Author Topic: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal  (Read 8406 times)

55NSup

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7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« on: April 13, 2015, 02:20:52 PM »
Thinking of trying to knock this out over summer. Took some ideas from the threads.
7-0 x 30 x 4,2"
Copying the Naish outline somewhat- and looking to get volume like their medium Raptor.
Single concave nose going to V tail. Chined rail.

the fin boxes look pretty toed in- any tips for this ? will use on super crappy windwaves.

Have a 7-5 design also. I weigh 78kgs without wetsuit. paddle a 9-2 Fanatic Allwave without any balance issue- its a tank.

Thoughts welcome-

Biggreen

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 07:13:14 PM »
Do it! Only way you'll know! I'm about to start something relatively similar 7'4"x 26.5".  I'm the same weight as you and have been riding 3.75" thickness and like it fine, and could go thinner.  More depends on your rail thickness, IMO. On something that short I wouldn't think you'd need a whole lot of toe in your fins.  You should be plenty maneuverable by virtue of your length. My 7'4" with that shape only has 1/8" in the fronts and 1/16" in the rears and is very loose, and all I have is crappy wind waves. It's speed you want to keep.

Disclaimer:  I know F-all about what I'm talking about. That said, I'm not worried about turning out a dud on my way to zeroing in on what I like. And I'm closing in on it.

Make sure and post pics!

anonsurfer

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 08:36:59 PM »
Looks like a super fun board to me.  If you want instant speed maybe go with a rolled belly hull instead of concave.
Home Break: Doheny
Tic Tac v3 (Hoglet): 6' 6" x 23" x 3.6" x 67L
Omni: 6' 9" x 23" x 3.75" x 68L
Tic Tac (OG): 7' 0" x 22.75" x 3.5" x 70L
In The Pink (Incoming): 8' 0" x 22.9" x 3.25" x 70L

Blackproject Surge S77 (Soft Flex Shaft, T-Grip, +0" OH)

55NSup

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2015, 04:46:30 AM »
Anonsurfer,

Interesting- could you explain the  the thinking behind doing a convex nose compared to concave ?
Do you mean concave will push water initally then POP onto plane ? And a convex nose will have less initial resistance and therfore get going intially with less resistence?
My waves are short period and gutless- so perhaps thats a better approach.

I´ll adjust the toe in. My feeling its too much

( i dont know WTF im talking about either ! )

anonsurfer

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2015, 05:12:29 PM »
Exactly, the rolled hull will get the board up to speed fast and speed is very important in small gutless surf.  Take a look at the design of the Infinity Phoenix for ideas you may want to integrate into your design.

Home Break: Doheny
Tic Tac v3 (Hoglet): 6' 6" x 23" x 3.6" x 67L
Omni: 6' 9" x 23" x 3.75" x 68L
Tic Tac (OG): 7' 0" x 22.75" x 3.5" x 70L
In The Pink (Incoming): 8' 0" x 22.9" x 3.25" x 70L

Blackproject Surge S77 (Soft Flex Shaft, T-Grip, +0" OH)

55NSup

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 08:26:03 AM »
thanks. That Phoenix is  the ticket.

Well if i lived in So Cal  I´d just drive over to Infinity, talk it over with those guys and get one of those Phoenix boards built for me.
The Fanatic waveskate thingy costs 2200 USD here. I suspect the Naish Raptor will too.

And if i had a trip planned to LA to visit family I´d start researching how much it costs to get it on a plane. My sister is coming for a visit but i dont think she wants to lug it here via trip to Loire valley in France. :o

My plan was to make the rails pretty thin. More like the Naish Nalu 10-6 that i rode, compared to the blocky rails on my 9-2 fanatic, which seemed much slower on the wave than the Naish. The rails on the Naish were like 50% of the Fanatic volume. Both those boards have same 160L volume.

anyone else want to chime in on this question of having concave vs convex on board for gutless small waves ?

BTW- there was a video of a guy on a Phoenix in " mushy waves" and those waves i dream for...

surfcowboy

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2015, 08:38:47 PM »
At the Surfcraft show that delved deep into planing hulls and Simmons theory a lot of the boards seemed to have hull entry to flat bottoms. I think we equate concave with speed and from what I'm finding that's not really the case.

Flat is fast according to a lot of folks. Sounds like you need to get moving quickly and keep it planing. Remember that folks on big waves have a lot of push and need control. Small waves don't drive like that. But as was said, this is all third hand and I have very little real world knowledge.

I'd love to hear what folks know about concave and what it does or doesn't do.

magentawave

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 09:53:41 PM »
Are you able to sell the boards you build for at least what they cost you to build? What is your total cost to build a board including everything?

That said, I'm not worried about turning out a dud on my way to zeroing in on what I like.
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

magentawave

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 11:06:58 PM »
That board looks really cool! Yeah, do it and keep us updated, please.

My knowledge of concave is based on lots of surfboards and sailboards (for surfing) I've ridden over the years in everything from mushy knee high beach break slop to 20' faces in Hawaii. DISCLAIMER: My opinion is totally based on seat of the pants instead of a technical understanding of hydrodynamics - so feel free to take it with a grain of salt!  ;)

First, rocker...

Rocker is a really big deal. Flat rocker is FAST because the board will plane easier than a board with lots of rocker. A flatter rocker will be stiffer when turning and the chances of spectacular over the handle bar wipeouts during late takeoffs are greatly increased. Flat rockers don't fit in the tube as well as a curvy rocker.

Highly rockered boards are great for steep takeoffs, easier turning, and can be great nose riders. Big wave guns always have lots of rocker as well as longboard noseriders. The downside is that higher rocker can be slow in small waves cuz it's pushing water. It will be slower when paddling too.

Concave...

Concave flattens out the rocker and therefore is faster down the line than a highly rockered board without concave. When you put the board on the rail to turn then you start working with the curve of the rocker. Notice how a lot of these super wide tail tomo style sups have a channel (and some with V) out the tail like the Deep Ocean Minions, JP Slates, and Hypernut that gets progressively deeper as it goes out the tail? (Same goes for the quad concaves on the Tomo Evo.) I haven't ridden a board with those radical concaves or channels in the tail yet, but what I've been told is that not only does the channel or concave stream the water out the tail faster - thus making the board faster in small surf (makes sense, eh?), but the fact that the channels/concaves get steeper out the back also serves to behave like lots of tail kick which makes a normally hard to turn super wide tail board come around faster when you want to crank a quick pivoty turn off the tail. Plus, the deep channels/concaves out the tail behave like tail kick and will save your arse during late takeoffs. The reason these boards with progressively deeper channels and concaves streaming out the tail are so fast in smaller gutless surf, verses most boards with lots of tail kick, is because down the line the board gets up and rides on that flat 2" to 3" wide panel that's at the rail on each side of the channel/concave.

How those progressively deeper channels and concaves out the tail would work in bigger more powerful surf is something I just don't know. Perhaps it would make the board way too squirrely?? I dunno, but it sure seems to make sense for the normal waves that most of us ride.


anyone else want to chime in on this question of having concave vs convex on board for gutless small waves ?
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

magentawave

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 11:14:45 PM »
You were wondering about whether to toe the fins in...  JP makes their surf sups with no toe and no cant and I think they are the only manufacturer to do that. Check out the video on Vimeo by Piros where he explains this. The board will be wicked fast without toeing the fins, but it'll be tighter - but maybe tighter is irrelevant on 7' or sub 7' sups? I would really like to know if anyone is experimenting with with no toe and no cant on the little sups.
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

Dwight (DW)

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 04:41:51 AM »
Concave flattens out the rocker....

Only if shaped that way. And many backyards do just that. Not a very precise way of going about it.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 04:50:01 AM »
At the Surfcraft show that delved deep into planing hulls and Simmons theory a lot of the boards seemed to have hull entry to flat bottoms. I think we equate concave with speed and from what I'm finding that's not really the case.

Flat is fast according to a lot of folks. Sounds like you need to get moving quickly and keep it planing. Remember that folks on big waves have a lot of push and need control. Small waves don't drive like that. But as was said, this is all third hand and I have very little real world knowledge.

I'd love to hear what folks know about concave and what it does or doesn't do.

Agreed. My testing supports this. When you consider we spend as much time at sub planing speeds while surfing, as we do at planing speed, it is a really important point. SUPs can benefit from the skate-like feel of flat and avoid the tracking of a concave.

To clarify for others, we are talking about flat as opposed to concave with regards to bottom contours (side to side). It has nothing to do with rocker.

newton333

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2015, 06:00:19 AM »
looks sick.. do it

55NSup

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2015, 09:59:44 AM »
Are you able to sell the boards you build for at least what they cost you to build? What is your total cost to build a board including everything?

That said, I'm not worried about turning out a dud on my way to zeroing in on what I like.

Well a board like this will have a BOM ( bill of materials) :
Eps blank from building supply: 50€
Carbon strip each side: 10€
Glasfiber 2layer  bottom 3 layer deck: 25€
Epoxy: 60€ ( 5 kg kit, but won't use it all)
Depending on how I finish it: say 30€. ( easiest to paint it with pu paint) 
Consumables like cups, gloves, brushes, roller,  abrasives: 50€
Total 245€
If I vbag it I'll have some more consumption.  Say 30-50€
Ok round up to 300€ Total.

I don't have any for sale and I have not tried. My cosmetic level is pretty far away from commercial quality,  it is difficult,  and time consuming. 

Have not tried hotcoating yet. Will do small experiment on a kiteboard I'm finishing.

55NSup

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Re: 7-0 Lunch Tray proposal
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2015, 10:06:05 AM »
Interesting feedback. I've seen the Sim (L41 and  Infinity Phoenix)  type boards too and wonder if that's better outline.

Conclusion I'm hearing here:
Hull,  rounded convex nose for speed
Flat bottom
Flat tail with rocker or :
concave tail with flatter rocker at rail( rocker at centerline created by concave) 
Consider no toe in on fins.

I definitely have gutless waves here. And if I travel I'll be going to mild surf...

 


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