Author Topic: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]  (Read 72473 times)

southwesterly

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1050 on: March 20, 2017, 09:21:19 PM »
Whatís the difference between a garbanzo bean and a chickpea you ask?

Trump has never had a garbanzo bean on his face.

Badda boom...

pdxmike

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1051 on: March 20, 2017, 10:33:54 PM »
Whatís the difference between a garbanzo bean and a chickpea you ask?

Trump has never had a garbanzo bean on his face.

Badda boom...
You get the Number One Joke award.

Chilly

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1052 on: March 21, 2017, 04:30:02 AM »

Careful, there's a lot of BS out there. Question everything. 
Why?

PDX, It’s because it pisses me off when I see people being played by believing what they read or listen to in social media or political talk shows as fact without any critical thinking being put into it. It’s become an epidemic and it’s hurting this country. 

WW, If it was a joke, as PB said it was poorly posted.

That's funny on so many levels.
**joke** Why? **/joke**

Dude, I knew you were being sarcastic, especially coming from you. I just wanted to vent. I find paying too much for a pen very offensive.
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tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1053 on: March 21, 2017, 05:27:56 AM »


As the world turns, Tillerson is reportedly snubbing NATO by prioritizing with the Chinese at Mar El Lago.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16S04I

Now consider some of the stuff that came out in the Comey hearing: "The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia's invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fair share.".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/20/full-transcript-fbi-director-james-comey-testifies-on-russian-interference-in-2016-election/?utm_term=.3fbc40ff8d9c

Put that together with Turmps latest statements about how Germany somehow owes money to NATO?
It seems like Trump can be trusted to uphold his end of the deals after all...at least by Russia.



stoneaxe

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PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1055 on: March 21, 2017, 07:18:05 AM »
Interesting article and a useful analysis--that the democrats won't pay attention to because it doesn't connect to our worldview. The only part I disagree with is that President Clinton sold us out to the Chinese for some high-minded reason. He did it for money.

I also liked the article linked at the bottom of the page titled "Please Don't Thank Us For Our Service". A sentiment I agree with. I see people proposing all kinds of special benefits for veterans (beyond what we already get) and realize that people have no idea what its like to serve in the military, and no concept of why people choose to do it.
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Bean

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1056 on: March 21, 2017, 07:41:39 AM »
One of our local food stores has a special parking space for PH recipients, cleanest most unused parking space in the place.

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1057 on: March 21, 2017, 03:10:46 PM »


As the world turns, Tillerson is reportedly snubbing NATO by prioritizing with the Chinese at Mar El Lago.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16S04I

Now consider some of the stuff that came out in the Comey hearing: "The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia's invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fair share.".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/20/full-transcript-fbi-director-james-comey-testifies-on-russian-interference-in-2016-election/?utm_term=.3fbc40ff8d9c

Put that together with Turmps latest statements about how Germany somehow owes money to NATO?
It seems like Trump can be trusted to uphold his end of the deals after all...at least by Russia.

Here's why I keep feeling like I'm defending a President I despise. Twisting the priority of getting China to lean on Korea vs. a NATO meeting is pretty screwed. Nuts with nukes vs. Nato meeting. Which would you say is more of an immediate priority?

And I don't see how anyone can debate that the USA spends a disproportionate amount on NATO. The budget per member is supposed to be 2 percent of GDP. Only the United States, the United Kingdom, Greece, Estonia and Poland contribute that much. So yeah, France, Italy and Germany have underpaid for decades. Nobody bitched when Bernie Sanders made that point--in fact most people cheered, even though the numbers he used we not really defensible. Depending on how you do the math, the US provides between 22 and 75 percent of the cost of NATO, with real numbers being probably more than half but not three quarters. If you look at the cost of increasing operations and boots on the ground since the Ukraine situation (about $900 million), it's a bit more. It's inarguable that NATO is as important to European nations as the US (probably a lot more important). Seems like they should pay their share and/or do their share.

Is it brinksmanship to demand that the other members meet their obligations? By whom?

I don't know what kind of footsie Trump has been playing with Putin. And we're not likely to know with all this bullshit being spread. Did you actually READ the transcript of the hearing, Tautologies? I couldn't find the quote you gave--there's nothing like that in Comey's testimony that I could find. You're implying there's a smoking gun. More like a pissing match of allegations between Nunes and Schiff.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 03:31:57 PM by PonoBill »
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yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1058 on: March 21, 2017, 04:19:50 PM »
Ö
Here's why I keep feeling like I'm defending a President I despise. Twisting the priority of getting China to lean on Korea vs. a NATO meeting is pretty screwed. Nuts with nukes vs. Nato meeting. Which would you say is more of an immediate priority?
Ö

Youíre perfectly right but I suggest you actually read the Reuters piece. Thereís a bit more nuance and the article says it better than I can.

How do I know you didnít read the article yet?:
ďthe alliance offered to change the meeting dates so Tillerson could attend it and the Xi Jinping talks but the State Department had rebuffed the idea. Ē


Ö
And I don't see how anyone can debate that the USA spends a disproportionate amount on NATO. The budget per member is supposed to be 2 percent of GDP.
Ö
Is it brinksmanship to demand that the other members meet their obligations? By whom?
Ö

Youíre perfectly right again but this time you should read the news.

Read up on what Trump asked of Germany [I think right AFTER Merkel left] regarding paying. It appears Trump claims Germany owes the US and Nato Ďvast sums of moneyí to make up for things over the years. Apparently thatís not part of the agreement. As much as you are right that states should reach agreed levels Trump asking for things that arenít part of the agreement also pisses them off.

Itís an alliance. It is in allís interest they get along and face the real enemy. Does look like footsie w Putin.

Ö
I don't know what kind of footsie Trump has been playing with Putin. And we're not likely to know with all this bullshit being spread. Did you actually READ the transcript of the hearing, Tautologies? I couldn't find the quote you gave--there's nothing like that in Comey's testimony that I could find. You're implying there's a smoking gun. More like a pissing match of allegations between Nunes and Schiff.

Yeah I was scanning for that quote too and itís a bit long so I just did a search in the article and found it quickly. Itís there and pertinent.



stoneaxe

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1059 on: March 21, 2017, 04:25:31 PM »
Bro....it's called pissing into the wind.....simply not worth it.
Bob

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PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1060 on: March 21, 2017, 04:38:21 PM »

Youíre perfectly right but I suggest you actually read the Reuters piece. Thereís a bit more nuance and the article says it better than I can.

How do I know you didnít read the article yet?:
ďthe alliance offered to change the meeting dates so Tillerson could attend it and the Xi Jinping talks but the State Department had rebuffed the idea. Ē

Yeah I was scanning for that quote too and itís a bit long so I just did a search in the article and found it quickly. Itís there and pertinent.

I read the article--despite it being a chopped up piece of shit aiming to add inference to fact every other paragraph. WTF is going on with Reuters?? You're quoting the anonymous source at the end. Get real.


Went back and found the quote in the Comey hearing--it's a quote from Schiff. That's your idea of pertinent? Why didn't you mention who it quoted? did you think I wouldn't look?

Seriously, this is nonsense. there's plenty of real stuff to criticize and worry about. Quit with the bullshit.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 04:44:31 PM by PonoBill »
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yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1061 on: March 21, 2017, 05:28:17 PM »
Sorry. I wasnít paying attention to who was quoted. I missed your point on nunes and shiff. Iím not really clued in on the whole partisan in-fighting. Iím only looking at world level. I do find it interesting how several things from that Steele report seem to be panning out.

lucabrasi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1062 on: March 21, 2017, 06:10:27 PM »
......... Iím not really clued in on the whole partisan in-fighting. Iím only looking at world level......
Dude, that's what so much of this is about in the end and what makes it so hard to sift through and yes, it is hard to pick apart the bs and not come off as if you are defending him. Not sure what to say about "world level" coverage but the stuff I have seen posted here has been very much of the same flavor we have to sift through. The more "nuance" there is in something shoots up a warning flag and makes it a bs alert and harder to swallow as truth at least in my mind.
I wonder the little Biden clip I posted if he is sincere or they are just biding their time and waiting for a meltdown. I kind of think he is sincere but I may just be naÔve.
Can someone take that stupid ass twitter away from him? He really is not doing himself any favors trying to sidestep anything with it at least from what I can see. He seems to be just stepping on mines he has set himself.
Were Comey and him really going back and forth live yesterday? Twitter post, question to Comey about it, answer from Comey, all in real time?
Oh my word.
    actually picking through the bs really doesn't have to come off as one is defending him. it is so bad and full of it that it needs to be picked apart regardless of what you think of him or not.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:22:12 PM by lucabrasi »

tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1063 on: March 21, 2017, 06:44:38 PM »

Here's why I keep feeling like I'm defending a President I despise. Twisting the priority of getting China to lean on Korea vs. a NATO meeting is pretty screwed. Nuts with nukes vs. Nato meeting. Which would you say is more of an immediate priority?

And I don't see how anyone can debate that the USA spends a disproportionate amount on NATO. The budget per member is supposed to be 2 percent of GDP. Only the United States, the United Kingdom, Greece, Estonia and Poland contribute that much. So yeah, France, Italy and Germany have underpaid for de cades. Nobody bitched when Bernie Sanders made that point--in fact most people cheered, even though the numbers he used we not really defensible. Depending on how you do the math, the US provides between 22 and 75 percent of the cost of NATO, with real numbers being probably more than half but not three quarters. If you look at the cost of increasing operations and boots on the ground since the Ukraine situation (about $900 million), it's a bit more. It's inarguable that NATO is as important to European nations as the US (probably a lot more important). Seems like they should pay their share and/or do their share.

Is it brinksmanship to demand that the other members meet their obligations? By whom?

I don't know what kind of footsie Trump has been playing with Putin. And we're not likely to know with all this bullshit being spread.
First up, the quote was from the the piece. I have read it.

I don't think you are defending Trump. Its perfectly fine to have a nuanced view enough to evaluate on other criteria than it being a defense of the president or presidency.
Now, I do not think it is at all disputed by NATO nations or anyone else that the US is contributing more. Countries that are spending below the 2% has mostly said they will try to meet the obligations, but no-one owes NATO money that is just a matter of provable fact. Saying anything else just weakens the alliance, and increases the risk of countries (Russia) that aren't liking how NATO successfully has been a stabilizing factor in the west.

Now when that is said taking each action one by one...some of them might not be serious...but you really cannot because there are blatant behavioral patterns. I do not think you can at all discount that context and the fact that it follows reports and warnings produced well ahead of time. There are just too many indicators that are pointing in the same exact direction to make it any other than extremely worrisome.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:46:49 PM by tautologies »

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1064 on: March 21, 2017, 07:12:12 PM »
My point exactly Taut--there are plenty of indications, and plenty of threads to follow, but offering a link to the Comey hearing and proferring a quote--unattributed--that turns out to be from a democrat axeman is pure manipulation. You want to make a case, make the case, but persuing the same course as the media, of trying to manipulate the stupid and the lazy is bullshit, and you know it. Germany needs to TRY to meet their obligations? France has to TRY to meet their obligations. Really, sell that somewhere else.

And that Reuters article is hideous.

You want to talk about this stuff on a rational plane, I'm interested, if you just want to convince and you don't care how you do it, then go the fuck ahead. But I won't bother with you anymore.

Yugi, thanks for the apology, I expected better from you and I was surprised not to see it.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 07:15:47 PM by PonoBill »
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