaft shouldn't be cut at the blade end? I think I recall that the shaft is flexiest at the handle end. I would imagine that cutting it at the blade end would result in a flexier shaft, at least lower down the shaft than normal.

Would love to get your thought on this.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on June 15, 2012, 08:53:09 PM
HAHAHA you may be right. Tried it this morning and plan to again tomorrow morning :) Get ready to drop some cash, once you try it you'll be ordering. If I don't make it by the shop before I go back to work Sunday, I'll get you my contact info and figure out a way to get it to you for a demo.

Maybe you can talk the bosses at your shop into becoming a dealer? I thought I read on Pono's website that he was looking for gulf coast shops. I'm really hoping SUP picks up a lot more down here, good gear is hard to find locally.

I'm wondering about the difference between the xtuff and 100 that I got. Other than cost savings is there a noticeable difference?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on June 15, 2012, 09:03:35 PM
Regular xTuf has a soft feel, spring like. The 100 you know. The xTuf S flexes easily initially then goes stiff. Good for the shoulders, good for the blade to set and release air, still lots of power and response in the pull.....at least that what Bill tells me....I still haven't got one myself..... ;D.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 15, 2012, 09:32:13 PM
HAHAHA you may be right. Tried it this morning and plan to again tomorrow morning :) Get ready to drop some cash, once you try it you'll be ordering. If I don't make it by the shop before I go back to work Sunday, I'll get you my contact info and figure out a way to get it to you for a demo.

Maybe you can talk the bosses at your shop into becoming a dealer? I thought I read on Pono's website that he was looking for gulf coast shops. I'm really hoping SUP picks up a lot more down here, good gear is hard to find locally.

I'm wondering about the difference between the xtuff and 100 that I got. Other than cost savings is there a noticeable difference?

I am very much thinking about bringing that up. I saw the same thing on Pono's website today. If I can get it in Jamie's hands we may have a chance.

And if you want we could find a day that works for both of us and I can try the KeNalu and you can try my Raven.

EDIT: I just looked - the closest KeNalu dealers are Ft. Lauderdale and San Diego.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 15, 2012, 09:43:30 PM
Yes, cut the handle end.

Bill, question for you....is there a reason why the shaft shouldn't be cut at the blade end? I think I recall that the shaft is flexiest at the handle end. I would imagine that cutting it at the blade end would result in a flexier shaft, at least lower down the shaft than normal.

Would love to get your thought on this.

You can take two inches off the blade end, but there's an extra wrap on the blade end to reinforce the shaft. It's six inches long so cutting off 2 inches is OK, but not really a great idea.

The handle end isn't tapered for the first six inches, after that it gets slowly larger in diameter, but it's only 1/4" of taper over 55" of length, so it's pretty slow. You can take 12 inches off before you need to get one of our fat handles, and even then it's not really necessary, I've cut a shaft to outrigger canoe length and just used a little extra glue.

You won't feel a difference in flex, it would only show up if you traced the curve of the shaft under load. The shaft is straighter between the lower hand and the blade, and has most of the curve between lower hand and upper.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on June 15, 2012, 09:51:01 PM
there's an extra wrap on the blade end to reinforce the shaft

This part makes perfect sense. Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 15, 2012, 09:56:56 PM
My bro with the shoulder issues tried the x tuff wiki that I built up for him for his b day  He was totally blown away. We met up for just a few minutes today to go over some issues and had a million things to talk about... And I had about four minutes to devote to the discussion as I was on my way from somewhere to somewhere...

As I was leaving, he started raving about the Ke Nalu... He looked like the guy who figured out that you could use fire to cook things... I finally told him, "Dude, I have to get back to the office... I am running super late.  Fill me in tomorrow."

Another satisfied Ke Nalu customer!

Tim
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on June 15, 2012, 11:20:54 PM
"He looked like the guy who figured out that you could use fire to cook things"

Prometheus... and look what happened to him

Watch out Pono.  The paddle gods are checking you out.

Just one glass tonight.  Speed runs to the harbor resume tomorrow.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kauaidoc on June 16, 2012, 12:58:57 AM
Aloha to all.  This is my first post but I have read the entire thread.  Bill,  we met briefly a few years ago at a race in the Gorge.  I have followed Ke Nalu since then. I have relocated from Portland, OR to Kauai  with my family  and have been able to  get on the water on an almost daily basis.

I got my first Ke Nalu paddle recently and logged a lot of surf sessions with it before inadvertently donating it to the local SUP community by leaving it in the parking lot after coming in after dark from a long session.  Hopefully the new "owner" will submit a review too :-\.   I had no hesitation in ordering  a replacement paddle. I just can't go back to my old paddles

Anyway, on to the goods...

Kind of paddling you do with your Ke Nalu:  surfing.  Downwinding to begin soon
Thickness of your board: 4 and 1/8 ( custom polyester Laird 10'0 thruster)
Your extended arm height--from the floor to the wrinkle of your wrist: 83
Length of your previous paddle for this kind of paddling: 80 ( cut short due to shoulder pain issues)
Brand  Werner Carve ,  Kialoa Methane, demo'ed many others
Length and type of Ke Nalu:  Molokai elite plus fiberglass xtuf shaft at 83 inches

This is a fantastic piece of engineering.  Ridiculously light,  strong, and beautiful.  I immediately felt a major improvement in smooth application of power across the entire stroke. I am definitely catching waves I would have otherwise missed.  I and using a longer shaft allowing more hip rotation, more catch without shoulder overload.  Only slight quibble is subjectively possibly a little too much flex when surfing larger waves.  I have ordered the xtuf -s carbon for my new paddle. 

For anyone out there who is on the fence, this really is the best all round paddle out there at any price IMO. When you add in the hot glue adjustability and travel breakdown possibilities, there is just nothing even in the same ballpark.  No comparison. Not even close.

Bill, I have also been using your tail handle idea with a da kine kite board heel strap for a couple of years.  Amazing!!  It really makes a SUP session in larger surf safer and more enjoyable when you have an option for better board management when caught inside.  The SUP duck dive....

Many Many Mahalos for your hard work in bringing such a great piece of equipment to the SUP community with a grassroots effort.  See you on the water.  All pau

Aloha
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 16, 2012, 08:56:43 AM
You're going to love the xTuf (S).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on June 17, 2012, 05:27:39 PM
Does it matter which end of the shaft you cut before you glue it on to handle and blade?  I always cut the upper shaft (handle) but thought I'd double check as I'm helping my brother in-law with his.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 17, 2012, 05:37:03 PM
You can take two inches off the blade end, but I don't recommend it. The handle end of the shaft isn't tapered for the first six inches--specifically designed to be cut without changing the diameter.

In other words, cut the handle end.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on June 17, 2012, 06:03:06 PM
Great!  Thanks for the quick response.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on June 17, 2012, 06:58:33 PM
Is there a noticeable difference in the 90flex versus the 100flex?  I have been using the 90flex for the past couple of months.  I used it for surf and flatwater/racing but having picked up a wiki/xTuf, I use the 90 strictly for racing now.  I can't help but notice the flex, usually start of races and when I'm really digging or against the wind.  Just wondering if the 100 will be noticeably stiffer in this type of situation? 

Pono, you must now know what a crack dealer feels like.  We just keep coming back for more, especially when you put out new product.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 17, 2012, 07:03:20 PM
Pono, you must now know what a crack dealer feels like.  We just keep coming back for more, especially when you put out new product.

This is rather worrying to some of us.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 18, 2012, 12:58:00 AM
First thing to understand is that flex isn't exactly a bad thing. When you load up an efficient spring like a carbon shaft, you get most of that energy back. It comes a little later in the stroke, but you get it all. Not only is that easier on your joints because it spreads out the load and gives your muscles more time to stabilize, it's also good for the blade because it lets the air get off the face. Depending on the kind of stroke you do, it can increase efficiency a little.

But yes, the 100 flex is noticeably stiffer than the 90. The difference is mostly in the bottom half of the shaft. Both the 90 Flex and the 100 Flex bend between the lower and upper hands, but the 100 Flex bends less between the lower hand and the blade, which gets the blade moving a little sooner and holds the blade angle a little steeper. The upper shaft flex doesn't affect blade angle much. it just moves your lower hand back a little in relationship to your upper hand. That lower shaft stiffness translates into a feeling of immediate connection, and it's why I use it for racing, I don't think its faster, I can't measure a difference with a GPS, but it gives me confidence that I'm getting everything I can into the stroke. And 90 percent of this game is half mental.

Understand we're not talking big numbers here. it's about 1/2" different at 100 pounds. It's mostly feel, and joint cushion.

I don't recall what blade you have on your 90 Flex, but you might try swapping the Wiki blade onto the 90 shaft and try it for a few days. You might even want to try that xTuf Wiki in some flatwater. It might surprise you. It's a counter-intuitive combination, but as I posted earlier in the Gorge thread, I used Rod Parmenter's Wiki xTuf on a downwinder today, and I was really surprised at how fast it was. The xTuf mellowed out the Wiki's ultra-fast cadence and made it so smooth I was catching bumps effortlessly. I was holding a faster cadence than I normally do, but it wasn't tiring, in fact it was kind of... well effortless is the best word I can come up with.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on June 18, 2012, 04:14:55 AM
Thanks for the different perspective on flex, I wasn't looking at it as a good thing in racing... guess I was just focused on not feeling like I was getting everything out of the stroke.  Your view makes perfect sense though. 

I have a Maliko blade on the 90.  I have taken the Wiki/xTuf on a bunch of flatwater paddles and it's so smooth that it almost lulls you to sleep.  I think I'll give the Wiki blade a shot on the 90. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 18, 2012, 11:23:45 AM
Is the blade attatched to the shaft with hot glue or is it epoxied on? I thought that I read somewhere deep in this thread that it was epoxied which would cut down on the versatility of being able to swap out different shaft/blade combos.
I think that would be a much bigger selling point than only being able to change/adjust the handle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on June 18, 2012, 11:45:52 AM
Is the blade attatched to the shaft with hot glue or is it epoxied on? I thought that I read somewhere deep in this thread that it was epoxied which would cut down on the versatility of being able to swap out different shaft/blade combos.
I think that would be a much bigger selling point than only being able to change/adjust the handle.

Both ends hot glue.  The KeNalu is probably the most versatile paddle on the market, and more options keep becoming available.  Works for those who love to fine tune their paddle, for others, I'm sure it may cause a lot of buyer anxiety! Best way to select is to find a local dealer and demo.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Ucycle on June 18, 2012, 12:35:00 PM
I was able to demo the Kenalu paddle with 100 flex and Xtuf shaft. I like feel of the xtuf shaft more than 100 flex for surfing.  My normal paddle is Kialoa methane so paddle on the Kenalu, i was surprise how smooth the blade enter the water and how smooth the pull compare to my Methane.  People are right about KeNalu, they crack, once you tried it once, you want more.  Im just waiting until i can demo the Xtuf (S) shaft, it will be either the of those shaft with Maliko blade and extended ergo handle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 18, 2012, 04:50:05 PM
NEVER! The blades go on with hot glue. We doan need no Stinkin' epoxy (gratuitous spaghetti western reference)

All our components are designed to use hot glue. It's a bit of a trick to make hot glue work but YES, the blades go on with hot glue. The retrofit adjustable paddle collar goes on with hot glue.

The only exception is the three piece paddle converter which can be done either way--All hot glue or epoxied into the lower section and hot glue for the top. Both ways work, but people might find it more reassuring if the lower section is epoxied in so it won't slip down when you heat the ferrule to put the shaft together.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 18, 2012, 11:58:14 PM
Cool, that's what I like to hear!
So, what makes gluing the blade harder than gluing the handle?

My new paddle will be on a UPS truck tomorrow morning.  :)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 19, 2012, 09:28:49 AM
Nothing, it's easy. I'm not sure what you mean. I don't recommend CUTTING the blade end of the shaft, in part because the taper makes the hole smaller, but mostly because the blade end of the shaft is reinforced.

There's a bit of a trick to designing parts for hot glue. Is that what you mean?

Every Ke Nalu paddle you see has had it's blade hot-glued on by either the dealer or the owner. We ship them disassembled. You'll be hot-gluing your blade on tomorrow.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 19, 2012, 11:34:27 AM
It was this line in your previous post:

"All our components are designed to use hot glue. It's a bit of a trick to make hot glue work but YES, the blades go on with hot glue."

You made it sound as if it was "a bit of a trick" to glue the blades, but what I guess you meant was that it was a bit of a trick to design them to be able to be hot glued.

Anyway, the UPS man arrived while I was still in bed so I had a nice little present on my front porch when I went out to get the paper this morning.

Yes, I will be glueing today, I just found an old hair dryer in one of my junk drawers. Then I shall go give her a test drive. Too bad there's no surf today. I'll report back later after the maiden voyage.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 19, 2012, 11:48:40 AM
Sometimes I even confuse myself.

I was down at Nichols Boat Basin this morning testing a paddle design (didn't work) and this nice kid came up to see what I was doing. "Wow, Ke Nalu paddles, I hear they're good, can I try one"? So I let him try mine. He came back about 15 minutes later and said "This is amazing, do people know about these"? So I told him about this thread on the Zone. He said "Oh, yeah, I saw that. 800 replies or something--it's too long to read".

I'm still laughing. Kids are funny.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 19, 2012, 11:32:58 PM
Will my Maliko/Xtuf shaft become noticeably stiffer when I cut off another 4" from 6'6" -> 6'2"?

I was planning to shorten one of my paddles to my length +0 for my shortboard (6'8") anyway...

The Xtuf shaft is just a little bit to flexible for my taste, especially when really pulling it when catching a wave.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SEA on June 20, 2012, 12:02:20 AM
I received my XTUF S shaft today and put it on my Maliko. I adjusted it to about 84".  It is considerably stiffer than the XTUF , It is supposed to be 20mph with up to 30 gusts and has been blowing for a few days now. I am taking it out for a run tomorrow, Will let you know how it works out on a down wind run. I'm sure it will be a blast !!!

Thanks Bill :)

Aloha

Scotty
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 20, 2012, 01:04:57 AM
Will my Maliko/Xtuf shaft become noticeably stiffer when I cut off another 4" from 6'6" -> 6'2"?

I was planning to shorten one of my paddles to my length +0 for my shortboard (6'8") anyway...

The Xtuf shaft is just a little bit to flexible for my taste, especially when really pulling it when catching a wave.


I saw in the above post the length of a paddle measured in just inches instead of in inches and feet like it is done with boards.

So I want to shorten my paddle from 78"  to 74" , will it become noticeably stiffer?

Why don't you all just switch to metric,much easier ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on June 20, 2012, 02:13:31 AM


Why don't you all just switch to metric,much easier ;D
[/quote]

Yes!  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on June 20, 2012, 04:17:22 AM
Will my Maliko/Xtuf shaft become noticeably stiffer when I cut off another 4" from 6'6" -> 6'2"?

I was planning to shorten one of my paddles to my length +0 for my shortboard (6'8") anyway...

The Xtuf shaft is just a little bit to flexible for my taste, especially when really pulling it when catching a wave.


I saw in the above post the length of a paddle measured in just inches instead of in inches and feet like it is done with boards.

So I want to shorten my paddle from 78"  to 74" , will it become noticeably stiffer?

Why don't you all just switch to metric,much easier ;D
Those of us that think wish the same thing, but far to many people are to lazy to think or do the work of switching.  to someone who does not have to use measure to make a living, there is no incentive to make the switch, and incentive to fight switching.  In the 70's our congress decided we would switch, a lot of money was spent preparing for it, as the time got closer for the switch to happen, people started complaining and congress lost its resolve. 

You have no idea the problem it causes, remember the Mars probe that hit the surface at several hundred MPH because the contractor and NASA were using different units of measure and someone forgot to convert?  Remember the defects in the Hubble mirror?  Any idea how much extra we pay for many contracts because the contract specifies SAE specs and foreign contractors can not affordably retool from metric tooling and stock?

I did race engine development for a while and had to maintain two complete sets of measuring tools to avoid the possibility of conversion errors.  Even then, I vastly preferred working in metric over even decimal inches.  don't even get me started about fractional inches. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on June 20, 2012, 05:39:22 AM
...to someone who does not have to use measure to make a living, there is no incentive...

Sorry Celeste, but as they say, "beauty's in the eye of the beerholder".

I do use MEASURE to make a living...I'm a remodeling contractor and do lots of precise finish work.  I measure and cut down to the strong/weak 32nd of an inch.  Can't even imagine trying to mark/cut down to the millimeter.  I agree the km makes more sense than the mile though   :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 20, 2012, 07:10:55 AM
Will my Maliko/Xtuf shaft become noticeably stiffer when I cut off another 4" from 6'6" -> 6'2"?

I was planning to shorten one of my paddles to my length +0 for my shortboard (6'8") anyway...

The Xtuf shaft is just a little bit to flexible for my taste, especially when really pulling it when catching a wave.

It will be measurably stiffer, but not enough to feel much. But a shorter paddle and lower upper arm position will give you a bit more leverage for digging for waves anyway.

I really wish the push to metric had happened. It's a lot more useful standard, but more importantly, it leaves us out of step with the rest of the world. I do a bit of machining, and inches are the bane of that effort. Machining a tape in inches is such a pain. I almost always make a mistake somewhere and wind up with a junk part. By comparison, metric tapers I can do in my head and I never get them wrong.

I think Celsius killed the push. Too coarse. Metric threads are a bit funky too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on June 20, 2012, 10:13:26 AM
...to someone who does not have to use measure to make a living, there is no incentive...

Sorry Celeste, but as they say, "beauty's in the eye of the beerholder".

I do use MEASURE to make a living...I'm a remodeling contractor and do lots of precise finish work.  I measure and cut down to the strong/weak 32nd of an inch.  Can't even imagine trying to mark/cut down to the millimeter.  I agree the km makes more sense than the mile though   :D
Oh, I use fractional inches when those are the tools I have, I use decimal inches when those are the tools I have, and decimal meters when those are the tools I have.  When I have all 3 types of tools I use the native units from the plans in question.  But given the choice of units I prefer to use, decimal meteric is the clear winner, followed closely by decimal inches. 

Fractional inches suck worst for ratios or figuring shrink.  If I am making a casting mold for something out of a steel alloy that is rated for 7/16 per foot shrink, and I don't have a 7/16 shrink rule, making my own on a printer is a pretty nominal job in metric or decimal inches, it really bites to have to try to make your own in fractional inches.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 20, 2012, 03:42:29 PM
Well I got to try out my new Maliko with xTuff S shaft yesterday and here's my intitial feelings about it.

I took it out with my 11'4" Naish Nalu in fairly crummy conditions with a 5-10 knot headwind and small 2-3 foot crumbly surf.

Initially I wasn't immediately blown away by the paddle which is what I was expecting with all the rave reviews on this thread so that was a little dissapointing at first.

It was very smooth but not much more than my only other paddle which is a Werner Nitro.

I'm not a big fan of the sharkskin texture only because it makes it more difficult when changing paddling sides. It feels good in my bottom hand though so I may just leave a one foot section in the middle alone and sand the rest smooth for easier transitions. The smaller diameter of the shaft will take some getting used to as well.

I initially cut one inch off the shaft making it two inches longer than my Nitro, but I think it's too long so i'm just going to cut it down the other two inches.
I'm pretty much a surf only paddler although I have to paddle 1/4 to 1/2 mile to get to my surf spots so the paddle will be used mainly for surf.

Where the paddle really seemed to shine was paddling into waves. It seemed to have much better acceleration and I liked how the shaft seemed to spring me forward into the wave.

Though not blown away initially, it is a solid quality paddle. Once I get it tuned how I like it and get it out in some glassier conditions i'll be able to assess it a little better.

I'd also like to do a side by side comparison with my other paddle to really be able to notice the differences/benefits of this paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 20, 2012, 04:14:05 PM
Get the length right and it will feel better. Paddle with it for an hour, then switch. You're coming from a very good paddle to begin with though, the Werner Nitro is a particularly good design. Still I think you'll get your AHA moment when the length is right for you.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on June 20, 2012, 08:28:42 PM
After a bit of procrastination and indecision about shaft selection, I just ordered my Maliko / Xtuf / Ergo-T setup a couple days ago from Jim K.....should be at my door tomorrow or Friday it sounds like......can't wait to try it out and write a review....I'm coming from a Kialoa Shaka Puu which should be a pretty close "apples to apples" comparison....


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Title: Re: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AJR on June 20, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
After a bit of procrastination and indecision about shaft selection, I just ordered my Maliko / Xtuf / Ergo-T setup a couple days ago from Jim K.....should be at my door tomorrow or Friday it sounds like......can't wait to try it out and write a review....I'm coming from a Kialoa Shaka Puu which should be a pretty close "apples to apples" comparison....


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Tell us what you think after trying it out - that's what I'm using right now.  I'm leaning towards the xtuf-s.  You mainly surfing?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on June 21, 2012, 06:16:13 AM
Yes, mostly surf, but I also do a bit of flatwater distance paddling. If everything works out like I'm hoping, I'll be testing it on flatwater tomorrow then surf on Saturday. 


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 21, 2012, 08:16:18 AM
Will my Maliko/Xtuf shaft become noticeably stiffer when I cut off another 4" from 6'6" -> 6'2"?
I was planning to shorten one of my paddles to my length +0 for my shortboard (6'8") anyway...
The Xtuf shaft is just a little bit to flexible for my taste, especially when really pulling it when catching a wave.
It will be measurably stiffer, but not enough to feel much. But a shorter paddle and lower upper arm position will give you a bit more leverage for digging for waves anyway.
I took off another 10 cm, lost 15 gr and the paddle feels a lot stiffer, much better.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 21, 2012, 08:53:53 AM
Soepkip:
Glad to hear that worked for you. A lot depends on how much you already have off the paddle. The shaft is actually straight for about 6 inches (15 CM). After you've removed that the taper starts, so each inch you remove eliminates some of the taper flex.

Scott: Your reaction is really pretty typical. To most people the Ke Nalu paddles feel good right away, they notice the early catch and the stability, but after reading all the comments here they probably expect it to work like an outboard motor and just drive your board.

The big difference is noticeable when you try your other paddle just after using a Ke Nalu. It will feel very odd. It's not so much that the Ke Nalu is "better" than a Nitro--I don't think it is. It's because it different--it was designed to be different. When those difference really fit your stroke and style, it's a much better paddle FOR YOU.  If they don't, it's just a good paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 21, 2012, 09:13:11 AM
Scott,

My experience was very similar to yours.  First paddle... okay, it's light, the shaft is skinny, it's shiny, it's a nice paddle.  Then I went out on my step up SUP (8'3" by 27") with the blade of the Pono Paddle under one foot while using my other high end paddle... switched back and forth for pretty much an entire session... (with the paddle not in use out beyond the lineup floating) the next week I gave that other paddle to a friend...

What I like best about the paddle, if I had to narrow it down, would be that it forces me to make a better stroke.  I can feel it.  I don't have a great stroke.  I just paddle to have fun... but I can tell that my stroke has improved since I started using the Pono Paddle.

Good luck dialing it in.

SL
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 21, 2012, 09:14:46 AM
One more thing... Moloa was on the OC-1 during my downwind adventure... he is a Ke Nalu guy too... and was bummed that Ke Nalu isn't (yet) making outrigger paddles... he was saying that his outrigger paddle felt like a club compared to his Ke Nalu.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on June 21, 2012, 09:27:45 AM
Ditto to what Pono and Leper said.

I came from the Nitro. It felt a little better. I could feel my stroke technique getting a lot better. I switched back, and the Nitro felt a little clunky. After I switched from the Elite 90 shaft to the XTuf shaft, my opinion went from a little better to a lot better.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 21, 2012, 09:55:12 AM
Having a rough day at work and decided to cheer myself up a little. Ordered a Maliko second with the Xtuf(S) shaft. Can't wait.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on June 21, 2012, 09:55:28 AM
I've had a number of different paddles like many of you.  Love the blade of the nitro, it too is very smooth.  I think it's one of the best blades out there.  It's the ultra stiff shaft and larger diameter shaft that I did not care for.  The KeNalu has a smooth blade as well but the flex feels so much better to me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 21, 2012, 05:27:39 PM
One more thing... Moloa was on the OC-1 during my downwind adventure... he is a Ke Nalu guy too... and was bummed that Ke Nalu isn't (yet) making outrigger paddles... he was saying that his outrigger paddle felt like a club compared to his Ke Nalu.

I know this is taking forever, but the two-piece version (there will be two and three piece versions) of the travel paddle is convertible to a OC paddle. I set the length up so it will work with an extended Ergo-T  to give a OC paddle range of 49" to 55".  We MAY be able to make it work so you don't have to take the adapter out, but if that doesn't fly then it will be a bit of a PIA since you'd need to take off the blade, drop the adapter out put it back together and put you handle in, but it means you can take an existing Ke Nalu paddle, turn it into an adjustable, a three piece travel paddle, or a two piece and an OC paddle.

Pretty versatile.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on June 22, 2012, 12:28:41 AM
Thanks for all the replies and insights.

Well I cut her down to 80" and sanded the shaft fairly smooth on the top 40%, left the middle 10" or so unsanded and lightly sanded the bottom section.
I sanded it with some 1000 grit sandpaper as Bill suggests in his tuning video.
After calling around to various harware stores in the area, no one had any 1000 grit but one suggested an auto parts store and low and behold, they had 800 grit, 1000 grit and even 2000 thousand grit all for doing finish body/paint work.
The sandpaper was fairly expensive, $5.75 for four little 3"x 8" strips but oh well.
I was fairly skeptical about 1000 grit being able to smooth out the texture in the shaft but it worked quite well and fairly rapidly but not so rapidly that I had to worry about taking off too much too soon.

I'll take her out for another test session either tomorrow or Saturday and see how it goes.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on June 22, 2012, 01:42:53 AM
Soepkip:
Glad to hear that worked for you. A lot depends on how much you already have off the paddle. The shaft is actually straight for about 6 inches (15 CM). After you've removed that the taper starts, so each inch you remove eliminates some of the taper flex.
I removed 24 cm / 9,5 inch in total and the flexibility of my paddle is ok now.

I had a look at the picture of the Xtuf shaft on the KeNalu website:
(http://www.kenalu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/shafts3-302x302.jpg)
Which one is the Xtuf?
The middle one I suppose because that is the one I have ;D

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on June 22, 2012, 05:14:32 AM
 Correcto (it's the middle one)...         Paddle on,     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: supchino on June 22, 2012, 05:49:15 AM
Had another great session with my maliko elite. Looking to grab a xtuf soon. Great product overall and am glad to hear about a 2-3 piece paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on June 22, 2012, 09:44:54 AM
Not to pile on with gear requests but is an adjustable Ke Nalu ever going to be in the mix? That would be great for my kids. They are pretty tiny for their ages so the upgradability would be great, should they ever decide to grow.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 22, 2012, 09:59:48 AM
Actually I'm a little surprised they're not already here. We approved the final design about a month ago and went to production. It's going to be available as a complete paddle, a retrofit kit (with extended handle) and as a fitting only for people that already have an extended ergo T. There will also be a longer Extended handle available.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on June 23, 2012, 07:46:10 PM
I'm assuming you are talking about the adjustable as opposed to the upcoming two and three piece paddles........will your system fit other brands of carbon paddles? My reason for asking is that I have a cheaper off brand carbon paddle that I'm more willing to chop down for the kids than a Ke Nalu. Hope I'm not off-base and asking dumb questions.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 23, 2012, 08:20:40 PM
No such thing as a dumb question. Yeah, I'm talking about the adjustable bit. It's a stepped collar that glues in place and has Allen screws to clamp the handle. It can be glued on to any of our shafts at various lengths all the way to full length, so we actually will have an adjustable up to 95", which will be the first adjustable to suit the big guys.

Generally no, our shafts are smaller than most other companies and they are tapered, so there's kind of a double whammy. The handle end is 1" and the shaft end is 1 1/4"
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on June 23, 2012, 09:30:47 PM
I'm finding the groove with the Molokai with my changed technique from the Kalama Kamp. I have to say...I think what Dave teaches matches well with the Ke Nalu design.

I've been changing back and forth between the blades and shafts and have finally settled on the big blade running on a 100 flex shaft. I still haven't tried the x-tuf S but I had a blast today paddling hard on an light upwind/downwind on Buzzards Bay. Wind was at 15 maybe gusts to 20 and I paddled a couple miles into it and then ran back. I love the workout that a good headwind gives me and I can crank on the Molokai with the lower hand grip and the lower stance helps cut through the wind better and track much straighter. I only switched sides today to give my right side a break.

The biggest change I notice though is on the downwind side. I'm catching bumps I never would have gotten a year ago. The bumps were small but in shallower sections they would stand up some. I straighten up a bit more to take advantage of the wind but when I'd hit one of those sections a slight step forward, drop the lower hand and get out and reach and crank hard for 2 or 3 strokes and I'm in. Some long glides on ridiculously small swells.

Bill, I have to say thank you to you and Lane. You know how much I rely on my paddle. In bumpy surf conditions, with a lot more standing around waiting, they give me the quick response I need for balance checks. Today I was in the groove with a big paddle that still feels like a feather and it let me move the board so smoothly and with such power even in this chop that I didn't even realize until after I was done that not only had I not fallen at all, I hadn't even done any balance checks. For me that's friggin amazing.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on June 25, 2012, 04:33:24 AM
Ok, here's my review of the KeNalu.  First a little background...I'm 6'3", 240 lbs, strong paddler, technique is probably good, not great.  Usage will be probably 50 / 50 surf and flatwater (lake) paddling.  I'm coming from a Kialoa Shaka Puu and and old Southpoint fiberglass paddle, but have used the Werner Nitro as well as Spanker, so pretty used to high end carbon paddles, which should be a good basis for comparison.  Jim K made the purchase a breeze as usual (thanks Jim).

(http://img.tapatalk.com/4a6521d2-b3f2-1f22.jpg)

I went with the Maliko (mid size) w/ Xtuf-S (stiff) and Ergo-T Handle and left it uncut at 83.5 inches (I  think)  I've had two flatwater sessions on Lake Mahopac...about 1 mile yesterday evening and about 5 miles this evening.  No surf review yet....SuprBowl was with me and I think he came to the same conclusions after trying it for a while..

First off, let me say that I absolutely love the paddle!!  This is definitely the best paddle I have ever used.  I will say, that with all the incredible reviews leading up to my purchase, I was expecting the thing to paddle for me!!  I was a little disappointed that that didn't happen:).   I had to come back to the reality that I'm comparing this paddle to some of the best paddles in the world, so I need to be realistic in terms of my expectations....  Here's what I concluded...the KeNalu takes high end paddles to the next level in many, sometimes subtle ways.  I will discuss each component a little bit to try to give you a sense of my experience:

Handle -
quality, comfortable handle.  Feels a little bigger than other handles

Shaft -
first thing you notice is the "snakeskin" texture....it allows your hand to slide easily down the shaft, but it's more difficult to slide up.  When the shaft is wet this quality is exponentially increased. It almost gives me a "nails on the chalkboard", weird feeling of running your hand up the back of a snake.  It does provide a really good grip and almost feels tacky...you can dial this feeling to your liking with 1000 grit sandpaper apparently.  I think I'll leave mine the way it is, I like it, just have to get used to it.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/4a6521d2-b99a-644e.jpg)

Blade -
Great looking blade, nice shape, nothing incredibly different about how it looks

Now for the paddle as a whole....-

First of all, the whole hot glue thing makes it super versatile.  Easily change components, or what I'm excited about is traveling with it....the biggest issue I always have is that the paddle does not conform to the shape of the board in a board bag so now I'll just disassemble it and it will fit much better.  In water the paddle was VERY light and agile.  I didn't really notice the super solid early catch that has been described by many, it seemed similar to others, however it does enter the water very cleanly and seems to catch well.  During very beginning of my stroke, I noticed a very slight wobble at the very start of applying power which I'm guessing is just the paddle settling into its path and correcting my positioning of the paddle in the water.  I noticed that if i really concentrated on form, it didnt happen as much.  Once it settles in, it really is wobble free and very stable as everyone has said.  The release was very clean.  The recovery is incredible because of the swing weight.  The flex of the shaft is perfect for me, I wanted a stiff shaft w/ just a bit of flex at the beginning and that is exactly what this has.  I suspect I will notice more of the "stacking of power" of the shaft once I get it in the surf.  In comparison, it is a little stiffer shaft than my Kialoa.

Sorry for the lengthy review, but I've been super excited to review the paddle.  I'm thrilled with it and in the end, don't really see any reason to use anything else.  Thanks for a great paddle Bill!!



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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: suprbowl on June 25, 2012, 06:29:00 AM
Ditto!! Can't wait to get mine!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 25, 2012, 06:52:43 AM
If you're feeling wobble, try loosening your bottom hand. Just relax it as much as you can.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on June 25, 2012, 06:59:47 AM
Did anyone else cringe at the blades sitting on stones?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 25, 2012, 12:52:50 PM
My son took all of my Ke Nalu paddles to Coronado for the weekend... Even the paddle that said
DON'T TOUCH THIS PADDLE on a sign above the paddle. I decided to cut him a break and not make him get up at 4 to meet me for my surf. Kneecap lent me an old Kanaha. Wow!  That was a really tough session. Using an entirely different paddle... On a small volume SUP, let's just say that there wasn't a ton of confidence.   Fun little waves. I missed
My Ke Nalu something vicious. Still trying to work out an appropriate punishment for Jr.  So far, I am stuck on "grounded for life."
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 25, 2012, 03:02:07 PM
My son took all of my Ke Nalu paddles to Coronado for the weekend... Even the paddle that said
DON'T TOUCH THIS PADDLE on a sign above the paddle. I decided to cut him a break and not make him get up at 4 to meet me for my surf. Kneecap lent me an old Kanaha. Wow!  That was a really tough session. Using an entirely different paddle... On a small volume SUP, let's just say that there wasn't a ton of confidence.   Fun little waves. I missed
My Ke Nalu something vicious. Still trying to work out an appropriate punishment for Jr.  So far, I am stuck on "grounded for life."

I say you get him an aluminum and plastic paddle and make him use that until he can pay for his own KeNalu
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Ucycle on June 25, 2012, 03:06:45 PM
I say you get him an aluminum and plastic paddle and make him use that until he can pay for his own KeNalu

Now that is child abuse, we would have to call police on that. :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on June 25, 2012, 03:50:24 PM
 Relax Strand... I've raised three of them buggers. Castration always worked pretty good for me  ;)....   Paddle on;  JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on June 25, 2012, 06:21:58 PM
People have been complaining that Pono's an ass, I think they meant that KeNalu Kicks Bass
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 25, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
I confused some folks and created some grief for our dealers by adding the option of choosing xTuf shafts for the elite paddles--it made the price on the website read "from $335" which is what an elite blade with an xTuf shaft costs, but having that combination as an Elite Paddle doesn't really make sense since it's already covered as "downwinder" paddles and you can choose anything you want with the custom paddle option. I was just being clever--sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on June 25, 2012, 09:30:18 PM
Nice fish Beasho...I saw a huge school of pretty big stripers yesterday tearing up a bait ball. I need to at least start bringing a hand line all the time on my distance paddles.

Geez...will you stop screwing with the site.... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on June 26, 2012, 02:47:52 AM
People have been complaining that Pono's an ass, I think they meant that KeNalu Kicks Bass

Just kidding of course, I realize this is a review site and Pono's products and service and even his demeanor are top knotch.  And, the paddle works well for fishing because it is . . .  light and stealthy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on June 26, 2012, 08:21:06 AM
No reason for delicacy. I firmly believe that if you live your life honestly at least half the people you meet will think you're a jerk and half will think you're great. If more than half think you're great you're a fake or a politician (redundant).  For many years my stated goal for leaving parties was to have someone ask "who WAS that asshole". I've mellowed a bit
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 28, 2012, 06:40:17 PM
Wow. That paddle feels so much different than my old one(BW carbon/wood). Noticeably lighter and a much more precise feeling instrument. It's like switching between an M4 and an AK. Both do the job, one is just much less refined. Definitely feel like I was getting the same results out of less effort. Need to cut another inch or so off it, but I'll get it tuned in in a couple days.

Also the stacking effect of the Xtuf shafts that Bill mentioned - its not a joke. You get a tiny bit of flex at the beginning of the stroke, then the paddle stiffens up, and then you get a little flick as you go to pull it out at the end. Very cool feeling and feels very good.

Only thing that was a little strange was the size of the handle. I got the ergo, and it's about half the width of the handle on my BW paddle(that's what it feels like anyways). But its definitely not uncomfortable or anything


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on June 28, 2012, 06:53:21 PM
Thanks for the punishment suggestions folks. As jr had my favorite 20 year old black cap toe oxfords recrafted, and paid for it himself (a pretty penny) ... I cut him some slack.  But if he touches my paddle again without asking, it's gonna get ugly!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fog City Rider on June 28, 2012, 08:39:23 PM
Apologies if this question has already been addressed, but...

any word on the Kenalu adjustable?  what will be the maximum length?

I am in the market for my 1st paddle - new to the sport, will be touring & surfing, and I'm a little overwhelmed with all the info on correct paddle length out there.  I think it might be easier to start with an adjustable so I can try different lengths before one day investing in the ultimate, perfectly customized  one-piece...  ;)

Also I'm tall with long arms (6'2"), would need something that gets up there in length (maybe to around 88-90)

Thanks!  Oh yea - any recommendations on other brands that make a good adjustable, possibly (but not necessarily) at a price point?

/mitch
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 29, 2012, 05:28:19 AM
Just get a Kenalu with the extended Ergo T handle.  The hot glue adjustment makes it no problem to change the length.


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on June 29, 2012, 07:07:06 AM
Any user feedback on the xTuf-S?  Curious to hear feedback from anyone that has grabbed one already and has spent some time with it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 29, 2012, 07:30:02 AM
Any user feedback on the xTuf-S?  Curious to hear feedback from anyone that has grabbed one already and has spent some time with it.

I got an xTuf-S. You can definitely feel the initial flex and the unload right at the end, but it's not so much that it like a wet noodle. It is right about where you want it IMO. I think there might be times where I want an Elite 100, but I think as an all around paddle the xTuf-S is it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on June 29, 2012, 07:12:24 PM
 Surfed with the xTuf-S all day yesterday... My other xTuf (regular) is hot-glued to a Wiki blade but the xTuf-S is currently glued to a Maliko. I'm kinda leaning toward the Maliko blade size as best for me as I like the blend of power and cadence it gives me. The xTuf-S shaft is sure stiffer than the regular xTuf which has a ton of flex. Just can't decide, at this point, which I like better. Gotta get more time on it!...       Paddle on; JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on June 29, 2012, 07:20:29 PM
It's amazing when you hit the sweet spot of this paddle. The stacking starts to give you a flick at the end of the stroke, the blade completely stops making noise, and the board just flies along.


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on July 01, 2012, 02:43:56 PM
Any user feedback on the xTuf-S?  Curious to hear feedback from anyone that has grabbed one already and has spent some time with it.

I reviewed my initial impressions of the xtuf-s a few pages back... I just took it in the surf for the first time yesterday. Again, I've reached the same conclusion as I did in flatwater.... This is the best paddle I've ever used. It is ultra efficient an comfortable, with the perfect amount of flex. I love the textured grip of the shaft but it will take some getting used to. I did feel the stacking effect more in the surf than i did in flatwater and it definitely gives you a little extra boost to get it the wave. Great job Bill - thanks!



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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 01, 2012, 05:46:55 PM
 New update: I used the xTuf-S shaft with the Maliko Elite blade in the Pink Paddle 4-Mile Race at Ponce Inlet yesterday. While this is NOT a serious race per say, the guys and gals out front tend to get a little serious at times  ;)...
 I raced the Exocet Edge Race 14' as the water was flat and smooth with a light offshore wind...
 I was very impressed with this paddle combo for the race environment. The blade enters the water so smooth with absolutely no disturbance or splash. The power stroke is also smooth as this shaft has (IMHO) the "perfect" amount of flex as not to leave your joints yelling at you, yet stiff enough to seamlessly transmit the power from your hands/arms down to the blade...
 I have the paddle at around 80" (which is 2 to 3 inches 'shorter' than my usual race paddle length) as I originally intended for it to be used 'exclusively' for surf (I'm around 5'9" tall). Now it's my favorite paddle for racing!      Paddle on;   JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 02, 2012, 08:51:29 AM
I've backed off on work with the new Ke Nalu wing paddle to get the two- and three piece paddle project expedited. But I took a little detour to do some progressive measurements of the shafts and the stacking effect. I need to redo all the measurements again--my load cell is a little flaky, but first cut, the xTuf(S) shaft is about a 95 Flex after the first inch of flex. That's a LOT of stacking, more than I expected.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 02, 2012, 11:25:38 AM
Bill is there any way you can graph out the load cell readings - deflection over load would be interesting to see, especially comparing the xTuf to the elites.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 02, 2012, 11:41:37 AM
That's what I'm doing. Problem is that I made the load cell from a strain gauge I lifted from a $29 scale, and then connected it to a microprocessor and LCD display. The load cell seems to be drifting, I think I need to revisit the design of the wheatstone bridge I put the load cell into to keep temperature and voltage supply variations from affecting it. Either that or buy a prebuilt load cell--but what's the fun of that?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AJR on July 02, 2012, 11:43:06 AM
I've backed off on work with the new Ke Nalu wing paddle

What's the design intent of the wing paddle as compared to what you're currently making?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 02, 2012, 11:50:51 AM
More catch from a smaller blade. Might be a dead end.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 02, 2012, 03:54:37 PM
Great paddle info here Bill.  I read a heck of a lot of all 60 something pages after making my first beginner mistake (been paddling for just 2 weeks, but love it).  Bought a nice Jimmy Lewis Mission, but flunked on the paddle by buying a Werner Spanker that just felt too short (in fact I figure I'm short by possibly as much as 7").  After doing gobs of research and finally ending up here, and on the Ke Nalu site, the Maliko (2nd) with an xTuf(S) and extended ergo T, seemed to be the way to go (ok, I'm 6'1" 215). 

I love my board, but the paddle just didn't feel right, so I can't wait to try this one out - Ordered it today.  Any estimate on shipping to the NY area?  Need to put my spanker up for sale, but not too soon.  Thanks!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: AJR on July 02, 2012, 04:59:06 PM
Great paddle info here Bill.  I read a heck of a lot of all 60 something pages after making my first beginner mistake (been paddling for just 2 weeks, but love it).  Bought a nice Jimmy Lewis Mission, but flunked on the paddle by buying a Werner Spanker that just felt too short (in fact I figure I'm short by possibly as much as 7").  After doing gobs of research and finally ending up here, and on the Ke Nalu site, the Maliko (2nd) with an xTuf(S) and extended ergo T, seemed to be the way to go (ok, I'm 6'1" 215). 

I love my board, but the paddle just didn't feel right, so I can't wait to try this one out - Ordered it today.  Any estimate on shipping to the NY area?  Need to put my spanker up for sale, but not too soon.  Thanks!

You might want to consider keeping it - it's good to have a spare.  Werner makes a good paddle plus if you end up surfing the shorter length may not bother you...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 02, 2012, 05:50:03 PM
You might want to consider keeping it - it's good to have a spare.  Werner makes a good paddle plus if you end up surfing the shorter length may not bother you...

Thanks for the tip.  I thought about that, but can't really afford to keep it right now.  Had to buy new Thule racks for two cars, and picked up 2 SUP taxis as well!  Trying to make quick trips to the beach as easy as possible for my wife and I.  (she LOVES the new board and SUP now too - I already bought her a Werner Fiji.)

I figured the extended ergo T would take care of any inclination to surf, but that may not happen for years, if at all (I'm a bit of an old dog, 57, and never surfed).  But we'll see.  I'm on Long Island's North Shore ~ 1 mile from the local beach which is pretty flat water most of the summer thanks to very high bluffs - so mostly cruising for now.   
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 02, 2012, 08:27:45 PM
They go UPS, will ship tomorrow, and should take 4-6 days.

Yes, the extended Ergo-T takes care of surfing. Once you have the length you like for racing/flatwater with the Extended handle shoved all the way in, you can take a few inches (as much as six) off the shaft to give you room for adjusting for surf. Most people only need a few inches shorter for surf, but some folks like to go really short.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 03, 2012, 05:20:01 AM
They go UPS, will ship tomorrow, and should take 4-6 days.

Yes, the extended Ergo-T takes care of surfing. Once you have the length you like for racing/flatwater with the Extended handle shoved all the way in, you can take a few inches (as much as six) off the shaft to give you room for adjusting for surf. Most people only need a few inches shorter for surf, but some folks like to go really short.

Wow, thanks.  Got my UPS notification last night and it already left Portland at 2am!  Fast service.  Re: the Ergo-T, I think my handle will be mostly extended to start with, so no cutting.  Using your video clip regarding proper length, I figure I'll need close to 88" overall.  I'm 6'1 with long arms.  My current paddle is 82", so this should feel a lot better I think.  Thanks for the reply, Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fog City Rider on July 04, 2012, 09:50:23 AM
Just got a Maliko w/ the new xTuf(s) shaft, paddle is loose (I can pull it out of shaft easily) & think I might need another application of glue.

 Re: hot glue - does a specific type work best, or are all hot glues created equal?  Any special technique for application?

Didn't see any info about it on the website.

Thanks!

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: fms on July 04, 2012, 10:07:58 AM
SUPmitch, That also happend to me. Although it was the handle not the blade for me and i was 13 miles into a 22 mile paddle. Thank god for duct tape ! Its no big deal to fix just foolish on my part. I was so excited to get it in the water i didn't take my time .Should have tested it on a closer to shore paddle first. Try to find the amber color glue instead of the white or clear. Its for more commercial applications. Any hardware or good hobby store should have. I used a glue gun to melt and heat gun to warm up shaft and handle. 120+miles later and no issues what so ever .  later
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on July 04, 2012, 11:32:51 AM
At the consumer level, I believe the amber translucent stuff is called high strength hot glue or something like that.  It should not be hard to find, but maybe not at a craft store
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: all~wet on July 04, 2012, 12:23:50 PM
Ke Nalu has chosen to take a somewhat different approach with their paddles by providing a high level of flexibility and customization.  With the flexibility comes what I suppose some might see as a compromise in that it is not fool-proof, does not ship ready to use and therefore requires a little more involvement/knowledge/responsibility from the user. I happen to see this as a huge plus. There's a real comfort in knowing exactly how my equipment goes together, how to fine tune and adjust and repair it at a moments notice. This not only assures I have the right tool for the job at any given moment, but also tends towards making me more aware and involved with the condition of my paddle and its readiness. Can't really say the same with other paddles I've owned and I've paid the price a time or 2 as well. It's so freaking easy to take things/your equipment for granted.... to just grab and go.  This is a good reminder that whatever brands you choose, prior to going offshore, it's always a good idea to do a quick inventory and safety check of yourself and your equipment.

Speaking of which, it's now time for me to do a quick inventory of the ice chest and check on the state of the marinade. Don't wanna be caught unprepared, ya knw?  Happy 4th to all!!!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Mana Karma on July 04, 2012, 12:57:39 PM
Having only seen and held the paddle, I can't comment on the actual use of the paddle. Yesterday I picked up a friends paddle though, and noticed the shaft had a good amount of water splashing around inside. Looked like the leak was at the connection with the blade... He had no idea of the leak/water, but considering I am thinking of buying a Ke Nalu, I am wondering if this a result of user error in putting it together? Have others experienced something similar? Can this problem be easily remedied or avoided?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 04, 2012, 01:59:15 PM
Sure. All you need is a hairdryer and perhaps a little hot glue. Here's the easy way. Warm up the shaft a little with a hairdryer or heat gun to see where the leak is--handle or blade. The water will usually trickle out or you'll see a bubble.  Let's say it's the blade. Use the hairdryer to take the blade off and dump out the water. If you don't have enough glue on the ferrule, add a little hot glue by heating the stick in the hairdryer airstream and dabbing some on the ferrule. Warm up the inside of the shaft, warm up the ferrule so the glue is melted. push it back together with a little twisting in and out motion to get the glue well distributed. Line up the handle with the blade while it's all still hot.

Sometimes people don't heat the inside of the shaft enough and the glue gets distributed funny. Usually the only symptom is a little water leak since the ferrule only needs about 50% coverage to resist over 100 foot pounds of torque. Generally you don't need more glue, just remelt, make sure everything gets warm--especially the inside of the shaft, and stick it back together with a little twisting.

Much easier to fix a leak with a Ke Nalu than with an epoxy-assembled paddle.

Now just borrow that buddies paddle for a little run and see what these paddles are REALLY about.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 04, 2012, 02:15:56 PM
 Are you guys sure you are attaching the blades (or handles) to the shaft correctly?  Make sure you twist as you insert...
 I've put together around 9 and have yet to have one fail (of course, I've just now jinxed myself)...              Paddle on; JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 04, 2012, 06:39:45 PM
I need to redo the videos. Make the hot glue part a little more clear. I'm worried about people heating the shafts too much, but it doesn't seem to be happening. It's pretty foolproof if you do it right, but I need to show the methods a little more clearly.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: all~wet on July 04, 2012, 07:05:58 PM
PB, I think you have a process that is pretty damn close. If there is assembly required, it's virtually impossible to be compleeeeeetely foolproof. As a certified impatient fool, I've clearly proven that many times by jumping into a project after having only rapidly skimmed through provided instructions. But... specific, simple, concise, clearly demonstrated, step by step instruction is always a good thing and maybe even followed by a simple quality assurance test to assure a secure, watertight fit. Cheers.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 04, 2012, 08:08:39 PM
I swam about 50 yards today with my KeNalu in my hand in the water, didn't take on a drop of water. Even after setting the handle twice and losing a bit of glue in the process.
Title: Re: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kneecap on July 04, 2012, 08:13:18 PM
Having only seen and held the paddle, I can't comment on the actual use of the paddle. Yesterday I picked up a friends paddle though, and noticed the shaft had a good amount of water splashing around inside. Looked like the leak was at the connection with the blade... He had no idea of the leak/water, but considering I am thinking of buying a Ke Nalu, I am wondering if this a result of user error in putting it together? Have others experienced something similar? Can this problem be easily remedied or avoided?

Thanks in advance

The first time I put mine together I didn't heat the glue enough and didn't twist the handle enough for an even application of glue. The handle twisted a little while paddling and got a little bit of water inside. Absolutely all user error and was easily fixed.

Also, the first stroke I took with it I fell right over the side because the entry was so smooth I had no idea the blade was in the water until I was too far over to recover. Four sessions later I'm hooked.

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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on July 04, 2012, 08:25:13 PM
As an added measure... Just in case there is an air channel, I put some orange tape around each connection.... And a band of orange tape around the shaft just below where I SHOULD place my lower hand... Serves both purposes nicely.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 04, 2012, 08:30:01 PM
I've been using whatever hot glue that my wife had in her craft supplies when I had a need to reapply. I had a small leak after having adjusted the extended handle many time for demos and my own testing of lengths. Each time I pulled the handle out a small amount of glue gets left on the top of the shaft when I push it back in. Seems like 5 or 6 times in and out and you need a little more glue. If you are only installing and leaving it in it works fine so long as you make sure its all nice and gooey. I push it in which leaves a small rim of glue on the shaft...pull it back out with a slight twist which distributes that rim of glue back onto the handle evenly then push it back in with another twist back and forth. Let it cool slightly and peel off any excess. I haven't had any leaks on the paddles I have with regular handles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JakeSupTX on July 05, 2012, 08:24:17 PM
So the type of hot glue isn't an issue? I would like to have a stash on hand for removal/fine tuning, etc. Can I safely use the stick type or is there something more specific I should be after?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on July 05, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
So the type of hot glue isn't an issue? I would like to have a stash on hand for removal/fine tuning, etc. Can I safely use the stick type or is there something more specific I should be after?

Probably makes sense to let Bill chime in on this question, but if you can locate a hot glue called Dura-Tac, I would recommend that. The challenge is finding it in quantities of less than 5 lbs.

Stuff is pretty much bullet proof, and what is most impressive is how strong it stays even in cold temperatures (meaning it won't get brittle in winter water temps).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 05, 2012, 08:44:32 PM
So the type of hot glue isn't an issue? I would like to have a stash on hand for removal/fine tuning, etc. Can I safely use the stick type or is there something more specific I should be after?

If you find some locally let me know, I may need to get some just in case.

Decorative and useful!

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/swordfish1227/54435d76.jpg)


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on July 05, 2012, 09:21:33 PM
Somewhere in this thread, Bill suggested using the high strength, amber-colored sticks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 05, 2012, 09:46:13 PM
Yeah...I probably shouldn't chime in with that. No doubt better to use the good stuff.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on July 07, 2012, 01:06:34 AM
I have used my Maliko Elite blade with Xtuf shaft for 2 and a halve week now and I think I need a bigger blade and a stiffer shaft...

It was the most expensive paddle I ever bought by a big margin but I really have to compare the Molokai Elite with the Quickblade Kanaha Large.

But the Norwegian Importer doesn't have stock and Bongo is ridiculously expensive

What about an EU importer?

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on July 07, 2012, 03:51:33 AM
If you want an EU importer, you need to get someone interested in investing their money in inventory.  That means they need to feel they can move the inventory, at a profit .  You need to start a "buzz".  If you have a local shop that does it's own importing, ask it they carry them, even if you know they don't.  Get all your friends to ask.  Share your paddle, talk about it a lot.  Make them think there is a ready market waiting to be serviced.

If distribution is on the distributor level rather then the individual importer level, then you have to get the shops to ask them for it.  That means creating the buzz at the shop level rather then the individual level.  That is a bit harder, and likely take a concerted effort from many of the EU zoners all at once. 

The process is basically the same, be an evangelist, create name recognition, build a market for them.  EU sales is far more about someone in the EU wanting to sell them then it is about Bill wanting to sell in the EU.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on July 08, 2012, 01:19:21 AM
I have already tried to interest some people no luck till now.

But I can only show them one paddle and to get one more via Bongo will cost me about 600$..

Perhaps I should become importer myself ;D

As long as I could start small I would't mind.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 09, 2012, 10:17:49 AM
Up at Cinnamon Rainbows in Hampton Beach yesterday to talk with Dave Cropper about carrying Ke Nalus. he's had my Maliko demo for about a month to get a chance to see how he and staff like it, what customer response might be, etc..  It's already Dave's go to paddle and we were talking about what to order for the shop. Talk about good timing...as we're standing there talking a customer comes in from a gear demo and lesson. He and his wife want some gear for their place in Rincon. Dave asks how it went, 'We don't quite have the boards figured out yet but I LOVE this paddle, I'll take one of these for sure"..of course he had my Ke Nalu in his hands. Dave and I laughed and he introduced me. I asked if his wife would like to look at the Wiki that I had with me. The paddle is cut for a shorter person (my wife) about her size and while I haven't weighed it I'm pretty sure its under 14 oz...her response was OMG! "I'll take one of each". So if you are in the Hampton Beach area and interested give Dave a call. He'll have them in soon.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 10, 2012, 06:19:20 AM
Anyone used a Molokai with an xtuf or the most flexible elite?


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 10, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
Anyone used a Molokai with an xtuf or the most flexible elite?
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I did...didn't like it. Too much flex for me with the big blade but it was mostly because I use my paddle a lot for balance and need the support and instant response. I went out on a bumpy choppy day with chest high waves and the flex was throwing me off as I tried to brace. It was really noticeable going out through the whitewater. I only paddled it for about 15 mins before going in and switching. I'd probably have a different impression if I had gone out on a clean day. My shoulders are good too so I don't need the relief the flex gives. Everyone's mileage will vary of course though. I'm sure some folks would love it. It's all so personal and the reason I tell everyone they need to demo if possible. If you can't demo but are looking for some shoulder relief I'd suggest the x-tufS or the 90 flex. My go to paddle is the Molokai with a 90 flex. I'm 6-4 265.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on July 10, 2012, 07:27:23 AM
Anyone used a Molokai with an xtuf or the most flexible elite?


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Tried it, didn't like it. I now use the xTuf with a Maliko and love it. Seems to be the right mix of paddle blade size with flex. My shoulders were starting to trouble me with my old paddle, but the problems have all but gone away with the xTuf shaft.

Now if I could only get my lower back to stop hurting...anyone have a paddle for that?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on July 10, 2012, 07:47:25 AM
Keep in mind with flex the length has a lot to do with it.  My Xtuf wiki cut at 75.5 that I use for surfing flexes but not a bunch.  Big Ed at 6'2" or 6'3" with Maliko Xtuf had massive flex.  I attribute that more to the length of the shaft than blade size. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 10, 2012, 08:12:28 AM
I like the xTuf/Molokai combo for downwinders and surfing, though the Maliko/100Flex is still my goto combination. The xTuf(S) shaft is a good combination with the Molokai if you need a little shoulder love.

Superstitious--try a little added length--not a lot, just edge up in 1/2" increments and see if your back pain diminishes. Mine's gone completely, my back hasn't felt this good in 20 years, in fact I've almost forgotten I ever had back pain. It was literally a matter of a little over an inch for me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 10, 2012, 08:39:16 AM
My thought on the Molokai and flexible shaft was that with the proper technique you could get a lot back at the end of the stroke.

Also barring that it could relieve some of the stress at the catch but still give you plenty of power once the shaft stacked.


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on July 10, 2012, 09:08:12 AM
My thought on the Molokai and flexible shaft was that with the proper technique you could get a lot back at the end of the stroke.

But you loose drive where it matters most: at the start of the stroke.
I only use my xTuf shafted peddle when my elbow is sore.I have got a golfers elbow and I don't even play golf.

I like to plant my paddle and pull myself down a wave in one stroke.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tecpartner on July 10, 2012, 09:16:26 AM
Soekip:

Do your hands get wet, so you have to really grip the paddle shaft tight?  I got golfers elbow too.  I belive mine started last summer when I started to sweat, and had to grip my Epic wing paddle (surfski) really tight. 

If that's the case, the texture on the Ke Nalu shaft ought to help.  I think it helped my golfer's Elbow.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 10, 2012, 09:17:43 AM
that's absolutely right. Some people are fine with that, I like the little boot at the end, but if you're not used to the delay it's irritating. I need to figure out a way to get a stiff shaft to soepkip. Freight has gone completely insane.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Big Ed on July 10, 2012, 03:58:10 PM
I'm super pleased with my new xTuf S shaft. I have used it 3 times. I found the regular xTuf to have too much flex for my long 83"shaft. In my opinion the the S is a lot stiffer, but my body is ok with it. I can now paddle out through the surf zone more effectively and catch flat deep water waves that require a lot of yanking. The turbo lag is gone; A factor I liked with the regular xTuf. The S is a good compromise solution for me. All my other paddles are for sale, as I'm convinced Ke Nalu paddles are far superior and refined.

I was not pleased with $30 to ship, just a shaft.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 10, 2012, 06:24:06 PM
Yeah, we're working on that. You'd be amazed how hard it is to fix a simple shipping problem. The last iteration of my attempts gave Tom at Aloha Standup Paddle a minus $301 shipping bill. Good thing Tom is an honest guy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerstitious on July 10, 2012, 06:30:02 PM
Superstitious--try a little added length--not a lot, just edge up in 1/2" increments and see if your back pain diminishes. Mine's gone completely, my back hasn't felt this good in 20 years, in fact I've almost forgotten I ever had back pain. It was literally a matter of a little over an inch for me.

I am talking about back pain that stems from a back surgery I had several years ago.

I will have to play with the paddle length, but that means getting an Extendo handle, which I cannot justify spending $35 for just shipping on. Once the website can charge me a reasonable shipping fee for just a handle, I will give it a try.
Title: Shaft Identification?
Post by: carvemeister on July 11, 2012, 06:23:24 AM
Just curious....I got my Ke Nalu yesterday and glued it all up with a heat gun.  Pretty simple job and it went together very nicely.  Hopefully I'll get to paddle after work tonight.  I ordered the xTuf(S) shaft and the extended handle, overall my paddle is ~88"
Flexing it against the floor, the shaft certainly felt a lot softer than the Werner Spanker I had been using, not that it matters until I actually try it out.  But I was just wondering how would I know I actually got the (S) version and not the xTuf?  There was a small sticker on the shaft, which I peeled off, but I vaguely remember it had the number 70 or something on it.  Sorry for the long question, but just curious how the shafts are identified.  I wasn't clear to me.  Thanks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 11, 2012, 06:34:23 AM
If it said 70 you're good. the regular xTuf has 60 on it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 11, 2012, 06:45:10 AM
Great!  Thanks for the quick reply.  I wish I hadn't peeled the sticker off so quickly, All I really recalled was something with a 7, definitely not a 6.  Not that I really doubted it, but  It's always good to see something to ID the shaft.  I believe I read that doesn't really represent the actual flex number (if that was the intent), and that it's really closer to an 85 or 90, comparing it to the others?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on July 11, 2012, 07:15:17 AM
Great!  Thanks for the quick reply.  I wish I hadn't peeled the sticker off so quickly, All I really recalled was something with a 7, definitely not a 6.  Not that I really doubted it, but  It's always good to see something to ID the shaft.  I believe I read that doesn't really represent the actual flex number (if that was the intent), and that it's really closer to an 85 or 90, comparing it to the others?

It's kind of a progressive rate spring. It's like a 70 flex for the first inch of deflection, then it gets progressively stiffer. This is the stacking effect we talk about with both xTufs.


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Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 11, 2012, 07:18:03 AM
Thanks. I'll report back after my paddle tonight!   ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 11, 2012, 09:50:24 AM
Exactly right. The xTuf (S) feels very flexy until you paddle it, and then it feels almost too stiff. After the first inch of flex it stacks to about 85 on our scale, and the next inch takes it to just under 100.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on July 12, 2012, 10:41:11 PM
Do your hands get wet, so you have to really grip the paddle shaft tight?  I got golfers elbow too.  I belive mine started last summer when I started to sweat, and had to grip my Epic wing paddle (surfski) really tight. 
If that's the case, the texture on the Ke Nalu shaft ought to help.  I think it helped my golfer's Elbow.

My hands are wet all the time, I am going to wax my Ke Nalu shaft from now on to make it even less slippery.
And I will concentrate on not gripping it too tight.

Thanks for your thoughts.It hadn't crossed my mind that gripping my shaft too tight might be the main cause of my elbow problems...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: soepkip on July 12, 2012, 10:58:26 PM
that's absolutely right. Some people are fine with that, I like the little boot at the end, but if you're not used to the delay it's irritating. I need to figure out a way to get a stiff shaft to soepkip. Freight has gone completely insane.

I used my xTuf/Maliko for  a month now , didn't touch any other paddle and still think it is to much flex for me.
And for my golfers elbow a more relaxed grip might be more important then a flexing shaft.

Getting a stiff shaft to me is a very good idea but could you please make it a complete paddle, I am dying to try the big blade...
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 15, 2012, 07:33:03 AM
So Carvemeister--what did you think?

I tried a Wiki with an xTuf(s) paddling around yesterday--I really like the combination. Super smooth, and very easy to drop into a comfortable cadence. I need to get some good speed data on all these combinations. I think it's going to be interesting stuff.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: carvemeister on July 15, 2012, 09:42:55 AM
Bill, I haven't had as much time to get out the past few days as I'd hoped, so I was going to wait a bit before reviewing.  Keep in mind that I've only been paddling for a few weeks so far, so it's a little hard for me to properly assess the differences in paddles.

That said, my first impression was it's a beautiful light paddle which went together great with the hot glue.  I also like the slight shark skin texture.  My first paddling impression was that it felt a lot softer than the Werner Spanker I was using.  But the Spanker was too short for me and also had a slightly larger blade.  I felt ok with the Spanker's stiffness, but the Ke Nalu is ~7" longer, which feels like a much better length.  However, it felt a bit more sluggish to me in initial acceleration.  I also seemed to have a little trouble getting my 12' 6" JL Mission to plane as easily, so it felt as if my top speed was slower - but then I have no real clue as to what I'm doing out there. 

I watched some more paddling technique videos and went back out a little for an hour or so and enjoyed the paddle a lot more after I think I changed my technique a bit.  The paddle is certainly very smooth and does have some pop to it, unlike the Werner.  I have compared a few GPS watch speed measurements and it seems like my speed is about the same as with the Werner, maybe even a bit faster.  Whether it's just the paddle or better technique, I can't say, but as a rookie, the avg. speed I can muster right now for an ~ 1 mile paddle on the L.I. Sound on a very calm day is ~4mph.  I've "apparently" hit a max speed of about 4.8mph with the Ke Nalu.  Again, I don’t have much data and none of it accounts for tides or wind differences.

I tried to go out yesterday for the first time in a sea of whitecaps and ~3' waves and couldn't stand up for more than 5 seconds so that didn't help, but sitting on my board like a kayak, the Ke Nalu had me cranking along pretty well!  Overall, I do like the way the paddle feels and obviously, it will only get better.  Possibly, I may feel like I need a slightly stiffer shaft at some point, or a bigger blade.  I'm not sure, but for now, this is a sweet feeling paddle and I certainly need to improve my technique a lot. 

The extended ergo handle is great, and I love the fact that I can just change the shaft or blade later on.  It’s a keeper for that fact alone., so I see no reason I’d ever have to switch to another paddle at this point.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 15, 2012, 09:57:09 AM
Great stuff, Carvemeister, thanks.  Ke Nalus are definitely paddles that reward good technique, or maybe  just punish bad form. It will be interesting to see how both paddles feel to you as your technique changes.

I assume you've seen Dave Kalama's paddle videos on his site. If not, watch them carefully. Ke Nalu paddles work best with a Tahitian stroke or a very disciplined Hawaiian stroke the never gets past your feet.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rastaman3030 on July 16, 2012, 12:49:40 PM
Alright I finally gave in - ordered a Maliko w/ 100 flex shaft. I'll post an in-depth review and maybe a few pictures as well when I get it dialed in. Looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about Pono  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 17, 2012, 04:33:17 AM
Great stuff, Carvemeister, thanks.  Ke Nalus are definitely paddles that reward good technique, or maybe  just punish bad form. It will be interesting to see how both paddles feel to you as your technique changes.

I assume you've seen Dave Kalama's paddle videos on his site. If not, watch them carefully. Ke Nalu paddles work best with a Tahitian stroke or a very disciplined Hawaiian stroke the never gets past your feet.

I'd one up that....if Dave does a clinic anywhere near you ...go! Probably the best SUP related dollars I've spent and that includes over any gear. And it's something that only increases in value...it's kind of like compound interest....better paddling leads to better more fun time, better more fun time to more paddling, more paddling to better paddling. You've got the gear, your next investment should be in yourself.

More gear will come later of course. A side effect of the circle of paddling is the consumption of large amounts of gear...goes well with beer... ;)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 17, 2012, 05:26:12 PM
We're in Boston for the Challenge on the Charles, picked up the 18' Speedboard prototype from Bob Blair this morning and paddled it. Very nice, very fast. Bob is toast.

The Ke Nalu news though is that I saw four paddlers on the water today in bumping around the North Shore of Mass, two people doinking around on rental boards in Rockport, and two people on what looked like race boards near Manchester-on-the-Sea. I'm pretty sure both the race guys had Ke Nalus. I can spot them at a pretty long distance.

Fun to see that.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 17, 2012, 08:51:45 PM
Yeah.. no doubt I'm toast. That board is hot knife through butter slick.

It was probably Johnny O and Mike or Willis with the Ke Nalu's.
Title: Confused a bit on which to get...
Post by: NoSaltSuper on July 18, 2012, 02:29:50 PM
After reading several dozen pages in this thread, I definitely want a Ke Nalu. But which one?

I'm currently paddling with a Werner Nitro and I've decided, it's too skinny. Super quick, light and smoot, but I just don't feel much power from it.

The Nitro at it's widest is about 7 3/16", give or take a smidge.

I've been paddling two years, usually place in top 3 in Rec/3-4 mile races, I'm about 5'6" and weigh 150 or so. Curretly paddling an 11'6" Amundson Aquaglide, surf style. I'm 47 years young, in good shape and fairly strong. I live in the Midwest so I paddle mostly flat water and want this paddle for racing, not surfing. I do surf, but the Nitro is ok for that.

That all said, I'm leaning toward the Maliko, but am totally confused on the shaft options. Reading about the early flex, then stiff, then pop on release sounds awesome, but which shaft is that?

So anyway, before I plop down almost 4 bills, ideas, thoughts, advice?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on July 18, 2012, 03:07:19 PM
I also have a Nitro, which I still like even after getting a Ke Nalu Wikki and then a Maliko. I paired the Wikki with the xtuf shaft, and Maliko with a 90% shaft.  With my limited experience so far, comparing to the Nitro, I think you'd find the Wikki slighly less "powerful" overall, and the Maliko significantly more "powerful."  For your smaller size and weight, even with racing, I'm guessing the Maliko/90% would be a good complement to the Nitro.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NoSaltSuper on July 18, 2012, 05:03:38 PM
Thanks, that's pretty much what I was leaning towards too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 18, 2012, 06:32:19 PM
That's certainly a fine choice, though you might find a Maliko/xTuf(s) to be good as well.

I'm paddling a wiki with a 100 flex for this Speedboard, because it likes a high cadence. I'm finding with this particular board that a very short pull and high cadence makes it fly. It doesn't like long pulls at all. I'm puzzled as to why, but it's clearly so. Obviously so.

So now we're adding specific board characteristics to the mix and I'm back to not knowing WTF is going on. I can also tell it wants a shorter shaft, so the hotel hairdryer is getting a workout this evening.

Incidentally, we're closing on 1000 replies for this thread. That's fricken' crazy.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NoSaltSuper on July 18, 2012, 07:28:55 PM
Thanks PonoBill for the reply.
But beyond rock resilience, why the xTuff? Is there something inherently better about it?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DW on July 19, 2012, 05:17:43 AM
........... why the xTuff? Is there something inherently better about it?

Energy.

A shaft will flex.

When the xTuf flexes, it doesn't feel like all wasted energy.

There is a recoil kick of energy when the shaft snaps back.

The other shaft models, don't provide this feel.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 19, 2012, 05:19:08 AM
Thanks PonoBill for the reply.
But beyond rock resilience, why the xTuff? Is there something inherently better about it?

Actually I was referring to the shaft. the xTuf(s) shaft is almost as light as the 90Flex and has a stacking characteristic that you might like a lot. It flexes like a 90 for the first inch, then stiffens up to about 100.  For all out racing I still prefer the 100 but the xTuf(S) is good for downwind and cruising.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 19, 2012, 05:43:59 PM
Apparently we've confused a lot of folks with this xTuf(S). I had three phone calls about it today. Perhaps I can clarify. The 100Flex and 90Flex are made of 3K twill, a woven carbon fiber that has vertical and horizontal fibers. The 100 Flex is our stiffest, lightest shaft. Because of the taper, it flexes a little between your upper and lower hands, but not much between your lower hand and the blade. It gives immediate response and transmits all the power straight to the blade.

90Flex has a little more flex and weighs slightly more--about 10 grams. It has more flex between upper and lower hands and a tiny but of flex between lower hand and blade. If doesn't feel a lot more flexible than the 100Flex, but if you have shoulder or joint problems, or you just like your paddle to respond more gently, the 90Flex is a great choice.

The xTuf shaft is unidirectional carbon fiber, meaning it's not woven at all--it's fibers that are aligned vertically. We can angle the wraps at a bias to change the flex characteristics and make the shaft "stack", which means it bends easily at first and then gets progressively stiffer. All shafts stack some, but the xTuf shafts are made to stack a lot. The standard xTuf shaft stacks rapidly after the first three inches of flex, and stores a lot of energy as it does. It also introduces a little delay into the blade pull, which aids the catch and makes the paddle feel VERY smooth. It gives a substantial kick as you stop pulling which is nice when you're chasing a wave.

The xTuf(S) is a new unidirectional carbon shaft that stacks much more quickly. It flexes very easily for the first inch, and then virtually locks up. The second inch of flex takes almost 50 percent more force and brings it into the 90Flex range. At three inches it's close to 100Flex. What's that good for? Well, if you're racing, want fast response and full power from you paddle, but you have bad joints then your paddle will FEEL almost like a 100Flex, but at the end of a long race your joints won't hurt. You won't get as long of a kick from an (S) as you do from a standard xTuf, but it's there, which makes it great for downwind.

As to which shaft is right for you, the order is basically this:

Flat out racing, advanced surfing, no joint problems -- 100Flex
Flat out racing, surfing, some shoulder or upper back problems -- 90Flex
Racing, surfing, downwinding -- some shoulder problems--xTuf(s)
Racing, surfing, cruising, downwinding--shoulder and back problems -- xTuf

Serious power surfers making extreme moves also like the standard xTuf because you can lean into the shaft and flatten the blade,

Hope this helps.
I'm working on a chart.

Please feel free to add your comments about shafts. The issues around shaft flex in relation to blade size and overall performance have not been tested as much as they need to be, and the data we've been getting is inconclusive and often contradictory. We're still experimenting with them. I find new surprises every day. I've been practicing for the challenge on the Charles with a 16' Speedboard, which is a remarkable design. But I find it works best with a Wiki blade, and I'm wishing I'd brought an xTuf(S) shaft with me, I have a feeling it would be even faster. As it is, according to my GPS tests the board is .5mph faster with a Wiki than a Maliko, which is exactly the opposite of how my Bark behaves. I can immediately feel the difference, and I'm NOT a Wiki guy normally.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on July 20, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
I like that,  'if you have' chart type set up.  It'll help when explaining.

My shoulders are miraculously holding up.

Hope all is well with you
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 21, 2012, 05:23:38 AM
 Yes; Thanks for the 'in depth' description, Bill, and a chart would be great, too...
 Rep'ing these great stix and sometimes get overwhelmed with all the questions on flex, stiffness, handles, blade sizes, etc... Anything to make our job easier  ;D...      Paddle on;   JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 21, 2012, 06:37:59 AM
We're having an issue with some blades--some little dimples are showing up, generally near the tip. If you have some you can see them clearly in reflected light, but probably can't feel them by running your finger over the blade. I'd like to know how many blades exhibit these dimples.

They don't affect the paddle in any detectable way, but they are not supposed to be there. We don't know what causes them yet. We are willing to warranty these blades if you have dimples and want the blade replaced, but we'd like to see what happens to the blades with continued use. If your blade has dimples please take a photo and use the warranty form on our website to let us know about it. Please let us know if you are willing to keep your blade. If you are we will extend your warranty by a year to cover any further issue that might arise from the dimples.

You'd think this would be a simple thing to solve, but they show up in a very strange place, where the PVC core is very thin. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with overheating, sun exposure, or any kind of use issue.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mjd on July 21, 2012, 07:39:36 AM
What we have left looks perfect Bill- completely smooth and uniform.  I'll check out the new shipment when it arrives. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: gr8laker on July 21, 2012, 07:54:50 AM
Had my Molokai xTuf for a week now, out on Lake Huron on some waves and just cruising around.  Loving it.  Not just the hold of the blade, but the other subtle features - smaller shaft diamater, sharkskin shaft texture, the extended ergo t handle is super comfortable, and the ability to play around with paddle length so easily - I'm enjoying a shorter length than usual as I tame the Molokai and I might add some length back with time.  Flex feels great and I'm not feeling like the Molokai is overpowering.  For me, the durability and price made the xTuf a great choice.  If I get more into racing I might have to get the 100 flex shaft, but the xTuf is feeling great for what I do.  My Dad just got a new carbon paddle recently from another top paddle brand, and it feels clunky in comparison despite still being a great paddle.

I have noticed a few dimples close to the tip of the blade already but wasn't too worried about it.  I'll send in a photo Bill, and I'm happy to keep the paddle and continue putting it through its paces.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Old School on July 21, 2012, 05:21:26 PM
Bill and/or JD -

I think I'm finally ready to take the Ke Nalu plunge.  Is there a Florida dealer other than the Ft. Lauderdale shop listed on your website?

It's my own bonehead fault for not planning, but I'm headed north out of Vero Beach on Thursday evening, probably stopping overnight in Jacksonville an my way to NC.  Would love to take a paddle with me or pick one up on the way. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 21, 2012, 08:07:14 PM
There's a bunch of new dealers that I have to get listed, I'm travelling on the east cost this week, but JD can set you up.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mdsurf on July 21, 2012, 08:24:56 PM
Outside, 

I just got a big shipment of Ke Nalus in and I am located in Jacksonville.  I'd be more than happy to help you out on the way.  Pm me and we can set it up.  Maybe even go out for a paddle if you have time.

One of Bill's new Florida dealers and happy users.

Mike
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 22, 2012, 04:36:12 AM
Bill and/or JD -

I think I'm finally ready to take the Ke Nalu plunge.  Is there a Florida dealer other than the Ft. Lauderdale shop listed on your website?

It's my own bonehead fault for not planning, but I'm headed north out of Vero Beach on Thursday evening, probably stopping overnight in Jacksonville an my way to NC.  Would love to take a paddle with me or pick one up on the way. 

 Thanks Old School... Yes; See Mike Deeny (above) since he's my newest dealer in the Jax area (and that relegates me to a low-life, starving Rep -  ;D )...       Paddle on;    JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Old School on July 22, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
Thanks Guys.  I've PMed Mike and will give him a call tomorrow.  Hope the schedule works out that we can hook up.  If he also has a Larry Allison Gladiator fin for sale, that would be too perfect. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Old School on July 23, 2012, 06:35:52 AM
Anyone used a Molokai with an xtuf or the most flexible elite?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did...didn't like it. Too much flex for me with the big blade but it was mostly because I use my paddle a lot for balance and need the support and instant response. I went out on a bumpy choppy day with chest high waves and the flex was throwing me off as I tried to brace. It was really noticeable going out through the whitewater. I only paddled it for about 15 mins before going in and switching. I'd probably have a different impression if I had gone out on a clean day. My shoulders are good too so I don't need the relief the flex gives. Everyone's mileage will vary of course though. I'm sure some folks would love it. It's all so personal and the reason I tell everyone they need to demo if possible. If you can't demo but are looking for some shoulder relief I'd suggest the x-tufS or the 90 flex. My go to paddle is the Molokai with a 90 flex. I'm 6-4 265.

Stoneaxe - you're the same height as me.  What paddle length do you use?  I keep hearing from people going shorter and shorter, but my experience with shorter paddles has not been good.  I'm 6'4" and use an 88 inch paddle currently.  Plan on getting an extended ergo T handle so I can fiddle around with length.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Board Stiff on July 23, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
Wow, what a great thread! I started reading it this weekend after realizing I had left my current paddle (an Oxbow carbon one that was bundled with my first paddleboard last year) at the beach, where it was apparently expropriated by some needy paddler.  :(  After finishing reading all these posts just now, I'm convinced that my next paddle will be a Ke Nalu. Now to determine which one and where to buy!

Background/Use: I'm 5'8", about 175-180lbs. I paddle a 12' Oxbow Cruiser recreationally, lots of flatwater cruising and occasional small wave surfing up here in NH. I also do some downwinders on the lakes if there's a steady wind and I can bum a ride one way to the put in or take out point. I'm interested in doing some recreational class racing (going to try the one in Ogunquit next weekend) and maybe eventually try some longer distance paddles or downwinders in the ocean, but for the most part, I'm just out to get some exercise and enjoy time on the water, usually no more than 2-3 hours at a time.

Shaft Material: From what I've read in this thread, the XTuf(S) shaft sounds like the best fit for me. I like the lower price and extra durability of the XTuf, and the flexibiliy sounds like it will be easier on my shoulders and elbows, which tend to get sore if I'm paddling hard. I do rely on bracing with my paddle a lot for balance in choppy waters, so my main concern here is that the lack of responsiveness vs a Flex 100/90 might make me less stable. Any thoughts on this, or whether it's not an issue once I get used to it? Also, is there any disadvantage to a flexible paddle if I get into racing or longer distance paddles? I'm never going to be seriously competitive, so more concerned that it might tire me out faster or generally make racing or distance paddling  less enjoyable. Is the XTuf(S) a good all around shaft for the type of use I've described?

Blade Material: I'm looking to save money here, so either an xTuf or an elite 2nd, which are both similarly priced. The 2nds are actually a little cheaper and lighter, if I understand correctly, so I'm inclined to go with one of these unless the xTuf offers significantly more durability. Any thoughts on this? I kept an edge guard on my old carbon paddle and it survived without any serious damage until I lost it, but I'd rather not screw up the amazing hydrodynamics of my new Ke Nalu by putting an edge guard on it.

Blade Shape I'm really torn here between the Maliko and Molokai. The Molokai sounds appealing, because I don't have a fast cadence and generally feel best when I take big solid strokes that really propel me, rather than less powerful but more frequent ones. However, my impression from this thread is that the Molokai is more popular with much bigger folks or those surfing big waves, rather than a smaller guy like me who's mostly flat water cruising or occasionally downwinding or racing. So maybe with the improved catch in these Ke Nalu paddles, the Maliko will already provide a more powerful stroke than I'm used to with my old paddle, and the Molokai would be more than I need or can handle well? Definitely could use some advice on this, and maybe I'll just need to demo them both.

Where to buy: I think Bill mentioned Cinnamon Rainbows was going to be selling Ke Nalu paddles. Do you know if they've got them in stock yet? I'd love to try before I buy, and would by happy to get one soon rather than using my other taped up broken paddle any longer than I have to!  :-[ Also, are the Elite 2nds available from dealers or only direct from Ke Nalu? And is dealer pricing generally comparable to buying direct + domestic shipping? I'd like to support the local guys, but am already getting skeptical looks from my wife for suggesting that I need to spend $300 to replace the paddle I just lost!  ;)

Thanks for all the helpful posts in this thread already, and for any specific advice anyone can offer me!

Luke
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 23, 2012, 03:34:17 PM
xTuf(S) is a good, all around shaft, you won't notice the flex all that much since it stacks so quickly. For pure racers the 100Flex or 90Flex is the goto shaft, but recreational paddlers and certainly anyone with joint issues will love the xTuf(S).

2NDs are great blades, the Xtuf is a bit heavy for racing I think, but I'm a spoiled baby. If you whack rocks a lot get an xTuf,otherwise either an elite or a 2ND--assuming we have any seconds.

Molokais are great blades for people who like to dig hard. It's not just big folks, Devin Blish in Maui can't weigh 120 and she paddles a Molokai. It's all about cadence and style.

Cinnamon Rainbows is well stocked--at least they were last week. They have elites and xTufs, but no seconds. Dealers can certainly order them, but few do. Generally people who want an elite blade want the pure thing.

Get the wife into doing SUP with you. Then hand her a Wiki and watch her eyes light up. They feel pretty magical.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 23, 2012, 05:23:45 PM
Old School...I'm at 86" for racing and 83" for surf. My arm length is about average I think but both my Vec 14 and my SoCo 9 sit low in the water. I also shortened up both a couple of inches recently. I may go back up and inch, especially for race/distance.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: NHSUPSurf on July 24, 2012, 06:20:22 PM
I'm up here in NH, and am just about your same height / weight.  I just switched to a Ke Nalu Wiki... xTuf all around.  Currently at 81" lake, and 79" surf.  xTuf was great for me due to the fact I wack rocks  :D, and it is cheaper !

At North Beach in Hampton a lot, so I walk to CR.  Unfortunately, they didn't have Ke Nalu's a month or so back when I was looking to buy.  Went down to Surfari's in Manchester, MA.  Those guys are the bomb!  Demo'd the Wiki right out there door, then the Maliko, then the Wiki again.

If you read the entire thread, the one thing you should come away with is that there is no common ground!  120 lb. women with the big blade, 200+ lb. guys with the Wiki.   The Ke Nalu is definitely a different type of paddle... you absolutely MUST demo.  Not sure if CR is set up with multiple demos yet... if not, definitely hit up the guys at Surfari.  Nice ride from NH, good location, great service.  Good luck!!!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on July 24, 2012, 06:42:59 PM
Cinnamon Rainbows just got an order in. He had a few already sold but pretty sure he has a couple of demos available. I can hook up for a demo too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 27, 2012, 07:09:27 AM
We dropped by Bob Fox's Matunuck Surf Shop a few days ago. what a cool guy, and super stoked on SUP. Classic surf shop EXCEPT instead of racks and racks of dusty longboards and shortboards there's a tiny clutch of prone boards and rack after rack of SUP boards. He sold nearly 200 SUP boards last year--in Rhode Island.

Great to have such a core shop, and such a knowledgeable and stoked guy selling our paddles. Diane had to drag me out of the place. I would have been there for hours just talking story.

Then we went to the Matunuck Oyster Bar or lunch. Place is a solid eleven. I had a mixed dozen cherrystones and oysters on the halfshell, a half dozen oysters rockafeller just for spice, and then fried oysters for entree.

Spectacular.

Built right on a tidal pond where they farm the oysters. Fresh? You think? They were restocking rack nets with smolt while we ate lunch.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on July 27, 2012, 08:13:57 AM
You can paddle right over the oyster farm and really get a good look at the way he sets up his system, you just can't hang around too long over the beds or else their "security" boat does a little patrolling.  If you like oysters, which it sounds like you do PB, there's no better place in the area.  And Bob's shop is the go-to place in RI for SUP too, none of the other surf shops have the inventory, knowledge, or desire to promote SUP. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 27, 2012, 11:21:40 PM
You'd think they'd catch on. I'd hate to try to make a living selling prone surfboards--no margin and no volume. I know a lot of surf shops are just clothing shops, I've been to some that have a half dozen boards for atmosphere, no wax, no leashes, and rows of lifestyle clothes. But a real surf shop that doesn't sell SUPs has got to be doing it for love 'cause they sure aren't doing it for the money.

I poked my head into a couple shops in Newport and just walked back out. No point in talking about Ke Nalu paddles in a shop that had no SUP boards. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Southbay on July 28, 2012, 12:49:58 PM
I use my Ke Nalu paddle almost daily as a surf paddle.  Just did the Pilolo Channle paddle (27 miles) and I used the very same paddle.  Just used heated up the hot glue and pulled out the extended T....best paddle out there hands down.  My Kialoas and Werners all just sit there...thanks Bill!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on July 30, 2012, 07:29:35 AM
Anyone have some yellowing appearing on the blade edges?  I have two KeNalu's, a Maliko elite and a Wiki elite (2nd).  Have had both for approximately 2 months and use either or almost daily but the Wiki gets much more use than the Maliko.  Always stored inside, never left in the sun except for the time on the water, even wipe them down with fresh water occasionally to get them clean.   My Maliko blade is devloping a yellow edge.  At first it started on one side close to the top of the blade and then started to spread down the entire side.  Can't feel anything, it seems to be just cosmetic but just wondering if anyone else has seen this? 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 30, 2012, 07:36:16 AM
It's probably a thin spot. The wrap of the blade edges are two layers of fiberglass and two of carbon fiber and the edge is sanded lightly when it's taken out of the mold. What you're seeing is probably the fiberglass-it's easy for the carbon to be sanded to thin on that sharp edge. Keep an eye on it and let me know if it gets any worse or just fill out the warranty form on the website, take a picture and we'll replace it. One of my Malikos shows the same yellow and it's the one I use most--for about a year. Hasn't done anything but it's not supposed to show.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on July 30, 2012, 07:42:41 AM
That's what I figured.  No effect on anything other than looks, just didn't know if it was common or not.  Guess I can't blame it for my slow race result last weekend after all.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPRon on July 30, 2012, 08:33:40 AM
I'm having the same problem with my sailboat.  I've got some faintly yellow splotches in some places and am not sure where it came from.  Maybe something is the rain I'm not sure.

I've tried Soft Scrub with bleach which worked the best, then I used Marine On/Off and 3M Fiberglass Restorer with no success.  The next thing I will try is Davis FSR.  We'll see what happens.  But check around and see what sailboat owners use and try that on your paddle if it is concerning.  I juat haven't found anything to get rid of it 100% yet.  Like I said, Soft Scrub with Bleach worked pretty good.  Another owner told me to try the Soft Scrub and put a bunch of lemon juice in it.  Haven't tried that one yet, just because I don't have any lemon juice handy.

This is what I'm going to try next.

http://www.jmsonline.net/fsr-cleaner-stain-remover.htm?gclid=CN6ssbvawbECFSQ0QgodOgwApg (http://www.jmsonline.net/fsr-cleaner-stain-remover.htm?gclid=CN6ssbvawbECFSQ0QgodOgwApg)

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 30, 2012, 08:54:28 AM
This is a different thing. Ke Nalu paddles have a PVC core that is yellow. Carbon fiber covers the core, but on the edges, if the edge was sanded a little too much the fiberglass shows, and the glass is transparent so you can see the PVC. I intentionally abuse the crap out of my paddles, and I can see yellow on one of mine. Hasn't made any difference, they don't pick up water even if the fiberglass is dinged. But it's not how they are supposed to look.

It doesn't require the kind of abuse I dole out to have the PVC show, I've seen one brand new blade that showed yellow. We're working on some minor changes to the blades to deal with this and the dimpling.

I also have a successful shape for the "catch monster" blade, and it might eventually see production, though I think it's going to be a specialized thing. It is a monster. Even prototyped on a wiki blade it feels like the blade is stuck in concrete. But I did manage to eliminate the wobble. Amazing how subtle the changes were to stabilize it. There's still a lot to learn about these paddles.

Also finding some strange relationships between shaft length, flex, and blade size. Time to get the instrumentation out and figure out what's going on. Who would expect that a shorter shaft, small blade and high flex would be a fast combination?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on July 30, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
I've got that going on my "go to" paddle.  Just figured the spot where I sometimes rub has rubbed away the CF on the edge.  I think I may have exacerbated the issue on my ill fated downwind run on Candi, when form went out the window and survival pretty much dominated my thoughts... I noticed it shortly after that run...  Still an amazing piece of equipment... I just grabbed some permanent black marker and colored it in... haven't checked back to see if it stayed black.

By the way, I moved all of my paddles (distance, surf, flatwater) down a smidge... I am liking them shorter.

SL
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 30, 2012, 09:43:56 AM
Weird about the shortness thing. It's driven somewhat by conditions, but I did a set of sprint tests at Nichols that were clearly in favor of a somewhat shorter shaft. Especially if it's one of the flexier shafts. I'm thinking it's just a matter of the blade being a little more vertical at the catch, and the flex might let more air get off the blade before it starts moving fast. I need to measure the catch to say for sure, but just from feel I think it's stronger right at the onset with a shorter, flexier shaft.

I don't think this a general thing, I tried the shorter flexy shaft with one of my mule blades (competitor's blade with an adaptor so they can fit onto our shafts) and didn't feel the same thing. It also didn't show up on the GPS tests. The competitor blade was at it's fastest with a longer, stiffer shaft. Pretty strange. The difference is not small. Its around 7 percent. Of course that's just subjective, I could be compensating unconsciously, but I did ten runs with each combination, swapping randomly between four sets.

Still learning.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on July 30, 2012, 09:56:33 AM
Interesting, and I hope there's an explanation somewhere in there.  A 7% speed difference is huge, but it's a hard difference to measure accurately over a few runs.  (Kayak racers switched to wing paddles for only about a 5% advantage.)

If you are pushing the boards near hull speed in a sprint test, the smoother application of power from a smaller flexible paddle might keep from wasting energy pushing the board up its bow wave as would happen when the board lurches in response to a bigger paddle.  Other than that, I don't have a clue.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on July 30, 2012, 10:00:25 AM
I suspect that the difference is nowhere near that big, that's why I figure there's an unconscious bais creeping in. But that's what the numbers currently show. I'll be thrilled if there's a consistent 2% advantage.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on July 30, 2012, 10:33:48 AM
Just ordered and received an xtuf Wiki from an online sup store and can't tell the difference between it and my elite blade - do the xtufs have the carbon weave on them?
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 30, 2012, 01:06:12 PM
Just ordered and received an xtuf Wiki from an online sup store and can't tell the difference between it and my elite blade - do the xtufs have the carbon weave on them?

 NO! They are definitely different. The xTuff blades are simply black with NO weave pattern. The Elite blades you can actually 'see' the carbon weave...         Paddle on;    JD
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on July 30, 2012, 01:25:17 PM
Thanks! I wasn't sure, hard to tell from photos. Shipping 2X would eat most of cost difference, it's a used paddle anyway. I'll just tape the blade for xtra durability.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Caribsurf on July 30, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
Hey JD good to see you are selling KeNalu, no doubt you will do a great job for them.

Just put together my Maliko Xtuf(S) paddle yesterday and will paddle with it tomorrow.  Looks and feels great, and it was so easy to put together even an idiot like me was able to do it.  Heat gun helped for sure, thanks Ace Hardware

See you at Surf Expo
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: jdmotes on July 31, 2012, 05:07:04 AM
Hey JD good to see you are selling KeNalu, no doubt you will do a great job for them.

Just put together my Maliko Xtuf(S) paddle yesterday and will paddle with it tomorrow.  Looks and feels great, and it was so easy to put together even an idiot like me was able to do it.  Heat gun helped for sure, thanks Ace Hardware

See you at Surf Expo

 Hi Don and thanks for the "Hola"... Having a blast with the Ke Nalu line. Your paddle decision is exactly my 'everyday' surf choice. I even use the same combination in a few races and liked it for that too! Trust me; You are going to love your new paddle... Off to Outdoor Retailer with Exocet but we will be at Surf Expo too. See you there and looking forward to your feedback.     Paddle on;     JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: crtraveler on August 01, 2012, 07:45:51 AM
Hey Carib - you're gonna love the paddle, I have the exact same setup for a couple months now....love it!!

Hey JD good to see you are selling KeNalu, no doubt you will do a great job for them.

Just put together my Maliko Xtuf(S) paddle yesterday and will paddle with it tomorrow.  Looks and feels great, and it was so easy to put together even an idiot like me was able to do it.  Heat gun helped for sure, thanks Ace Hardware

See you at Surf Expo
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 01, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
I'm still tracking down the optimal length issue. For some reason Ke Nalu paddles seem to work better about an inch to 1.5" shorter than the length people are happy with with their other paddles. It seems like a particularly big deal with Wiki blades and flexier shafts, like the 90, the xTuf and the xTuf(s).

I'm trying to put together a good sized test with people other than me doing the paddling. I'll keep you posted, but I'd also like to hear what you might have discovered.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on August 01, 2012, 11:24:56 AM
Bill, how much does shortening the shaft affect the flex?  I was using a xTuf and a 90-flex at the stock length but recently shortened the xTuf by 4" and the 90 by 2.5".  Seems like the xTuf was affected more than the 90 but I can't really tell.  Not in a bad way, just different.  Or is it all mental and retains the same flex until you start chopping off more than that?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 01, 2012, 01:03:53 PM
Bill I think a graph of arm span, height, and preferred shaft length would be pretty interesting to see. I would guess that those are are the important factors. Some people have huge monkey arms but are short, some people have short arms but are tall.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Caribsurf on August 01, 2012, 01:31:43 PM
JD and Bill,  love the paddle...does everything as advertised.  Took it out on a 8 miler yesterday and what a pleasure it was.   My body felt great and I could have paddled for many more miles.
Hard to explain what this paddle does and why or how, but it's a great addition for me.

CRtraveler- I can see why you like your paddle....Stoneaxe had recommended the paddle combination (Maliko, XtufS, extended Ergo T) and he was spot on...thanks Bob!



Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 01, 2012, 03:15:19 PM
Kayadogg: The first six inches of all our shafts are untapered, so you're not changing diameter, but shortening the shaft does change the flex. But it's pretty small. There's a lot going on with the xTuf shafts.

As I said previously, I'm getting data that I simply don't trust, so I need a bigger test. I'm going to try to set up at least ten people here in Hood River to do an extended test on the relationship of flex and shaft length to speed.

The slightly shorter shaft also seems to be much better for my shoulders. I did a very hard downwinder yesterday afternoon--went with Josh in his OC1 and we pushed it hard all the way. When I finished I could easily have gone back to Viento and done a second run. Part of that no doubt is the effect of doing LOTS of downwinders, but my shoulders are actually feeling better after a downwinder than before it. Like my knee feels better after a bike ride--heavily exercised but loose and warm.  
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Board Stiff on August 02, 2012, 05:32:04 PM
Just wanted to follow up on my post from a week or so ago looking for advice on selecting a Ke Nalu paddle. Thanks for all the feedback. I got over to Cinnamon Rainbows this week and got to try out an XTuf Molokai. Great paddle! I couldn't believe how light it felt, even though it's probably the heaviest configuration they make.

I definitely noticed some flutter, but I'd guess it's because I was gripping it pretty tight, pulling hard against some wind and chop with a paddle that was a little bit shorter than I'd generally use. I was really impressed though how easy it felt getting moving pretty quickly, even against the wind.

Anyway, I decided to buy one, and wanted to give a shout out to Bill, and Dave and Kevin over at Cinnamon Rainbows for their help. I'm ordering a Molokai Elite 2nd with XTuf(S) blade and ergo-T handle and will report back on that one when I get it.

Luke
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 02, 2012, 07:44:42 PM
Yeah, for sure, loosen your hand, especially your lower one. Molokais track very straight, but they won't accept any attempt at guidance from you. You're in charge of pulling, they are in charge of steering. Takes a little getting used to.

Cinnamon Rainbows seems to be one heck of a good shop. Next time I'm on the East Coast I need to drop by there and Never Board in Rhode Island. Gotta say, East Coast surf shops are pretty cool. I loved the vibe and the layout at Matunuck Surf Shop and Surfari in Manchester.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 05, 2012, 10:24:52 AM
Is anyone practicing with a choked-down position on a Ke Nalu paddle? If so, do you have some idea of how far you typically move your upper and lower hands down the paddle? 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 05, 2012, 12:29:10 PM
Top hand only 3 or 4 inches, bottom hand probably 6 or 7 inches or so. Less choke up than I use on my other paddle when doing the same thing, even though that paddle is shorter.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 08, 2012, 06:16:57 AM
That's what I'm finding works best also. One more thing to be confused about. Looking at Connor's position with his Starboard paddle he gets both hands down about 15 inches--sometimes more. I've been trying a choked-down position on a Wiki and the best result seems to come no more than 8-10 inches.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 08, 2012, 09:50:18 AM
That's what I'm finding works best also. One more thing to be confused about. Looking at Connor's position with his Starboard paddle he gets both hands down about 15 inches--sometimes more. I've been trying a choked-down position on a Wiki and the best result seems to come no more than 8-10 inches.

Yeah. It's interesting to me how little I move the top hand down compared to the bottom hand. My top hand is only 1-2" below the handle joint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: blueplanetsurf on August 08, 2012, 12:24:08 PM
I just wanted to make post #1001.  Nothing comes close to Ke Nalu paddle stoke
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: headmount on August 08, 2012, 12:33:41 PM
Is there a door prize?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: upwinder on August 08, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
Is anyone practicing with a choked-down position on a Ke Nalu paddle? If so, do you have some idea of how far you typically move your upper and lower hands down the paddle?  

Yeah been working on it a little. A bit like swordfish I reckon I go about 4" down for top hand, maybe a little more.  I just let my lower hand go where it wants to, looks about 6-7" for lower hand...I seem to favour a bit wider grip when choking down.

On length...I went 'short' at first with the Wiki, around 9 1/2 to 10" (I'm 6'2)...then went as long as 12" overhead, felt more at ease with a taller stance there for a while but lost leverage & power, now I'm wanting to go shorter again, currently about 10 3/4" and still feeling like I want it shorter. More to do with me than the paddle I think, FWIW over our winter I've been riding a bike up hills, surfing a bit, stretching a lot and and lost some lard...my leg strength, flexibility, balance and reach have all improved as a result.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 08, 2012, 05:35:59 PM
Is there a door prize?

There is!!  Swordfish gets a free paddle and bag of his choice, and I'm sending Tom a whole bandolier of them for starting this thread in the first place. Swordfish--please PM me you address, paddle choice and bag color. Tom, I already have yours.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 08, 2012, 07:33:53 PM
Is there a door prize?

There is!!  Swordfish gets a free paddle and bag of his choice, and I'm sending Tom a whole bandolier of them for starting this thread in the first place. Swordfish--please PM me you address, paddle choice and bag color. Tom, I already have yours.

Wow awesome! Thanks Bill!


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Title: Ke Nalu review tops 1000 replies
Post by: PonoBill on August 09, 2012, 10:48:42 AM
Wow, that's pretty wild. All those reviews and comments and we still haven't had one that says our paddles suck toads. I'm pretty upset about the dimple problem we've been having on the blade tip, but we'll get that fixed.

We've been damned slow to get our adjustable part (trust me, you wouldn't have wanted version one) and our three and four piece travel bits done, not to mention no cool clothing, no stickers, and our labeling still sucks. We have a lot to do, but it helps a lot to get the basics right--a blade design that's a couple of steps forward, modular construction that's as strong and light as permanent gluing, an upgrade path for all paddles, a lot of fiddling with flex, adjustability without clicking, wiggling and leaking, and a lot of customization (with a lot more to come).

We'll get all that stuff done and there's more to come. We're working on some new blades at both ends of the paddlers spectrum--something for people that want mega-catch, and something for people who think a Wiki is too big.

Our overarching design philosophy is to make incremental, measurable improvements to everything we do--the whole "Powered By Physics" thing. But also EVERYTHING we do will apply to EVERY Ke Nalu paddle we ever made. We'll have some pretty interesting things to show off soon.

Thank you so much, all of you whose comments and ideas make our paddles better, and thanks to Randy and Chan for the great venue.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Deadbait on August 09, 2012, 11:43:57 AM
Congrats PonoBill!  I 've been reading all the posts and can't wait to get one.  I am waiting for the adjustable, but glad that you are waiting until it is done right.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on August 09, 2012, 12:21:27 PM
Got two paddles. Now I'll just wait a while and order myself a cool T-shirt and an extended handle  :)

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Caribsurf on August 09, 2012, 10:47:57 PM
Hey Bill is KeNalu going to have a booth at Surf Expo in September?  Great venue to sell some paddles
Loving my paddle
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mjd on August 10, 2012, 09:22:12 AM
Hey Bill is KeNalu going to have a booth at Surf Expo in September?  Great venue to sell some paddles
Loving my paddle

We'll be there and that ^ would be awesome!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Rastaman3030 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:17 AM
Like many experienced paddlers who scroll through 68 pages of reviews, I was a bit skeptical. How could this new paddle on the market improve upon the proven and time tested manufacturers? Well, I ordered a Ke Nalu Maliko 100Flex to find out.

In short - I love it. The Ke Nalu Maliko is exactly how each and every member has described it before me. It is not a gigantic leap forward, instead my new Maliko is just so clean at the catch, so comfortable, so light, and very powerful. My previous paddles included the big names elite paddles and this is by far the best paddle I have used from any of them. The thickness of the shaft is perfect (*cue "that's what she said) for my hand size and the swing weight is so light. It has NO flutter. It is currently 11.5" above my head, I'm going to take an inch and a half off to bring it down to 82" and it will be just right.

Great job Pono - I should've ordered one sooner  :) It would've been great to have for the Maui to Molokai, I guess there's always next year.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 10, 2012, 04:41:20 PM
Hey Bill is KeNalu going to have a booth at Surf Expo in September?  Great venue to sell some paddles
Loving my paddle

Perhaps, we need to see how the schedule goes. We have some family issues that are making things pretty challenging lately.

Glad you like the paddle Rastaman. You have just the right stroke to appreciate it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Old School on August 12, 2012, 08:02:35 AM
Count me among the Ke Nalu converts!

I picked up a maliko with an extended T handle two weeks ago from Mike Deeney in Jacksonville, FL.  Haven't even fiddled around with adjusting the length yet, but I love the paddle!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Expat Paddler on August 15, 2012, 03:30:06 AM
Finally got my hands on a Ke Nalu after having it shipped here to Hungary. First time on the water with it was this last weekend at a small 8k race in Vienna. My shoulders are usually the first thing to get tired on me. I hadn't paddled in over 2 weeks, but had very little fatigue in my shoulders by the end. Coincidence? I can't say for sure, but i was quite happy nonetheless. Only problem is, now the wife wants one. Sure wish I would have went ahead and ordered them both at the same time and saved myself on some shipping costs.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: DurhamSUP on August 15, 2012, 12:19:40 PM
Bill, I was really looking find a reason why the paddle sucks toads, but I just couldn't find one.  ;)

I have the Maliko with xtuf stiff shaft and I'm loving it. I have about 50 miles of flat water in and a few surf sessions. I am most amazed on how it changed my stroke (for the better I think). I am more comfortable now with a shorter stroke and higher cadence. I think my old paddle had too much flutter and wouldn't settle in time with a short stroke.

One other thing I noticed is that it works better than most paddles as a stabilizer when waiting for a wave in choppy conditions. Maybe it's the flex and the stacking of the shaft or the blade shape, but it feels so solid when you plant the blade and give it a light sweeping stroke to help you balance. 

I also like when I hand it off to someone else to try and they don't notice a big difference at first. Then I give them back their own paddle a little later, and the look on their face is priceless. You would think I just handed them a 2x4.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: supfoo on August 15, 2012, 07:32:54 PM
Just ordered my paddle, cant wait till Monday!
Trying to be prepared when it gets here, what  hot glue is recommended?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 15, 2012, 07:35:31 PM
Just ordered my paddle, cant wait till Monday!
Trying to be prepared when it gets here, what  hot glue is recommended?

Hot glue is already on the paddle. Cut, heat, plug it in. Repeat as necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Naishguy on August 16, 2012, 07:11:51 AM
ordered mine, Lee was great to deal with! its cut to length and the extended handle will give me adjustment. can wait for it to show up!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 17, 2012, 07:45:28 AM
Thanks Durham. Glad to hear you like the paddle. You're right, our paddles really need a demo for people to understand what's different about them. It why we're starting to focus more on dealers.

Supfoo, take a look at the video on the site to learn how to measure, cut, and assemble your paddle. They need updating, but they'll give you the basics.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fishman on August 17, 2012, 08:08:41 AM
Bill, I was really looking find a reason why the paddle sucks toads, but I just couldn't find one.  ;)

How about the fact, you have to paddle a lot longer to get a good work out.
How about, the only color they come in is black.
How about, all the people bug-en you to try your Paddle.
And how about that guy who makes them, I hear he's fat & really old!

So yeah they do suck toads,

Until I can afford one they do really SUCK TOADS!  >:(
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fishman on August 19, 2012, 06:33:10 PM
All kidding aside, DurhamSUP review speaks volumes.


"I also like when I hand it off to someone else to try and they don't notice a big difference at first. Then I give them back their own paddle a little later, and the look on their face is priceless. You would think I just handed them a 2x4."
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on August 21, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
So, I've finally ordered my Ke Nalu paddle from my nearest dealer, and it's on its way.

I live in the UK. It is costing me when all taxes, postage etc is paid, £400 GBP.

At today's exchange rate that is $631 US.

At that price, the damn thing had better jump straight out the box and offer me carnal relations on the spot.

PB - you are going to have to do something about that price if you want to sell many in Europe. This price is about 25% more than a top-of-the-range Quickblade or Kialoa here, and 220% more than full carbon paddles from other local brands (including one that weighs 20.5 oz).

I must have been crazy to pay that kinda money...I'm suffering post-payment guilt...this had better be a pretty spectacular paddle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SoCalSupper on August 21, 2012, 05:03:24 PM
At that price, the damn thing had better jump straight out the box and offer me carnal relations on the spot.

It will but thats extra $ and you have to give the paddles bodyguard snax and a tip.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on August 21, 2012, 05:14:20 PM
At that price, the damn thing had better jump straight out the box and offer me carnal relations on the spot.

It will but thats extra $ and you have to give the paddles bodyguard snax and a tip.

When I showed someone my KeNalu paddle with the Xtuf shaft.  He called the shaft the "for her pleasure" shaft because it was ribbed.  Thought that was kind of funny.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 21, 2012, 05:29:16 PM
So, I've finally ordered my Ke Nalu paddle from my nearest dealer, and it's on its way.

I live in the UK. It is costing me when all taxes, postage etc is paid, £400 GBP.
At today's exchange rate that is $631 US.

At that price, the damn thing had better jump straight out the box and offer me carnal relations on the spot.

PB - you are going to have to do something about that price if you want to sell many in Europe. This price is about 25% more than a top-of-the-range Quickblade or Kialoa here, and 220% more than full carbon paddles from other local brands (including one that weighs 20.5 oz).

I must have been crazy to pay that kinda money...I'm suffering post-payment guilt...this had better be a pretty spectacular paddle.

Geez.  That sucks. I thought we had a distributor lined up three times now, but so far they've all faded away. I guess we need to get our ducks in a row and go to some of the expositions to line up distributors and more dealers, but I REALLY hate doing that kind of stuff.

One thing people have been telling me is that we need an entry level version for the distributors to consider them full-line paddles. Distributors don't consider our xTuf line to be entry level, and I understand that. They really aren't.  We have a really good solution to that on the way, and some of you that understand our penchant for interchangeability can probably guess the direction already--an inexpensive molded plastic blade that fits our standard shafts. The blade design will be more or less identical to the Elite Ke Nalus, so the performance will be similar, they'll simply be a lot heavier. But once you're ready to have a full-on race blade you just buy a blade, break out the hair dryer, and presto. If you go whitewater paddling you just swap back.

What do you guys think of that? Some folks I talked to got all twitchy about the idea until they realized it would be completely upgradeable. I think we could retail it at about $150.  And yeah, our Elite blades are crazy expensive to make.

PS, Diane just walked in to my office and I told here about the price in the UK. Her comment--"I think he's already had carnal relations".
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on August 21, 2012, 06:22:24 PM
My body was a little bit beat on Sunday so I went Wiki (elite 100 shaft) to do some surfing on my Naish Glide 14...

That little bugger grabs a lot of water for its size!  I have been using the Molokai for everything... and have been quite pleased, especially with the control during surfing... But GOODNESS gracious... the next time I am going to be logging three to four hours going up and down the coast, the Wiki will be in my hands.

I have been thinking about it for a few days (and stirring up trouble on another thread) but the only words that come to mind are words like "effortless" and "easy" and "super duper smooth."

It was such a revelation that I am tempted to try one with my regular surf standup again... (not another variable!!!)

If you have some extra coin around... and want to switch things up a bit... you could do a lot worse than picking up a Wiki blade.

Sorry Euro folks, but you are going to need to spend another $350-500 for the Wiki blade... you just are... :)

Dammit Bill!

SL

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Matt Ivey on August 21, 2012, 07:26:12 PM
Having an entry level paddle will make a huge difference for small shops like ours.  At the $150  price range with the option to upgrade you can't beat that! 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 21, 2012, 08:19:24 PM
I may be able to get our guys in if we could get an entry level as well as the high end stuff. I really need to put the paddle in the boss's hands for a while, then hand him my old paddle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 22, 2012, 06:39:39 AM
It was such a revelation that I am tempted to try one with my regular surf standup again... (not another variable!!!)


Weird, huh. I don't know what gives with Wikis after you've been paddling Ke Nalu paddles for awhile, but anyone reading this thread early on knows I was NOT a Wiki fan. I felt like it forced me to a higher cadence that I wasn't comfortable with. I used a Molokai with an xTuf shaft for downwind and a Maliko with a 100Felx for racing and surfing. Then I tried a Wiki with an xTuf(S) shaft on the Speedboard I used at the Challenge on the Charles and it worked amazingly well. So I did a paddle test in Nichols boat basin when I got back to HR and found out that for me a Wiki on an xTuf(S) shaft with the shaft 2" shorter than I usually use is the fastest combination--by a suspiciously big margin.

I'm going to do a paddle test next week with the race team from Big Winds, because I think my data has to be bullshit. But the bottom line is that I'm using a wiki for everything lately. It's changed my stroke, I put the power into the pull very early, as soon as I goes into the water I'm pulling. Doesn't bother my shoulders at all, in fact they feel amazingly good.

TJ from Big winds is going through the same thing. He picked up a Wiki about a week ago after about eight months with a Maliko and used the Wiki to come in second overall in the Open class at the Gorge Challenge course race. The next day he raced the downwind and used his Maliko. Afterwards he told me he should have used the Wiki, like I did. He's convinced he would have been faster.

I don't have ANY idea what this is all about. Brother Bob tried the same combination and said it felt gutless. I didn't like it at all until just recently. Maybe paddling the Maliko changed my stroke enough for the Wiki to start working? I don't feel like my cadence is forced anymore.

Odd coincidence that you'd be noticing this at exactly the same time. Are you using an xTuf(S) shaft?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on August 22, 2012, 06:51:52 AM
I'm addicted to the buttery feeling of the wiki/xTuf combo - considering using that setup for the CCBC on saturday. the girlfriend has taken such a liking to my wiki that she has already cut the shaft to her length, has her own bag for it and now calls it "her paddle".  thank god for components, hair dryers and stoneaxe having an extra full-length xTuf shaft laying around.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on August 22, 2012, 06:58:00 AM
That's some weird timing...

As to the shaft, I decided to use the original shaft... (elite 100 I think it is called) as I don't have an X tuff (s), just an X tuff and I wanted to make sure I was getting immediate power due to the smaller bite.

Funny, I didn't want to say in the last post that I felt faster... because that would just sound stupid... but I did feel faster.

Maybe it is because the muscles that I use to "push the lever" (as it were) can get more aggressive with a smaller load.

Looking forward to your testing feedback.  I would do my own timed test, but my time on the water is limited to 100 percent fun... no testing and timing allowed.  :)

Scientifically speaking, "weird."

SL
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 22, 2012, 08:16:46 AM
I'm addicted to the buttery feeling of the wiki/xTuf combo - considering using that setup for the CCBC on saturday. the girlfriend has taken such a liking to my wiki that she has already cut the shaft to her length, has her own bag for it and now calls it "her paddle".  thank god for components, hair dryers and stoneaxe having an extra full-length xTuf shaft laying around.

Your shoulders will love you for it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Area 10 on August 22, 2012, 08:34:38 AM
PS, Diane just walked in to my office and I told here about the price in the UK. Her comment--"I think he's already had carnal relations".

That's pretty funny.

But I'm laughing through my tears.

Bit like my wife does when we have carnal relations, in fact.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Henrik F on August 22, 2012, 11:57:53 AM
First I used my Wiki at 81" and the I went to the Maliko with a 81" shaft. After some time I cut it down to 79" and it felt better. Then I took my Wiki and shortened it to 79" too. It now feels much faster than the Maliko. Same thing in Sweden.  ???

Henrik F
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 22, 2012, 12:32:55 PM
I'm looking forward to this test. If this really is consistent we might be on to something interesting.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on August 22, 2012, 12:35:36 PM
Can't wait to see your test.  Thanks for doing it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: catdailey on August 22, 2012, 05:39:25 PM
Thanks to Jim K, I finally bit the bullet and got my Ke Nalu paddle. 78" Maliko with 100flex carbon. This is one hell of a paddle for sure. I had a great time playing with it today. I can't wait until I really can give it a good test  ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 22, 2012, 07:05:08 PM
Jim is one of our top dealers, glad you had a good experience.  He keeps our feet to the fire for his customers. We think that's really cool.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on August 24, 2012, 05:20:55 PM
Thanks Bill! And everyone should have one of his paddle bags. Awesome bags.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/swordfish1227/488CD830-55EF-43F0-9908-102BFBCA672D-36966-000021471D3C1A29.jpg)

Set the new paddle to the same shaft length as the old one - 60" shaft. puts it at 80" overall give or take a bit.

When it cools off a bit I will let y'all know how it works out.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on August 24, 2012, 06:44:40 PM
I had been using 13" over height with a competitors paddle.  When I bought my Wiki and Maliko, I initially started at the same 13" over, but cut down to 11".  It still felt a bit too long, mainly because the darn blade catches so well, at full extension.  So, I cut down to 9" on the Wiki with 100 flex blade, what a big difference.  I used this setup on my Ace, which got me sitting close to the water line, and on my friends Bullet V2, inches above the water, wow!  I seem to have less fatigue, so I have better paddling endurance.  Also, the recovery and switching sides takes less energy on a short paddle, no more hitting the board or slapping the water.  The short paddle puts me in that bent over position for better core engagement, versus standing straight up and arming it like many do.  What a huge revelation.  I encouraged my friend to do the same, and on his first day with a shorter Maliko, he was considerably faster, and I mean considerably!  Funny how I went from short paddle to long paddle and now back to short paddle.  Cool thing is, what was once considered surfing length, is also race length!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on August 25, 2012, 10:43:04 AM
I am not going to say anything about my surf session with the Wiki this morning... Don't want to sound like a bought and paid for shill... So i wont say anything  But Bill, can you let me know when you get more Wikis in.  Just for my information, of course. 

SL
Title: Ke Nalus can make you cry
Post by: stoneaxe on August 26, 2012, 06:25:10 AM
Yesterdays CCBC saw a LOT of Ke Nalus on the water. But that wasn't what brought a tear to my eyes.

We had a teenage boy at the event yesterday, Simon, who is staying at Christopher's Haven while undergoing radiation treatment for a brain tumor at Mass General. He's going through pretty much the same thing I did. Yesterday was his first time ever on a standup board. He and Dan Olsen the founder of CH demoed some Naish boards while waiting for us to arrive and from all the comments I heard he fell in love with SUP. Simon asked to speak to the crowd during the after party so that he could thank everyone for the support and such a great day. A pretty impressive kid....I don't think there was a dry eye in the house...certainly not mine.

My daughter Jacqui who has always been part of the medical support for the crossing and did it for the 1st time yesterday bought $100 in raffle tickets and stuffed most of them in the bucket for the Ke Nalu. When I asked why she was doing that (she already has one of course) she told me I'd see if she won.

She won the paddle....... and then turned around and gave it to Simon. All I could think of was the day Bill gave me his board and what a life changing moment that has been for me. I was fighting back tears trying not to look like a blubbering old fool while I explained to Simon how to install the handle. I hope this does as much for him as its done for me.

Yesterday was a pretty special event even by CCBC standards.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on August 26, 2012, 08:51:59 AM
Bob, you have a lot to be proud of, on so many levels, jobs well done
Title: Re: Ke Nalus can make you cry
Post by: jdmotes on August 26, 2012, 07:58:23 PM


She won the paddle....... and then turned around and gave it to Simon. All I could think of was the day Bill gave me his board and what a life changing moment that has been for me. I was fighting back tears trying not to look like a blubbering old fool while I explained to Simon how to install the handle. I hope this does as much for him as its done for me.

Yesterday was a pretty special event even by CCBC standards.

  Darn it; Stoney... Always find a way to jerk a tear from my right eye, don't ya!   ;D    Paddle on;   JD
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on August 26, 2012, 08:37:25 PM
i received a werner grand prix a few weeks ago as a birthday present.  nice paddle, light, sleek, etc.  decided to take it on my last training paddle for the CCBC, a 22-miler around Jamestown.  About 8 miles in, i knew i had made a mistake.  shoulders were toast and took days to recover. 

paddled 34 miles (i'm hearing 38?) in the CCBC yesterday.  used my wiki/xTuf setup.  i paddled, surfed, and high-fived a stranger today.  enough said.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: spookini on August 26, 2012, 08:51:12 PM
I had read all the claims about the KeNalu...
That it could provide a longer, fuller, more satisfying experience.
A ribbed shaft, incredibly stiff, more stamina, more power.  Doubles as a towel hook.  Blah blah

Then I used one yesterday at the CCBC.
And had an exertion lasting more than 12 hours.

No, I'm not going to call my doctor  :D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: The_Dude on August 27, 2012, 02:16:21 PM
Is it possible that people are cutting their Wikki paddles shorter because the blade of the Wikki is about 2" shorter than most other paddles? If one were to measure paddle length to the top of the blade (which should be at the water level during a stroke) then a Wikki paddle is the same length as all other paddles?

I'm only asking because I have a Wikki paddle in the mail and am going to start tinkering with length soon.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: VonR on August 27, 2012, 03:06:50 PM
I have my Wiki paddle cut three inches shorter than my other two paddles. Having the paddle shorter makes it easier to pick up my cadence. Although, it does take me a couple more digs to get up to speed. Having a shorter paddle also makes paddle side changes quicker.

I think it's kind of like piston rod length on an engine. with a shorter paddle you lose a little torque, but you gain RPMs.


Aloha,
Jeff
Title: Wiki length
Post by: PonoBill on August 27, 2012, 03:12:32 PM
Well, you have a point, Dude, but probably that's not where the magic is. The length difference comes out of the shoulder of the blade. What we're seeing is an even bigger length difference than the 1" difference between a Wiki and a Maliko. Using the simple extended arm measurement a typical race blade length is considered in the ballpark if you can curl your fingers over the handle. We're using them several inches below the wrist--about 4 to 5" shorter.

And VonR, you don't gain torque with a shorter connecting rod, mostly you change the piston speed profile. In theoretical terms a shorter rod delivers higher torque because with a shorter rod the force against the crankshaft is at a right angle sooner in the stroke while BMEP is higer. In practical terms unless the difference in length is more than 20 percent there isn't a difference.
Title: Weird Wiki Test Plan
Post by: PonoBill on August 27, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
So here's the plan for the test, anyone see a problem with this?

I have five prototypes for the new adjustable retrofit parts. So I'm going to make up five quickly adjustable paddles and probably three or four heat-gun adjustables.  A Wiki with xTuf(S), one Wiki with 100 Flex, one Maliko with xTuf(S) and one Mailko 100 Flex. Maybe one Molokai xTuf(S) just for the heck of it.

I'm building a 50' floating "ruler" similar to what Jim Terrell did with the stroke test he did a few years ago. a line of black tape every foot on white PVC pipe. Then we shoot video of each paddler with a flash card before they enter the measured course to show what paddle they are using. Paddlers will use their current race paddle, a Wiki 100F and xTuf(S) with the same length as their current, Wikis adjusted to 3" and 5" shorter than their current paddle, and Malikos adjusted like the Wikis. We'll randomly mix up the paddles and do each combo at least twice. Any runs that the paddler feels is less than best effort will be marked for later examination and repeated.

We'll measure speed by counting the number of feet the nose of the board reached in a specific number of frames. I planned to use GPS, but I think the accuracy is questionable.  We'll also have a visual record of stroke length and cadence for future analysis.

Comments? Questions? Ideas?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: VonR on August 27, 2012, 04:42:29 PM
Bill,

Are you going to do a standing start or a rolling start? It would be interesting to do a comparison of the two.

Aloha,
Jeff
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on August 27, 2012, 04:51:36 PM
Bill,

It looks like you are doing a speed test.  Is that right?  Problem that I see is not many of us do quick sprint races.  When I look at my gps data just on a different scale averaging per minute, my bent shaft werner nitro was easily just as fast but I could not maintain the speed.  Overall my wiki was so much faster over a longer course because it was that much easy to stay at a faster pace.  Am I looking at this wrong?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on August 27, 2012, 04:58:59 PM
Seems like a good test.  It would be nice to have longer than 50', since that's only a few strokes, but I could see longer being impractical and hard to film well.  

I know the Terrell video had a different aim than your test, but there was something about being able to see the actual feet traveled that made it more understandable than just having a time from a clock.

Why did you decide to do the test with the measuring pipe instead of with a longer measured course--say 100 yards or more?

Apart from the test, I think you're going to get a lot of good feedback about paddle length from people once they have the quickly-adjustable paddle.  There's nothing like being able to adjust back and forth among different lengths in a couple seconds mid-paddle for feeling the difference that a different length makes.
Title: Re: Wiki length
Post by: Celeste on August 27, 2012, 05:18:06 PM
. In practical terms unless the difference in length is more than 20 percent there isn't a difference.
Now this is my language, and it all depends on the intake port.  Long rods accelerate away from TDC slower, so intake port velocities are lower.  If the port and intake runner length are optimized for short rods so that peak intake velocities are about mach .94 (Z=0,94), then changing to a longer rod will slow the port velocity which lowers the energy in it, so there is less cylinder charging after BDC.  You would have to raise the rpm limit to gain the energy lost.  If you go the other way and install short rods under a port optimized for long ones, then you are likely to get very hard self limiting at a lower RPM as the intake charge tries and fails to go super sonic.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 27, 2012, 05:49:40 PM
Celeste--Yeah, I wasn't going to go there, we can wander far afield here. I've done a lot of home-grown engine development, building computer models for intake design, porting for two strokes and expansion chamber design. Dead end stuff. Long time ago--evidenced by the fact that the computers the models ran on were an IBM 360 and a PDP1. About as useful now as being a former nuclear reactor operator.

Boludo -- yup, the first pass will be just speed. I want to do something longer later, but I need to get my speed sensor stuff working again. It's stuffed in a box in the garage. GPS is too flaky.

VonR -- rolling, in fact I'm going to have them get up to speed with a 50 yard run prior to the video segment. I'll put a GPS on the board, and record everything, but I don't expect much from that, and it's easy to lose your place without a good marker. I think I should be able to correlate GPS pass to Video pass for individual riders, but this is the poster child for ADD running this test.

PDX -- it's as much a matter of being able to see the pipe marks as anything else. I might make it longer if it's practical. I'm kind of guessing. Well, there's really no "kind of" about it.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPpaddler on August 27, 2012, 06:26:59 PM
I assume that idea is to have the paddle be the only variable between runs of the same paddler.  The trick then is to get each run with the same paddler to be at the same level of effort.  It may be tempting to believe that a sprint is best for getting a consistent effort, but that may not be true, or even best. 

Most paddlers will have a consistent pace they can maintain either at their "touring" effort, or maybe "exercise" pace, or race pace.  I would let each paddler decide what level of effort he can best apply consistently accross paddles.  Besides, a sprint is not the ideal condition to study the paddle differences because most paddling is not done at sprint speed, and technique may be degraded anyway. 

Also, have the measured course be just a small ending segment of the total "run" so that paddlers will settle down into their pace.  Their primary directive should be to maintain the same exertion level across runs regardless of different stroke rates with the different paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on August 27, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
This is going to be fun to see what comes out of it. Wish I was out there to help...always a good time too. I know firsthand what kind of effort Bill puts into getting this stuff wired. I assume/hope that Diane is actually organizing most of it. Everyone may actually get some decent food that way.... ;D
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 28, 2012, 08:43:46 AM
I think everyone will put on a bit of a show when they hit the timing section, but we'll be swapping paddles out each run, so I think it will even out over a number of runs and a number of paddles. I'm not expecting something definitive. I think each paddler will wind up doing about 30 runs. It's going to take a while.

Diane perked up at the prospect of baking some stuff, but I don't plan this to be an event. In fact I'm going to leave the timing section in the water for a while and spread this out over a week or two. My schedule keeps conspiring against me, I hope to get the timing section set up today.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TEX_SUP on August 28, 2012, 11:38:07 AM
Be sure to run the angles and math on parallax effect from your camera position to the first and last stripe on your 50' measuring stick.   The distance the paddler is passing behind the stick will need to be checked too.

Probably negligible but you wouldn't want people to question it without knowing whether or not it makes a difference.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on August 28, 2012, 09:09:14 PM
The test facility. Shot this with my iphone, I hope my Sony NEX picks up the tape markings a lot better. it's a 60' section. Might have to add a few more floats to pick it up a bit. Or get a more downward angle.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 808 on August 30, 2012, 02:31:25 PM
Just got a Wiki Elite blade, Xtuff shaft, Extended handle. I got it at Blue Planet of Ward. I highly recommend going in to get the paddle from them if you are on Oahu. They also gave me some shrink wrap for the seams which I really like. I cut it 3" lower than the normal so I can play with the length.

What a difference this paddle makes it really does live up to the hype. I am coming off shoulder surgery and my Kialoa Methane was just killing my shoulders. Took the paddle out today and it was butter on my shoulder. Anyone want to by a Methane. Thanks Bill..
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 02, 2012, 11:16:13 AM
I think I understand the Wiki effect. Finally got to paddle with my wiki today, and brought my Maliko along so I could switch back and forth.

Wiki elite, 100 flex blade, ergo handle.
Maliko second, xTuf(s), ergo handle.
Both shafts(by themselves) are 60" long.

Impressions:

Wiki definitely feels lighter in hand after holding the Maliko. Idk if it's the blade or the shaft, but definitely lighter.

I do feel faster with the wiki for sure. No quantitative data yet, but the board feels faster through the water.

The catch feels the same between the two setups, I think the xTuf(s) lightens up the Maliko just enough to feel like the 100 wiki.


I think the "wiki effect" is the blade traveling faster through the water. Even though the blade isn't pushing as much water, the added speed does more for propulsion than the reduced volume.

Think of it as wheel spin in a car. A perfect launch involves some amount of wheel spin. Too much spin and you don't go anywhere. Too little spin and the engine loses too many revs and drops out of the power band.

The wiki works for most of us because we aren't massively strong. I bet if you're strong enough you will end up with too much slip with the wiki, and the Maliko will be a better option.

Bill it would be interesting if you could find at what blade speed each blade is most efficient. Then test and see how much force is needed on the paddle to create that speed.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on September 04, 2012, 06:41:32 PM
If there is an effect, I would surmise the difference is in the recovery.  A poor recovery with the bigger blade will drag you like an anchor.  A shorter handle will also aid in the recovery.  This is more likely to factor in when the paddler is tired and being lazy in getting the paddle out of the water.  One way to test this would be to fix the cadence for same shaft length but different size blades.  I would also make everyone do 5 intervals before the testing starts so they are good and tired.  Then you should see everyone's true stroke and not the magazine cover version.  My informal testing suggests I am faster on my wiki than either of the bigger blades (same shaft length).  My cadence is a lot higher too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 04, 2012, 06:54:48 PM
I did a little tuning of the course today, changed the angle of the "ruler" to make entry a little smoother, and added another wider band of tape to each graduation to help contrast. Looks good. Now to round up the troops and start paddling.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Fishman on September 04, 2012, 07:08:57 PM
I look forward to your results. I hope you have some tall folks and short folks in the mix, as they may have conflicting results (due to their stoke lengths) that could speak to some other aspects.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 04, 2012, 07:16:45 PM
I'll try to find some storks, I think Rod Parmenter will do it, and he's pretty tall and rangy. What I have sort of lined up is the paddle team for Big Winds, which is all kids. They have the advantage of all having good, disciplined strokes, and they all are fast. They use varied paddles, and a couple use Ke Nalu.

I'll try to get some adults in the mix and some varied heights, but I want all the participants to have good strokes.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 04, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Bill did my post above make any sense to anyone? I was a little tired so I'm not really sure if it made sense to y'all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 04, 2012, 10:06:50 PM
Perfect sense, swordfish. I think you're pretty much right. the big difference in the wiki blade is that it's so much lighter than the Maliko. The whole paddle is about 440 grams and the Maliko is 490. That might not seem like much, but remember the shaft and handle are identical--the 50 gram difference is ALL in the blade. So it recovers very quickly and without effort.

Once you get the blade in the water, it's 84 square inches vs. 95 for the Maliko, but these are high efficiency blades and a lot of that area is perpendicular to the force vector way out at the catch, so if your stroke is good, and you're applying power right at the beginning of the stroke instead of building power as your stroke progresses, then the catch is similar.

Once we get this test data I'll probably start working on measuring the catch between these three blades. There is something odd going on here. The biggest anomaly to me is how the Wiki behaves with the xTuf(S) shaft.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 05, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Also it would be interesting to see what happened if you went one size smaller on the blade.

And I have a theory on the wiki/xtuf(s) combo, but you would have to accurately measure shaft deflection over time very accurately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on September 05, 2012, 08:23:28 AM
Bill,
how is it going with your distributor search in Europe especially in Spain? When can we use your fantastic paddle in Europe?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: JF808 on September 05, 2012, 09:15:36 AM
who's sponsored by Kenalu? Not asking for myself just curious if any of Kenalu's magic paddles have filtered down into the pro/elite riders yet?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mastman on September 05, 2012, 09:41:52 AM
I am really interested in this testing.  I am 6'4" 200 pounds and a low cadence paddler, which would indicate I would want a big tall blade, but it sure sounds like a short Wiki might end up being the fastest. 
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 05, 2012, 10:08:12 AM
who's sponsored by Kenalu? Not asking for myself just curious if any of Kenalu's magic paddles have filtered down into the pro/elite riders yet?
Nobody, really. Well, we sponsored Matt Hughes with some freebie paddles for a while, but Quickblade snapped him up, and we've given a few up and comers some free paddles. One of the things we plan to do next year is get a real sponsorship program going. The details are still fuzzy, but the underlying notion is to sponsor the folks that normally don't get sponsored--the people that win in the open class, or the people that are near the front in the Elite class. Of course that's potentially a lot of people in a growing sport, so I plan on doing some sort of crowdsource voting program.

We plan to do the same thing for charitable donations. We'll keep the ones we already support, but we'll ask people to vote on other donations. We get asked all the time, and don't have the time to separate out the ones we'd really like to support, so we'll ask our customers and friends to tell us who we should help.

I think people assume Ke Nalu is a good sized company, but it's really a Mom and Pop with a couple of folks helping. And Mom and Pop are both supposed to retired and screwing off.

As far as Europe goes, we're still looking. Hard to believe we can't get a distributor there (other than Norway) with all the interest. We have great distributors in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and soon New Caladonia (New Caladonia??)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 05, 2012, 07:45:29 PM
JF, your quiver is a lot like mine, though my Scorpius is an XL
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 06, 2012, 07:53:15 AM
You're forgetting Johnny O Bill. Just freebie paddles but he is a great paddler to have on our side. At 50 he is sharing the podium with a much younger crowd at many of the east coast races...he's also riding for Starboard. Rips in the surf too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 06, 2012, 08:17:18 AM
Didn't forget him, and named him in the first version of the post, but then I realized I was leaving some folks out, some of whose names I can't remember. That's not a slight, I can't remember the names of people I see every day. But I chickened out to the general term "up and comers".
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on September 06, 2012, 03:26:47 PM
Speaking of . . . . I entered my first SUP race this summer.  It was a quick sprint around an interior salt water pond in Ct ~ 1/2 of a mile.  

My East Coast equipment is a bit aged, I ride a 30 year old 12' plastic Windsurfer 'Freestyle' design with a drop in vertical daggerboard.  Needless to say I used some Pella brand window tape to cover the daggerboard slot and headed off to the race coarse.  I was a bit worried about some of the younger competitors considering the one with his thumb up had a 12' 6" displacement hull race board, 50X as expensive as mine, and he was probably half my age.  

That said I hit the starting line hard with my Connor Baxter stroke.  I kept the strokes short and fast the entire race.  I had to bend my knees to absorb the board's end to end flex.  I never saw the other competitors and ended up winning by 5++ board lengths which I attribute largely to paddle efficiency.  They never know what hit them.  Thanks again Kenalu!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: pdxmike on September 06, 2012, 03:50:53 PM
Beasho--are you sure it was the Ke Nalu and not the Pella tape?

That is a great story.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Beasho on September 06, 2012, 03:58:34 PM
Yes it was the tape.  The Pella tape and the yellow speed stripes I put on my paddle, even though Pono hates tape on his paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 06, 2012, 04:53:43 PM
Actually, all my personal paddles have a little hockey tape on them. When I get sunblock on my hands it's the only way not to spend a half hour cursing and wiping my hands on my boardies every ten strokes, I don't put it in the sweet spot, just a little section just below my lowest grip. It dobles as a lower grip when I "choke stroke"

Congrats Beasho, a selection of sponsor swag (stickies, t-shirts, etc.) will be winging your way as soon as we actually have some. No, we still haven't got that done. Yes, we know it's stupid.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on September 06, 2012, 06:16:53 PM
Tried my wiki again.  I think it is faster but my cadence was essentially the same as with my Molokai.  I still think the recovery is part of it.  The other thing I noticed was my blade angle.  I think I keep the face vertical more consistently with the wiki.  I suspect I have to "horse" the Molokai through the water and my blade angle goes negative and slows me.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 06, 2012, 06:50:06 PM
Actually, all my personal paddles have a little hockey tape on them. When I get sunblock on my hands it's the only way not to spend a half hour cursing and wiping my hands on my boardies every ten strokes, I don't put it in the sweet spot, just a little section just below my lowest grip. It dobles as a lower grip when I "choke stroke"

Congrats Beasho, a selection of sponsor swag (stickies, t-shirts, etc.) will be winging your way as soon as we actually have some. No, we still haven't got that done. Yes, we know it's stupid.

I need to do that...good idea....sunscreen slip drives me nuts....maybe some wax down low too to help get some grip back...grab it, stroke it a few times and get your hands sticky...and yes that IS a setup for PDX.... ;D

Yes...some swag would be nice..... :o ::)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on September 06, 2012, 08:44:38 PM
Bill you going to have a both at the battle of the paddle
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 06, 2012, 09:01:02 PM
Nope. I'll be there competing and hanging out, but next year will be our first real push. We're making sure we have our ducks in a row, ironing out production issues. I will have some paddles with me if someone wants to demo anything, but nothing to sell--we have great dealers in the area.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 07, 2012, 12:06:36 AM
Incidentally, we did a pretty successful test of the "speed trap" at Nichols Boat Basin. Greg (covesurfer) paddled his Javelin until he puked, did a bunch of runs. Greg actually got going hard too far back I think, we'll need a buoy marker to tell folks where to start accelerating. I had some trouble with the adjustable adapters, managed to break two of them. I'm bringing the heat gun, some extra shafts, and a hacksaw for setting up paddles along with me tomorrow.

If you're in hood river, have a good stroke, and you'd like to see what paddle length, shaft type and blade size optimizes your sprinting speed, come on by. We'll be kind of hard to miss--big white F350 truck with cameras, generators, a stack of paddles and boards, and a mass of confusion (unless I can talk Diane into helping).

Bottom line though is that the camera technique for measuring speed is very accurate--at least in relative terms. I think the speed calculated from counting the seconds required to go 50 feet (of the 60 foot ruler) is accurate too--especially since it's 30 frames per second.

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on September 07, 2012, 04:40:58 AM
Ditto on the swag! I still wear a QB shirt but I only paddle KeNalu! Please get some over to Tokunaga Store. Our little town got a bunch of KeNalu fans and growing!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mrl on September 07, 2012, 05:28:56 AM
Bill look for forward to seeing you at the battle of the paddle Mike
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on September 07, 2012, 09:50:34 AM
Bill,

At what point are you cutting the shaft too short where the handle has too much play in the shaft?  What I'm referring to is the diameter of the shaft at the handle end is smaller than the diameter at the blade end.  So eventually as you cut down, the diameter increases, creating more play in the handle.  I ask that because I cut mine at 75.5" and it seemed there was maybe a tad more play then what it should be.  I want to order another and cut it down to 72-73" but am worried if the glue is going to keep breaking loose because it's not as tight of a fit.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 07, 2012, 10:18:16 AM
It won't. I've cut them all the way to 48 inches to make a OC paddle, but add a note to your order in the special instructions and I'll include a fat extended handle--I have a few defective ones that were manufactured too big.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Boludo on September 07, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Great.  Thanks.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: HawaiiSWO on September 08, 2012, 11:54:48 AM
Rented one of the KeNalu paddles from Rob at BluePlanet.  Echo the comments of everyone here on immediately being able to tell the difference between it and many other good paddles. Although it would probably cost more (carbon molds) and likely change the characteristics of the shaft flex, would love to be able to get an oval shaft in the KeNalu.  Even though, I was a couple keystrokes away from ordering a 'second' on the website but decided to hold back for now.  I know the cost of any carbon fiber products is expensive but around $300 for a paddle held me back...for now.  Definitely will be the next upgrade for me, if the Navy tells me I have a few more years in Hawaii.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 08, 2012, 01:19:40 PM
If you decide to buy one, you can't get better service than from Blueplanet, they deserve your biz and you'll save $35 on shipping.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on September 08, 2012, 01:53:30 PM
Just a comment on how Ke Nalu customer service extends across the country.  Snapped my blade off last night surfing and mentioned it in a different post.  Stoneaxe shows up today at the after-party of the Newport SUP Cup and gives me one of his Ke Nalu paddles to use until I get a replacement.  Pretty sure you won't get that kind of service from other paddle companies, unless you're on the in or a sponsored rider.  Thanks again stoneaxe.  Pono, you're onto a good thing here and I don't mean just the paddles.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 08, 2012, 07:45:21 PM
Thanks Kaya but not a big deal and certainly not something I can do often. I saw your post and was headed down to watch the race anyway. I've got plenty of demos and with this swell headed our way I didn't want you without... ;D and you are on the in....zoner and CCBC feel like family.

Congrats on the win today too.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 09, 2012, 06:16:03 PM
Lot of people at the Round the Rock thanked me for Ke Nalu paddles. It's pretty fun having people be so enthusiastic.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 10, 2012, 09:20:12 AM
It's hilarious when you hand someone an adjustable paddle, then a carbon/wood veneer BW one piece, then the elite Wiki with the elite shaft. The look on their face is priceless.
Title: Trust the shark
Post by: PonoBill on September 10, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
It would be really nice if I didn't have to relearn lessons so often. Paddling with new hockey tape on your paddle is nasty--it gets sticky and if you too long and too hard the adhesive softens, the tape moves around, and wads up. It's only the old stuff that's tolerable, and that usually after a waxing to get the adhesive calmed down. The only reason to use it is if you get sunscreen on your hands.

For some stupid reason I taped my shaft at the Round the Rock. At first I was just going to tape a section up top so I could choke down and have a good grip, but I had all that tape, and it was handy, so...

13 miles later against a nasty headwind, both hands are covered with blisters and aching. If I had just trusted the sharkskin of the shaft I'd have been fine, or just rubbed on a little wax. But no. I'm supposed to be paddling an OC6 this morning, but instead I'm trapping mice and moles and trying to get my fingers to work. .
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on September 10, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I prefer the suntan lotions that make your hands slick as opposed to sticky. Tried ultimate sweatproof stuff and could feel my hands getting hot as I paddled my wiki, could not wash it off and got blisters. Much easier to wipe off the slick stuff.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 11, 2012, 11:12:05 AM
Bill have you gotten any footage of the wiki/xTuf combo compared to other setups? I have a theory on why it works, but I'm not sure.

I'm wondering if the xTuf is starting to unflex before the end of the stroke with the wiki due to the decreased resistance compared to a maliko. Essentially I'm wondering if that little flick you get at the end of the stroke with a Maliko gets spread over the whole stroke with a wiki.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 11, 2012, 11:24:08 AM
I've shot three runs so far (each one with a different person, paddling six different paddles three times each), but I'm shooting from a bluff down onto the water, which may not be ideal for analyzing stroke effects, I'm just looking at the speed differences. We probably need to shoot from dock level at the paddlers, so I might move the whole thing to the marina.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: kayadogg on September 12, 2012, 01:21:45 PM
Bill, any eta on when wiki blades will be back in stock?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 12, 2012, 01:43:35 PM
They're at the shipping agent now, so should be about four or five days.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 12, 2012, 01:56:47 PM
I've shot three runs so far (each one with a different person, paddling six different paddles three times each), but I'm shooting from a bluff down onto the water, which may not be ideal for analyzing stroke effects, I'm just looking at the speed differences. We probably need to shoot from dock level at the paddlers, so I might move the whole thing to the marina.

Another idea I've been toying around with is an internal flex sensor that you could put in the shaft. would be interesting to see the results if it could be done.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 12, 2012, 04:54:57 PM
Got them, I use a strain gauge hooked to the paddle pod data recorder I built. The only problem is that I don't know what to do with all the data.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Celeste on September 12, 2012, 07:04:36 PM
Got them, I use a strain gauge hooked to the paddle pod data recorder I built. The only problem is that I don't know what to do with all the data.
Set up a data base, start writing queries that match any thought you might have.  Play with it till you are out of ideas, then play with it some more.  Some background in data mining might help unless you like playing with data bases
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 12, 2012, 07:05:29 PM
Got them, I use a strain gauge hooked to the paddle pod data recorder I built. The only problem is that I don't know what to do with all the data.

Does it  give you deflection as well as loading?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 12, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
Actually all it does is give you the amount the strain gauge deflects.

Celeste--that's kind of the problem. I can view the data graphically but I really don't have much to go by in understanding what's "good" or "bad". I shot video under the board and tried to correlate the graphic data to the stuff that didn't look like good performance, but it's a little sketchy. When I have time I'll do a lot more correlations, but between having a life, having ADD and having a zillion projects it's kind of back burner.

Somewhere there's a version of this old article that includes the video we shot and the data the video relates to. But this one give some idea of what we did. http://www.kenalu.com/ke-nalu-elite-paddles/ (http://www.kenalu.com/ke-nalu-elite-paddles/)  The strain gauge is a new addition, I finally found one that is long enough and cheap enough that I could use it. I've still got three channels left for other sensors, not including dedicated channels for pitot tube speed sensors and an RPM sensor that I used to make an instantaneous speedometer. Pretty trick little data recorder for $250

Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SaltH2Opaddler on September 15, 2012, 01:17:10 PM
Pono -

Any word on the paddle testing? Results?

Did your new shipment go out?

Tried the Wiki and the Maliko...both are sweet but only could demo the 100shaft - would like to try the Xtuf(s) in both.

Looking to buy a Ke Nalu asap.

Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Sup-position on September 16, 2012, 06:01:00 AM
Wiki Paddle, X-Tuff and 100%

I have a few for those desperately in need.

I have the other sizes too...

Ralph
Sup-position
Huntington Beach, California, USA
(714) 899-3020

Sup.position.com@gmail.com

www.Sup-position.com (http://www.Sup-position.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SaltH2Opaddler on September 16, 2012, 06:07:31 AM
Wiki Paddle, X-Tuff and 100%

I have a few for those desperately in need.

I have the other sizes too...

Ralph
Sup-position
Huntington Beach, California, USA
(714) 899-3020

Sup.position.com@gmail.com

www.Sup-position.com (http://www.Sup-position.com)


Thanks Ralph,

I need to demo them with the Xtuf before I purchase.  I am sure other Zoners will be stoked to hear that you have some in-stock.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom English on September 16, 2012, 07:50:32 AM
All sizes, including Wiki is still available for "Try before you buy" at Aloha SUP Shop in Leucadia, CA www.AlohaStandUpPaddle.com (http://www.AlohaStandUpPaddle.com)
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: juandoe on September 16, 2012, 07:59:54 AM
Chuck Patterson was in town this weekend.  He said a lot of them are going shorter on their paddles.  He used to run 86" and is now 82".  He broke some ribs so he didn't paddle.  I wish I could have seen his stroke with a long vs short paddle.  He is a super cool guy.  I left my wiki at 85 and did ok.   Maybe I need to try some short paddle to catch the 2 guys in front of me (one was running about 79" and he is taller than me).
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on September 16, 2012, 10:14:49 AM
Bill, Just to make sure I don't screwup and assemble my paddle with the shaft upside down, which way does the flex go? In other words, how do I tell which is the top and which is the bottom of the shaft?
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Tom on September 16, 2012, 12:15:32 PM
Bill, Just to make sure I don't screwup and assemble my paddle with the shaft upside down, which way does the flex go? In other words, how do I tell which is the top and which is the bottom of the shaft?


I'll answer my own question. The blade and the handle are different sizes and only fit in their respective ends so an idiot like me can't do it wrong. Clever guy that Bill.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Strand Leper on September 16, 2012, 02:34:46 PM
Paddled from San Clemente to my house this morning after the wind blew out my dawn patrol session.  Bobby Roger (Roger Hinds) still has my Wiki blade.  Used the Maliko.  WOW... I missed the Wiki!  I cannot believe that I am saying that. 

Rode Dave Kalama's new DW prototype (the one that he had at Hood River... shhhh don't tell him).  Crazy South wind cross chop... Not an easy paddle.  Super narrow... very reduced rocker... OH MY GOODNESS... was hopping onto the tiniest of bumps.  Very fast on flat water.  The South wind was pushing these micro bumps along the inside island in the harbor... The Imagine Kalama 14er (shaped by Mark) was hopping on each one...

I missed my Wiki... but I had fun on Dave's new toy!  See the classifieds... as I might be making room for this proto after the Imagine boys finish with it.

SL
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 16, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
After you get used to a Wiki it takes time to get used to anything else--especially in a headwind or cross chop. The secret of going back to a bigger blade is... Slow down.

I know it should be obvious, but I actually have to tell myself that over and over. Wikis MAKE you pick up your cadence. Once your cadence is up there, if you switch to a Maliko you'll tire yourself out quickly, switch to a Molokai and you'll kill yourself. Once you slow down they're fine.

And then there's shaft length. I paddled a Molokai with a 79" overall length a few days ago just as an experiment. It felt good, and I was going pretty quickly, but when I opened it up to 81" it was WAY better. the longer shaft suits the slower stroke.

And then there's flex. A xTuf(S)  or xTuf clams a Wiki down a little, I think the flex introduces a little delay, and makes it less nutty (tech term). If you WANT to full steam then the 100Flex makes it fly. Likewise when you switch back to a big blade, the xTuf shafts make it easier on your shoulders, but you'll feel frustrated with the speed--they fell downright lazy. It's easier to transition if you use a 100Flex.

Really starting to see a pattern here with the shaft length, flex and blade size. I don't have enough data runs to have solid results for our test yet, I hope to get some more next week, But what I have so far shows a pretty good correlation of shaft length to blade size. Basically, if you want to go fast with a Wiki, go short.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: swordfish1227 on September 16, 2012, 09:04:09 PM
Is a short wiki going to be better with a 100 or a xTuf(s)? Just wondering which shaft I should shorten as my wiki shaft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 17, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
If you want to calm your Wiki down a bit, use the xTuf, if you're going for max cadence, use the 100Flex.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Cardiff Sweeper on September 18, 2012, 12:36:05 PM
I need a new paddle ASAP! 
Broke my Kialoa Methane.
Would like a Ke Nalu for surfing only.
I'm on Maui. Any local shops sell them?

Obviously about to call a few.

Thanks!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 18, 2012, 01:52:45 PM
Hi Tech on Maui has some, but not the full lineup. Been a while since we've heard from them. Try Blue Planet on Oahu--Robert Stehlick should be able to get you one ASAP and stick it in air freight for overnight delivery.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: viatormundi on September 19, 2012, 05:26:16 PM
Bill,
Are you planning to release a 3 piece adjustable version of your paddles? I need a good paddle which fits in the trunk of the car to use with my inflatable board.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 19, 2012, 06:43:44 PM
Been planning on it for a long time, but actually getting around to it seems like it's taken forever--though really the first paddle we sold was at last year's BOP. We've got a nice design for it, that also converts to an OC paddle, but we need to get our manufacturing issues behind us before we take on a new project.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Takeo on September 19, 2012, 07:11:17 PM
I need a new paddle ASAP! 
Broke my Kialoa Methane.
Would like a Ke Nalu for surfing only.
I'm on Maui. Any local shops sell them?

Obviously about to call a few.

Thanks!

S. Tokunaga Store in Hilo has a few, even the out of stock Wiki and can ship to Maui.  Ask for Mike (owner) or Eric  935-6965.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: blueplanetsurf on September 20, 2012, 01:08:32 AM
Hi Tech on Maui has some, but not the full lineup. Been a while since we've heard from them. Try Blue Planet on Oahu--Robert Stehlick should be able to get you one ASAP and stick it in air freight for overnight delivery.
Yes, we have them in stock and can ship to Maui via UPS next day air for $15.  We will size and assemble it at no charge or can send it in DIY pieces, like Bill  ;)

Call us if you can't find it in Maui.

Blue Planet Surf- Ward
540 Ward Ave.
Honolulu, Hi 96814

Tel. 808 596 7755
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: stoneaxe on September 28, 2012, 08:49:29 PM
Going to check out the Wiki XtufS combo this weekend. Going for a long paddle early Sunday morning.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: mtmilam on September 28, 2012, 08:54:10 PM
I just got my Wiki Blade in...put it on my 100  shaft just now....going to gulf Shores to move the sailboat back to P'cola and will hopefully have some time for a paddle...

Thanks Mike Deeny for getting it to me today!!!!  I really want to try it on the Hobie 14' board, but we are bringing the two ULI's on the sailboat...a little easier to manage :D.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: 1medic on September 28, 2012, 09:31:46 PM
Going to check out the Wiki XtufS combo this weekend. Going for a long paddle early Sunday morning.

Let us know how it was. Also, what is your height and weight?

Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TN_SUP on September 30, 2012, 09:30:21 AM
I love my xtuf and carbon wikis, but still am a hair faster with my Werner Nitro bent shaft. I don't particularly care for the large diameter shaft or the weight of the Nitro, so I'm thinking of buying the $500 grand prix (ouch) or just trying the Maliko blade, as it may be the extra 15 square inches of the nitro giving me a boost. Anyone have similar experience? I'm flatwater only with tender shoulders and realize that it may be just bad form on my part.
Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerLEO on September 30, 2012, 11:27:11 AM
used my Molokai with xtuff shaft yesterday at our hulakai race to fitness it was awesome MAJOR CATCH but I couldn't get rid of that clicking sound felt like my shaft had some play even though I put more glue but still worked like a charm shoulders feel GREAT. put my maliko xtuf blade avg on and no more clicking now I can go surf. I got 1st in 12'6 stock ages 17-39.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bbqSUPer on September 30, 2012, 02:03:51 PM
New to the forum and proud owner of a new Maliko with 100 shaft as of last week.  First paddle with it was Friday.  Trying to get a short session in on the river.  Just a bad session over all (tired from work and rushed to get a session in before leaving town to  Sat.) and had the length a little to long.  Cut it down another inch today and went out for an 8 mile paddle.

Feel like I got the length dialed in much better.  Some over all impressions and observations.  Please keep in mind that I'm a still a noob and this is my first paddle at this level and price point.

1.  Forces you to have good technique. 

Previously I was using a Werner Fiji adjustable.  Which at the price, I feel is a great paddle.  My initial reaction on my first strokes was WTF? Blade was wandering all over the place.  I thought I had been doing pretty well before.  Today I did a nice long run and really focused on three phases of my stroke.  It became apparent, that when I really had a nice solid plant, trying to be as quiet as possible, and  proper technique through the power phase, the paddle tracked straight as an arrow.

With all of that straightened out, it seem like I could really engage my core muscles more.  As a matter fact, I had my first cramp, and it was in the abs.  Some of it had do with not being as hydrated as I usually am, and the fact that I have more of a case then a 6 pack.  Obviously I was using them more.

2. I'm thinking the carbon shaft applied more of my power.  Compared to the Fiji which is fiberglass, I could keep my speed up with what seemed like less energy.  I had Motion-X running on my iphone and when I was slowing the pace catch a breather I was keeping the same speed I was before on the Fiji when I was applying more energy.  At least that is what my phone told me.

3. The damn thing is light.  I know, you guys with carbon paddles already know this, but holy cow, it was like I wasn't even holding anything.

4. I ordered a factory second (cosmetic flaws) blade.  As a household of school teachers, we don't have a lot of expendable cash.  I ordered the factory second Maliko blade.  I was fully expecting to see a scratch, or the logo might be messed up or something.  I figured I would do that my first session anyway.  When I opened it up and looked, I was hard pressed to find anything.  I have no idea why this thing was marked second.

I'm entering my first race at the end of October.  Completely stoked and can't wait.  Plus I've lost 11 pounds.  I saw some beach photos of myself from this summer and I almost threw up in my mouth.


Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 30, 2012, 06:50:37 PM
BBQ, glad you like the paddle. the reason it's wandering is not your stroke, it's that you are holding it too tight. Most paddles wander, and you get used to holding them tight to keep that from happening, Ke Nalus don't. Open your bottom hand so you're just holding the shaft with your fingertips, I guarantee it won't wobble.

the factory seconds are actually very nice blades. We don't normally clearcoat our blades--they are supposed to be perfect when they come out of the mold. If they are not, they are sanded and clearcoated (which is how most paddles are made) and they look great. In fact they often look better than firsts--but they're seconds to us. I use nothing but seconds myself.

Title: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: PonoBill on September 30, 2012, 06:55:07 PM
used my Molokai with xtuff shaft yesterday at our hulakai race to fitness it was awesome MAJOR CATCH but I couldn't get rid of that clicking sound felt like my shaft had some play even though I put more glue but still worked like a charm shoulders feel GREAT. put my maliko xtuf blade avg on and no more clicking now I can go surf. I got 1st in 12'6 stock ages 17-39.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

The click is probably a little gap between the upper edge of the ferrule and the shaft. My favorite Maliko makes what I assume is the same sound. I've gotten used to it and treat it like a cadence count. Doesn't hurt anything but I realize it might be irritation. Next time you put it together put a ring of glue around the bottom of the ferrule. It might eliminate it. Or decide it's a feature and use it to keep your cadence up.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: SUPerLEO on September 30, 2012, 07:02:26 PM
used my Molokai with xtuff shaft yesterday at our hulakai race to fitness it was awesome MAJOR CATCH but I couldn't get rid of that clicking sound felt like my shaft had some play even though I put more glue but still worked like a charm shoulders feel GREAT. put my maliko xtuf blade avg on and no more clicking now I can go surf. I got 1st in 12'6 stock ages 17-39.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

The click is probably a little gap between the upper edge of the ferrule and the shaft. My favorite Maliko makes what I assume is the same sound. I've gotten used to it and treat it like a cadence count. Doesn't hurt anything but I realize it might be irritation. Next time you put it together put a ring of glue around the bottom of the ferrule. It might eliminate it. Or decide it's a feature and use it to keep your cadence up.
I actually did use it as a way to keep my cadence up

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: bbqSUPer on October 01, 2012, 03:32:48 AM
Thanks Bill, I did realize that the smaller shaft seamed conducive to using a relaxed grip with fingers.  Worked much better.
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: TEX_SUP on October 01, 2012, 01:20:33 PM
are the xTuf Wiki's back in stock yet?

Thanks
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Naishguy on October 01, 2012, 01:25:07 PM
loved my xtuf so much i just bought a elite! great paddles!! and bags!
Title: Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
Post by: Scottiver on October 02, 2012, 02:16:12 AM
So I have a Maliko with x tuff s and would maybe like to get a Wiki blade to try out because for me I prefer a higher cadence than I can achieve with the Maliko.
Now my question is, is the Wiki blade the same length as the Maliko so that when I mount it to my cu