Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil

[Area 10]

SUP foiling might be huge fun and an enormous buzz, but I can't see anyway that you are going to make it even modestly safe, at least with foils like typically used on kite boards, no matter how long the board is. Holding the paddle while all this happens adds another dimension of trouble too.

Area 10  Seems like you are pretty anti-foil, why so against a product that isn't even out yet?

Not particularly. Just not drinking the Kool-Aid quite yet.

I could just as easily ask why you are so pro-foil, when the product isn't even out yet.

The cynic in me wonders if because SUP sales have started to plateau, those clever marketing guys will be looking for the next way to part us from our money. Convincing everyone that a foil is an essential part of any SUP quiver might be one way to achieve that. And if they can sell us loads of safety gear as well then that is a bonus.

But as I say, maybe I'm just being cynical. I'd love to have a go for sure. But I think I'd want to try it in waves before trying it downwind.

[mrbig]

Buy now before the price increase. SURF FX 5500 Aussie dollars for the Baish er Naish!

Helmet and protective hockey gear extra! Early adopters - opportunity of a lifetime!

[PonoBill]

That wouldn't be clever marketing, it would be wandering off to the next bright thing. Oh look, a butterfly. There's probably a few hundred people who'd be interested in something like this. By comparison the new Hobie foot pedal thingy has a monster waiting list. I went to the local Kayak shop to order one and they offered to put me on their waiting list with a 20 percent deposit. As I recall there were ten people in front of me and they hadn't recieved their first unit, so I didn't do it. That was a week ago. I was down at the event center talking about it with some folks who want to get one, and they said "Oh, we wish we had got on the list when it was only ten."

[clay]

I understand being wary of marketing BS.  I have yet to ride a Naish or Starboard that I like, if the only way to get a foil was through those brands I'd be cynical also.

Why am I pro gofoil?

I have seen multiple videos of multiple riders getting glides the likes of which I have never seen before.  I suspect it would cost a fortune to fake those videos.  I saw a couple rides that blew my mind, and I don't care how hard or dangerous learning to downwind foil is, I'm sold.

[Area 10]

Why am I pro gofoil?

I have seen multiple videos of multiple riders getting glides the likes of which I have never seen before.  I suspect it would cost a fortune to fake those videos.  I saw a couple rides that blew my mind, and I don't care how hard or dangerous learning to downwind foil is, I'm sold.

Well, there ya go then: I haven't seen any videos that impress me much yet, and my mind is far from blown by what I have seen, and I DO care how hard and dangerous learning to downwind foil is. So I'm NOT sold. In fact, I when watching those SUP foil vids I start to hear Shania Twain singing gently in my head... "so you're a SUP foiler? That don't impress me much..."

https://youtu.be/mqFLXayD6e8

That's the great thing about these forums. You get wildly differing viewpoints about just about anything!

[pdxmike]

That's the great thing about these forums. You get wildly differing viewpoints about just about anything!

You are totally wrong about that.

[PonoBill]

I understand being wary of marketing BS.  I have yet to ride a Naish or Starboard that I like, if the only way to get a foil was through those brands I'd be cynical also.

Why am I pro gofoil?

I have seen multiple videos of multiple riders getting glides the likes of which I have never seen before.  I suspect it would cost a fortune to fake those videos.  I saw a couple rides that blew my mind, and I don't care how hard or dangerous learning to downwind foil is, I'm sold.

I don't think it's marketing at all nor is it faked. I saw some extremely good SUP paddlers with foils that might not be the best possible design for SUP downwind attached to their board. They were able to get clips that show them catching glides and doing downwinders in a way that I absolutely lust after. Absolutely LUST. Of course those same two guys can do things on a SUP that I could never replicate even if I were magically transformed to twenty years old after having grown up on Maui with a paddle in my hand. So there's that. And the clips are really short. Suspiciously short. Neither shows recovery from a banked turn--all they show is the beginning of one. Anyone that has foiled can probably jump in here and confirm what happens when you roll past the recovery angle of your dihedral (or anhedral).

If the two best SUP paddlers on Maui aren't doing a carefree Maliko run, zooming around and catching energy in all kinds of conditions, then how well is this going to work for me? I can tell you right now, if it's not easier than doing a Maliko on a 17' Bullet V1, then it ain't gonna do me a bit of good, because that's about the best I can do. Some days it's a little more than I can manage.

I need to see Bubba the newbie on a foiled downwinder having a great time. Kai and Connor do shit every day that I can't manage.

[clay]

I'm all for different viewpoints, I respect and appreciate everyone's experience. 

I understand these foil videos have been edited to show the highlights and omit the lowlights.  Seeing Kai SUP at jaws or Mo on any wave is impressive and at the same time I know I can't paddle those incredibly small boards.  I can however paddle just about any 10 foot downwind board.

What rubs me the wrong way is seeing someone's passion and years of trail and error be pissed on and hated on.  It takes a lot of courage to keep at something new and different and unpopular, and then at the first sign of success the negative Nancy's come along and beat the crap out of it.

I grew up with complainers and haters and I didn't feel safe bringing my ideas to that crowd, so I had to squash my passions or keep them secret for years until I found a safe place to be myself and be the early adopter.

How about if we don't have anything nice to say we don't say anything at all?

https://youtu.be/Qw3Z8Oa7E3Y

[Area 10]

How about if we don't have anything nice to say we don't say anything at all?

Well, that statement really is ironic
http://youtu.be/Jne9t8sHpUc

[Beasho]

I grew up with complainers and haters and I didn't feel safe bringing my ideas to that crowd, so I had to squash my passions or keep them secret for years until I found a safe place to be myself and be the early adopter.

Clay - This is Ironic coming from you.  When I mentioned your name to Stretch he said "Have you seen Clay?"  I had to admit "No I have never met the guy." 

To which he said:

"That guy (Clay) is like 6' 8"."  I am not sure why you would back down from anything?  But it does explains the retort you gave the guy at Fort Point 

When I was a kid I would constantly get "Why do you even wonder about that?"  Now I live on the coast of California BECAUSE I WONDERED and they live in small mud shacks in upstate NY. 

[cnski]

 Pretty cool video if you have a few minutes:

Kite vs. Moth vs. Nacra F20 FCS vs. Marstrom 32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfBumbfPpnM

[starman]

Clay, you need to take a deep breath and relax. Comments made on this forum are not going to make or break anyone's idea including the SUP foil.

But as far as being a "hater" you may want to follow your own good advise. For example;

What rubs me the wrong way is seeing someone's passion and years of trail and error be pissed on and hated on.  It takes a lot of courage to keep at something new and different and unpopular, and then at the first sign of success the negative Nancy's come along and beat the crap out of it.

But before posting that you say;

I understand being wary of marketing BS.  I have yet to ride a Naish or Starboard that I like, if the only way to get a foil was through those brands I'd be cynical also.

So it's ok to take a swing at Naish and Starboard but not ok to be critical of what you like. Do I have that right? My guess it's not. Anyway, if the light bulb in your head went off when you saw the foil videos then you should follow where your passion takes you. You don't need to defend it. I say go foil and keep us posted on what you find.

[Eagle]

What rubs me the wrong way is seeing someone's passion and years of trail and error be pissed on and hated on.  It takes a lot of courage to keep at something new and different and unpopular, and then at the first sign of success the negative Nancy's come along and beat the crap out of it.

It seems others were not pissing on or hating on or beating the crap out of it - but simply posting their views comments and concerns on the subject.  Some concerns do seem valid.

The thing with a SUP foil is inconsistent wind conditions.  Kiting sailing and windsurf foiling are different animals since the sail area generates a huge amount of force - easily controlled by the user.  So in relatively light air they generate a lot of power and speed easily.

With SUP foiling all you have is the person and blade - as the sail power.  As well you cannot spill any wind in a gust - or power up with a simple tug.  Balancing is much less problematic as well with constant heel angles and force.  SUP requires a lot of balancing and pumping in low wind -> plus powering up the blade to generate speed.  A lot is going on to get that foil flying.  In perfect conditions it looks really nice and fun.  But still - huge amounts of skill and balance look to be required.

So will be very interesting to see if a good recreational SUP paddler can get that foil flying consistently over a DW run.  Most of us average joe's unfortunately cannot stand on our head - or spin around on a board - on a windy DW run like Connor can.  Pros like that are truly alien.  But for sure - if that is your passion - just get one and do your thing.  Over time would expect the foil tech to improve.   

[PonoBill]

Clay, if that's within your definition of being hated on, then you've either been oversensitized by your prior environment, or you're a pretty sensitive dude. Expressing varied opinions is the only way to have a useful conversation. There's nothing more boring than someone who agrees with everything I say. Fortunately that's vanishingly rare.

[cnski]

Learning to foil isn't really that hard. It's like learning any other sport.  If you can do downwinders or are a descent SUSer you can foil. It's just getting used to subtle foot pressure. Think of ollieing a skateboard. Get a little speed built up, simultaneously push down with your back foot and lift your front foot then very quickly get your weight over your front foot again, maintain that; and presto! You are are foiling. There is more to it than that but that's kind of how it works. Ollie up onto foil. Pono- If you were 20 and grew up on Maui with a paddle in your hands you would be able to do much more than you give yourself credit for. But I like your self deprecating humor. I was only suggesting earlier to get foiling sooner than later as you potentially have less time on this earth than others. I'd hate for you to exit without having experienced foiling flight.