Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016

[Larry Allison]

"The trick to understand this fin is: If Mother Nature is pushing you from behind and little Paddle engagement is needed to maintain glide then the Aercor Fin is Magic. If you need to Paddle more to maintain glide then the JR Dolphin or Moray is the fin of choice."

It seems the general theme has been stability at the base with release at the tip except for the Aercor.   Larry what dimension do you have for the trailing edge for that yellow Stealth?  In your earlier pic it looks like 7" and the blue JT 9" - but not all the way to the bottom.  The SIC 7.0 is around 7-3/4" measured perpendicular all the way to the bottom as shown.  So the area of the 7.0 looks to be less than both the Stealth and JR Dolphin.

The Moray seems to be better for less wind -> and Aercor better for more wind.  How does the Fat Boy (squirrel) fin solution play into the DW equation from your perspective?

Both Fins Fatboy and Squirrel fins are surf related fins that work pretty good in a Fiber Glass Structure for flex. Honeycomb Structure of these fins would suck and act like a anchor.

Both of these fins are noseriding type designs where the board has alot of tail rocker and a smaller base allows you to turn quickly
with the large tip that acts great for hold so your board does not slide down the face of the wave when you step forward on your board to generate speed. Then when you are going into a turn the larger tip will flex slightly depending on how thin the foil is, when coming out of the turn the memory in the fiber glass structure will recoil back causing this type of fin to excelerate or snap out of the turn. I know from riding this style of fin from Harbour.

In a Standup World in mild conditions both these fins would aid in stability but as the conditions got stronger these fins would be ok but the depth would always be a negative to makeup for the narrow base line. So you would loose glide speed over shorter fins with larger baseline (Bottom End). So in answer to your question I would never use these 2 fins when their are better choices at my finger tips.

[Larry Allison]

Larry - I shouldn't think many people are using cutaway fins like that for downwinding: they work best in a 2+1 setup and all production DW boards that I know of are single fins. Although, I was actually considering ordering a custom DW board with a modified 2+1 setup, but that's another story...

The fins that work surprisingly well for DW in festive conditions are in my opinion those with a narrow base and a bulb at the tip, like the True Ames Squirrel cutaway and the FCS Fat Boy. I'm sure the design could be improved upon for SUP though, so it would be great to see what you and your testers could come up with on that general theme. I'm sure you wouldn't have trouble finding prototype testers on the zone here (including me!).

Area10, Do you know a guy Bryce Dyer n the UK. I will be sending some Probox Twins his way and can add a Aercore fin to save you some shipping costs. Let me know if you are interested my friend. Send me a PM. Mahalo

[Larry Allison]

…
Anyone that wants to turn on a DW needs to get a 7.0 fin.  It saved me yesterday from a stall and broach because of its small size - yet gave me just enough directional stability.  In the breezy side wind yesterday - I was going full power left but the board was mostly wanting to still go right.  Not good if it is blowing you away from land.  Did get the board to plane a bit so that was worth it.   

I concur with Eagle on the smaller fin.

A10,
recently you recommended a bigger fin for bigger conditions. What was with that? I’m in Eagles camp.
 
DK,
You got some fins to fiddle with the Rail26? Let us know what works for you. You are the turn master so I’d love to hear what you think.

For the last 4 years I have been using the Aercor from Larry Allison and Jeremy Riggs. It works great in all conditions, no drag at all and makes the board super loose on the bumps. Everyone who tries it says the best.

Thank you DK78 for the support and most importantly I am Happy you are Enjoying the Ride with the Aercor. Mahalo

[burchas]

Now I thought to share a peek at a new design I created at 7 1/2" deep for strong Downwind conditions made in a Fiber Glass Structure only because flex is super important in this outline and only one size. Because going larger in size makes this fin tip prominent and works against you and causes you to work against the fin and the water conditions, not a good situation to deal with.

Larry, what do you call this new fin? Some specs maybe? From what I can see it looks like something
I can really work with here on the river. Good base and hold to fight those nasty surface currents.

The Dolphin JR serves me very well in most cases but it has its limits, especially on my  24" board in winter conditions.

What do you think?

[coldsup]

Those last few posts were very interesting Larry.....thanks for putting them up. The Moray fin would b great on my M14 I think. I've been using a Futures Californian to date.....it seems a good allrounder but wish it had a little more stability like the big Jimmy L Tracker fin...that's a beast.

[yugi]

I’d rather learn better balance and paddling skills so as not to not to need to rely on the fin and have a board which turns easier. I’ll take all the help I can get to eek more turning out of a board and deal with my own stability and tracking. Both quickly learned if you put yourself to task. I always pick my equipment to help me with the hardest part.

Seems to me there’s a basic tradeoff.

Larry,
I love click-ins. I’m a bit worried to use one on a DW however, just as an extra safety precaution. On a DW one would be so screwed if one lost a fin. Your thoughts/experience from customers? Are you still making classic versions or is everything click-in?

Any plans for a kind of “safety latch” with the click-ins? (for classic US box) Or something we can add to lock it? Specifically for the Aercor.

[Luc Benac]

I do have/had quite a few fins which can be used for downwind.

Larry Allison
Aercor (for well formed swell and strong wind - difficult to bit that design)
Dolphin Pivot Jr. 47sqi
Dolphin Pivot 56 sqi (would not downwind this guy as it is too big)
Ninja (great fin to downwind a board with a lot of tail rocker)

I plan to use the Pivot and the Aercor this summer (when our inflows are back) with the Blackfish(es) and also put the ventral in the equation out of curiosity.
i.e. using the ventral to gain tracking in between the bumps with an Aercor
Also staying tuned for Larry's new fin design coming in the spring I believe.


VMG Mako 37 and 44
I do like these fins for boards with a pin tail and limited tail rocker (like a Bark Downwinder) or "round" bottoms and fin box far forward(like a fanatic falcon)
The 37 is good for down-winding, the 44 is good for marginal conditions and often feels a little bit big for down-winding


FCS
Connect Dolphin  9" and 10"(following DJ)
Fat Boy 10"(following Area10)
I will use these guys next summer with my Riviera DW. The board has a lot of rocker everywhere:



For me as a beginner, it is always a balance between a small fin that is unobtrusive when things are going and provide a smooth and fast ride and a larger/deeper fin that provide a better hold when things are not going, are more marginal and require more paddling. A 9" dolphin might be a middle of the road fin for the Riviera or the Fat Boy might be a revelation.

[Larry Allison]

I’d rather learn better balance and paddling skills so as not to not to need to rely on the fin and have a board which turns easier. I’ll take all the help I can get to eek more turning out of a board and deal with my own stability and tracking. Both quickly learned if you put yourself to task. I always pick my equipment to help me with the hardest part.

Seems to me there’s a basic tradeoff.

Larry,
I love click-ins. I’m a bit worried to use one on a DW however, just as an extra safety precaution. On a DW one would be so screwed if one lost a fin. Your thoughts/experience from customers? Are you still making classic versions or is everything click-in?

Any plans for a kind of “safety latch” with the click-ins? (for classic US box) Or something we can add to lock it? Specifically for the Aercor.

Yugi, Glad you asked about a Safety Feature. Yes my Click In Fins come with that option upon request. Came out with this feature almost a year ago. Especially for Inflatable Boards where the Fin Box walls flex because the fin box is on top of the surface this feature is a must. Click here for the video explaining that.


Interesting comment about working harder to ride a unstable board. Working harder due to stability also means you sacrifice speed, which means in a downwind situation you sacrifice maintaining the glide. I think you can spend energy working harder to improve technique then working harder to stay on top of your board. Just a thought my friend!

I offer screw and plate or Click It for Fiber Glas Fins, special structured fins are Click It only with safety feature option upon request.
a.) 

b.)

c.)

[yugi]

^ Awesome. Extra peace of mind. I'd seen the solution for Red Paddle.

I assume Aercore is available with this safety pin?

Re. Stability. Yes, of course, within reasonable limits of comfort.

thanks, nice !

[Larry Allison]

Now I thought to share a peek at a new design I created at 7 1/2" deep for strong Downwind conditions made in a Fiber Glass Structure only because flex is super important in this outline and only one size. Because going larger in size makes this fin tip prominent and works against you and causes you to work against the fin and the water conditions, not a good situation to deal with.

Larry, what do you call this new fin? Some specs maybe? From what I can see it looks like something
I can really work with here on the river. Good base and hold to fight those nasty surface currents.

The Dolphin JR serves me very well in most cases but it has its limits, especially on my  24" board in winter conditions.

What do you think?

Burchas, I call the new fin "Spartan" Here is a review from Joel Yang in the Northwest Testing it out.

November 29, 2016 Review Quote by Joel Yang. ·
 
A short while back, I had the chance to chat with Reid @standuppaddlemagazine
About this prototype that uncle @lafins made. From the spy pics to the conversations I was very intrigued.

Lord Viento finally decided to give us a short burst of wind during this eerily tranquil wind drought here and I had the privilege of demoing this prototype with my friend Bernie.

On the left is my all time favorite downwind fin. The Larry Allison GT Moray. It just works right in DW conditions for me. On the right is the new Proto.

The new Proto fin doesn't look faster, nor does it scream high performance. Since I'm a total geargeek, I'll demo everything.

It's amazing how you can look at something and believe you understand it and know what it'll do and you're wrong. I love it when this happens.

The fin handled amazing. There was something very different about the way it made my board handle... I was able to catch mushy bumps and connect them... This included wallbump, and cross chop.... Those of you that know me, know that I'm far from graceful abd have a bit of this bulldozer style so I'm not light on my feet, so having those sprocking cat like ninja skills isn't on my resume. Many times when I typically stall out due to not being at the right sweet spot when I get hit with side mash, I often brace, wait till it passes, then resume. This time round I was very pleasantly surprised... I was able to brace out, counter balance, and keep going.....and keep connecting in mushy conditions.......

Thank you Lord Viento for turning it on so that I could get this little window of falling back in love with downwinding again. Thank you Reid for getting me all fired up on this not so fast looking proto. Thank you uncle Larry for the privilege to constantly demo new fingeekness. Whacky looking fin.....I can't wait till it fires up again so we can go out and have more awesome experiences together.

[Larry Allison]

Now I thought to share a peek at a new design I created at 7 1/2" deep for strong Downwind conditions made in a Fiber Glass Structure only because flex is super important in this outline and only one size. Because going larger in size makes this fin tip prominent and works against you and causes you to work against the fin and the water conditions, not a good situation to deal with.

Larry, what do you call this new fin? Some specs maybe? From what I can see it looks like something
I can really work with here on the river. Good base and hold to fight those nasty surface currents.

The Dolphin JR serves me very well in most cases but it has its limits, especially on my  24" board in winter conditions.

What do you think?

Burchas, Here is another review by Reid Inouye of Standup Paddle Magazine riding the Allison "Spartan" fin in Hawaiian waters.
Reid is the rider on the smaller board behind Eric on the bigger board.

Reid Inouye comment:
Finally got to take this 12'6" Indigo-SUP.com Tiger out on a quick run. 12'6"x28x6"x24lbs. Combined with this Larry W. Allison fin that arrived just before I headed down to the beach, I have to say, even though the winds dropped to 20-25mph, this set up was hauling ass. Took a full inside line right outside the surf and I got some really good dot connectors with ease. Liked the way this board hopped the little 2' bumps and connections and I was surprised on the feel of the fin. In fact I've never ridden a fin as foiled and clean as this one. No fat bead on the front edge and really thin as compared to most fins on the market today. Thanks again Raul Ruiz, Delfos Almagro at Indigo and fin-legend Larry W. Allison for the insane foiled fin. Keep sending more boards and fins. hahaha.

Below, Is a pic of Reid's board and Spartan Fin used to do the Downwind run in Hawaii the top pic.

[burchas]

Thanks Larry, I'm all over this. Care to share some specs and what's the concept behind the fin?
I really do like my Dolphin JR but I can see where something like the Spartan can come handy.

[Larry Allison]

Thanks Larry, I'm all over this. Care to share some specs and what's the concept behind the fin?
I really do like my Dolphin JR but I can see where something like the Spartan can come handy.

The Spartan concept came in my mind the same way I created the Gladiator Fin in 2011 for the guy in Texas. I was watching TV and seen a commercial about the Movie Spartan and the helmet stuck in my mind. So I took the common size in depth that I know what works and added my rake of choice then started the transformation. The one thing here is this only works in Fiber Glass Structure where twist off flex is KEY to Performance, I learned and confirmed this with my fall out of the Gladiator Brand guy who took the Gladiator Fin concept overseas and changes the Structure from Fiber Glass to Carbon/ Honeycomb. 

[Luc Benac]

Thanks Larry, I'm all over this. Care to share some specs and what's the concept behind the fin?
I really do like my Dolphin JR but I can see where something like the Spartan can come handy.

I would love to hear this.
Also when will the fin be available.

[Larry Allison]

The Spartan Fin on the left is a Sup Specific. The Spartan Fin on the right is a Longboard Surf Specific Fin not intended to be used on a Sup Board.