Author Topic: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.  (Read 30823 times)

blackeye

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2016, 10:47:35 PM »
I must insist that XPS be considered further. For the design brief - family ruf n tuf, flatwater fun, weight is not much of an issue.

I've never had an issue with epoxy sticking to blue foam. Yes, it was sanded to shape, so perhaps the surface was optimal.

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2016, 08:03:49 AM »
You guys are getting ahead of me!  I will try to get caught up.

cost:  Not a problem, my wife is used to me loosing money on my hairbrain ideas.  If it was just cost, I would probably buy 3  of the "paddle board pairs" from Isle surf and be done.  Be out about $2400 and have 7 boards total.  But that is not what I want.  It does not give the modular ability that I want to play with.  It does not give my 15 yo an out for programming something to use an arduino or raspberry Pi module with bluetooth.  Much of this cost is put on "educational funding" from my budget.  I spend a lot on my kids and teaching them about all kinds of things in life.  So on the cost, not worried about it making sense.  I have used the costco type soft top boards, not really what I am looking for.  For the money, a glass over foam china board is hard to beat.  But even then, you are looking in the $700 range without paddle cost.  I have already cracked mine in a couple spots due to wife trying to crush it in camper slide.  And when I get off the board after paddling, there are indents where I stand.  Just not strong enough for me is my thoughts.

The Formula never made sense and ate cash.  Still does!  But as a 29' overall length lake boat with twin small blocks, it is fun.  If it is cheaper than the Formula, wife will be OK with it.


Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2016, 09:30:23 AM »
Good. Recalibrated. I'm the same way, projects don't have to make sense, they have to be fun, interesting, and potentially yield something useful.

I still wouldn't use expanding foam. It would mostly make a mess. I think you're going to have to step up to some kind of PVC if you're going to finish with something worth having.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:33:19 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2016, 12:25:21 PM »
Molds:

Cost of molds:  I have the tooling gelcoat already.  that was $80 or $90, not sure.  I already own the gelcoat spray gun (one of those earlier costly projects....)  I have a full roll of 1.5 oz 50" matt.  I figure I will probably use about 60 yards of it on these molds, but either way the whole thing cost me like $250.  Resin I have purchased 6 gallons so far.  Not sure if that will do one half of the mold or not.  I am thinking not, but it will give me a pretty good start.  I think it was a couple hundred, will probably need three times that.  Have the paste wax, PVA, brushes, rollers, gloves, aprons, mask....

So $90 + $250 + $200 x3 = $940  So yeah, the molds themselves will cost over $800, but once I have them... 

I also have work space to work on this so not trying to do it in my garage or basement.  Right now it is in the garage, but I just got done modifying an old cart into a layup table.  The cart is 8' long x 32" wide with casters.  Adjustable corner post so i can set it up for the molds once done.  A wood surface below that so glass and resin can be set there during layup.  Right now i have a 13' long deck on it so I can mount the board to it for the construction of the fence.  Big project, I admit.

So I have no problem with the size of it, the material cost, the smell of mold construction, safety equipment (PPE's).

The time, well that is another issue but my sanity has never been normal....

Brian
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2016, 01:14:44 PM »
Core:

The shadow area of this board is about 25.3 sq. ft.  So I figure wil some side rails each side is about 28 sq. ft of area.  So it would have to be pieced together, but one 4 x 8 piece would work for each side.  1/2" is also probably not going to conform the best, the sides can be laid up a bit heavier or cored with something else also.  Some experimentation will have to be done.

I plan on stringers, definitely in the middle 1/2 due to my weight.  maybe some ribs also.  I am planning on getting a CO2 laser cutter for work, so that can be used also for cutting parts.

Test will definitely be done, that will be the telling part.  No idea what will work or what won't work.  At this point, I could lay one up out of two layers of 1.5 oz mat with polyester resin.  At 200% resin the thing would weigh in about 35 pounds with the joint seam.  Hollow and would need some internal structure, but that is a lot of glass and resin.  My current board weighs in at 39 pounds glass over foam.

still, if a 4x8 sheet can be made to work for each half, that drops core prices down to the $200 - $225 range for each board.  Big improvement there.

255 liters is also 9 cubic feet.  So full of 3 pound foam is 27 lbs + some for density changes.  Options might be out there, just don't know yet.  Lots of testing and trials. "experience"!
   
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2016, 01:27:22 PM »
Layup:

This is another area that I could use some ideas.  I get the glass, carbon and kevlar options.  Have worked with them before.  My problem is the finish.  Is anyone using a spray in gelcoat type product?  Or are they using a spray in epoxy paint, then laminating? 

I have never had luck with the epoxy coats, they are more for tooling and very thick.  Polyester sprays nice and works, but adhesion is an issue unless you use a vinylester and then epoxy, but then you are in multiple layers.  just paint them is what I am thinking personally.

Those high end boards popping out all finished and glossy is just awesome.  A lot of work to do that, but awesome.

So, do anyothers have any recommendations on layup, in particular the first coat or post finishing?
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

Bean

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4211
    • View Profile
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2016, 01:46:01 PM »
I had no idea that some board makers were using a gelcoat finish before I saw PB's post 2/22/16 above re. his visit at SIC.  Neat stuff...

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2016, 04:04:10 PM »
Most molded boards have gelcoat. Much less likely to have pinholes. I think SIC and Kai Wa'a use epoxy, but I'll check. Saw Mark Raaphorst today but it was just a driveby. I'll ask him when I see him next what the pros and cons are.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

peterwSUPr

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2016, 04:22:43 AM »
Interesting thread, here are a couple of thoughts.  First of all, use extruded foam at your own risk.  I built quite a few windsurfers from it between the mid 80s and mid 90s.  It's prone to delam, and its not just a matter of roughing up the surface.  Some boards lasted forever, others delamed quickly.  I never got it fully figured out and gave up.  I heard it may be off-gassing that is the problem.  My best unproven theory now was if I got some nice clean fresh stuff it might off-gas more than some sitting on a warehouse for a year or 2.

On a completely different subject, are you sure that every person in your family should be on exactly the same board?  If you have some who are less strong and lighter, they should be on a longer narrower board to keep the same speed.  Don't buy into this shorter boards for the ladies stuff, that was a cruel thing that this sport has done to them.  I for one would invest time in a way to make some good templates and jigs for hotwiring.  A board like the one you are doing can be cut with a hotwire leaving less than an hour of final sanding.  Glassing  is pretty easy, then its just a matter of sorting out a quick easy way for final finishing.  It's the final finishing where the mold has the advantage.

Peter

blackeye

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 02:26:40 PM »
My best unproven theory now was if I got some nice clean fresh stuff it might off-gas more than some sitting on a warehouse for a year or 2.

Ah, interesting. My good experience with XPS is with using years old bits cast off from construction projects. I now have a fresh sheet so I'll beware. Mind you, at the pace of my projects, that foam will be vintage as well.

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2016, 09:49:13 AM »
Busy busy busy!  Finally making some progress again.  So as mentioned, I have a 13' x 39" or so deck on my future mold holding and laminating table.  I set the board upside down on this and bought a 4x8 piece of 1/4" board.  I cut two 9" strips off of the side and then cut two blocks off the remaining piece (9" x 8' times two, 2 pieces 30" x 31" for the nose and tail).  I set the pieces under the board and traced the shadow plan of the board onto them.  These I cut out and primed them up to seal any grain for the mold.

I put four 2x4 blocks under the board to stabilize it and glued them down to the table.  Once dry, I added some clay to the top of the blocks and carefully pressed the board down into it.  It is now stable on the table and secure.  I went around the board and with a 90 angle, found the widest point all the way around and marked it on the plug.  From there it was easy to measure the height off the table and cut blocks 1/4" shorter to glue all around the plug.  This gave me a nice support for the fence material that I made earlier.  Air nailer and they were quickly tacked down and secure.  The blocks must be pretty close together, because any flexing of the fence material will destroy the finish joint of the clay to the fence and board.

diagrams below for those of you who have not done this before.  If you have, old information, nothing new here.
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2016, 09:55:33 AM »
pictures of the fence construction as described in previous post.

The joint between the fence and the plug has to be filled in.  For this I use a modeling clay.  I forget the type, but it is what they call a medium to soft clay.  That is in modeling terms, so it is NOT soft like play-do.  It is actually pretty firm, but when you warm it up some it becomes more workable and then cools back down afterward and firms up.  I started on the joint at the front and this is where the work is, getting this line nice.  You have to pack it full and then carve it away as you go.  Carve too much at once, and you end up pulling some of the surface layer up.  So you have to work it in closer and closer as you go.  I liken it to burnishing it at the end.  The last picture is ready for some final cleanup to get the residual clay off the plug and then polish out the joint.  Once it cools off enough, I will be able to put more wax on and carefully buff it out.  This line is a very critical and time consuming part in making a mold for a butt joint construction!!!  It must be perfect!
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2016, 09:58:12 AM »
This wraps it up for awhile.  i have my work cut out for me in my spare time to finish the joint, put some more wax on, add keys to the flange and apply the parting agent greenseal.  Will probably take me a bit....
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2016, 08:19:15 PM »
So I spent some time working the clay into the seam, burnishing it out the best I could and then apply another 4 coats of wax on the completed plug.  Once satisfied, I sprayed on a few coats of PVA release and let dry.  A check and touch up any thing that is wrong, and it is ready for gelcoat!  The moment of truth.  Oh, also added a few keys to the fence area to help locate the mold halves.

Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: My 12'6" splash mold process.... here we go.
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2016, 08:33:18 PM »
So, having made it this far, my recommendation to anyone considering doing this is....   DON'T!!!!  This is not the largest mold by far that I have ever done, but it is the largest I have ever done with my own money and alone!  I am not getting any younger, this is a pretty good project.  so unless you have done things like this and know what you are getting into, forget it.  It has been a long time since I built a mold this large, probably 20 years thinking back.  In some ways, this is easier due to the shape and lack of egg crate, but mid 40's and working alone, it is daunting.

But I got the gelcoat applied today and the first coat of glass on it.  Note: once you start with the gel, you are on a pretty strict timeline for getting the first coat of glass on.  Once that first coat it done, you are more flexible.  But once that gel is applied, you have to glass it that day.

Working alone, not sure if I will do two coats tomorrow after work or just work on getting one more good layer of 1.5oz mat down.  Then the rest become easier.  First layer is the hardest due to most of the edges are torn so you do not get bubbles next to your gelcoat surface.  Lots of smaller pieces with torn edges!  All 1.5oz mat. 

Anyways, it looks like it is turning out pretty good so far.  Gel went down fine, didn't see any wrinkles form when I glassed it.  I didn't end up spraying it due to where I had it, I ended up doing a roll and tip procedure instead.  I used a 6" long x 1" cloth roller and applied several layers until I got the the 20-25 mils thickness.  Took about 4 pints of gelcoat.  Need to weigh it to see if I need more tooling gel for the other side.  I rolled it about 4 times total building up the thickness, then went over it real light with the brush where needed.  I hope it turns out.

Room was at 72 to 74 degrees, used 2% MEKP and mixed up 1 pint at a time. 
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

 


* Recent Posts

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal